Everybody is talking about who was evil, who was right and who was wrong.. and I'm just sitting here thinking: woah... Those are some weird clothes Tatsumi is wearing...
And that's the biggest crime that any of the Shiki could've committed... It's worse than their campaign of mass of genocide... *Not being sarcastic at all*
The only truly 'good' Shiki was the nurse. She never killed anyone and starved herself to save her friend. In the end, she was murdered anyway, which shows how life is unfair in some regards.
The others only killed for the sake of survival, just like what the humans were doing. Are lions and tigers 'bad' for killing zebra for food rather than starving?
No I don't think they were bad to kill for survival, that's why I put inverted commas around the _good_. This show does a fantastic job of making you question morals, though.
Stephanie Smith Oh I see. Many people claim that the Shiki are evil or the humans are evil when it's neither. The way they made to where neither side is completley in the wrong is what I like so much about it.
omniXenderman I didn't like Megumi but her death was rather harsh. Though I knda wanted to see Kaori kill her. But ys I wish more characters that liked survived. Like Tatsumi, Tohru, Ritsuko, Natsuono Nao ect.
Just throwing my two cents out there: I think the humans were justified in killing the Shiki because it was for survival, I think the Shiki are justified in attacking humans because it is for survival, the only people not justified are specifically Sukano, and the other Shiki that moved to the village, because they attacked people not out of necessity but selfishness. In the end I think all the villagers were victims of the original Shiki that moved to the village, sukano and the Shiki that moved to the village are the villains and no one else. I get frustrated seeing people lump all the Shiki together when there is clearly a distinct difference between those who kill to live and those who kill out of selfishness
i agree, the villagers were the victims. The shiki drove them to insanity and survival. The villagers may have been too violent and paranoid but like i said, who drove them to be like that in the first place???? exactly. I wish every mf who caused all of this mess died before they started the greatest tragedy.
Sukano had her reason. It was her intention to turn this village into the only safe haven for the Shiki, where they can live free among each other without having to hide, to be scared. To do that they had to make a substaintial amount of Shiki by killing the villagers to take over the village, after that they could go outside to feed just enough without having to kill anyone. Then their society would become a sustainable and free one. It was a life running and hiding for hundred of years, being rejected and chased, that drived her to that decision, as her words implied "Chizuru... it must have hurt... to be hated, to be rejected." From her perspective, it's totally understandable.
I expected her to say "Chizuru, it must have hurt ...", meaning the physical pain. "to be hated, to be rejected" ... emotionally meant. When she said that, I could understand the Shiki more and more...it made me so sad
Neither the shiki nor the humans were necessarily doing "evil", because both sides were struggling to survive. To begin with, the shiki didn't become what they are of their own will, and if I remember correctly, Sunako says somewhere in the anime that no one wants to be such a creature, and to not have to feed off of humans would be much better. I agree that the shiki brought this upon themselves, but then again, it's for survival, just like how the humans fought to save themselves. This is not like attack on titan, where the titans ate humans for the pleasure of it. I believe that both sides were just trying to survive, just like anyone would want to do
+momo_fishcake Yeah wipeing out a entire forest is evil oh wait we are doing so to feed the growing human population, nevermind. See the logic? I don't know why you would post in a thread arguing against being so biased when you recognize how biased you are and do nothing to lessen the bias I your post.
both sides were evil and good at the same time. the shikis were gone on a full killing rampage mostly for turning the village and less for hunger. The humans became way too brutal and feelingless in the shiki purge, when they could have simply killed them quickly.
Are you kidding me... The villagers were minding their business until a couple of Shiki showed up and began murdering the population. They are parasitic in nature since Humans are their only food source. The humans cannot be judged for their measures of killing the Shiki. They killed them as fast as a wooden stake and hammer could go. When they ran out, they resorted to the sun. In general, the humans are not at fault for defending themselves.
+Chucking Reaper i see your point, but, for example, killing people who were innocents (the folks from the temple and other people) wasn't justified with self-defense... i think tgey got mad at the end
Seeing Sunako care about her fellow Shiki and staying in order to protect them combined with her grief over Chizuru's death is part of why I like her despite the fact that I feel that she shouldn't have come to the village and start turning people into Shiki. If I were a Shiki, I'd gladly follow her and regard her as an angel that just happens to walk in darkness through no fault of her own.
Sounds like you're saying they are in a relationship. A man on his 30's maybe, with a 12 years old (Physically) and they're dating. He must be a loli lover, then.
I honestly don't think a village of Shiki would have lasted in the long run; too many predators grouped together, not enough food in the area, and people would start to notice the disappearances. The village would have been discovered eventually and the Shiki would have been exposed. Tatsumi revealed (at least in the manga) that he didn't think the village would have lasted. An ecosystem must never have higher numbers of predators than prey or it all falls into chaos, which is what he wanted.
The core idea of survival isn't selfish. But when it comes to surviving or doing the right choice, this bitch Sunako clearly was self centered and selfish. I don't see Ritsuko eating her friend even though she was starving to death. She saw with clear eyes and cried about rising. To drink blood was a curse and hurt those around her goes against everything she stood for. Would you bite your friends and families and curse them to the same existence? Would you risk them dying if they didn't rise? Sunako played on the shiki's feelings and brought grief and destruction. The world would have been truly better without her. She caused hundreds of death throughout the years and Seishin should have burned with her. He was a hypocritical pathetic monk that saved no one besides a mass murderer. Oh and he killed someone but then rolled his eyes at his friends who had to sacrifice everything to save the village. He was a coward who ran away from his role and from those who trusted him. They're both selfish and can rot for all I care.
Centrist 922 Learn to read. Ritsuko needed to kill her coworker to survive. Did she do it? NO. She chose to die. Look at Natsuno. He turned into a werewolf but he put himself in danger and chose to fight with everything he had to get rid of the shiki because he could see how wrong their existence was. Did he choose survival? NO. He didn't even let himself drink blood. The whole presentation of the anime was whether you choose yourself and your wishes, or that of the world. Nao failed by killing off her entire family because she was lonely. Sunako failed because with her BS plan they would have eventually ran out of blood and killed off the entire planet or get themselves wiped out anyways when the epidemic gets out of control. Her justification would have gotten her slapped in the face by all those who chose death to protect their loved ones and family. This is not white or black it's picking the right choice no matter how hard the decision is. When dr. Ozaki had to experiment on his wife, many would think that's evil but he's doing it to save the people of his village no matter how hard it is for him. That's literal grey, moron. By the way if I had to choose between surviving or wiping out the entire planet, I wouldn't be picking the latter.
Survival IS selfish if it's at the expense of other people. That is indisputable. It is by the definition of selfish. What you mean to say, is that being selfish is not always wrong.
I actually didn't find this sad I wished death to all of them, Seishin is the biggest traitor in the history of traitors. Why would Sunako be a misunderstood character, she is self-centered, you know someone who kills innocent people over 100+ years just so their "precious" life doesn't fade is something you'd call self-centered. To me the saddest thing about this anime was the fact that everyone had a normal life in the village, they were normal people, in a nice small village, and then you see how they kill each others without any 2nd thought, both the vampires and humans were bad people, although the humans had a much better motive for killing.
Tasorius At least I can differentiate good from bad, what the hell is sad on that? I should feel empathy for a MONSTER that killed countless humans that destroyed countless villages like this, over freaking 100+ years, and yet the only thing that she fears at the end is her life, YOU'VE GOT TO BE FREAKING KIDDING ME MAN! The only sad thing about her is the fact that she is still alive and has probably another village to destroy with Seishin. And well yeah people are different, you can't call someone a sociopath just because he doesn't feel like you, it's almost like calling someone a sociopath because he doesn't love the same person as you, I for myself think it's more sad that there are people in the world that are being killed for nothing, instead of a crying 100+ aged killer vampire, period!
Epsilon Only a sociopath can watch that anime and completely side with the humans, and think that the humans are "good". Vampirism is an illness. The one you should blame is the one who started the chain, those who keep following it are all victims. The humans who died at the beginning of the anime were victims too, but not the humans who were left at the end. The doctor tortured his wife to death and the bearded bastard enjoyed killing. The others sang as they killed the shiki in much more horrible ways than the shiki killed the humans. Some of them killed the humans killed a specific shiki because they did not like him as a human. All of that revealed their true nature. If you cannot see that, you are messed up and lack the empathy a human being should have.
Tasorius There's no point arguing with you, you still need to grow up a little bit. Just going to quote Natsuno.... "Your kind started all of this." The shiki wanted it, they got what they deserve.
While there are definitely shiki I feel deserve some mercy, I also can't deny that the shiki were being killed because they started this whole thing. The humans were just fine until they showed up and began killing them all. I use Nao as my example, because she's one of the only couple of shiki I actually feel sorry for, and my favorite charecter in the anime. As I said, I do feel sorry for her, and I would have probably let her live if she begged me for her life, but I also know that she deserved what she got for killing her entire family. The shiki started the whole thing, and when the humans began to fight back, they didn't want to play anymore... Some shiki I would let go, but overall, I would have to side with the humans. I'm sorry shiki, I know you just wanted to live, but you all got what you deserved...
Ah yes, that is a good point. You're right, she didn't really deserve that, but it was necessary. Just for a minute, let's put ourselves in Dr. Ozaki's shoes. The entire village was being killed by what she had become. I understand he probably could have experimented with any other shiki, and I know I would never have the balls to do what he did. However, the village was running out of time, and if he didn't find out how to take care of the shiki then and there, he'd risk maybe a couple of days the shiki would have to kill them all. Again, you are correct that she didn't deserve that, but it was the only way they could learn how to survive.
DarkPurpleDude Right? I think a LOT of people don't understand that it's the instint to live that drove him to do that. He THINKS he's doing the right thing just like how the Shiki THINK they're doing the wrong thing. At the end of the day it just shows that the will to live is very strong. For any being.
iBeFloe thinking you are doing something that is right does not make it wrong also the shiki know they are doing something wrong but if they don't their families are murdered
darkness6110 Well 6110, after thinking about it for quite some time, and discussing the matter with some other people on this website, I finally realize I don't know who to side with. Reason tells me that the shiki had already died, so they no longer have the right to live, but my emotions tell me that the shiki are still living beings like you and me. My reason and emotions completely contradict each other, making it hard for me to come up with a decision. The only thing I do know from all this is my belief that it would have been better if the shiki never existed in the first place. Sunako wouldn't have to kill all of those people, Nao would still be there with her family, and in the point you first brought up, Ozaki's wife wouldn't have to have gotten that stake in her chest.
Piss off with the moralism, dude... Even if I was someone that was somewhat neutral towards both humans and Shiki but also became pro-human in a sense that I thought they were righteously defending themselves from a bunch of hostile invaders in my childhood and maybe early teenager years, I am now beyond humanity's any *superior* argument as humanity has all the resources, nations and militaries and Shiki family we have seen throughout the series DEFINITELY had nothing that could be called or even imagined as anywhere nearly and relatively "superior" compared to all the things that humanity has under their arsenal, which includes most of the world and that alone would become a great DISADVANTAGE for the both races of Shiki and Jinro alike... Especially accurate when you think about it from the side of original Shiki family that moved into Sotoba and realize that they cannot escape or tactically fall-back into anywhere during the *what-if* scenarios which where chasing or soughting a co-existence on the table with a unfairly superior race that is humanity, if misunderstandings became huger and grew out of their control and it resulted in a full-fledged war no matter what or they had to escape due to other reasons which I do not think I have to name or break it down to you based on what I mentioned in this essay-like paragraph, after all.
I have to feel sorry for the shiki not to forget that there "urge" is equivalent to our urge to breathe, you just cant stop. also they hoped for their victims to rise. i see the line of guilt and innocence being blured in this series.
I thought about this and this is how I'd try to maintain my moral compass if I became a Shiki. The biggest problem would be finding comrades/friends and feeding without losing your conscience. I wouldn't starve like Ritsuko - that is practically impossible because you need blood for survival. So the ideas I came up with are: I'd feed on people who DESPERATELY want to extend their lifespans somehow - people suffering from terminal illnesses, etc who want to live longer to be with their families or take care of unfinished business. Of course, this would be consensual. And they may not have a chance to rise, so it has to be explained to them. Another method of feeding I'd rather enjoy is killing people who torment others - like thugs or criminals-people with no remorse who continue to live as parasites to society. Now this may quickly develop into a Death Note situation so you'll have to have control over your rage and impulses. As cruel as it is, some people only know how to live by robbing others of happiness and their victims will have to go through hell to get justice, if that's even possible. Humans can't live on without feeling sinful or guilty if they kill their tormentors, but Shiki can; since that's how they thrive. If I wanted friends, I'd try to establish relationships with pre-existing Shiki or those whom I consensually created. Then make our own "village" so that our kind can live supporting each other, instead of robbing human settlements.
There was no light and dark side, no good or bad, only grey. It all depended on who you sympathized with more. The Shiki did what they did to survive and so did the humans. What’s interesting however, is that in the end only one side actually enjoyed and killed for fun and cruelly and that was the humans. The shiki never enjoyed killing, they wanted everyone they fed from to possibly live.
Does everyone forget the shiki can't survive without blood. Sunako wasn't turned into a shiki of her own will she had no choice in the matter. At that age yea I wouldn't want to kill myself because some monster came out of nowhere and turned me into something I'm not. I agree she didn't need to come into their village and start turning random people into shiki, but they weren't exactly turned of their own will either. Both sides are fighting for survival ( some more brutal than others ), but when you think about it they're fighting for the same thing. Despite your opinion I do feel sorry for the shiki, and even worse for the humans because they became the very thing they were fighting against. Monsters
They started this and even if they needed blood, it did not give them the right to kill or turn others into shiki as well. As they dined, the villagers were in grief. They didn't do anything to them till the truth came out. That enraged the villagers especially after the fact that all this time, they were the cause of so many deaths.
Unfortunately Sunako and her gang got greedy. They didn't just want blood but the entire town as well and the people as food. You wanna be someone else's dinner?! Think about it. How long do you think her mother would last and how do you she would last? In that episode, one shiki even killed his granddaughter and grandson! That is truly monstrous!
I must say, you got me there. I suppose that the villagers got caught up in the moment of anger, revenge, superstitious, and all sorts of negative emotions to have thought it through. But They were ignorant. I don't think they were too aware of the strategic force behind the shikis. Viewers are able to judge the humans so harshly because we've been exposed to the human side of shikis. I see a lot of people say "I use to hate the shikis but i felt sorry for them after they got hunted"
It feels really sad to hear that from you. At first I though you were more than that but I guess I was just wrong. There is nothing more for us to talk about, so goodbye.
"responsible for protecting the whole village?" As a resident of the village, and maybe as a human being in general maybe? I hated him for that too, but he had to do it, the least he could have done is apologized so she wouldn't be so clueless.
@@treehann I finished Death Note first. I was looking for something similar and found it. I am somewhat disturbed by blood but the story seemed interesting. And these 2 animes are perfect! They are a bit haunting like. They make you question your thoughts and how humanity or human nature is awful. Even the Shikis experienced emotions which really made you feel pity and anger for both in some way.
This is a sad moment but I think the 2 saddest moments were Tohru crying as he devoured Natsuno and the scene where Sunako and Seishin were in the basement and Sunako was crying saying that the only reason she did the things she did was because she didn't want to die. She really is a misunderstood character.
Personally, I always thought that the saddest moment in the anime was the last 8 minutes of episode 20.5. I don't know why I feel so sorry for Nao, since she murdered her in laws, along with her son and husband. Perhaps it's because she just wanted to be with her family, and now will never be able to, in this life or the next. Maybe it's because of how much she regrets killing her family. Either way, Nao was probably the only reason I started feeling for the shiki at all. If it wasn't for her, I most likely wouldn't care.
Oh yeah Nao's death an despair was up there to. It mentally disturbed me watching them tied up and being exposed to the sunlight. I also felt really bad for Ozaki, Sunako and Tohru.
Yeah. It saddens me that any shiki I felt bad for ended up dying (well, Sunako didn't die, though I'm not 100% sure if I feel bad for her yet). Some shiki I don't care about, like Masao (in fact, I hated him), but it's shiki like Nao and Tohru that I think need a hug.
I hated Megumi worse than Masao but yes, Nao, Tohru and Natsuno should have survived. I'm glad Sunako and Seishin did at least. Sunako was just like the others. She didn't like having to kill but she had to in order to survive. She probably didn't show as much reluctants and grief at that point because she's been a Shiki for 80 years and accepting the fact and not wallowing in self hatred for living is something she managed to due though towards the end she expressed her sadness.
Misaka Imouto For Sunako, I'm still weighing the scales on whether I feel for her or not. Seishin is my 2nd favorite character, my 1st being Nao. With him able to be with the shiki as a human, I wondered if coexistence could have been an option. Natsuno literally wanted to die and blew himself up, so I don't really feel for him. At least he got what he wanted (well, some of it, but he also wanted all the shiki dead, so...) Don't get me wrong, Megumi deserves to rot in Hell, but character wise, she was ok, which is the only thing that keeps me from completely hating her. I was kinda surprised that anyone could hate a character more than Masao. I just wanted to rip him in half. He's a little whiney baby that gets a kick out of trying to make others feel bad. Tohru and Nao, if I ever saw them crying because of what they did, I'd go up and hug them... well, maybe I'd ask them to not bite my neck first, I would prefer if I could stay alive as a human.
Agreed. Ozaki didn't want to torture his wife but she is now shiki and will be a threat to others, thus he had to find out how to fight and kill them and sadly his wife was the only available one there. Even if the village burned down, they can rebuild it and hopefully their lives as well.
No, most of the residents died and the ENTIRE AREA burned down there is no rebuilding it. And they brought that upon themselves by going mad and giving into mass hysteria
The good shikis just looked the other way and nevertheless participated in the killing of even children. The good shiki was Ritsuko because she refused to kill even as her best friend was thrown to her for food. She became a nurse to help people not to kill them. She never forgot that even as a shikis. Shikis were taught to kill by Tatsumi who enjoyed torturing others. Nao killed even her sister-in-law and her family out of jealousy.
The shikis were the ones who started this mess. Killing people night after night. If that wasn't enough they planned to take over the village and make slaves out of them. That really was the last straw and that's why the humans went ballistic in killing them.
Actually, it's implied that Shiki don't need to drain their victims dry in order to feed, but from what it seems, becoming a Shiki seems to affect your inhibitions in some way. It MIGHT be possible, but Sanuko handled so poorly, it's no wonder it fell apart.
+Waranger5 Oh. I wonder what a hybrid of all three would be like. What would they feed on? What would be their name? What would be their weaknesses? Could you kill them? If so, what would it take to kill them? Would they have any type of supernatural abilities? Would they survive the purge in the village? So many questions!
+Waranger5 Maybe, Coz they're a hybrid of 3 different creatures, they would have three "lives". And, in order to kill them the first time, you had to shoot them specifically in the center of the forehead with a singular silver bullet blessed by a holy priest. Then, in order to end their second life, you had to stab them with a wooden stake, LEAVE THE STAKE IN THEM, then slice off their head, and limbs, and burn them with fire created from specifically golfer wood (IN THAT EXACT ORDER WITH THOSE EXACT SPECIFICATIONS). And finally, in order to end their 3rd life, after they have resurrected from their 2nd life, all you have to do is behead them. But, killing a hybrid and ending either of their lives would be very difficult, since their flesh, organs, and muscles have hyper elasticity, and every bone in their body was 10x harder than diamond. Let's also make their bones be completely hollow and light, enabling the hybrids to move quickly and nimbly. And they will have accelerated healing.
To put this in an idea that I can comprehend I tend to compare it to scenarios from WWII, you feel sorry for the Russians during that start because of what the Germans are inflicting upon them, but then the spectrum gets flipped and you start feeling sorry for the Germans because the Russians are doing much worse things, but then you take a step back and see that if it wasn't for the Germans starting the whole thing, this wouldn't have happened, this scenario can be applied to this show here.
Newell Joseph Germany didn't start everything, it all started with the assassination of archduke Ferdinand. The two situations are not comparable, and also filled with propaganda.
I was talking about the actions of Nazi Germany and there involvement during WWII I was not stating historical facts, I was making a comparison to the actions during the war as compared to the actions in the series. Read my statement more carefully and you'll see that I'm only talking about the Germans fighting the Russians during World War II not the whole genesis of historical events.
NeonNuki He was referring to the German/Soviet conflict the second World War, not the start of WWI. I think it's a decent analogy. Of course the situations don't line-up perfectly, but it highlights the main conflict. The Germans struck the USSR first, and the Soviet soldiers committed a number of atrocities in formerly occupied German territories.
You know, Durarara is kinda similar in story telling of this anime, thought the style and topic are different, these both are really good, and similar!
If anything the deaths of the shiki should be advocated, that must be a really horrible exsistance to depend on the death of people just to stay alive.
Tell that to humanity as a whole that has been doing that to itself since the beginning of time. Making what the vampires did seem like a trivial matter that's hardly worth mentioning.
Is just an anime show, not real life. I am glad that REAL Vampires are not real (SO FAR, APPARENTLY)for they could add even more brutality to our already violent human world.
I agree with you on the skeechy part! Besides Tohru told Natsuno that it just about getting blood to feed! It was also their predatory instinct that made attack people. It was not enough for them to find food but also to satisfy that need to unleash their animal instincts!
OK, now I'm really confused. Should we feel sorry for the shiki who are being brutally killed by the humans, or cheer for the humans fighting for survival? I was pro-shiki, but now that girl seemed psychotic. "This village is almost dead." Who the hell says that?!
Watch the first part of anime. When those fuckers are acting so smug, when they're slowly invading and felling "oh so superior". And then watch again them crying and pleading for mercy when suddelny odds are against them. I had no problem with chosing sides.
Tasorius Not really, this anime really wasnt black and white. At the start of it vampires seemed to be evil creatures but as the story progressed we find out that the humans are as bad if not worse than the vampires. This is one of the most grey animes that I have seen, an aspect that I definetly enjoyed.
Tasorius No. The humans were just mad because you know. The vampires did kill half of their loved ones and then planned on killing them next. Not saying the humans were in the right though. This anime just showed what had to be done for survival. Vampires drank human blood to live, humans killed vampires so they wouldn't die. Some of the humans even killed the vampires in humane ways
Dexter Perry It's like they have an illness that strengthen their instincts, and makes them unable to resist killing humans. Megumi's death for example, showed what the humans who were left had become.
" visiting them constantly" Well yeah, a bitch has got to eat. "she had just risen" I don't know how accurate that is, but I'll concede. "The spread is not usually exponential." That brings up a good point.
