The conclusion of this video is spot on. The technique used is the ultimate deciding factor in the success of putting out a prop, and having a fancier or more durable fire blanket will not make up for a bad extinguishing technique, and we see it here in this video. For example, when you put the soaked poi out with the duvetyne, what happened was the fuel was squeezed out of the wicks and through the material. This combined with the high temperature and remaining flame pouring outside of the blanket ignited the fuel and turned the blanket into a big wick. I have also seen this happen with matrix blankets as well, and rest assured it would have happened with both towels if both were squeezed sufficiently. Another example: the technique being used for the dragonstaff is likely to result in dangerous mishaps like we saw in this video. You even pinpointed the reason why, which is that the center spoke combined with the other four create a large air pocket for the flame to feed off of and survive much longer than it would otherwise be able to. It is technically possible to use this technique and succeed, but the margin for error is very low and the consequences for failure are higher than I would be comfortable with. The way that I put out a dragon staff is to put out each wick individually starting with the big center wick positioned below the four spokes, cupping it in the blanket with both hands. (This assumes proper staff setup, with the spokes mounted an appropriate distance away from the center wick to allow this to be done safely.) The remaining wicks are to be put out individually in the same manner. This, in my opinion, is the only safe way to put out a dragon staff. I don’t mean this to be overly critical of your methods, as I understand dragonstaff isn’t your main prop, and I’ve personally seen this method being taught in safety workshops at festivals, but I don’t believe that it’s a good method, especially if you have to teach it in an afternoon to a non professional at a festival. Just seems like a disaster waiting to happen. All that being said, the conclusion was exactly what people need to know. At the end of the day the material of the blanket has little to do with it’s performance in putting out the props. I have actually used a vest that I was wearing to put out props in a pinch, and it worked well because 1. it was made of thick cotton denim, 2. I cut off oxygen to the flame, and 3. I didn’t apply pressure to the wicks. The main differentiating factors with each of these options is the degree to which they are easy to maintain or a complete pain in the ass. With this in mind, the matrix blanket wins easily, due to the fact that it can be easily washed and requires zero preparation to work properly.
I'm not going to say the material doesn't matter at all (based upon my tests last month, I would never attempt this with a blanket option that was made of polyester), but clearly technique is far more important. As is acting quickly and decisively when fires get out of control. Agreed on the Matrix blanket being the winner here! It dawns on me now that soaking it is actually probably the most unstoppable option of all! 😉
Question: it looks like the duvetyne used in the tests had holes in it. If so, recommend you repeat the tests with a new duvetyne to have a fair test vs the other materials. It looks like the issues with the duvetyne could be attributed to compromised material. Nonetheless, great video and well worth the time to watch
For my fire troupe, the most important use cases are 1. putting out a performer who has tangled in their lit prop and 2. putting out five pairs of fire fans as fast as possible. For both, the cooling factor of the wet towel increases usefulness significantly. The Matrix blanket is the nicest for the safeties to use, though, by far.
Alright - First Thank you @Drex for getting this convo going and doing some pretty well thought out tests. There are a couple of challenges missing, but that's to be expected on a first pass. The clear ones for me would be: 1 - cost vs overall score. 2 - availability. 3 - multi-prop put out - such as multiple performers/prop coming on/off stage with still burning props. It changes things dramatically. That said - Again, thank you @Drex for taking it on. I've been working on setting up a similar test cases and ya done beat me to it. Good on you for doing it - nothing is ever perfect and I look forward to the discussion that this will certainly generate. Disclaimers: I am not sponsored by any org. I have some inherent bias as I came up over a decade ago starting with damp towels as both a performer in a large troupe with a big fire aesthetic and fire breather.
Sure thing--like I said, I welcome the discourse. It's essential to this process. 1. Each of the towels was a bargain--bin beach towel that cost $10 apiece. I didn't pay for this duvetyne as it was from Wildfire but I'm seeing them listed for sale online for $15-20 depending upon the vendor. The Matrix blankets start at $60. If we go with an overall rating here of pass minus fail for total score, the dry towel comes out a 3, wet towel a 4, duvetyne a 2, and Matrix a 5 (I'm counting both a success and failure for the final test). So dividing that by price for a cost/benefit we find the dry towel gets a score of 0.3, wet towel 0.4, duvetyne 0.1, and Matrix 0.1 as well. The only thing I'd add to that picture is the price of replacing the blanket over time. I can easily see replacing a towel 6 times in the same span of time I'd go through a single Matrix blanket. Again, my takeaway is that the benefits as well as cost/benefits of duvetyne have been dramatically exaggerated. 2. Clearly you can get a beach towel at any department store (I got mine just up the street from me!). There are several retailers offering duvetyne online but most seem to be doing it by roll rather than individual blankets. I can find a handful of fire vendors offering them for sale online whereas Matrix is the only current vendor for these nomex blankets. I would put the Matrix blankets and duvys about on par in terms of availability. 3. It does...I think we got a taste of that with the dragon staff being put out but repeated exposure to fuel and everything can be a factor here. I figured the average viewer was going to be a casual spinner who'd be involved in spin jams and maybe an occasional fire festival. I see this more as a performance scenario as in most spin jams people prefer to spin until they go out and there are so many specific performance scenarios I very deliberately didn't attempt to get into them here. Perhaps a good test for a follow-up? Awesome! Can't wait to see your results, too. :)
@@DrexFactor I agree with most of what you said - I have some personal preferences naturally but if ya came to my jams you'd see the matrix blanket. Time will tell on if it will last 6x as long as a Duv but it's certainly easy to maintain and if you've got the money for it great, if not as you've shown damp towel, even dry tower will get it done to some degree. Everything is situational and there's always exceptions. I'll be setting up a laser thermo and simulating a small troupe performance to see how hot both the Matrix blankets get vs the wrung out towel. Also taking other suggestions. Thanks again for what you're doing @Drex - Much appreciation. Cheers PSA: See how Drex and Mufasa did NOT put their face OVER the BURNING prop they were putting out - do that... waaay to many people lean over the prop as they put it out....
Water is seriouslly underrated. Wet towels ftw. Also super easy to pick up from any shop and soak in water and put in a plastic bag before a gig incase you accidently left your towel at home!
@@DrexFactor Sure you have to put them in a plastic bag till your home and can hang them up, or just throw them straight in the washing machine. But still takes less than 30 secs. Also, they're cheap and easy to replace if need be.
Thanks, that was very interesting. I thought that trying to extinguish a prop with a dry towel would set the towel in fire, what shows how much I don't know about fire.
A cowhide leather coat or jacket will put almost any fire out and because it does not pass any air through the leather, it will not soak up fuel and catch alight on the other side. For practice burns, we just used the leather biker jackets that we were wearing that day, rather than have to worry about bringing blankets along and it never did them any harm. A heavy denim jacket is also very effective and unlike a cotton towel, it does not need to be wet. Until I read your comment, I was starting to think that we were crazy. 😃 PS, I still remember the way that guys reacted when my girlfriend did leg wraps wearing cowhide leather jeans. It was so funny at the time.
Also for anyone looking to use a dry towel as a backup (or primary): make SURE it's a tight weave! Not all towels are built alike! Towels have the advantage that they are very pliable and can conform to odd shapes easily. But the downside is air (specifically oxygen) passing through the material. And the big disadvantage of a dry towel (and apparently the duvetyne!) is that once they get enough fuel on them they themselves become a wick. There are of course other obvious advantages and disadvantages of towels but they are more obvious (price and accessibility, needing to be replaced more often, etc). So after watching this video I would consider a simple towel more useful than I would have considered before. The main uses I see for them are for fire breathers (because of the softness/pliability and also being available in smaller sizes) and possibly for a special use large/odd prop. I was certainly surprised as how poorly the duvy did! I think they garnered favor as a simple and easy alternative to a damp towel. But it is clear from this that they have their limits and are not suitable for larger fires or fires with lots of fuel. They don't really seem to be much better than a dry towel in this regards (just more durable). But that durability is offset with the degradation of their fire retardant qualities over time. So overall I don't see any real advantage of these over a simple Walmart towel. As to the Matrix blankets I use them all the time due to their portability, durability, etc. The only real downsides to them are that they are stiffer than other blankets and thus don't conform as well which can let air pass under them. But the newer versions are quilted which helps a lot. The only real downside is the price. But they really only cost about the same as a decent fire prop so once you've got a prop or two under your belt this a no-brainer investment. And if you're super-poor just get some of your fellow flowmies to all go in on getting a good one so that your group as a whole has one. Trust me you will NEVER regret the money spent on having one of these.
"I was certainly surprised as how poorly the duvy did! ... But that durability is offset with the degradation of their fire retardant qualities over time. So overall I don't see any real advantage of these over a simple Walmart towel." Agreed 100%. I was absolutely shocked that the wet towel out-performed the duvetyne. At the same time, I realized in retrospect that it actually does make a bit of sense because duvetyne wasn't created specifically to put out fires. It's meant to slow their progress in crowded venues to give people time to escape. As such, I think we've applied them to something they weren't actually designed for to our collective detriment. Also agreed with your thoughts on the Matrix blankets! I've heard of some people (especially performers) finding them a poor fit for many more specific applications that require more flexible blankets. I did find them a bit of a challenge for the dragon staff test (clearly) but still think they're worth the money. If you're just starting out, though, there's no shame in using a wet towel until you're ready to commit to something more durable.
@@DrexFactor In the case of that test, the Duvetyne just became a wick. You mentioned safety. With that newly lit and fuel soaked prop, it would have been far safer to stand it in the corner until the fuel burnt down to the normal level for putting it out. The simplest and least expensive safety blanket is a sturdy cotton towel, soaked in a strong solution of borax and dried out. If during use, it gets soaked with water or filthy dirty, It can be machine washed at any temperature, dried and retreated as often as you like. In Australia and parts of Africa, where blankets are used to beat grass fires out, the guys use the borax solution on the blankets and also on their cotton and denim clothing.
With mention of evaluating them as comfort blankets I was expecting some kind of cuddle test, and for fiberglass blankets to be evaluated. Mostly as vindication to a friend who drunkenly cuddled up with a fiberglass fire blanket only to awake very itchy and uncomfortable the next day. But in seriousness I'm curious how a fiberglass fire blanket would compare.
I did consider adding a fiberglass blanket to this test but as it was I was struggling to get all this content in under the 15 minute limit I have on other platforms. It got the axe ultimately because near as I could tell they are neither more accessible nor more effective than the other options I was already testing so I wasn't sure what unique value add they'd be bringing to the table. You're now the second person to ask me about them in response to this video, though, so perhaps a follow-up test is in order?
@@DrexFactor my impression of them is that they aren't for the regular use like the towels but are more an emergency item coming in much larger sizes that can wrap around a full body, likely intended for full human extinguishing in a worst case accident also why my friend was likely able to make the bad decision to wrap himself in one and go to sleep.
