I totally agree! This is the best DIY boat chan by far! I love Andy fm Boatworks, but IMO, Mads' vlogs are slick, well edited, and for me, a perfect mix of chat and demonstration. I honestly think that the boating community hasn't discovered this Chan yet. Mads doesn't use cheezy "clickbait" tactics to suck in viewers. It doesn't matter to me, because I already watch and support him, but I appreciate that fact that Sail Life is an honest, high quality refit! Mads is laborious and he doesn't cut corners... sometimes to a fault! LOL. I have been freaking out over this cabin sole refit for a year!!! ... and Mads has been so calm and nonchalant about it. Turns out, his solution is pretty dang spiffy! lol. /rant. Anyway @David Scholl, you are spot on! Mads should be above 100k by now. But I admire his Skandi ethics and skills. When I get my boat, he will be my role model. When I get lazy or frustrated and want to cut corners, I will ask myself: What Would Mads Do?
Have a word with the guy who did your calculations before making it 9mm thick.Its an old fallacy that adding more will make it stronger; if you add strength to the wrong bit it can move stress points and actually make it weaker by putting stress into somewhere that at the moment has little stress.
Non-compressible Filler in Rudder 1) I think about your project from time to time, and wonder how you will interface the SS rudder shaft and welded "fins" with the outer fiberglass shell of the rudder. If the filler/interface is foam, the foam will be compressible and in a short period of time it will permanently deform, and the SS parts will be loose inside the fiberglass rudder shell. Maybe that is why the original rudder had a cement-like filler inside - it wasn't compressible and deformable. I just can't imagine it working for very long with a foam filler! 2) Okay, this next suggestion may sound a little odd, but I think it will work well for you. If you insert and seal an air/plumbing fitting inside a hole you drilled in a structural rib, and seal the other side of the hole, you can pull a vacuum inside the wet rib. The moisture inside would evaporate very quickly under vacuum. If you have an IR thermometer, you will see the temperature of the rib drop significantly below ambient until the water is completely evaporated. You will know it is completely dry internally when the rib returns to ambient temperature while still under vacuum. Then, since you already have the vacuum pump connected, drill a shallow hole X distance away, insert a fitting, and vacuum infuse the dry internal wood with epoxy (or GIT-Rot). This would be a very interesting experiment with potentially significant gain and very little downside risk. ( I am not a shipwright, just an engineer with a fresh-eyes perspective. Oh , and I restored an old 1945 wooden sailboat a few decades ago, and really respect the fine work you are doing.)
I find this a truely amazing solution: getting rid of the moisture, reinforce the ex-plywood to new strength, seal it against any future moisture so that you can sleep tight. By the way, why should you put up with a solution that you know isn't 100% correct like leaving the moisture in the floors? Your boat may easily last much longer than 30 years if you do a proper job now !
Mads, you can glue those foam sheets together and then hot wire cut the core to the exact shape. The cutter's are super easy and relatively inexpensive to make and chances are you and Cement Boat guy have most of the pricey bits already.
So stoked just found your Channel! I have something to say regarding your video from a LONG time back about Failed Atlantic Crossing due to debilitating seasickness. I am not one to comment much but felt I had to share some advice that changed my sailing life. I grew up sailing and always suffered seasickness so bad I thought I would die, i hoped I would sometimes. People that don't get it don't realise how terrible it is. I raced around the South African and Mozambique coastlines (3 to 5 day races) as a teen until early 20s and suffered terribly from seasickness to the point of quitting sailing entirely. Then after a few years I decided to follow my dream and cross the Atlantic from South Africa to Caribbean on my tiny 8m yacht that I rebuilt. I would not have done this had I not discovered what I believe to be the best seasickness medication on the market. I tested it on a 4 day delivery on the South African coast and it changed the whole game. I was cooking inside, navigating inside, hell we even drank some beers and I felt great! It is called Stugeron, you may have heard of it. I have tried everything for seasickness from other pills, to seabands, to things behind the ears, ginger, everything. It's all bullsh*t. Stugeron my friend. It is very important as to how you take it. NEVER take it only after you start feeling sick. I believe the best results come from taking it 16 hours before departure, then every 8 hours on the dot. So you have essentially had it in your system for 16 hours and have had 2 doses before you leave. And keep taking it every single 8 hours. I took it for 7 days when I left Cape Town to St Helena and went through the roughest storm of my life, I thought we might not make it. However the confidence this medication gave me was unreal. After we got to the trade winds I stopped taking it and I was perfect. I took it before every long passage and it was a game changer. It also never made me tired or drowsy (apparently it does to some people). But as anyone who has truly suffered from seasickness would agree that feeling a little sleepy is better than feeling delirious with puke and poop coming out both ends with the mere smell of a diesel engine setting you off. Honestly. BUT you must take it at least 16 hours before departure. I rekindled my love of sailing with this medication. If I know I am going on a day race tomorrow I start taking it today so that in those 6 hours at sea I know I will be fine and happy. Haha this is not an advertisement. I hope you found something that helps already or that maybe that was a once off ocurance of seasickness, but I just saw that clip and felt I had to share this with you. It really changed my entire outlook and I felt 'set free' you know. It gave me the confidence to cross the ocean as the captain on my own boat. Cheers mate keep the videos coming we are all loving it!! Raymond Ninow
Please remember to use a pickle and passivate stainless cleaner on the rudder as carbon steel tools have contaminated the surface with lots of iron particles which will initiate crevice and pit sites. Not what you want on that spiffy new rudder 👍
Hi Madds I’m with a few of the comments ,use your pvc foam but fill the voids with a high density polyurethane foam. You don’t want voids nor the internal stainless to work itself loose. Foam will stiffen the rudder. Broken rudders are the major reason to abandon yachts. Too late but I would have built all stainless rudder. Frame it to the rudder stock like an aircraft wing and skin it with stainless. Having fun watching your fun.
If laying up sheets one at a time perhaps the vacuum bag could come out again and be used to ensure good contact against the inside of the shell, similar to laying up sheets of veneer against a caul.
@@SailLife You definitely should vacuum those sheets in. Waay better overall coherence than weighted-only, and You already got the form with a flange to airtight it with butyl. And this fiddlesticky additional layup for slight mistakes is perfectly normal, it is Your first formbuild, isn't it?
Exactly my thoughts. Pop it back into mold and vaccuum bag the foam down . Also, dependent on epoxy during times you should be able to lay up multiple layers at one time. Just be aware of how much the foam is compressing and dont use maximum vaccuum if it is compressing too much.
Would anything speak against a extra weld on metal flange on the bottom part of the rudderpost? So you could have something similiar as for the upper part to seal against. The flange could be made from two half-ring pieces welded on the rudderpost.
Rewatched the old rudder video. The lower flange was out side but flush with the glass of the rudder. At 6 min you can see a chunk of removed glass is thick inside the flange and paper thin outside. But the flanges fit in the new shell, so never mind.
hey Mads, about stiffening up the structural members: if you make them too stiff you might be creating pinch points: the hull is going to flex the same amount as before, if your struts are too stiff it might stress the adjacent material too much so maybe it would be good to aim at the design stiffness instead of adding that little bit extra. Something to think about.
Mads, While you are working on the interior, consider adhering the cabin roof beams to the cabin sides. You could epoxy u-shaped wooded supports under them. It would make the cabin roof much stronger. Ken.
Mads it is more then the “principal” it is pride. You have put in so much work on Athena i wouldn’t fault you for starting over on the rudder. No one knows how many times Noah rebuilt his rudder. But he made sure it was right.
I think the direction you’re taking with the foam is good. As for sealing that lower rudder post, I like the idea of building up the fiberglass, and sealing against that. It’s free, and you can do it yourself. That can potentially offer you more surface area for sealing. Have you considered drilling big holes (3+ inches) in those big plates? That would lighten things up a lot, and give you more surface area for whatever bonding agent you use.
I'm way too late to have a meaningful comment, but I'm glad that you have decided to gut the interior and re-design it. I've been working through all your videos, and must say that I'm not crazy about the interior design and finish of your boat. This will be a chance to get away from the bulkheads fitted halfway across the port lights port and starboard. It seems the original build quality of the Warrior was poor, but if this was the original design, that left a lot to be desired too. I'm sure you are going to end up with a much nicer and stronger boat at the end of all this. Keep it up!
I admire your work mads, and attention to detail, and I find your videos very illuminating as I am myself rebuilding an old wooden hulled clinker built yacht, and understand why you are so dedicated to do the job right. Keep up the good work!
I would use the 20 mm foam but put a number of long cuts across it without cutting all the way through. This would allow it to bend to the shape and when you lay it up in a bed of expose filler it will fill the channels that you have cut to hold its shape. It will save you time filling the rudder cavity with possible two layers of 10 mm.
Hi I'm a follower of yours on RU-vid, I always look forward to seeing your weekly videos on Sunday at the last minute, I do not know English but I really like what you are doing with the professionalism and meticulousness of the restoration work. I got in touch because I would like you to answer a question, I am restoring a Ro 300 from the year 2000 of Ronáutica Yachs is a sailboat based on the Epic Fortuna 9, I have disassembled the rudder blade and I have detected that it is full of water , tonight I have let it empty by making a hole with an 8 mm drill on the top and the bottom of the 5mm blade has been empty and today I will start the process of fresh water inside it for two or three times Well then, my intention is after this, let it dry and fill it with epoxy polyurethane foam, since I can not avoid that water enters the blade, at least avoid that a lot of water, the question is what material do you advise me and provider, and also if I am doing it correctly I accept advice. Best regards, I hope that both you and Anna will be very happy. Kisses..!!
My 30 year old rudder (S&S 36) was rebuilt last month by the guys at NewRudders.com in North Central Florida (Fedex'd both ways for $300). They have been rebuilding rudders for 20+ years and complete dozens of them each month. It's all they do: rebuild rudders. They use a poured in place foam which they say is rated at 24 pounds per square foot which is super dense. My old rudder's foam core was probably 5 pound foam. They stripped the post and frame out of the old rudder and determined it was very solid and robust. The rest of the old rudder was scrapped as trash. They laid it into a mold and poured the 24# foam. When it set up they wrapped the new shape in fiberglass with a gelcoat cover ready for barrier coating and bottom paint. That's the Cliff Notes version of their process. I too have concerns about layering foam board inside your new rudder molds.
Mads, the rudder core. You might have seen it already, but I used Sicomin Expanding Epoxy foam (about £150, my rudder is a bit smaller) when I stuck the two halves of my rudder back together. (Video is the April 2018 one, check from about 7 minutes in - so one year ago! - doesn't time fly when you don't have a rudder to fix). I did loads of tests, including mocking up a 'see through' rudder, as I was worried that the foam would expand too fiercely - but it was fine as it is a low pressure expanding type. I stuck both halves of the rudder together and filled in the foam at the same time. To be honest, this was probably the most straightforward part of the job. I really wish I had made a mould as you have done. As for sealing the stock - I just used loads of 404. Good luck, I look forward to seeing what you do. Paul.
Just had two rudders rebuilt with the Sicomin epoxy expanding foam. Rock solid, conforms to every corner, easy to shape and far from $2000... Just another DIY guy here so maybe I'm wrong, but I would totally go for that epoxy foam given the somewhat complicate voids you have to fill.
Paul, you did it right, other than not making a mold first ;) Amazing job and a great you tube series. Looks like you might possibly be out-Madsing Mads himself here on your rudder work.
Hi Paul :) I tried using Google to find a place to purchase the foam you used. I wasn't able to find it so I priced out the foaming epoxy using stuff from west system. Yikes ;) Turns out there is a reseller of the foam you used in Germany. D'oh! I'd love to have a little Skype session with you to learn about your experience with the foam if you're up for that :) drop me an email with your Skype username at saildotlife@gmail.com :)
Just about sailing - I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again - your rudder video was a highlight of 2018, definitely in Mads’ class (possibly more engaging) - great job.
Thicker foam and hot stretched piano wire to remove excess. Proven in making model r/c airplane wings for almost half a century. Use rudder glass to make template ribs, quite simple process.
Cut Aluminum plates to match the bottom of the boat and TIG weld them across the top enclosing the framework. Then drill four holes crosswise use lad bolts and drive into plywood, you can also through bolt machine bolts as well you can then inject epoxy on three sides if you like for good measure.
Although it would be nice to CNC route large bits, you could fill in layers to get close leaving the sloped area to sort out. Then if you make a guide board to lay over the rudder half with holes and edges to guide a router to level the sloped bit to half the flat stainless thickness. The hard way would be to make rib sections that match the interior and stainless and use the small CNC to make a few hundred stacking them up. Modified would be to use rib bits where the flats are not and the router in the sections with flat panels using layers. You will need to work out clamping, either with sandbags or perhaps the rudder shaft can be supported and the mold halves used with clamps (do coat with release if you do). One I haven't tried would be to inbed a feeder tube near the shaft, place back into the mold haves and vacuum bag the whole assembly the vacuum infuse the epoxy to fill all voids. Should ask if anyone has done it and get a full run down. It's no time to fail missing some important bit and having to start again.
CNC, 3D scan, collaboration? Use that CNC table in that nice shop of yours to cut foam blocks for your core. Super spiffy!! Just some cad work and a scan. Im sure that someone in the RU-vid community in Europe would like to give it a go fo a few views likes and subs.
One of the things about your channel is the information and the reasoning behind your choices you provide. At this point I am sorry you missed the opprtunity to inform us, why polyurethane foam in rudder is a bad idea. This would beinformative.
Hi, build up a big block of foam sheets with the steel profile parted in two halves then hot wire the profile for the outside to fit inside your skins. You can get the profile from ply ribs in two stages.
I'm glad your mind is at ease about reinforcing the existing fiberglas. Ripping out the floors seemed unnecessary to me and a lot of wasted time and material.
Mads - I have used that foam before (my version was made by Airex). I heated it a little in a warm box (made from scrap ply with a room heater supplying warm air) and it then becomes flexible and will conform to any shape. Just put weights on top. Once it cools it will hold shape and can be glued in place, then faired off across the centre line of the rudder shells.
Mads, I would fit the thin sheets into the curved section in layers and then you have the ability to level the inside surface to match the plates on the shaft using the edges of the form as a guide. Sort of like leveling concrete in a form. Best wishes for which ever way you decide to go and give our best to Ava. Have a great week.
Such great videos Mads, your obvious love for learning new trades and being so upfront about problems and fixes is refreshing. Wish you the best of luck with both Athena and Ava. I'll probably still be here watching when she's ready to sail :)
Although 5200 (a polyurethane compound) is an excellent sealant, I would be careful what you use it on. If the item being sealed is never going to need resealing or disassembly, then it is good. However, if disassembly is ever required, the 5200 will bond to fiberglass such that taking if apart is needed, the 5200 will literally tear the glass laminate from whatever it is adhering to. An alternative compound that gives an excellent long lasting flexible seal is a poly sulfide caulking material such as is made by Boatlife. I am not affiliated with the company, but I worked in the fiberglass boat building industry for 15 years. We tried 5200 and when change orders came through for deck hardware placement, we ended up pulling off the top layer of laminate when we tried to remove the part that was bonded with 5200. At that point we switched to the polysulphide compound, and things were rosy after that.
Good job on the fix for bearing surface on rudder shaft. Great plans for the changes in the cabin. Having a chart/nav station in the main saloon will provide the space for you and Ava to work together on trip plans. Take lots of pics before you rip put existing structures. Chain plates look to be attached to some of your planned remodels. Overall everything is looking very good. Splash date will be an epic day.
I can't wait to see the solution to seal the rudder shaft with the shell.... esp with the huge water temp differences that will take place between dissimilarity of glass and steel... Popping popcorn for that one...
To help preserve the wood inside the structural members you could drill some holes into the members from the top down and put salt into the holes. This will prevent rot from setting in. This is an old technique used in wooden boat building to stop dry rot, and will prevent any type of mold from doing damage. It is a simple technique and even though you are going to add laminate to correct any weakness, this will just be an added measure to help keep the strength of the members.
Mads let me add to my post about cutting the structural in half I should had said cut the to off like slicing a bit of cheese on the tom of the member then pull the gunk out and put in foam and epoxy....
for the structure repair, have you considered taking out the old wood and pouring in nida core or similar? I have seen it mostly used in transoms. People leave the fiberglass and pour in sea cast or nida core and it's strong as heck. This way you would just have to remove the top fiberglass and cut out the old wood in there and pour in new.
I also think the addition of the stainless steel flange would be a good idea so it could be used as a protective wear surface especially if it is in contact with any other surface
This would be a great time to engineer a water collection system into the dodger. Also, for the anodizing, RU-vid has a lot of videos on how to do it yourself.
My immediate thought is to put a section of solid 404 10cm thick anywhere the rudder shaft protrudes through the shell, a long solid contact point like that would do good to seal the shaft, and seal it in one half then put the other over, if there is no seam between the halves in that portion, there is less chance the rudder will leak!
Mads, Your could consider filling shell with foam. Leave it overfilled. Place shell in parting board. Router sled to level center. Then router out area for stem and fin. Just a thought.
What about a scan of the inside of each mould halve, the have a cutter / water jet cut the pvc foam panels into small cross sections you could then sandwich inplace in the moulds with your filler then sand and lastly put the other side of the mould, let cure and viola -
Good stuff Mads! Will you show us a time lapse of the second vacuum infusion? It really is a fascinating process. Love the progress you're making, super happy for you and Ava, can't wait to see the structural members fix! Speaking of structural members, will you drill weep holes so the plywood can slowly start to dry out over time? I know plywood that's been soaked and then dried has the structural integrity of sawdust but at least it will be dry?
There are some good ideas below. I like the idea of removing a few 3 inch or so round holes to help lighten it up etc, What about a layer of foam sheet on each half of the shell & a pour foam or the concoction that flows to fill the balance of space? I would have to go back & watch but thinking washer on both sides of the shell everywhere the post passes through to help keep the rudder from moving up or down in the future May be over kill once the insides are packeted in there. Already looking fwd to next week.
Oh the way to fix the oops was to grind off the bump, then put a small piece of wood as a mold against the shell and glass against it once! Cheers Warren
To seal the rudder shaft--although I am a very old 5200 fan(40yrs plus!) perhaps another option--rough up the stainless with 80 grit and apply a schedule of West System G-Flex epoxy, with perhaps some colloidal silica-----Mikey
If the transverse floors are wet and Athena is on the hard in a very cold place the moisture might freeze and expand and un-tab partially from the hull. Maybe .
While ordering chainplates, take the opportunity to add a pair of extra chainplates/bridlepoints for a Jordan drogue (or similar) at the transom, cheap to do and easy to fit at this point even if you have no immediate intention/need for them today. They'll be cheap preparation if you really are going for the RTW cruising ...
Hiya Mads, great that you got back safe even if you left your heart behind, it's a total shame Ava could not join you yet as she adds so much to your videos and I guess your life... On the rudder question I don't have a clue and the comments I just read come from all directions. I guess it's, 'You pays your money and you takes your choice', in other words whatever you choose will be wrong in some ones eyes. Best of luck with that one but Cement Boat Guy knows witch way is up, so... I liked the comment about, "Will 9mm of glass in the floor move stress points?" Sleep well and take care...
To help keep the water out of the interior of the rudder, I would consider building up about 25 mm of fiberglass at each of the three entry points where the shaft passes into (or out of) the rudder cavity...the one at the top and the two where the skeg attaches. I would then bed the shaft in 5200 or butyl tape at these locations. This would have the benefit of a longer bed joint for water to pass through before reaching the core, and would also reinforce the entry points to strengthen the shell where the stresses are the highest. the 5200 bonds well, but the butyl tape can withstand a lot of flex while still remaining water tight...and it is way less messy. Regarding the collet (or metal ring) around the shaft where the skeg attaches, I too agree that this would be best left outside of the shell...specially if the attachment at the skeg bears weight in the vertical direction. Meaning this would be a thrust bearing point. But then I am not sure where the load bearing points on your rudder are. If the upper bearing supports the full vertical load of the rudder, then it would not be so important.
Hi Mads - how about using marine ply to fill the bulk of the rudder and then you will need far less of that darned expensive expanding epoxy foam? I rebuilt my rudder with marine ply shaped best I could and then used thickened epoxy where required for the cavities - that was 5-6 years ago now and still looking good and rock solid. I like the many suggestions to add stainless rings on the rudder stock - it just makes sense. Thanks for another great episode.
I think everything you do is top-notch quality. I don’t want the following comments to take away from what you were doing but I do have a very basic question. I have a 50-year-old fibreglass sailboat. A couple of years ago I had to build A new rudder The flanges on the stainless stock were much smaller than yours and I had holes cut in them to lighten them. The original rudder was made of aluminum so the construction of a new rudder was from the ground up. I then used alternating layers of Corcel and fibreglass with epoxy to build up the thickness. Once I had the proper thickness I then shaped it and put a few layers of heavy fibreglass over the outer shell. It has worked great since then. It was a lot less work than making a mold, laying up the outer shell first and then filling it. Do you think my method would have worked for you? You likely considered my approach. I also think you’re going to wind up with very good quality rudder but one that may be a bit on the heavy side. I enjoy your series very much.
Goodday lad we took a Catalina 34 and did same thing we doubled the size of stringers by adding marine grade ply and Fiberglas boat is stronger than when it was new from factory we also added one new stringer in bow to reduce oilcanning
Check out Just About Sailing, he rebuilt a rudder in fact I think he told you about the hard infill of your old one. He did several experiments with expanding foam including a test to see if it absorbed water after curing. Pretty sure his was not as expensive as you said yours would be' even though his rudder is smaller. Good luck and don’t harp on about tiny mistakes, we all make them....it doesn’t make for good video. IMHO. Andy UK
Great video. Please do not forget to fill-in the mold so you do not need to repeat the adding layers. I still would love to see the CNC used to rough in the shape or the foam prior to gluing it.
Oh ya Sunday and Sail Life, my favorite day of the week. Great video Mads, congratulations on the engagement, you are going to be such a busy man in the future. Live life brother
How about a combination of foaming fill and the semi-rigid foam. In this manner you would be taking up the majority of room with the rigid....leaving the other to fill in the small gaps.
You could use devinycell foam and vacuum it when you had assembled the rudder. My 40- year old boat made in Stubbekøbing is laminated with this material and is still dry.
I love the effort you put into all of your projects and would hate to see it wasted. I'm not qualified to have an opinion on this matter but I can't help wonder if there was a reason the designers spec'd such a heavy sand filled rudder, was it for a specific reason such as the possibility of a foam core compressing under the turning torque and resistance from the water, the additional ballast to help the boat sit correctly at the waterline or just due to cost. That aside I agree with others that it probably wouldn't do any harm to lay up some extra glass and weld an extra ring onto that lower section so you can create a better seal.
Mads, Just watched "Just about sailing" video and looked up Sicomin. There are some youtube videos on the stuff as well. -- if the cost works out that's the stuff to use. I would modified the procedure a little for your rudder: First bond the rudder shaft into one side of your skin -- adding some support bosses if necessary. Next would bond on the other skin closing all the gaps with thickened epoxy. Add some (4 or 5) 12 mm holes up near the trailing edge of the closed-in assembly for use in adding the foam. Support the rudder on the shaft edge so the trailing edge is vertical and the high point. Add the foam in the holes which should flow down to the shaft edge. The foam will expand from the shaft upwards on both sides of the steel plates, forcing any excess out the holes at the top. I worry if you did it flat there could be a trapped air void on the top of the plates. Finally patch the holes. Looks like that foam stops expanding prior to setting keeping the interior pressure low, don't want to pop off the skins or have to do multiple lifts of foam. Good luck Craig
The H80 is a far better choice and layers of this will be more than substantial Mads.You can always kerf the back of the foam if required. Great job. Cheers Ross
Have you considered putting weep holes (or limber holes depending on how you think about it) into those grid members? After all, why not open them up a bit and let 'em breathe.
Mads, why would you leave rotten wood in the stringers? Not adding to structural integrity it's deadweight. As others have mentioned, adding 6mm of glass is going to significantly add weight. How about glassing and bolting aluminium channels lengthwise to the bottom, top and end of the stringers creating a stiff internal box within the stringers. Or better yet custom make Al frames for each section to be glassed and/or bolted. Pound for pound Al is stronger than glass. Keep the existing glass stringers, core out the bad wood, fill with structural Al frames...profit.
Hey Madds Glad to have you back aboard good old Athena. Your video this week seemed to POP! It just seems so much clearer and brighter. Did you change cameras? Looking forward to your next video.
Mads, to seal the lower rudder stock internal section , modify the shell slightly by using a ~1mm larger rod to make a say 50 mm long half round laminate under it , or solid epoxy. Then you can fill this tube with 5200 and have enough there to be a 'form in place' gasket. The foam skins are fine but you can also use any resin you want to fill the cavity with lots of ( light wt) filler in it , no colidial silica, so it still flows and fill one half almost full , repeat on other side , then after cure put excess amount of any bonding paste between the 2 halves and squish together . This will nicely bond the 2 halves together with waterproof products , with no voids anywhere for water, do this all with the parts in the molds . It will be sort of like a non-expanding epoxy foam. You can also get "macro balloons' that are 2-5mm DIA if you really want to go light Wt. but I would just use micro balloons /spheres and epoxy resin, NO COLLOIDAL SILICA so it flows and is strong. Add short chopped fibers if you really want to overbuild. Do you intend to add a THIN layer of glass across the exterior joint? I would . Hope this helps you come up with your final idea. Cheers Warren
G Henrickson hi, yes but not glass it's some sort of phenolic I think , we use to call it Syntactic foam. That the 'Macro' spheres I mentioned. He will use the green foam I expect.
I have used expanding foam and it is difficult to work with but good for filling void and providing strength. I am interested to see how the solid sheets work out. Thank you for another excellent video Mads :)
I hate the idea of leaving the wet plywood ....... could you drill 2 large holes with a holesaw on opposite ends of the floor frames. Then vacuum out the water from one end, it will take a while but water under vacuum evaporates faster , and or heat . Then get slow cure under water curing resin, and pour it in draw with vacuum to fill a lot of the voids , if you do a good enough job no need to layup all that extra laminate. If nothing else I would at least drill some large holes in the top of one frame so you really know what's going on.......... Cheers Warren
I am reminded that given enough time and allowing enough money...anything is possible. I bet expanding epoxy foam would do the trick also. Maybe that is why it was invented...for filling voids while adding strength.
G Henrickson hi , you need to be very carefully with expanding foam products, despite what they say they are never closed cell and always absorb water sooner or later, you need to keep the water away. Same with any wood in a fiberglass boat , any wood need to be kept out of water. No amount of resin coating is going to work long term. Cheers Warren
You should check out the PB series by Sicomin. It is a very good Epoxy Foam System, which is easy to use and by far not as expensive as 2000$ for a rudder. It know, that it is provided by "time out" here in Germany. Regards Julius
Hey Mads, this is my favorite channel, and of course glad to wacth every episode, but did you ever consider buying a boat that needed a bit less work so you could get out on the water sooner? What has been your most enjoyable and least enjoyable project so far?
Build a new flange in the bortompart by welding two parts of a cirkel in stainless on the shaft then you have a good area to securing sealant all the way..
Dear MADS : you ask for help and we send it but you have to look at cutting weight down of your SAILBOAT. the rudder bushing should be outside and use rubber rings to keep water out. also take some weight out of the metal plates (like put in some circle cut out. You got to try the Honeycomb core I told you about it great stuff. As for your Frame trust GETTING the WATER SOAK Core out. Just cut the top off remove the water soak core and use the Honeycomb Core then use KEVLAR or Carbon/Kevlar mat over the top . That way you have strength and cut down the weight. If you two are sailing you have to have Supplies. do you know how much more weight you are going to put on your sailboat by adding more Fiberglass over the frame trust???? I have seen Honeycomb core be use instead of marine wood. Well good luck I think both of you should layout the whole inside of the Sailboat. Also look into the new rigging for the mast, like the nylon rope. GOD BLESS
Make it watertight by a rubber sealing inside + outside + a steel ring around both places. I know they will be difficult, but you may weld these two rings - or by two bolts that connects the two half-rings ... for hulen mit engelske er glemt ... VH
I have just used West System G-Flex in the edge between the keel and the hull so I don't get a hair line crack when the whole thing flex, maybe an idea at your rudder.
Hi , it does Not cost that Expensive the 2 Part flotation Foam. Jamestown distributors . TotalBoat 2 Part Polyurethane Flotation Foam , 2 and 6 lbs foam it may do the job . Nick.
Why not use plaster? Fiberglass the 2 halves together and then pour in plaster. It will flow around complex angles and fill the cavity (make sure to gently vibrate the rudder as you fill). When it dried it would be waterproof and light.
Plaster shrinks very little if at all, depending on how you mix it (you can put all types of additives in it including fiberglass strands). If your worried about shrinkage you already have the board vertical to pour it. Just top off the void at the top (if any) before you close it up. You need the weight/mass in the rudder to keep it from fluttering. A slightly out of asymmetric shape in a fluid will vibrate. If the rudder is too light, it will vibrate and flutter which will wreck any autopilot and rudder bearings.
Haha, your pronounciation is starting to show signs of an american accent Mads :D Congratulations for your engagement by the way! All the best for the both of you!
Mads, mate if you are going to lay over the top of the original structure that's fine. BUT, it all relies on your bond of new to old. ok from my experience it will fail in 20 to 30 years. You must dry the original polyester resin completely and key the old surface with a rough 40grit disc. May I suggest using your heating blanket to get the moisture level in the old ribs as low as possible. then a slow cure with heat lamps on and using west system epoxy that you are use to. if you send me your email I will send you a copy of my failed keel beams (FYI). My repair ended up costing as much as my boat was worth, but she is an historic race yacht. The guy from boat works would be my consultant if I was you, basically because you know him and he knows what he is doing, for my yacht the shipwright had never repaired a Kevlar boat and wanted me to write up the repair laminate scheme, no problem, but worrying considering it was an insurance repair and I was not allowed to participate at all. so get it right now. cheers.
MADS by looking at all the replies it sound like you may want to use honeycomb structural panels and epoxy this too the Rudder first then shape it to your Fiberglass panels then epoxy them together and that way less water to soak your core if water gets in. take care and hope you think about doing the frame inside your boat the right way by not glassing over the old wet heavy core.
Consider building up some internal fiberglass and foam u stringers to transfer the rudders skin forces to the metal plates others than relying on the foam to do so.
I'd go back and look at pictures of the old rudder. Was that lower flange internal or external. Internal doesn't seem right without an additional washer-like bearing on the outside.
A bit random not sure how it would hold up with salt water but you can get an foam mix that is designed to hold up a fence post. It just seems like you are going to spend an eternity forming those sheets into the mold only to cover them up with the glass shell
I think I would definitely want to remove the rotten crossmembers. I know it is a huge amount of work, but think of all the effort and money you've spent, in the years down the road you're going to have a nagging voice in the back of your head that you're walking around on a bunch of black rotten wood with a load of GRP on top of it..... not so spiffy! Take the effort to do it now, you're stepping the interior anyway. :)
