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Sabine Hossenfelder: Is Dark Matter Real? 

Astrofísica UC
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Dr. Hossenfelder is a German theoretical physicist, whose research focuses on the phenomenology of quantum gravity and superfluid dark matter. She studies the role of Lorentz variance and locality, which would be altered in the discovery of quantum gravity, a topic that she has been trying to find experimental evidence for. She is the author of ‘Lost in Math: How Beauty Leads Physics Astray’, which explores the concept of elegance in fundamental physics and cosmology. She has a very active RU-vid channel dedicated to communicating current science news and scientific methods to the public, and since 2006, she has been writing the popular weblog ‘Backreaction’.
08:11 - beginning of the presentation
01:00:52 - beginning of the Q&A
Spanish version: TBD
The panel of the 'Golden Webinar' consisted of:
• Sabine Hossenfelder - speaker
• Patricio Gonzalez (patricio.gonzalez.interprete@gmail.com) - Interpreter
• Thomas H. Puzia - Co-host, Faculty at the Institute of Astrophysics (IA)
• Elizabeth Artur de la Villarmois - Co-host, Postdoctoral Fellow at IA
• Ricardo Acevedo - Q&A manager, Outreach Team IA
• Simón Ángel - Q&A manager, Outreach Team IA
• Demetra De Cicco - Postdoctoral Fellow at IA
• Paula Ronco - Postdoctoral Fellow at IA
• Tuila Ziliotto - Graduate Student at IA
• Emanuela Pompei - Astronomer at the European Southern Observatory at La Silla
• Federico Lelli - Research staff at Arcetri Astrophysical Observatory
• Bryan Miller - Astronomer at the Gemini South Observatory
• Stacy McGaugh - Professor of Astronomy at the Case Western Reserve University
• Hans Zinnecker - Astronomer emeritus, ex-deputy director of the SOFIA Science Center at NASA Ames
• Pavel Kroupa - Professor of Astrophysics at the University of Bonn and the Charles University in Prague
• William Vanderburgh - Professor of Philosophy at California State University at San Bernardino
• Paul Hoyningen-Huene - Professor of Philosophy, Institute of Philosophy at the Leibniz Universität Hannover, Germany, and Lecturer at the Department of Economics at Universität Zürich
The 'Golden Webinars in Astrophysics' series seeks to bring forefront research in astronomy, astrophysics, and cosmology to the public in the English and Spanish language. To see the full schedule of Golden Webinars series visit: tiny.cc/GWA-sch...
#goldenwebinars #IAPUC #AstroUC #darkmatter #gravity #science #knowledge #galaxies #astronomy #astrophysics #universe
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20 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 763   
@gavbrown01
@gavbrown01 3 года назад
I used to not understand this stuff, but after listening to Sabine, I feel like I don't understand it at a much higher level
@fermansmith6042
@fermansmith6042 3 года назад
Amen brother!
@Cashman9111
@Cashman9111 3 года назад
yep, that's how you learn physics
@1itim
@1itim 3 года назад
You’ve captured exactly how I feel!
@frankdimeglio8216
@frankdimeglio8216 3 года назад
Hossenfelder is not a genius. She is political. She is lying about physics. Here's the proof. THE ULTIMATE (AND CLEAR) MATHEMATICAL UNIFICATION (AND PROOF) REGARDING PHYSICS/PHYSICAL EXPERIENCE IS NOW DEMONSTRATED, AS E=MC2 IS F=MA: TIME DILATION ultimately proves (ON BALANCE) that E=mc2 IS F=ma, as ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE. (Importantly, balance and completeness go hand in hand.) The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. NOW, A PHOTON may be placed at the center of WHAT IS THE SUN (as A POINT, of course); AS the reduction of SPACE is offset by (or BALANCED with) the speed of light (c); AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Indeed, ultimately and truly, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS E=MC2 IS F=MA; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Very importantly, outer "space" involves full inertia; AND it is fully invisible AND black. GREAT. Accordingly, INSTANTANEITY is thus FUNDAMENTAL to what is the FULL and proper UNDERSTANDING of physics/PHYSICAL EXPERIENCE; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. It ALL CLEARLY makes perfect sense. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. E=mc2 IS F=ma. ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. E=MC2 IS F=MA. GREAT !!! Gravity AND ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy are linked AND BALANCED opposites, AS E=mc2 is F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Consider THE MAN who is standing on what is THE EARTH/GROUND. Touch AND feeling BLEND, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. GRAVITATIONAL force/ENERGY IS proportional to (or BALANCED with/as) inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Accordingly, the rotation of WHAT IS THE MOON matches it's revolution. Great. MOREOVER, a given PLANET (including what is THE EARTH) then sweeps out equal areas in equal times consistent WITH/AS F=ma, E=mc2, AND what is perpetual motion; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. INSTANTANEITY is thus FUNDAMENTAL to what is the FULL and proper UNDERSTANDING of physics/physical experience, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE. Stellar clustering ALSO proves ON BALANCE that E=mc2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Objects (including WHAT IS the falling MAN) fall at the SAME RATE (neglecting air resistance, of course), as E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. "Mass"/energy is gravity. ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. E=mc2 IS F=ma. THE DOME of a PERSON'S EYE is ALSO VISIBLE. (Notice the flat AND black space of what is THE EYE.) The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. The sky is blue, AND the Earth is blue. THE EARTH/ground AND THE SUN are E=mc2 AND F=ma IN BALANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS UNIVERSALLY PROVEN TO BE GRAVITY in what is a mathematically unified fashion. E=mc2 IS F=ma. The middle distance in/of/AS SPACE AND the full distance in/of/AS SPACE are NECESSARILY linked AND balanced. MAGNIFICENT !!!!!!!!!! INSTANTANEITY IS thus FUNDAMENTAL to what is the FULL and proper UNDERSTANDING of physics/physical experience, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. It is ALL CLEARLY proven. Again, the stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. GREAT. Energy has/involves GRAVITY, AND ENERGY has/involves inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE. GRAVITATIONAL force/ENERGY IS proportional to (or BALANCED with/as) inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. It is all CLEARLY proven !!!!!!!! TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. GREAT !!!!!!!! BALANCE and completeness go hand in hand. By Frank DiMeglio
@matusmotlo3854
@matusmotlo3854 3 года назад
@@frankdimeglio8216 Love your narcissism. By Matúš Motlo.
@sydneymorey6059
@sydneymorey6059 Год назад
This lady Sabine, must be one of most transparent scientists on this subject I have ever listened too. How lucky her students are. Cheers SBM.
@makingnoises2327
@makingnoises2327 2 года назад
im so glad that there are scientists like Sabine working on the biggest problems in cosmology who don't fall into the dogmatic and tribalistic ideological straights that have come to dominate the field - as we strain our minds to encompass truths they never evolved to engage with, it's imperative that we allow ourselves to be guided by data and open to the unexpected, rather than fixating on maintaining aesthetic or hierarchical systems we've imposed on the universe.
@DannerPlace
@DannerPlace Год назад
"the biggest problems in cosmology". LOL, there aren't any problems in cosmology, not even little tiny ones.
@hp127
@hp127 3 года назад
Wonderful to see and hear Sabine here. Thanks.
@rogeriopenna9014
@rogeriopenna9014 3 года назад
1:18:00 Sabine: "it's kindergarden math" Me: oh damn, that hurt.
@TheNguyenGiap
@TheNguyenGiap 3 года назад
If that was true why don´t we have a theory that explains the whole thing instead of just 4%.?
@TheStephaneAdam
@TheStephaneAdam 3 года назад
@@TheNguyenGiap Why don't you try?
@TheNguyenGiap
@TheNguyenGiap 3 года назад
@@TheStephaneAdam I am a bricklayer and though i use math in my daily i would never never be so obnoxious about the construct of the universe. Instead of giving me that moronic answer, you should rather spend your time and energy on asking the scientists why they are studying "dark matter" (another term for stuff we don´t know about) for 50 years they have not produced a single falsifiable experiment and they receive millions every year and dark matter is in the mainstream of science and therefore ok to study. (despite my previously stated facts) but ANY kind of advancement in the real understanding of the universe is not gonna happen with our attitude towards having a real conversation with nature(read the universe) if we think we already know all of it
@yoshikhurazi1769
@yoshikhurazi1769 3 года назад
@@TheNguyenGiap I'm not sure what exactly you are expecting. They have a gravitational model that seems to be precise for matter that we can observe but then when they observe the movement of galaxies in the wider universe, they observe behaviour that indicates that there seems to be a huge amount of unseen matter. "dark matter" is just a label for this mystery. You cannot by nature have a falsifiable experiment for such a nebulous concept, you can only have experiments that falsify particular dark matter hypothethical particles, which is what is happening. It's why certain candidates such as WIMPs (Weakly Interacting Massive Particles) are falling out of favour as certain experiments were conducted that were expected to produce evidence for them and failed to - exactly what you seem to want. Trying to paint it as scientists thinking they "already know all of it" is pretty disingenuous. It's precisely the fact that they do not know all of it that they are running these experiments in the first place! Maybe they're all wrong and matter or movement simply behaves differently at sufficiently large distances which is the opinion of MOND (Modified Newtonion dynamics) advocates but there are a number of observations and problems that throw doubt into this. There are also a number of potential experiments that can be done to test it.
@thenatureofnurture6336
@thenatureofnurture6336 3 года назад
@@yoshikhurazi1769 It's not "matter we can observe" per se. It's only the matter as yet observed. Far far too few people truly know the philosophy of science. We are inundated with technical savants who don't properly ask what it is they don't know.
@pradyumna8725
@pradyumna8725 3 года назад
This is finally available again! Missed the first half when it was live
@kenczepelka6314
@kenczepelka6314 3 года назад
Sabine is one of the most clear thinking scientists alive. Her outside the box thinking is like a blast of fresh air to me.
@noodlerancid
@noodlerancid 3 года назад
There are many scientists, with the outside the box thinking
@dustinirwin1
@dustinirwin1 3 года назад
@@noodlerancid i think it's more about Sabine being grounded in actual science and avoid the disillusion of consensus or fringe, unsupported theories.
@fcalin21
@fcalin21 3 года назад
dr. Eric Lerner is better.
@bobinmaine1
@bobinmaine1 3 года назад
Whoa whoa, Germans do NOT go outside the box. The box is there for a reason!!!!! 😂😂 I love how utterly, stereotypically German Sabine is🥰
@paulmichaelfreedman8334
@paulmichaelfreedman8334 3 года назад
@@bobinmaine1 Scientists who think too far out of the box are considered pseudo-scientists because they tend to start being confirmation-biased. This is a bad thing. A good scientists never ever ignores significant and verified data, unless he has evidence/proof that that data may be incorrect. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
@Pyrophoro
@Pyrophoro 3 года назад
Thank you all. Much appreciated!
3 года назад
Our pleasure!
@alexfocus3474
@alexfocus3474 3 года назад
Sabine is always a pleasure to listen to, even when I don't understand her math.
@nwogamesalert
@nwogamesalert 3 года назад
I think dark matter resides entirely in grey matter.
@chuckschillingvideos
@chuckschillingvideos 3 года назад
I see what you did there!
@sidewinder814u
@sidewinder814u 3 года назад
Dark matter and Grey matter are both ruled by the Electro-Magnetics of the Univers...in my honest opinion.
@spaceinyourface
@spaceinyourface 3 года назад
Over the last 6 years I've built up a selection of physicists I regularly follow , all the big names that you've all probably heard of, & Sabine, along side Dr Brian Keeting are fairly new additions to my selection. Allways a pleasure & privilege to listen too them all.
@h.i.5280
@h.i.5280 3 года назад
Same here!
@emeraldeyes9565
@emeraldeyes9565 3 года назад
I don't find Keating very impressive - in too much of a rush to win a Nobel prize than to check his results before publication.
@spaceinyourface
@spaceinyourface 3 года назад
@@emeraldeyes9565 OK..thanks for the reply..I wouldn't say that. He's only human, & he's learning from his mistakes.
@riadhalrabeh3783
@riadhalrabeh3783 Год назад
Great seminar. thank you all. If one is interested; a0(units of acceleration)= c^2 / radius of universe(approx).. while Lamda has units of 1/m^2 , and is approximately= 1/square of the radius of the universe.
@eljcd
@eljcd 3 года назад
Thank you for this lectures and to give voice to versions differents to the mainstream. Is so important that there exist diversity in science!
@marcgottlieb9579
@marcgottlieb9579 3 года назад
They speak about Dark Matter as if is solidy a known fact but every attempt to prove it up until the current day in reality has been a major disappointment...
@EnglishMike
@EnglishMike 3 года назад
Sabine Hossenfelder's version isn't outside the mainstream. It is currently the minority viewpoint, but it would be a mistake to think that she's giving any encouragement to the many pseudoscientific claims of "alternate cosmologies" that are out there. She is still very much a supporter of mainstream science. This is just one of many normal debates that are going on within the scientific community all the time.
@n-da-bunka2650
@n-da-bunka2650 3 года назад
@8Truth Seeking Unable to unpack due to the wingnut operating the distribution system...LOL
@frankdimeglio8216
@frankdimeglio8216 2 года назад
Hossenfelder is political. She is maximum money making agenda "physics". She is extremely slick. It's OBVIOUSLY all about full spectrum CONTROL. She's political. They're in. They get PAID. You're out. You PAY. SHE'S LYING ABOUT PHYSICS. HERE IS THE CLEAR PROOF. THE THEORETICAL, TOP DOWN, CLEAR, SIMPLE, AND BALANCED MATHEMATICAL PROOF OF THE FACT THAT E=MC2 IS F=MA OF NECESSITY: Gravity AND ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy are linked AND BALANCED opposites, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Very importantly, outer “space” involves full inertia; AND it is fully invisible AND black. NOW, carefully consider what is THE SUN; AS it does (and it must) exist in both time AND SPACE. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky !!! E=MC2 is CLEARLY F=ma ON BALANCE. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. "Mass"/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. E=MC2 IS F=ma. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE, AS gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy !!!! Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma ON BALANCE; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. "Mass"/ENERGY involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE consistent WITH/AS what is BALANCED electromagnetic/gravitational force/ENERGY, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity !!! It all CLEARLY makes perfect sense. Carefully consider what is THE MAN who IS standing on what is THE EARTH/ground. Touch AND feeling BLEND, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity; AS E=MC2 IS F=MA ON BALANCE !!! (Energy has/involves GRAVITY, AND ENERGY has/involves inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE.) Objects fall at the SAME RATE (neglecting air resistance, of course), AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity; AS E=MC2 IS F=MA ON BALANCE !!! ACCORDINGLY, the rotation of WHAT IS THE MOON matches it's revolution. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. The sky is blue, AND THE EARTH is ALSO BLUE !!! Carefully consider what is THE EYE. GREAT. GRAVITATIONAL force/ENERGY IS proportional to (or BALANCED with/as) inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma IN BALANCE; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma IN BALANCE; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. BALANCE AND completeness go hand in hand. TIME DILATION ULTIMATELY proves ON BALANCE that E=MC2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. This CLEARLY explains the cosmological redshift AND the black hole(s) !!! AGAIN, gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. E=MC2 is CLEARLY F=ma IN BALANCE !!!! Think QUANTUM GRAVITY !!! It all CLEARLY makes perfect sense ON BALANCE !!!! Great. By Frank DiMeglio
@djelalhassan7631
@djelalhassan7631 2 года назад
@@n-da-bunka2650 Yeah, pure nonsense
@user-wu8yq1rb9t
@user-wu8yq1rb9t 3 года назад
Sabine is great
@dougmarkham
@dougmarkham 3 года назад
Awesome idea for a video: a summary of everything important that physics can't directly measure.
3 года назад
Great point!
@stephendatgmail
@stephendatgmail 3 года назад
MOND: -Consistent with MOST observed rotation curves if you tune it right, but never all. -Makes INACCURATE predictions about observed gravitational lensing. -Makes in INACCURATE predictions about the Bullet Cluster. -FAILS to predict features of the CMB. -Requires an overthrow of General Relativity, one of the best-tested and most accurate theories in existence. -In short, kind of consistent with one type of observation, but inconsistent with many others. Dark Matter: - Consistent with ALL observed rotation curves. -Makes ACCURATE predictions about observed gravitational lensing. -Makes ACCURATE predictions about the Bullet Cluster. -SUCCEEDS in predicting features of the CMB. -Requires the existence of an electrically neutral, gravitationally interactive, yet-undiscovered particle that fits nicely into several minimal expansions to the Standard Model. - In short, literally no observation has ever been made inconsistent with this idea. Makes accurate predictions. The only thing missing is a particle discovery. This case is closed to anyone more interested in truth-seeking than building a following among non-scientists on social media who will listen to anyone telling them something "mainstream" is less than credible or that the so-called experts got it wrong.
@DegreesOfThree
@DegreesOfThree 3 года назад
Relativity has already been overthrown. Gravitational lensing is just refraction. Light has never been shown to bend in plasma-free space.
@ianw_xvi8784
@ianw_xvi8784 3 года назад
@@DegreesOfThree _"Relativity has already been overthrown."_ Dumb comment. No, it hasn't. That would be headline news. Care to link us to the paper?
@DegreesOfThree
@DegreesOfThree 3 года назад
@@ianw_xvi8784 Links are automatically deleted, but the title of the relevant paper is, 'Gravitational Deflection of Light and Radio Waves Exhibit Impact Parameter Dependency from Solar Plasma Limb to Plasma-Free Space above' by Dr. Dowdye
@ianw_xvi8784
@ianw_xvi8784 3 года назад
@@DegreesOfThree _"but the title of the relevant paper is, 'Gravitational Deflection of Light and Radio Waves Exhibit Impact Parameter Dependency from Solar Plasma Limb to Plasma-Free Space above' by Dr. Dowdye"_ Is not a paper. It is a meeting abstract, and is complete nonsense. One only has to look at the sentence that says, "The light bending rule of General Relativity suggests that gravitational light bending effects should occur in a plasma-free space as well as in the empty plasma-free vacuum space far above the limb of the sun." to see how deluded this crank was. There is no such thing as plasma-free space.
@stephendatgmail
@stephendatgmail 3 года назад
@@DegreesOfThree 1. Refracted light is separated out by wavelength. Observed lensing is not. 2. Gravitational lensing is observed where foreground galaxy clusters distort the light of background galaxies into arcs appearing to surround the cluster. GR predicts and accurately models this. 99.999999999999999999999999 percent of the light from the background galaxy has passed through......wait for it....... oh, empty space, duh. 3. The 0.00000000000000001 percent interacting with any type of plasma would scatter in all directions (assuming plasma actually refracts light in this manner., I really don't know and kind of doubt it), and any reaching earth would appear to come from the plasma itself, not from arcs surrounding the cluster. 4. So your refraction idea would need a magical, narrow ring of plasma, billions of lights years around, encircling galaxy clusters, and oriented to Earth in a manner to reproduce the predictions of GR and trick all the earthlings billions of light years away. Oh, and it has to refract all wavelengths of light the same amount AND somehow not scatter any light away. Pseudoscience and other forms of misinformation are ever more difficult to cut through, and ever more dangerous. Seek truth, even if it's boring and mundane!
@Thomas-gk42
@Thomas-gk42 3 месяца назад
The research of Sabine´s group about superfluid DM has brought up a lot of new impulses how to think about the phenomenon, still important in 2024. Sabine is a great scientist and communicator and a wonderful human being. Thanks a lot for uploading this!
@HarryNicNicholas
@HarryNicNicholas 3 года назад
brilliant to be given access. "well thanks everyone for not coming today, it's great to see you".
@tiemiahu9947
@tiemiahu9947 Год назад
Yeah awesome, another really good collabarational discussion of the great scientists of our time, good stuff!!...
@antoniomonteiro1203
@antoniomonteiro1203 3 года назад
Sabine: "I'm not good in interpretation... I'm 'Lost in Math'..." :D
@hoodedferret
@hoodedferret 2 года назад
Fantastic talk, Sabine is a natural communicator, and the Q&A after the talk was perfect. Sabine's honest personality really shines through here. I also enjoyed the irony that Sabine, as someone who has created many videos and a book criticizing the addiction to "beautiful" maths, ended up stumbling upon a plausible base model that is utterly simple and beautiful in contrast to the more complicated models she described.
@Thomas-gk42
@Thomas-gk42 Год назад
Agree, just finished her new book, Existential Physics, nice to read
@lengould9262
@lengould9262 3 года назад
Happy to see the work of Verlinde acknowledged.
@dancooper8551
@dancooper8551 3 года назад
Excellent presentation! Need to watch again to work through those equations.
@maynardtrendle820
@maynardtrendle820 3 года назад
Sabine is a wonderful educator I think.☄️
@RonLWilson
@RonLWilson 3 года назад
I only understood about half of this. But wow! Given the complexity of the subject that seems pretty amazing that I was able to understand that much which I am attributing largely to the excellent clarity you bring to this subject.! Great presentation! p.s. albeit as I got further into this I can't say I was understanding half but maybe a tenth of it, but even that I think is better than being totally lost.
3 года назад
Glad it was helpful!
@thenatureofnurture6336
@thenatureofnurture6336 3 года назад
@ Why is there a US and UK flag icon on the title page? What is that signifying?
3 года назад
@@thenatureofnurture6336 It's the language of the audio track. We also have Spanish versions with the Spanish flag on the thumbnail for easy identification.
@thenatureofnurture6336
@thenatureofnurture6336 3 года назад
@ Oh, wow. You got a translation dubbed into Spanish? Not just subtitles - very cool.
@frankdimeglio8216
@frankdimeglio8216 2 года назад
@ UNDERSTANDING TIME (AND TIME DILATION) PURSUANT TO THE BALANCED, THEORETICAL, AND CLEAR MATHEMATICAL PROOF THAT E=MC2 IS F=MA (OF NECESSITY): Stellar clustering ALSO proves ON BALANCE that ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity, AS E=MC2 is CLEARLY F=ma ON BALANCE. Gravity is ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy, AS E=MC2 is clearly F=ma IN BALANCE !!! This explains the fourth dimension AND the term c4 (from Einstein's field equations). Gravity AND ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy are linked AND BALANCED opposites, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma ON BALANCE; AS the stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. GRAVITATIONAL force/ENERGY IS proportional to (or BALANCED with/as) inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma ON BALANCE; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. TIME dilation ULTIMATELY proves ON BALANCE that E=MC2 IS F=ma IN BALANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity; AS gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE. Accordingly, the rotation of WHAT IS THE MOON matches it's revolution. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. So, it makes perfect sense that the planets will move away from WHAT IS THE SUN very, very, very SLIGHTLY. Carefully consider what is THE EYE ON BALANCE !!! (Very importantly, outer "space" involves full inertia; AND it is fully invisible AND black.) E=MC2 is CLEARLY proven to be F=ma ON BALANCE. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. (Gravity is ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy ON BALANCE, AS E=MC2 IS clearly F=ma IN BALANCE.) Carefully consider what is the speed of light (c). A PHOTON may be placed at the center of what is THE SUN (as A POINT, of course), AS the reduction of SPACE is offset by (or BALANCED with) the speed of light (c); AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity; AS E=MC2 IS clearly F=ma ON BALANCE. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky !!! Indeed, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS E=MC2 is CLEARLY F=ma ON BALANCE; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Carefully consider what is THE EARTH/ground AND what is THE EYE ON BALANCE !!! The sky is BLUE, AND THE EARTH is ALSO BLUE. THE EARTH is a BALANCED MIDDLE DISTANCE form in relation to the speed of light (c) AND what is THE SUN (AS what is a linked AND BALANCED opposite) pursuant to the universal (and CLEAR) fact that E=MC2 IS F=ma ON BALANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. Gravity is ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. E=MC2 IS clearly proven to be F=ma ON BALANCE. Carefully consider what is THE EARTH/ground !!! Great. "Mass"/ENERGY involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE consistent with/as what is BALANCED electromagnetic/gravitational force/ENERGY, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma IN BALANCE; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Accordingly, objects (AND WHAT IS the falling MAN) fall at the SAME RATE (neglecting air resistance, of course); AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity; AS E=MC2 is CLEARLY proven to be F=ma ON BALANCE. Gravity is clearly ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy, AS E=MC2 is clearly F=ma IN BALANCE !!! It all CLEARLY makes perfect sense, AS BALANCE AND completeness go hand in hand. Gravity AND ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy are linked AND BALANCED opposites, AS E=MC2 is clearly F=ma ON BALANCE; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. E=MC2 is CLEARLY F=ma ON BALANCE. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Gravity is ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy ON BALANCE !!! (Energy has/involves GRAVITY, AND ENERGY has/involves inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE. BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE is fundamental.) I have mathematically unified physics/physical experience, AS E=MC2 is CLEARLY F=ma ON BALANCE !!! GREAT !!! ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity !!! By Frank DiMeglio
@davidchung1697
@davidchung1697 3 года назад
Really exciting stuff!
@garyha2650
@garyha2650 3 года назад
Another aspect that might have been missed is vibration at frequencies too low for us to have noticed and their interactions influencing structure. Our solar system, for example, might have a fundamental resonant frequency the way all other things do. In a sand experiment on latex stretched across a speaker with two frequencies I found a combination where the sand arranged itself in what looked like a solar system with planets, all revolving around the central sun basically. There were also thin streamers of sand moving from planets to each other. What would happen inside an acrylic sphere in zero-G?
@frankdimeglio8216
@frankdimeglio8216 2 года назад
@israel socratus ON THE ESSENTIAL AND NECESSARY RELATION OF E=MC2 AS F=MA (IN BALANCE), AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is clearly gravity AS WHAT IS NECESSARILY POSSIBLE/POTENTIAL AND ACTUAL IN BALANCE: Energy has/involves GRAVITY, AND ENERGY has/involves inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE. Gravity AND ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy are linked AND BALANCED opposites, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity ! Gravity is ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. ACCORDINGLY, the Moon AND THE PLANETS move AWAY very, very, very slightly in comparison to WHAT IS THE SUN !! SO, carefully consider what is THE EYE !! Finally, think about what is the speed of light (c). E=MC2 is CLEARLY F=ma (ON BALANCE), AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity ! Magnificent. It ALL does CLEARLY make perfect sense ON BALANCE !!! This does explain the fourth dimension, including the term c4 therewith !!! "Mass"/ENERGY involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE consistent with/as what is BALANCED electromagnetic/gravitational force/ENERGY, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. (Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy.) Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity ! Accordingly, the rotation of WHAT IS THE MOON matches it's revolution. So, notice that what is THE MOON is basically dead or inert ON BALANCE !!! GREAT. INDEED, objects fall at the SAME RATE (neglecting air resistance, of course); AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity; AS E=MC2 IS F=ma ON BALANCE !!! The sky is BLUE, AND what is THE EARTH is ALSO BLUE !! (Notice what is THE EYE !!) ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. E=MC2 is CLEARLY proven to be F=ma ON BALANCE, AS gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy !!! Great. Carefully consider what is the Sun. (Very importantly, outer "space" involves full inertia; AND it is fully invisible AND black.) Consider what is BALANCED observer dependent/related experience ! Carefully consider the man (INCLUDING what is THE EYE) who actually IS in outer "space". NOW, think about TIME; AS the stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. INSTANTANEITY is therefore FUNDAMENTAL to what is the FULL and proper UNDERSTANDING of physics/physical experience. So, here we have established what can basically and sensibly be understood as constituting a one dimensional relation. A white dwarf star is about the size of the Earth, AND it is ALSO (ON BALANCE) the PROJECTED form or fate (IN TIME) of the Sun !!! Great !!! Stellar clustering ALSO proves (ON BALANCE) that E=MC2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Against what is outer "space", why would the Sun maintain what is its "preferential" existence ? The answer is THE EYE/the observer. INDEED, notice that THE EYE is invisible AND VISIBLE IN BALANCE; AS E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy ! Now, ON BALANCE, consider what is the speed of light (c). A galaxy is basically FLAT. SO, think about a TWO dimensional surface OR SPACE (ON BALANCE) as well. HALF of the galaxies are "dead" or inert, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity; AS E=MC2 IS F=ma !! Carefully consider what is THE EYE !! TIME dilation ULTIMATELY proves (ON BALANCE) that E=MC2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. INDEED, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Great. E=MC2 IS F=ma. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM energy. Excellent !!! BALANCE and completeness go hand in hand !!! GRAVITATIONAL force/ENERGY IS proportional to (or BALANCED with/as) inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma ON BALANCE; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Consider WHAT IS THE MAN who IS standing on what is THE EARTH/ground. Touch AND feeling BLEND, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Think about TIME !!! NOW, the stars AND PLANETS do REMAIN AS what are POINTS in the night sky. TIME dilation ULTIMATELY proves ON BALANCE that ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma. This explains the cosmological redshift AND the "black holes". Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. It ALL CLEARLY makes perfect sense, AS BALANCE AND completeness go hand in hand. Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=MC2 is CLEARLY F=ma ON BALANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. The fact that the rotation of WHAT IS THE MOON matches it's revolution is not a meaningless coincidence, AS the fact that both the Sun AND the Moon are the SAME SIZE in the sky is not some sort of a meaningless coincidence. Notice the match with the size of what is THE EYE. Magnificent !!! It ALL CLEARLY makes perfect sense, AS BALANCE AND completeness go hand in hand. E=MC2 IS CLEARLY F=ma ON BALANCE, AS gravity AND ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy are linked AND BALANCED opposites; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity ON BALANCE !!! Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. Great !!! Carefully consider what are the POINTS in the night sky ON BALANCE !!! Think about the necessity (or essential nature) of TIME, AS E=MC2 IS clearly F=ma ON BALANCE !!! Great. It is proven. ("Mass"/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. E=MC2 IS F=ma.) Consider what is THE SUN AND what is THE EARTH/ground in DIRECT comparison, AS the stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky !!! GREAT !!! E=MC2 IS F=ma !!!! By Frank DiMeglio
@Eugensdiet
@Eugensdiet 3 года назад
Why is electrical charge discounted as to explain the physical characteristics of the universe that you are trying to make dark matter to explain?
@norbertjendruschj9121
@norbertjendruschj9121 3 года назад
Because the electric universe is stupid pseudoscience. Don´t expect Prof. Hossenfelder to waste her time with nonsense.
@stoferb876
@stoferb876 3 года назад
Because then dark matter wouldn't be "dark" since any particle with an electric charge would obviously interact with electromagnetism. Any particle that has an electric charge will interact with light of some wavelength and is thus in principle detectable through telescopes so it wouldn't be dark matter.
@Eugensdiet
@Eugensdiet 3 года назад
@@stoferb876 @who said anything about dark matter. So if the universe had a primarily negative charge of a positive charge how would it be detected? The charge would be mainly in the galaxies. The electromagnetic force would extend thru out.
@norbertjendruschj9121
@norbertjendruschj9121 3 года назад
@UCi1JJC-IByge-eLQQMg7vhw I don´t understand your first sentence. Your second is irony?
@Eugensdiet
@Eugensdiet 3 года назад
@@norbertjendruschj9121 who is @UCi1JJC-IByge-eLQQMg7vhw? For a moment I thought you were addressing me.
@onehitpick9758
@onehitpick9758 3 года назад
The obvious problem with desired galaxy velocities is that galaxies don't "suck" in stars. They generate them, spin them up, and then release them from orbital confinement. This will become obvious if we observe Sag-A* and surrounding activity long enough. By the way, even the MOND equations look very omissive. At a minimum, you would should need electrified, magnetized, gravitized Navier Stokes to even being to approximate the dynamics of a galaxy. At concentrated centers, you would need more than this because Navier is just making the particulate Newtonian assumption.
@raymondswenson1268
@raymondswenson1268 Год назад
My hypothesis is that Dark Matter is just ordinary matter separated from our universe in a fourth spatial dimension, a dimension that does not transmit electromagnetic energy (photons of light, x-rays, gamma rays, radio waves), and only interacts with us via gravity. My hypothesis can explain the absence of anti-matter, by locating the anti-matter at the extreme end of this spatial displacement. I would propose also that the gravitational potential energy of this arrangement may be one source of Dark Energy. Finally, because Dark Matter does not interact with normal Matter, it can fall into our gravity wells. A large part of the observed mass of the sun and planets in our own solar system should be Dark Matter. DM may have a role in the earth's core spin that generates our magnetic field, and flips direction periodically.
@LuciFeric137
@LuciFeric137 3 года назад
Very interesting thank you.
3 года назад
Very welcome
@tnekkc
@tnekkc 3 года назад
starts at 8:12
@Anorve
@Anorve 3 года назад
1:18:00 Sabine: "It's kindergarten math"
@AndyKashen
@AndyKashen 2 года назад
If dark matter is a real thing and clumps with regular matter by gravity, then shouldn't it occur to various degrees in some stars? And if so, shouldn't it affect the behavior of stars?
@schmetterling4477
@schmetterling4477 2 года назад
That is one of the effects physicists are looking for.
@martinsoos
@martinsoos 3 года назад
The most important curve I have ever seen when it comes to dark matter is the curve of the arms of galaxies. Normally they follow the curve of a see shell, but the deformed curve of the arms attached to the center pole of a galaxy is pulled out of shape. That tells me that 1/r^2 does not apply from the center of the galaxy.
@rainertheraven7813
@rainertheraven7813 3 года назад
You are right. In a cloud of stars, the inner ones are pulled outside by the outer stars. It is a similar effect like near the center of earth there is no gravity at all. Interesting, that astronomers don´t like it to know that and instead invent something weird like dark matter.
@GiorgiMelqadze-o6i
@GiorgiMelqadze-o6i 11 месяцев назад
As I expected, Dr. Sabine Hossenfelder says that MOND is missing generally covariant completion and that she is more on a theory side of General Relativity. Likewise, l think, Einstein's response to MOND would be: "Is MOND a limit case of any gravitational field equation in Reimann space? Does MOND go beyond Riemann geometry?" Nonetheless, the modifications of General Relativity seem to be preferable to the idea of dark matter. Of course, considering the covariant version of εij tensor - εμν - was a consistent theoretical step. As we know, superfluid has zero viscosity, just as geometric space does: in geometric space, there is no friction between spots. So, superfluid is space-like, so to speak, unlike a bunch of particles, where there is internal movement resistance. Therefore, it is logical that introducing superfluid dark matter yields the picture that looks like MOND more than the situation of the bunch of dark matter PARTICLES. I have come up with two mathematical modifications of General Relativity - one for a rotating body like a galaxy and rotating black hole and the other for the general case where the Riemann tensor can be defined differently and somewhat freely at each point of the space. Can the second one be useful for quantum gravity? The second one is in a sketch form, and the first one I wrote a year ago, but I have not yet published both. I am going to publish a paper about all of this. But before publishing, I think it is reasonable to submit my ideas to the specialist whom I trust - Dr. Sabine Hossenfelder. May I?
@debyton
@debyton 2 года назад
The Tully-Fisher correlation is due to baryonic matter having little or no detectable indigenous gravitation. Debytonic (dark) matter is the primary conveyer of gravitation in this universe. Newtonian and Einsteinian gravitation (and MOND) in baryonic matter is due to the sequestration density, and variations therein, of debytonic (dark) matter particles within the pyrine structure of baryonic matter particles. : LiveScience : Forums: History & Culture: Culture, History & Science: "What is a living individual and is it naturally universally mobile?"
@sergeyyatskevitch3617
@sergeyyatskevitch3617 3 года назад
I may be missing the target by a mile or so, but I think it might be interesting to examine how vortices and phonons are interacting in a superfluid and then to see if you can include a photon interaction to this system. Just a thought on the fly :) Great presentation, thank you, Sabine and thank you the Instituto de Astrofisica.
3 года назад
Interesting! What would you expect from the vortices?
@sergeyyatskevitch3617
@sergeyyatskevitch3617 3 года назад
@ I would expect that the presence of phonons in a superfluid would change the interaction between the vortices. In other words, introduction of phonons would model, or so I hope, that long-range force, which Dr. Hossenfelder referred to, in the medium that has other interacting objects (vortices). At least it may be considered as the first approximation to the problem, discussed in this presentation. IMHO :) Cheers!
@ChiDraconis
@ChiDraconis 3 года назад
@@sergeyyatskevitch3617 Your opinion: "Virtual Reality" which does not actually exist but is so super convincing: The ouch is reality theory absent any medium of transport not unlike UV Catastrophe theory but where does the 'hardness' tensor come from??
@MrBendybruce
@MrBendybruce 3 года назад
For some reason Sabine often rubs me up the wrong way, but credit where credit is due, this was a excellent and thought provoking presentation. In addition, the questions from the panel really added a lot to the conversation. The format of these seminars is very effective, having so many subject matter experts on-board brings a lot of credibility and depth. I hope this format is retained for a long time to come.
@82spiders
@82spiders 3 года назад
Sabine rubs you? Perhaps only in passing.
@freefall9832
@freefall9832 3 года назад
I wish haha
@jeremybryant882
@jeremybryant882 3 года назад
What's right about Physics? Keeping it as low as reasonably achievable. No reason for alarm. Live on earth.
@Thomas_Geist
@Thomas_Geist 2 года назад
So, if I’m hearing this correctly: Stars and galaxies are not behaving the way the mathematical model demands so you simply invent something that is conveniently undetectable and in fact invisible and distribute it anywhere you like to rectify your equations with observations? I’m not a cosmologist, I’m an engineer and I would not drive over a bridge designed by an engineer that uses this sort of method. I find it pretty scary to learn this kind of stuff is going on in Western science. “Play around with the parameters until they fit.” What does that even mean…in English?
@gambit633
@gambit633 3 года назад
From a naïve view - a naïve explanation. Here are two of the paradoxes in the universe, 1) Fermi's Paradox - Why can't we see evidence of other alien civilizations? 2) Dark matter - there appears to be a lot of unseen matter. Maybe these two are related. Why would alien civilizations be unseen 'dark'? a) Most young civilizations throughout history are violently expansive (see history). b) We already now have simplistic stealth drones that take/read light hitting one side and mirror it with LEDs on the other side... not yet exact, but somewhat giving the appearance of 'apparently' transparent to light (energy) and we are at a primitive stage in that. So imagine a new interstellar race... first thing it does (once it is sufficiently advanced) is to go 'dark'... not really 'dark' ... simply not visible to those looking for it like 'dark matter'... but it is harder to hide gravity. Perhaps the universe is full of alien civilizations they just don't want aggressive new civilizations (like us) seeing them. Explains both paradoxes simply.
@arctic_haze
@arctic_haze 3 года назад
I am glad I found this gem. I am always interested in what Sabine Hossenfelder has to say even when I do not 100% agree. But on the subject of dark matter, she absolutely has some new and interesting ideas to offer. I believe this could be the best explanation of the problem.
@ianw_xvi8784
@ianw_xvi8784 3 года назад
But it still fails at large scales, just like MOND. Until somebody can come up with an alternative that explains DM at both small (galaxy) and large (clusters, colliding clusters) scales, DM is still the only game in town.
@arctic_haze
@arctic_haze 3 года назад
@@ianw_xvi8784 I think you missed the point of Sabine's proposition. At large distances, her dark matter is supposed to behave like WIMPs. Only within galaxies it superfluid and exerts a MOND-like force on barionic matter.
@ianw_xvi8784
@ianw_xvi8784 3 года назад
@@arctic_haze Except that observation shows that not to be true, eh?
@arctic_haze
@arctic_haze 3 года назад
@@ianw_xvi8784 In my opinion rather the other way. The model fits well observation but it is not clear what is its physics. Namely is such a substance physically possible at all.
@ianw_xvi8784
@ianw_xvi8784 3 года назад
@@arctic_haze It looks like retrospective curve-fitting to me. As if someone has said, "well MOND is quite good at the galaxy level, but fails at large scales. DM explains the large scales well. So, why not have something that acts differently at different scales?" Sorry, that looks like a weak hypothesis to me. And still does not explain a lot of observations. Have a look at 'The Dirtiest Fight in Physics Is About the Universe Itself', on Gizmodo, and the link therein to Ethan Siegel's blog. The plain fact of the matter is that these models fail at large scales. And until they can explain that without tweak theories requiring one sort of interaction in galaxies, and another at large scale, DM will continue to be light years ahead of the alternatives.
@holgerjrgensen2166
@holgerjrgensen2166 3 года назад
All matter is made of light, The Contrast-Principle and the Perspective-Principle are the 'two legs' as makes Feeling 'walk' into sensing.
@uninspired3583
@uninspired3583 3 года назад
Fermions would like to have a word with you
@onehitpick9758
@onehitpick9758 3 года назад
@@uninspired3583 When fermions annihilate, out comes light.
@jerrybrown6169
@jerrybrown6169 Год назад
I wonder, why the bullet cluster observations were not addressed? It is difficult to explain the bullet cluster without some independent physical massive component. This puts the MOND idea on difficult footing.
@barbaraspangenberg6400
@barbaraspangenberg6400 2 года назад
It has been stated by Pavel Kroupa ( at about 1:20:00) that we don't know where gravity comes from - but we DO know where it comes from: From the curvature of space (-time). Sabine Hossenfelder (at about 1:33:00) states that she cannot distinguish whether the dark matter is IN the curvature of spacetime or if it is something special. Why not including the dark matter effect into the curvature of spacetime? Then we would have to admit that it leads to the same equations regardless if we add additional (unknown) matter or if we take away some space.
@davidschroeder3272
@davidschroeder3272 3 года назад
Am super excited to watch this having just discovered it this morning, and being keenly interested in this aspect of astronomy.
3 года назад
If you like this topic, check out the other recorded (here on this channel) and upcoming Golden Webinars, where you can actively participate: astro.uc.cl/en/item-3-menu-izquierdo-2/573-golden-webinars-in-astrophysics-now-on-youtube
@gilsonj
@gilsonj Год назад
could dark matter be matter that is not in the present? i.e. the past or future?
@Jaantoenen
@Jaantoenen Год назад
I understand that whether by creation or evolution, motion has a point source and in its symmetry is gravity, and in their relative interference are their condensates and chaos. Like, for each motion there is a counter motion. Howeer, any motion starts in two opposing directions.
@thedouglasw.lippchannel5546
So, within the MTS equation we have all wavelengths, from the shortest (Black Hole) to the longest (Dark Energy). Dark Matter then is a wavelength not as long as Dark Energy. But CIG Theory still needs a more direct link to the reality of the electromagnetic spectrum in the context that the spectrum proceeds at "c". Are we sure it always proceeds at "c"? Maxwell made this link yes, but in CIG, the "c" portion of the spectrum is reserved for Dark Energy, while the lesser rates = more solid forms of matter. Quantum Gravity appears resolved in CIG. But this aspect of melting CIG into the spectrum because of the consistency of the spectrum to travel at "c" confuses me. Any help would be appreciated. CIG resolves so many quantum and cosmological conundrums. We know it is correct. While inherent to CIG is the link between Dark Matter and Dark Energy, the direct reference to Dark Matter waves was absorbed from Dr. Lisanti's Simon Foundation video on Dark Matter. She is amazing. (you too Sabine , don't get jealous)The offering then is that we extend the wavelength to Dark Energy which is much much longer than even Dark Matter. The MTS equation links Black Holes to Dark Energy. As stated above though, that issue of "c" as applied to the spectrum bothers me. HELP!
@riadhalrabeh3783
@riadhalrabeh3783 Год назад
It is possible to derive the Tully-Fisher from Newton's law as well- with some fiddling.. see this which take a=a0 at large distances; a=GM/r^2=v^2/r; Giving; v^4= GM/r *GM/r=G *(GM/r^2)*M=(G a0) M; or v^4 ∝ M, QED.
@mrcleanisin
@mrcleanisin Год назад
The audio is muffled. I don't know who to believe, but I do KNOW that if someone can't solve the 3 doors puzzle, I have little confidence in anything thy say.
@richardgreen7225
@richardgreen7225 3 года назад
What If the ratio Gravity-Mass/Inertia-Mass is NOT a constant? (consider Mach's Principle) F = a * i (i is inertia) ==> a = F / i. a = w^2 * r = g/i = (m/i) * [ G M(r) / r^2 ]. (v = w * r) is not matching expectation given M(r) based on visible mass. Dark Matter hypothesis assumes we have a problem with M(r). But, what if i < m at the edges of galaxies? Find i(r) model that matches observation. Now you have an equivalent solution that might be more illuminating. - This is the Mach's Principle that Einstein mentioned and then said nothing more.
@onehitpick9758
@onehitpick9758 3 года назад
The CMB is just galaxy and dust emission. There are 100s of thousands of galaxies, as seen from just Hubble, in a single pixel of Planck. We need to realize this to move forward.
@DegreesOfThree
@DegreesOfThree 3 года назад
@israel socratus Sure, Jan.
@pedrosura
@pedrosura 3 года назад
When you look at the CMB image and at the plane of the Galaxy this 2.7 K image seems unfaced that is looking through a hot source(the galaxy) and there is no effect on the error bars or resolution?? How can this be?? Im skeptical about this image and any results or conclusions drawn from it. If we lived in the center of the galaxy, would this image look the same since we can look through matter as if its not there?
@onehitpick9758
@onehitpick9758 3 года назад
They "cancel" the galaxy out of the CMB using adaptive signal processing, but it is not remotely possible to do this using any known cancellation theory. IF you look at the Hubble Ultra Deep field images, you can see hundreds of thousands of galaxies in a single pixel of Planck's "CMBR" which gives you an idea of what they're actually measuring, and only when they get away from our galactic plane.
@shawns0762
@shawns0762 3 года назад
At the center of high mass galaxies mass is traveling near the speed of light therefore as per relativity that mass is dilated through spacetime, the mass that we think of as being at the center of our galaxy is all around us. This is the explanation for the observed rotation rates of stars in high mass galaxies. This is why low mass galaxies have normal rotation rates. There is no black holes or dark matter there is just relativity. Most people don't know that Einstein repeatedly said that something like black holes (he died before the term was coined) can not exist and his reasoning is rock solid. He explained why a Schwarzchild singularity is not possible in the 1939 journal "Annals of Mathematics".
@raymondswenson1268
@raymondswenson1268 Год назад
If my DM hypothesis is correct, there should be neutron stars and black holes in those membranes. In spiralling pairs of black holes are only observable as gravity waves, but inspiralling neutron stars generate electromagnetic energy in a broad spectrum from gamma, x-ray, visible, and radio. The LIGOs have seen neutron star collisions that are also seen in photons. But if my hypothesis is right, LIGOs would see a neutron star merging that does NOT generate photons in our universe.
@skyisthelimitreadyornotfor2
No, there is no direct evidence for dark matter.. It's an ad--hoc explanation, created only because heliocentrism doesn't match observations.
@valentinmalinov8424
@valentinmalinov8424 3 года назад
In 1980 ties when "Dark Matter" comes into consideration we believe, that Milky Way Galaxy has about a few hundred million stars. Since the launch of the Hubble telescope, our understanding of the star content of the galaxy raised by a thousandfold. What is the credibility of the "Calculation" that the mass content of the Galaxy is not enough?
@ianw_xvi8784
@ianw_xvi8784 3 года назад
_"Since the launch of the Hubble telescope, our understanding of the star content of the galaxy raised by a thousandfold."_ No, it hasn't.
@gravitonthongs1363
@gravitonthongs1363 3 года назад
We don’t calculate mass by counting visibly identifiable stars.
@MinusMedley
@MinusMedley 9 месяцев назад
I would like to share my theory like this someday, hopefully someone discovers the same thing well before I find time to plan and share it.
@howardtieckelmann9934
@howardtieckelmann9934 2 года назад
Could our theory of galactic mechanics be mistaken? We assumed atoms followed a planetary model. They do not. We likewise assume galaxies follow a planetary model. Perhaps they do not. As evidence mounts against a big-bang and expansion, perhaps we need to begin to consider alternative sources for the universe. Permit an almost absurdly obvious observation: Galactic nuclei exude immense amounts of radiation and matter as a galactic wind. If galaxies do not follow a planetary model and instead grow, can their rotation curves make sense?
@schmetterling4477
@schmetterling4477 Год назад
"Perhaps" is not a scientific argument. ;-)
@howardtieckelmann9934
@howardtieckelmann9934 Год назад
.@@schmetterling4477 True, and that's about all we got with dark matter now, isn't it?. All this dark matter conjecture and controversy shows me is that our current suppositions about galactic mechanics are unlikely be correct. My guess is the when we get the model right and the curves will make perfect sense
@schmetterling4477
@schmetterling4477 Год назад
@@howardtieckelmann9934 What we got with dark matter is almost a century of observations that even an amateur with a decent telescope can repeat from his back yard.
@secretagent7888
@secretagent7888 3 года назад
Dr. Hossenfelder is very much data driven, so I pay her a lot of attention.
@mystryfine3481
@mystryfine3481 Год назад
it’s not dark, if anything it’s transparent. I think we don’t understand gravity on the galactic scale. does dark matter induce curvature. of course “dark matter” solves many problems, it should, it’s tailor made.
@tuberroot1112
@tuberroot1112 Год назад
I love the scientific moderator who announces a "120 second break". Unfortunately he did not state the 5-sigma confidence level on that duration. Rather sloppy.
@fermansmith6042
@fermansmith6042 3 года назад
It AMAZES me how much people with Very Similar professional credentials can differ so much in there opinions. We see this among Phd Economists. We see this among Phd Nutritionists And of course we see this among Phd Physicists..... One thing "seems" slightly difference.... Among Physicists there seems to sometimes a discrepancy even in the comprehension of the subject matter -- particularly with Dark Matter/Dark Energy. This seems Very Obvious even to me -- Someone with only one semester of Physics in high school.
@naturnaut9093
@naturnaut9093 2 года назад
There is NO NEED FOR "DM", if the physics of galaxies is handled correctly for Newton's law.
@schmetterling4477
@schmetterling4477 2 года назад
Your Nobel Prize is in the mail. ;-)
@NathanOkun
@NathanOkun 2 года назад
When you stated that the wrong kind of physicists were working on the Dark Matter/MOND complexity, I got the comedy image of the genius escape artist in prison who seemingly gets out by making himself look like somebody else, but when he tries to take off his makeup, it will not come off and he cries, "The wrong man has escaped!!"
@StephenPaulKing
@StephenPaulKing 2 года назад
A lovely talk! Very informative!
2 года назад
Glad you enjoyed it.
@GeneralSulla
@GeneralSulla Год назад
Now, I've thought this very same thing for a long time. Space however "enpty" is indeed never empty. Even the so-called virtual particles do have mass, no matter how instantaneously they appear from nothing in empty space and annihilate each other as instantaneously. Cosmologists aver on one hand that all mass and particles are connected in the Universe and affect each other, (Entanglement) but on the other hand treat mass and gravity as a finite local event, ignoring those very same virtual particles as well as any matter scattered in between. I've never understood that. The Hubble tension is the result of a nonsensical interpretation of what we don't know how to describe or understand. And don't get me started on the electron in a hydrogen atom rigamarole. They're still trying to measure the mass/energy quantity to 10 decimal places that change every year, that first disagrees then magically agree with predicted results, using undeciferable methods like Feynman diagrams and chromodynamics, et al. "Shut up and calculate" Feynman said when questioned on his methodology. Methinks these hidebound physicists today are in need of a dogmatic enema by a young Einsteinian like character.
@raymondswenson1268
@raymondswenson1268 Год назад
Sean Carroll PhD has a nice course on Dark Matter and Dark Energy for Wondrium/ The Great Courses. It is from 2008nso it does not have the latest info on the detection of gravitational waves.
@DarknessIsThePath
@DarknessIsThePath 3 года назад
Would have been fun to partake in such a conference, even just listening
3 года назад
There plenty of Golden Webinars coming up where you can participate: astro.uc.cl/en/item-3-menu-izquierdo-2/573-golden-webinars-in-astrophysics-now-on-youtube
@ytb40
@ytb40 3 года назад
Thank you so much for uploading this great conference! In addition to 36:35 , John von Neumann once said that with four degrees of freedom, one can fit an elephant. It's sad to see a discipline like physics, which is meant to give qualitative insights, going the way of numerical model-fitting, using so many degrees of freedom that virtually every nonsensical claim can be mapped to such a model and be "proven" by simulation.
@barbaraspangenberg6400
@barbaraspangenberg6400 2 года назад
Thank you very much for this great and fascinating talk! What is the difference between the "impostor field" and the space itself? What is the difference between superfluid dark matter and the space itself? Why not consider superfluid dark matter just as "missing space" in the standard model?
@rogeriopenna9014
@rogeriopenna9014 3 года назад
Imediatelly identified the accent of Tuila Ziliotto as southern Brazil. I was correct, UFRGS, Porto Alegre. This is quite the international panel.
@hamobu
@hamobu Год назад
If there's some sort of particle that changes state to super fluid, wouldn't that involve some sort of energy state? How would that happen?
@ericvelasquez1282
@ericvelasquez1282 2 года назад
The better question is "Is real matter dark"
@onehitpick9758
@onehitpick9758 3 года назад
Kroupa asked really good questions about CMBR assumption and incompatible large scale structures. I would like to hear these addressed.
@ianw_xvi8784
@ianw_xvi8784 3 года назад
_"Kroupa asked really good questions about CMBR assumption "_ Nope, he asked a really dumb question. Dust? Lol.
@onehitpick9758
@onehitpick9758 3 года назад
@@ianw_xvi8784 It is not dumb. If you know of the Hubble Deep Field images (and ultra deep field) you can count up the galaxies that are blazing into one single pixel of the most resolved CMBR measurements (like from Planck). The visible galaxies alone are in the thousands (within one CMBR pixel), and they have plenty of dust, active emissions, and many other things that span the microwaves.
@ianw_xvi8784
@ianw_xvi8784 3 года назад
@@onehitpick9758 No, it is dumb. Which is why nobody is making such claims. You cannot get a near perfect blackbody spectrum from starlight. Which is what galaxies are. It is a really dumb claim.
@onehitpick9758
@onehitpick9758 3 года назад
@@ianw_xvi8784 Actually, you can get a blackbody spectrum from starlight. Stars, themselves approximate blackbodies except for distinct lines, and when you mix trillions of them at different redshifts, you get a blackbody spectrum. What you can't do is cancel the Milky Way and claim to see the tiny background, and worse, the fluctuations behind it. People who believe this are mislead. Also, what you can't do is look at an angular region of space, break it up into pixels, and claim you are making a background measurement when one of your pixels contains hundreds of thousands of uncatalogued, uncancelled galaxies (and many more that we can't see with things like Hubble). And the idea that it is a "perfect" blackbody spectrum failed around 2008. There are deviations as instrumentation got better than COBE, and proposed reasons for the observed deviations.
@ianw_xvi8784
@ianw_xvi8784 3 года назад
@@onehitpick9758 _"Actually, you can get a blackbody spectrum from starlight. Stars, themselves approximate blackbodies except for distinct lines"_ Nope, not even close. To quote Edward L. (Ned) Wright from his website back in 1997; "Can the CMBR be redshifted starlight? NO! The CMB radiation is such a perfect fit to a blackbody that it cannot be made by stars. The reason for this is that stars are at best only pretty good blackbodies, and the usual absorption lines and band edges make them pretty bad blackbodies. In order for a star to radiate it must have a temperature gradient in its outer regions, as shown below: (you'll have to look at the website to see the images) Because of this temperature gradient, the light we see is a mixture of radiation from the hotter lower levels (blue) and the cooler outer levels (red). When blackbodies with these temperatures are mixed, the resulting purple curve is close to but not exactly equal to the blackbody curve (black). Of course a real star has lines as shown by the G2V (solar-like) star spectrum in green. So the purple curve is already an idealized star in which the absorption of radiation is independent of the frequency. In order to show how badly this purple curve fits the FIRAS observations of the CMB spectrum, the graph below plots just the difference between the purple curve and the blackbody, along with the FIRAS data points. The errorbars have been multiplied by 20 so they will be visible, and the purple curve misses these enlarged errorbars by a large factor. In fact, the purple curve can by very well approximated by a kind of distorted spectrum known as a Kompaneets or Sunyaev-Zel'dovich distortion with a parameter y = 0.0062. The actual fitted value for y from the FIRAS data is y = -0.000001 +/- 0.000006, so even an idealized star with no absorption lines is 1000 times too "non-black" to fit the CMB observations. One can easily have stars visible from different redshifts which will smooth out the absorption lines, but these stars will appear as different temperature blackbodies and it is the mixing of different apparent temperatures that causes the deviation of the purple curve. Hence more mixing will make things worse. The gray dashed curve on the plot shows how much the fit can be improved by adjusting the emissivity or sky coverage of the stars. Normally the emissivity is 1-R where R is the reflectance, and thus the emissivity usually has to be less than 1. But the best fit emissivity is 1.09. So this would be unphysical unless the redshift is caused by tired light. In this case the apparent emissivity is (1+z)3 >> 1, and one can lower this down to an apparent emissivity of 1.09 by only partly covering the sky with stars. This requires some fine tuning, since for a typical stellar temperature of 4000 K a redshift of 1+z = 1466 is needed which gives an apparent emissivity of 3,150,662,696 that needs to be canceled by a sky coverage of 0.00000000034511 in this model. But the errors in the CMB fit are still 300 times larger than the FIRAS data allow, so this model can also be ruled out. How does the Big Bang produce a nearly perfect blackbody CMB? In the Big Bang model there are no temperature gradients because the Universe is homogeneous. While the temperature varies with time, this variation is exactly canceled by the redshift so the apparent temperature of radiation from redshift z is given by T(z)/(1+z) which is equal to the CMB temperature To for all redshifts which contribute to the CMB." So no, it cannot be from starlight. That is a particularly silly thing to claim. Which is likely why nobody has ever replied to CMB papers with such a claim in the peer-reviewed literature. You'll need to Google 'Can the CMBR be redshifted starlight? NO!', to see the webpage.
@julesm3576
@julesm3576 3 года назад
Sabine Hossenfelder and Carlo Rovelli should get together OFTEN :-) to further science. They are both on the same wavelength in my view, and are honest, about bad science. Both Rovelli and Hossenfelder are very positive about the way science can move forward in humble ways that are empirically grounded.
@Jason-gt2kx
@Jason-gt2kx 2 года назад
Novel Dark Matter Hypothesis Dark Matter is simply unaccounted for gravity. GR states that gravity is the consequence of the curvature of spacetime. Is it possible that the structure of spacetime itself could be warped without the presence of mass? Spacetime has been shown to react like a fabric by warping, twisting, and propagating independently of mass, and all have been proven with observations from gravitational lensing, frame dragging, and now gravitational waves! Fabrics can be stretched, pressured, and/or heated to the point of causing a deformation and losing its elastic nature. All of these conditions were extreme during inflation, so it is plausible that the “fabric” of spacetime analog could extend having its elastic property have hit a yield point? Therefore, if gravity is strictly the consequence of the warped of spacetime, and fabrics can be permanently overstretched, then those empty warped geodesics would create gravitational wells independent of mass. My hypothesis of DM is subatomic black hole imprints of the quantum fluctuations that popped in at the moment of inflation. The CMB shows where the hot dense regions were they created the galaxies. They would have been the initial cause and location of the warping. These imprints would be clouds of quantum sized floating fixed geodesics, so they couldn’t expand or evaporate. Perhaps nothing has been detected because there is nothing to detect. GR wouldn’t require modification because DM would just be an extension of how spacetime behaves at extreme conditions. No MOND, no WIMPs, and no parallel universes, just empty spacetime deformations that produce gravitational wells to help jump start galaxy accretion processes. Zwicky may have named is Missing Mass correctly since he detected some gravity without mass present to cause it…
@schmetterling4477
@schmetterling4477 Год назад
You are confused. ;-)
@noahway13
@noahway13 3 года назад
It is plain crazy to have that many experts, all of whom want to talk. You have to have someone coordinate the thing and keep track of who has and hasn't spoken. EDIT. Unless Sabine put it together, then it was pure genius. But I'm a little biased = )
@NathanOkun
@NathanOkun 2 года назад
Sounds tio me that you are now re-introducing to Cosmology a new version of the old "Aether" field, but now fitting actual data including the Cosmological Constant value. The more things change, the more they stay the same...
@afriedrich1452
@afriedrich1452 2 года назад
How can you distinguish between a single dark matter particle that has a superfluid phase, and two dark matter particles - one that is bosonic and its fermionic partner?
@Psyleidoscope
@Psyleidoscope 3 года назад
no, but the Ether is.
@bIametheniIe
@bIametheniIe Год назад
Jesus. The 3 minutes of intro cards is a bit much. Wowzers
@adrianwright8685
@adrianwright8685 9 месяцев назад
12:07. "DM rarely interacts with itself or normal matter " ? . I thought the whole point of the hypothesis was DM 's apparent continuous gravitational pull on normal matter?
@tomjohn8733
@tomjohn8733 3 года назад
Very interesting lecture discussion…dark matter as clear as mud, but covers the subjects…what I also found interesting, looking at everyone partaking here, is the part on their hair, which side of their head the part is located, I can determine if they are right, left or ambidextrous handed or which hemisphere is dominant,..from which one can determine how they think, people who are left hemisphere dominant are more likely to be mathematicians like Sabina, but as a left handed, right hemisphere dominant person math is not my forte, but I’m good at understanding and explaining how things etc, thank you, enjoyed this very much…
@meofamily4
@meofamily4 3 года назад
This superfluid, with its extreme dispersion but coupled gravitational force, sounds to me like the luminiferous ether revivified.
@NathanOkun
@NathanOkun 2 года назад
I do not understand this emphasis on "theory" at this early stage of the attempt to parametrize the causes and effects of Dark Matter/MOND. Theory is for explaining things AFTER you have found out what the universe is doing, since it has no reason to give you an inch as to why it is doing anything whatsoever. In many cases, you can create a formula that gives the correct answers and not have a clue as to why until later (the concept of photons prior to quantum mechanics). You just try to get formulae that are as simple as possible that work and then dissect them to see what they mean.
@LoremIpsum1970
@LoremIpsum1970 3 года назад
Spent a week walking round NYC in 09/2019 and found all the stereotypes didn't hold true, people were walking slower as they were all looking at their phones... The Highline was probably the highlight for me though a bit crowded. Spent most of the time fueled by Starbucks salted caramel frappuccinos...
@paulmichaelfreedman8334
@paulmichaelfreedman8334 3 года назад
Is it possible, that if one considers the analogy of spacetime as a fabric, that that fabric is stretched in the presence of mass (like a sponge displacing part of the volume of water it is in), and that the fabric around the mass is "bunched up" as a result of that stretching, creating it's own gradient (independently from the mass's gravity) consistent with the dark matter theory? Consider this a visual thought experiment. PS I'd love to see Sabine and Kip Thorne in a discussion to see where they agree and disagree.
@RickBonner1
@RickBonner1 3 года назад
You are just soooo good Sabine. I'm a total fan.
@ericswain4177
@ericswain4177 3 года назад
The more we have observed it and speculated about it the more REAL we make it and real it becomes.
@DegreesOfThree
@DegreesOfThree 3 года назад
Definitely not a cult
@SuperFluidFerroFluid
@SuperFluidFerroFluid 3 года назад
The absence of studies in Electricity and Plasma in our schools, result in people growing up to become retarded on the subject.. Not knowing the differences between logic and made up stories. It is very evident that dark matter does not exist, and that "space" much like our atmosphere, is a layer of "ionized air/plasma" with differences in electric density that holds everything together electrically, identically to how objects behace in water, or any other fluid. Fluid, Air, Plasma share the SAME dynamics. Based on the laws of Electromagnetism, Density and Boyancy...
@EnglishMike
@EnglishMike 3 года назад
I'd bet you any money you like that every physicist on that panel knows far more than you do about electricity and plasma physics than you do. Even the grad students would embarrass you within the first five minutes.
@dryan89
@dryan89 3 года назад
No clear answers but taking into account the level of difficulty within the subject an excellent way of teasing out new ideas.
@thenatureofnurture6336
@thenatureofnurture6336 3 года назад
Welcome to first class. Remember to pull the curtain behind you.
@cuantin2011
@cuantin2011 3 года назад
Hi, How could I get the Spanish translation from Zoom?
@knowone-sts2263
@knowone-sts2263 3 года назад
Hi Sabine, your sincerity and honesty are so beautiful. A brief concept for your ponder..... Quantum theory helped us grasp that particles dont really exist, only energy fields. What if energy is only a natural byproduct of conciousness deviding itself into discreteness by intention ? Maybe energy doesnt exist either. All could be conciousness and our percieved universe is a grand analog to digital conversion.
@sibeguy
@sibeguy 3 года назад
Why do you never include Electricity and Magnetism in the picture? NONE of the dark matter/energy experiments have ever shown any results…if you can’t find maybe it’s not real!
@ianw_xvi8784
@ianw_xvi8784 3 года назад
What the hell have 'electricity and magnetism' got to do with DM observations, rotation curves, etc? Are you sure that you aren't one of the Velikovskian cultists of electric universe? They don't have any science, nor any scientists.
@sibeguy
@sibeguy 3 года назад
@@ianw_xvi8784 I’ll take being a cultist as a compliment…kind of like those that saw how the heliocentric solar system simplified the physics of the geocentric solar system! Dark Matter science will go the way of the dodo bird…just like all there experiments…all failures!
@ianw_xvi8784
@ianw_xvi8784 3 года назад
@@sibeguy You mean 'their' experiments? And how long did it take to detect neutrinos? And then the other flavours of neutrinos? And the Higgs boson? And time dilation? And gravitational redshift? And gravitational waves? And black holes? I could go on. DM is strongly inferred from observation. No other alternative hypothesis comes close to explaining it. And the Velikovskian cultists you follow certainly can't even begin to try. They don't have any scientists! So, why don't you do the calculations for how magnetism can explain galaxy rotation curves? Hint: it has already been calculated. It is impossible. Give it a try though. It could be instructive for you. Further hint: you'll need to know the charge on a star. Assume zero, because that is pretty much what it has to be.
@muckvix
@muckvix 3 года назад
Sabine's talk starts at 8:12
@randywheeler5984
@randywheeler5984 2 года назад
Consider the bullet cluster, in which two galaxies have passed through each other in the past and are now separating. The images show that the observable matter fields and the dark matter fields from both galaxies have been pulled apart. In other words, the dark matter is no longer aligned with that galaxy's real matter. How does MOND, in any of its forms, Explain this?
@rexdalit3504
@rexdalit3504 3 года назад
Much of modern physics seems to have become a rather exotic series of curve fitting exercises. Sabine, what are the underlying physical ideas which would motivate your parametric curve fitting exercise? And shouldn't these physical ideas be stated near the beginning of your Lagrangian manipulations?
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