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I saw Summit playing Star Citizen last night. Saying he's done with Star Citizen, then coming back to play again ?.........that makes him an official Citizen now. Welcome to the verse o7
He literally said he's coming back more aggressive with 4.0 -- only reason he stopped playing last night was because he couldn't find anyone to tuck on their ships and his usual spots weren't well populated, so he switched to Sea of Thieves to do the same thing he was doing in Star Citizen in Sea of Thieves.
@@vik12D Lol. Yeah... But you got your F7A MKII? And it was an epic feeling at the end... the bugs are a feature... it makes for an entirely new feeling of accomplishment, right?
He’s doing what all long term backers are doing. We play the new stuff and then wait until the next patch. I’m waiting for physicalized cargo, I’ll play it out and then wait for 4.0 and engineering and pyro. Rinse and repeat. It will be like that until it’s a finished game, which it isn’t even close to yet. It’s an alpha and will be for some time to come.
@@StuartGT That's... not quitting. Quitting means you're done with something. Literal dictionary definition: "To leave, usually permanently." Breaking for a few months until the next big content patch isn't quitting. and it's something pretty much every gamer has done with every game.
@@cthree87 Yep, pretty much what I do as well. I hop in every 4-6 months, play like crazy for a few months and mess with all the new stuff, then break for another 4-6 months.
So the point of Star Citizen for me is: Don't force me into gameplay I don't want to be in. Star Citizen should be a sandbox where you, the player, decide what to do next. This means if you want to go pirate, then there must be enough victims. If you want to go chilling, then there must be enough retreat to do that without bothering about pirates. This is a split that can only be made using NPC AI. And we will get there with the NPC/PC ratio of 9/1 that will eventually happen. If there are no players available to be victims, then NPC AI will spawn instead and you can pirate them. You will not even see the difference. The NPC AI needs to get ramped up to populate the system / universe really soon, until that happens the game is not a game but an empty sandbox.
...and it shouldn't be either. There should be a counter to it that rewards the player very well. You get rewarded far too much for committing crimes, as it's easier to get money that way and then just 'clear' your criminal status using a fucking USB drive. It's so stupid.
6:58 "piracy hubs" - yea, imagine you have 30% chance that your cargo mission will be pirated along with your investments worth of days of gameplay. What a perspective.
No kidding, what a take. This was painful to listen to. And you spend hours grinding just to have a "pvp'er" grief you. You come back and kill them and they go to jail for 20 min that they can serve while logging out and playing rust. The consequences for lawful players is millions of credits and hours of gameplay lost and griefers get a slap on the hand. You say I want to grind in peace and Mike is like shut up, your stupid, I wanna pvp so let me grief you or go play Zelda
That's why you prepare yourself, hire crew/play with friends. If you go into a high risk area without being prepared and get your ass handed to you, it's on you.
@@Kim-ug4fy What is risk for pirates here? Where is the balance? Why some players should "prepare themself, gather crew and friends" and still risk cargo worth of several days of grind while other players risk like 4hours in Klescher and have a chance to get profit worth of several days of grind? Would you agree to spend as much time in Klescher as was spent on grinding that cargo? Like several days, a week of active hand mining, not just sleeping it over in your bed. Yesterday I did ROC mining, for 3 hours, just for "fun". One hour of futile surface pinging, two server disconnects with claiming both ROC and Cutlas loosing all cargo. Two server crashes where I had to bed logoff because ROC stopped functioning. Overall in 3hours my profit was about 200k. I imagine some heehoo streamer pirated me "for fun" - I'd probaly make a vow not to pay CIG a penny until they get GOTY somwhere in 2035.
@@Kim-ug4fy For some reason my previous comment is hidden. Instead I'll give you an example. Last week I had an entertainment. I took 890j and half an hour rammed duper's C2s at A18 spaceport. I destroed like 6-7 C2 with cargo apparently, probably the cost of cargo was several millions, may be tens of millions . I got to Klescher, had 500k of fines and 6hrs of sentence. I spent 1 minute there. I wrote in chat to a guy who trade merits, paid him 72k, he sent me merits and I got out. This is legitimate game mechanic! This is level of risk for piracy. "Prepare yourself" gosh.
9:04 - What to do if you want PvP? Do a couple missions that get you a high crimestat and wait for the players who take your bounty. You're red. You get all the PvP you want. They get your marker and come to you.
and how amazing entertainment it was :) hehehe I love he plays EVE and can give a good comparisons of what SC should look up to and adopt to make the game more fun
I think any of you that haven't ever sailed or been on a ship before need to take a good hard look at how much 'waiting' was actually involved in real piracy. Do you think pirates just raid ships back to back to back? They'd go sometimes months without seeing another target. Sometimes over a year. Waiting is part of 'springing a trap' and piracy. Crying about having to wait is ridiculous. If you aren't willing to wait to get lucky, then ask CIG to put in a steady back -to back stream of PvE ships coming to a station that you can just 'raid' as you like. But where's the fun in simply having piracy be a 'conveyor belt' of available ships to raid? Where's the strategy in where to be, where's the reward in waiting and actually striking gold? If gold is in every strike, where's the hunt? Waiting is fine. Piracy SHOULD take time. If it was a guaranteed loop, every chad and his brother would be pirates and not a single player would ever haul cargo again.
@@VuDude17 the problem with games is that they need to minimize timeframes since people don't have as much time as in real life, which is hard when going for a realistic and immersive experience
@ironwar8501 I understand what you're saying but, I don't believe every game on the market needs to cater to people with quote on quote "don't have as much time". Sure video games can probably cut some fat here and there to optimize time to task but minimize? No. If you're on that much of a squeeze for time, you as a consumer probably should realize two things. Perhaps immersive video games that require a heavy time investment aren't for me and I should find another game or two maybe I don't have the luxury in life to enjoy video games as much as I used to. A game for everyone is a game for noone.
@@VuDude17 I love that you quote arrowhead, and I agree with you, but I also want star citizen to have as many players as possible to make an even more epic universe, but I guess that'll have to be a dream
If single players are in Stanton and PvP only players in Pyro…how are the PvPers standing around??? If they all want PvP then that’s the reward…If they are not non-stop fighting each other then it tells me they only want to target players who want to play it safer.
This is just the rant of the ganking community whining that they can't track down helpless players. If they get what they want, those non-combat players will quit. "Nobody is doing it" is what will happen if it's so easy to track down players.
so mike makes a living out for streaming SC. 99% of his audience plays SC. and he calls all SC players idiots? wtf dude maybe should go back to casino and dealing cards
Yep, more whiny bitching because the game isn't as easy as the others they are exploiting. If I'm gonna decide to pirate for a day, I'm gonna research the trade routes and also rely on my own hard earned skill in understanding trade routes and then I will hunt down what I feel is a good route for that time. Then there is a few ways I will approach my styles of piracy. None of which I plan to share. ;) But you can't expect to be able to camp a military or security protected space station. Even though the security, Crime Stat system, and military are far from polished, It's just ridiculous and completely unrealistic. And because of the vast distance between things in space, you need to have patience and better tactics. And to WhinEMIke, it's an alpha phase game. Go play something else if you don't want to be considered a tester until it is released. Go deal with the bugs from todays horrible AAA developers. There is just a handful of AAA companies that are creating amazing games. And they are ALL taking a decade or more to complete and STILL get released with bugs and server issues. And they aren't even creating a world the size of a SPACE game. And they've all had BILLIONS of dollars coming in and a lot from large donor investors on top of their own, almost limitless, resources. Also, the amount of information, video, interviews, roadmap info, lore, and different types of gameplay that S.C. has to offer is incredible and will only continue to grow. When you cycle through the all the controls for S.C., that should tell you alone how much goes into the development. But there's always going to be the haters. Which is good because when you learn how to use them as fuel, great things are accomplished. And they have to live with always being whiny, miserable people who tend to be constantly WRONG.
I have no idea who that guy is, oh well. As for learning other parts of the game, just doing weekly dogfight training with my org, doing orbital drills and becoming a better pilot really changed the game for me. FPS is a great part. I started doing mostly just MOLE mining, then started branching out and there really is a lot of gameplay now. I started in 2016 and in 2024 Id rather play Star Citizen than Elite Dangerous or Eve, etc.
As for piracy, please try to catch this. Your pirating, others don't want to be pirates, they want a chill relaxed hour or two flying around in an (alpha) game, so they avoid pirates and take a couple extra steps to stay out of pirate known areas/interdiction lanes and a few credits loss by going to less profitable cargo routes. That equated to less available opportunities to pirate. The large amount of casual solo players are either not running game loops that provide easy meat for pirates or because they don't want to be easy meat while running cargo in ships pirates target learn the common practices of pirates to reduce likelihood of contact with pirates. Few times I run freight/ore/cargo, I don't land if there is a spotter at the pickup, and I dogleg into the delivery location to avoid snaring. Hearing "I wanna be a pirate and take your stuff! Make it easier for me!" Means one thing. Those not wanting to be pirated are better at it than pirates are at being pirates.
There will be. People don't read or follow development. BUT, what it comes down to is getting better at figuring out trade routes and ways to pirate. I am quite good at it. But the point of the game is not piracy. If it was, then it would be called Space Pirates. Camping a space station is just not realistic anyway. If piracy was so easy, then everyone would do it. People just can't get it through their thick skulls that there is something MUCH bigger being created here. Not only that, but it's still in an early alpha phase. I love it when people bitch about it all. It just goes to show who the whiny bitches are who don't have the mental acuity to follow the development and then be able to understand and appreciate what has gone into creating this vast, hand crafted world. Notice how the people bitching have no idea what goes into creating a game with so many moving parts. If you want a simple game for a simple mind, go play PUBG... and I'm referring to the whiny streamers and players that are constantly shitting on other people's life's work while they only have the skill to whine on video about a game and exploit it.
I mean yeah in a game called Star CITIZEN I would imagine that you're gonna have more to do if you act like a law abiding CITIZEN and do regular work, what a shock.
I dropped in on his streams a couple of times and saw exactly what I expected; typical tourist calling what they're doing piracy, and calling people out for stream sniping (classic summit), when what he was doing was typical seal clubbing - hunting miners on Yela, no "your money or your life", no REAL piracy, just straight squadding up in fighters and shooting anything that moves, and getting salty when people came to defend them. I'd say that they should try playing on servers with the REAL pirates, but they'd just call hax/sniping and swap servers, because most of the real pirates have been honing their craft in this game for years.
"I'm so angry that victims don't just constantly fall into my lap every five kilometers" Hopefully what he's wishing for will come true if CIG gets around to populating the Verse with wandering NPC ships waiting to be poached.
Freelancer was my first game online that I got to play. I loved playing that game. The largest reasons I get excited about the potential of star citizen are mostly tied to the fun I had on freelancer.
@@dettonate You don't get what I am saying I think. Basically shrink Stanton to the size of Woods map in Tarkov ok? Now... maybe 3 players on the whole map spawn in and the AI walk around oblivious to you t-posing and standing on chairs LOL. Tarkov would die. What we need is more players shoved into the existing area (10 years into development) and have activity funneling. Like he said... remember Freelancer? You had to travel intersteller highways. If we had that kind of Choke point between trades, we would be insentivized to bring protection in the form of escorts. Pirates would bring friends and money would be a risky business. Right now it's... hey bill what you up to tonight... Uh... ROC mining. You? Oh I'm salvaging..... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wipe after wipe x 3 years later. Same conversation again LOL. I have been following the game for 10 years and actively playing on and off for 4. I know the experience of SC very well. Luckily my ORG will put on events so that helps break things up but many of them the main game loop is the CCU game LOL.
One of the problems for PvPers/griefers is Star Citizen isn't Tarkov. They want other players, who's chances of fighting back are minimal, to be forced to be the PvPer's own, personal content. Those PvE players desire to avoid players like Summ1t. There is a middle ground here. Just because I'm in a cargo/mining/salvaging ship doesn't mean I HAVE to be available to you. MMOs can offer more higher level content that requires player interaction that ISN'T combat. Which Star Citizen doesn't have right now. These are not mutually exclusive goals, and Eve is a great example of that. Notice this guy mentioned the armor farmer, but he didn't go after that player because he was prepared for a fight.
I don't mind it that we get certain lanes that "can" be pirated, as long as we have choices not to go there, that aren't detrimental. Because as I hope it will be, playing together with others should be a choice, an option, not a prerequisite.
Jesus christ this again. People duping is what's making RMC a pain to sell, not it being a tradeable commodity. In no universe is it impossible to have RMC also be a tradeable commodity. It worked perfectly fine before the dupe exploit so can we stop trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Also Salvagers are also using the dupe exploit. CIG need to fix the ACTUAL problem, not paper over it.
@@mayoluck 100% agree. I was very anti piracy when I first started playing 1 year ago. Now I argue Chris Roberts drove me to Piracy because its the least broken activity.
and yet... there are still more players getting in their ships, running bunkers, farming armors, doing mining, salvaging, or cargo runs... and all of it without getting salty about not getting to shoot each other. face it, we just have more fun than the people who just want to PvP because we don't have to cause someone else misery to enjoy the game.
Pirates just need AI to work, we need Quanta. This isn’t a PvP game, it’s PvE with PvP elements. So he is right, no content exist. PvP exist but like 100 people are smeared out over a few huge planets and asteroid belts. So no…you are not going to be finding people every minute. Even real life pirates need to wait a looong time for a possible victim.
i always anticipated players would sit in the middle of the main routes between planets and stations with an interdictor and jump you there. so i already jump at angles and never directly to my location to avoid crossing a well travelled path. jump to a different target, then abort and plot another jump, etc
"Muh pvp" When will PVP players understand that +90% of people dont want to pvp ? No PVP focused MMO ever made a success... PVP players need to lower their expectations.
To sum up this video... Star Citizen lacks fully realized Game Loops which you'd think that CIG would have focused on but instead of doing that, they decided to focus on Developing SQ42.
They focus on one thing only and that's creating more ships and re-doing old ships so they can continue to sell them to people to make money to fund 'development', rinse repeat. We're never getting fully realized gameplay loops as long as they need to make money to keep development going.
@@KarnageKollectiblesthe game is barely functional with fifty players per server, so what they’ve been working on for nine years was server meshing so that you can have over a thousand people per server. So yes, they’re selling ships to keep the money coming in for server meshing. If that’s a success not only will you see twenty times more players, but the “obvious” game loops will last long enough to be completed (without crashing). I bought a vulture in game last week and went on 11 runs, and I could only complete 3 of them because of the game glitching out.
14:00 I always did, when I used to mine, refine, and sell. If I’m going to arc corp to sell, I’m hitting a dead space first and coming in at an unused angle. If you’re not doing that, you will be once the replication layer is working and we have 500+ other players to look out for. 😂
This dude doesn´t realize that most MMO players play solo (most of the time) and pve, also traders, miners and salvagers have goten wiser to avoid pirate encounters ;) Edit: also from the looks of his desktop, it looks like this dude mostly plays some fast pased competitive shooters, nothing to do with star citizen, well maybe in arena commander you can get some of those types of gameplay. But i hope everyone get their favourite gampley loop
Having all players clumped together in a “hub” is the exact opposite of what CIG is trying to do with server meshing. I think a lot of these complaints will go away once we have +800 person servers.
unironically once more people are forced into playing together... I have a strong feeling, the people who've claimed they want more PvP will be some of the first to walk away. "be carful what you wish for, you might just get it"
As other ppl mentioned, I have no idea who this guy is. Still, I'm happy he's calling all the shit out. CIG has hundreds of devs working on cool ships, while the game is still shit. I'd rather have 10 ships and a game to play, than 150 ships and a mere tech demo
have you played the game recently? its pretty good in its current form. I would say its several levels over a "tech demo". a tech demo would have been the hanger modules from 10 years ago where you could just run around and look at your jpegs. lol
@@fakiirification exaaaactly, cant even call it a playable demo anymore, there are gameplay loops. now, whether they are cohesive and finished is another story but they are certainly there
@@michaelstevens230 who's definition of a demo are you following. there is no industry standard for what a Demo can entail. Please provide me with proof of the rules on how the term demo can be used. And random youtube videos of someone explaining what someone else in their discord or social circle told them does not count nor does some random reddit post or subreddit.
the problem is there are some pvpers that dont even want pvp they want to kill pve players. they dont want a real fight they just want a win. it doesnt take many of them to ruin the game for everyone else.
I think one of the biggest issues is that SC wants to cater to too many different audiences. It wants to cater to miners who just wanna chill, listen to music, and make money. It also wants to cater to cargo haulers, bounty hunters, PVP, PVE, role play, multi-crew, and about a dozen other different play styles. They want to give players who want to be safe from pirates a way to do so, but they also want to give pirates a way to pirate, and those two polar opposites don't make sense, because then a player just doing trading has to CHOOSE to be more vulnerable to pirates by not using the methods CIG implemented for players to avoid pirates. You can't do absolutely everything at once and appeal to absolutely all players all at once, and that is the core issue.
Pyro jump gate camping will bring about armistice (and should) because they spent years developing these assets and if it is abused that hard then nobody will go anymore. It is other MMO‘s that have major jump points like that put in safeguards around that stuff so they can propagate the area with players..
Why the heck does anybody think the pirating route is valuable when you have a max 100 people on a server I mean it's silly cuz everybody else is spread out doing their own thing cuz they're just got trying to play for an hour or two and they don't have 8 hours to sit around and wait for something when there's 10,000 people on a server maybe then they're going to get lucky around any trade port but that's what they're choosing also just like I might choose to just go in a cave in mind for 2 hours or do a rock mining or maybe some trading of anything but their choice is to wait around for pirating it's not anybody's fault that they don't happen to have somebody coming to that particular trade port and if I didn't want to be pirated maybe I choose to not go and go to that fancy trade port where I know all the pirates are going to be sitting out there waiting to kill me and take my s*** so no I'll go into a less traveled one so I can enjoy my game time I don't care about the pirates if the pirates want to live that life it's a life of long-term boredom potentially so be it have fun I hope they enjoy doing it doesn't mean the game has to accommodate that at the expense of everyone else so I don't want him to make pirating easier for them they should have patience or they should go get another job and then only pirate when they feel like it
On the issue of pirating, it shouldn't be easy, and idiots should be the victims of it the majority of time ... and if you want to nab the smarter players, then think smarter yourself. Last thing, in just the last 2 days I saw plenty of pirating being streamed. The guy is a bit of a hype jock.
My only problem with summit playing games in alpha or beta is he treats them like they are finished games. He will yell about things not working completely perfect. I also think he thought tucking in Star Citizen was going to be as easy as it is in the much smaller game Sea of Thieves.
CIG needs to introduce NPC convoys to the verse (tier 1). Let these convoys move between planets with various skill levels. They don’t have to be linked to the economy initially nor do they need to have a ton of cargo on them. Just something to test out the mechanic. Space ships and ground vehicle convoys I’m talking.
A good way to get people transporting goods on a regular basis. Keep rare ore price the same. Increase the cost to process it dramatically. Still have places that are cheaper to process certain ore. Have it like half the cost so you are way more likely to take it to the certain place. Increase the price for processed Ore and the place to sell it on the opposite side of the system from where it's cheap. Example if you process it at most expensive and sell at cheapest make it so you would make as much as selling the ore. Process at best and sell at worst make just ok amount maybe double ore price. Process at cheapest and sell at highest make 6 times ore cost. Not sure the exact numbers but I hope you all get it. You could dramatically increase the price and make it so you get less ore from each rock so a prospector might have to mine 3 spots to fill up.
I hope CIG do spend some time looking at these streamer's experiences Because they represent the new player experience, and often a niche, such as PVP or role play or whatever and Summit's experience imo represents a few things The law system having shittonnes of holes PVP honeypots are currently very bad and badly signposted Etc etc
To further this, it is too easy for people to get crime stat and frankly, they nerfed player options when they pulled Levski. The org v org battles are gone. No drive for me in that. I'm ok with him being pissy about not being able to get into fights. Let people cry and have them come back for Pyro where it will be the laws of DayZ. Maybe it will be more fun if there are more players.
@@besiege8246What would be the point of Pyro though. In DayZ generally speaking you can avoid all combat if you know how the map works. Certain items are locked to only spawning in a certain city or town. So if you wanted to pvp you could go there and be guaranteed combat. You would find people there that want combat and people that want the loot and know the risk. If Pyro has all the same risk with none of the reward, all you will have is pvp people sitting around doing nothing like right now. Like I want to believe it will be like DayZ but we have no evidence that it will happen.
The issue is apart from the sale location, mining, trading and salvage rely on different stations across the map I remember only ever needing to travel to the L5 and L3 stations for the short time I tried ship mining
"Who told him the content was there?" --- I've been hearing this one same line from the copium addicts since 2015: "The game already gives us so much content for our money, we would be happy if development stopped today."
The reward of Jumptown could be Reputation with some Org. Should be a recurrent mission, a mixed PVPE mission granted by opposing NPC factions/Orgs so Players have to confront themselves on behalf of these Orgs. That's a good motivation for Players to go there.
His opinion is fine and true from an outsider looking into SC as a game and be puzzled a bit. SaltEMike really understands what SC has to do to become the MMO of space sims. It has to be filled with players and running into each others. You have to get the tools to scan and find signals of things you want to do in your favorite gameplay routes. A bounter hunter needs a way to hunt, shocking right? Camping with 100 players doesn't make sense.
I think this is good tie in to how data running could happen. As people mine/salvage/cargo run the routes they take to sell etc could generate an upload of data a pirate could buy or sell for the data running loop. Data could be, X planet has the most hits for miners and X place has the most items sold. Would at least give you ideas on where to look for people.
Listen man... There is no progression in the game now, so playing alone sucks, but getting into an organized group that sets up their own games (like forge in Halo) is still very fun
Scanning, Exploration, and Data need to be implemented in a big way for piracy to actually work. "explorer" pirates will go out and find large mining operations, sell or provide the data to orgs or individual pirates, who can then do their pvp thing. This is why ships like the terrapin exist - effectively stealth recon. Complaining about it now is almost as dumb as complaining that the Science loop doesn't feel good because all we can do is "scan" for research purposes in a couple contracts. EDIT: Later in the video you're discussing PVP opportunities in Pyro - It's entirely possible that people who are associated with a particular faction will get rep for killing players of another faction. If early days WoW showed us anything it's that all people need is a place to fight and a ladder to climb and that's it. PvP will happen if CIG implements faction associated PvP.
The tier 2 server meshing, dynamic server meshing, really is the key though. That's the point at which there is only one server that is ghost hollow, and every player who goes to ghost hollow gets dynamically shifted to that one ghost hollow server, in the event that maybe more then 200 people go to ghost hollow at one time then a second ghost hollow server has to get spun up, but you know what the people on that first server and going to be having a hell of a time.
Personally I would have been very happy if this had turned out to be a Freelancer 2 MMO game. And it probably would have been done years ago! But nope, Chris Roberts had to shoot for a game that will take him 20 years to make. Half the original backers probably won't even live long enough to see it done.
Its bizarre to hear this guy talk about the only thing to make this game good is to get people to be in the same area together? Brother, it took me 6 hours to complete two missions due to constant gamebreaking bugs. How can you even talk about this robust PvP gameplay when the game barely allows you to fly your ship and pick up items lol
As far as piracy goes, this is why having functional AI will be critical as the space is so large you need it to work to fill the space because players should be smeared out early on. He said he wanted a 9 to 1 ratio of artificial intelligence to human players. We are not even supposed to the difference between the two so you cannot purposely target human players that can lead to eventual trolling
@@JJS563 Or another exmaple being multicrew ships. Unless its a Full crew HH/Redeemer, Scorpius, or a Hurricane, youre just at a disadvantage not bringing two or more ships, instead of flying in one.
If you were to camp that station. If it's that far out it means the bonus is based off distance from other areas and if you have multiple players youcan close on that area and cut off all travel routes.
I think meshing could have different instances of high population areas but combine moons into one instance that everyone that is there is in. Early iterations of meshing, IMO, could make it so that everyone that is outside of cities/meetups is in the same instance.
Trying to find ways to funnel PvE players into fights with PvP players is a good way to get PvE players to quit the game and never come back, and it's already difficult enough for PvP players to find people to pirate in the first place. It's not even putting a bandaid on a bullet wound so much as trying to cover up a bullet wound by shooting it several more time hoping the extra lead will stop the bleeding.
comm array should give player locations if hacked maybe and it should send a player a ping that the comm array have accesed location then pirrate could decide where or who they want on that planet and the player on the planet have a decision of going home or staying
Its speculative but for trade lanes, I think they have to tie them in with insurance. In particular cargo, etc insurance - for your coverage to be active you have to fly on trade lanes. I would hope there would be other reasons to use those lanes like lower fuel cost, less damage to your hull...stuff like that. But they havnt talked about anything like that
thats a good idea, and very similar to how actual boat and ship insurance works IRL. if you have an incident outside of your covered area, you have no insurance. but then the "trade lanes" would need to be patrolled by players (dynamic missions) or UEE NPC frigates to respond to acts of piracy.
@fakiirification yep, I think you would still need more reasons to prevent none trade lane jumps like...increased damage to components (qt drive), hull and cargo damage because if you are effectively never snared then people still won't use them.
This narcissist thinks that miners and cargo runners should want pirates to nullify their last 8 hours of investment so that he can spend 39 minutes stealing from them? And then he calls that interacting with other players? I dont understand why I would ever do those jobs if you have a 25% chance to lose all your investment and have wasted your time. This is a PvE game. It always has been. There is the possibility of PvP, but its not a PvP game
This is why 1.0.0 launch CANNOT be multiple servers/shards/whatever.. or glorified 500-1000 player PU’s we have now. People will just jump servers to avoid content. It has to be one universe like Eve, and it has to be much more than 5 systems for everyone to saturate and be able to fight over. If they launch with a glorified PU system like it has now, it will fail miserably with no hope of redemption, ever.
We bumped into @summit1g running a prison escape; joined his stream, told him how to do it, he just spent hours doing the same thing over and over (dying) instead of listening... good riddance!
Dudes got a point. There isnt much to do atm in the game from a streamers perspective. His audience wants murder and mayhem, his viewership grows with salty messages from his victims, they want the PVP. But the game doesn't do much to facilitate that, so without a large org that can host events (Which isnt the kind of pvp that most viewers want to see), there isnt much in the game that facilitates aggressive play. However, part of his problem is that he is PURELY a pvp player. He's not terribly interested in pve, and as the Devs have confirmed, Star Citizen is NOT a pvp game. Its a pve game with pvp elements, which is different. If you engage a pve game that allows pvp from the perspective of pvp only, you are losing out on the majority of the game. And he DOES approach these games (like Sea of Thieves) from the perspective of pvp only. He's even gone so far as to actively target and criticize players that try to avoid pvp in these games. The other problem is assuming he could milk SC for content as a streamer when its in development and hasn't actually fleshed out the gameplay beyond surface level engagement.
I don't think there's many of us that expected him to put in this much time into the game anyway. I thought he was going to end it after two or three days. I'm a big fan of this project, and a backer since day one, but his concerns are of course valid (especially for him as a streamer who's dependent on PvP encounters to make sandbox content).
I'd love nothing more than SC in single player. I hate it's an MMO, but what else are we gonna do? Starfield? Yeah right. Elite? Elite sucks and isn't anything like SC. Show me a single player game where you can mine, salvage, cargo haul, get out and walk around, etc with the level of detail that SC is and I'll go play that. I won't hold my breath though. I hate this "gO pLaY sOmEtHiNg eLsE" argument because there *isn't* anything else.
He has hit the point where he has realized he either has to make the content to play in the game (make your own fun), or wait a few years for it to come out from CIG. It's the SC Singularity. His streams were amazing for sure though.
24:20 Pyro... if they do what they say they are going to do... will make it the PVP area that all the PVP'ers SAY they want. Do they really want a place with no armistice zones? Hard to say. But what I can say is that I really do hope SC delivers on that. Even if it is short lived. I really do think it is an experiment they do need to have. Allow players to actually be such $#!+bags to everyone that even the outlaw gangs start shooting at you. If that ISN'T the result of rep in pyro then CIG can rest assured that the Orgs themselves will take matters into their own hands and simply start KOS lists and take over entire servers. Then it will be up to CIG to design server meshing in such a way that regions can't be monopolized. But in the current plan, I don't think there will be many, if any, actual armistice zones in Pyro. And that will lead to mandatory PVP.
I think the root of most of the "non-consensual pvp" as people like to call it is a lack of consequence for those actions. In Eve Online you can be attacked anywhere; but it comes at a price. If you want to try to blow up my ship as I leave the main trade hub in the whole game, you better bring the guns to do it. You only have 4 seconds before the cops warp in, target lock everyone in range (involved or not), and alpha the aggressor off the field. If you killed me before they killed you, you can come back and scoop the loot or have a friend do it for you. Ultimately, you decide whether the cost of the ships you used to kill me, was worth what I drop as loot; cuz you're losing that ship. There are real consequences in Eve. In SC, you just kill then go hack and everything is peachy. Because of this system, star gates between systems are heavily camped. Pirates scan ships as they come through the gate and then determine whether to shoot, or wait for the next. Its not just a murder hobo rampage, its much more strategic. This would however require more than 1 system in SC though, which is another problem adding to this. If the thought of the police fucking your shit up is not to your liking, there should be systems where the police won't come save you. Then, the onus of responsibility falls on the person who goes out there and not on those who wish to pirate. SC has to make it profitable for people to go to those systems with little to no Advocacy presence, otherwise the pirates will be in the same situation Summit is complaining about. There must be risk and reward BOTH WAYS not just for the law abiding and not just for the lawless.
As an Eve player Star Citizen is a very strange experience. I´ve tried it on and off for the past 5 years, proud owner of an Avenger Titan. The first thing that became apparent in SC for me was how empty and devoid of purpose it is. EVE is a point and click game, but the ammount of gameplay, things to explore and Org. Gameplay (Corporations/Alliances ) is huge to a point, where you dont play the game, you log in to the world and live it, you just choose how. Star Citizen on the other hand is breath taking beautiful game, that immerses you where ever you look and gives you zero purpose to be in it. One could use the its "still a tech demo" to excuse for it, however the total silence about what the game will have or not as gameplay, for me, shatters that argument. If in ten years you still cant commint to say what the gameplay really is, then im gonna assume that you dont know. What makes people play EVE for ever is really because its a game that gives you purpose, and that shit is powerful. Havent played a game that comes even close to it in that regard, nor am i demanding that level in SC. In EVE i´ve been a miner, Hauler, Tackle pilot, Sub. Cap. pilot, Capital pilot, Scanner (my favorite), Gate Camper, Pirate, Fleet Commander , i´ve been in Npc faction wars, massive alliances Null sec wars, you name it over the last 10 years... All in a massive social framework. Outside of combat in Star Citizen after ten years... you carry boxes. Sorry let me correct it, you STILL carry boxes. Everyone is asking where is exploration gameplay, the manufacturing gameplay, org. Stuff... etc. I just want to know WHAT is going to be that gameplay, and the fact the answer is still BOXES...... PS, EVE Tip for that low sec mining! . EVE is about Situational awareness, have your ship pre-aligned to a warp point, Keep spamming the scanner, have safespots scatterd in the sys, see whos is in local and look at their Killboards, look at EVE MAP before entering a SYSTEM see how many ships have been detroyed last hour, the list could go on. But the best one is try not to fly alone! :P
Servers are only half full the last weeks, there's around 50 people in each server at EU prime time (I don't know about US) ghost hollow is constantly broken. Wake of disaster is always empty. No one hunts you down if you have a crime stat. Last jump town was practicing tractor beaming not fighting. everybody has loads of AUEC so you don't need to run trade routes. Add a broken flight model and the usuals bugs on top. I think most crews who like pvp and search for it moved on, the 50 people in the server are the lone players who hide from other players and avoid the 'popular' places. let's hope 4.0 brings some updated beside the tech, cause CIG is screwing up big time the last two releases.
I'm all for letting him have his sort of predator based gameplay in high-risk systems. But it should be all but impossible for him to ever fly in Stanton assuming they are able to implement and jack up security. Have a 10 most wanted list or whatever and if it's detected in a low risk system there should be dozens of enforcement vehicles dispatched
Concerning the Freelancer argument: I am not sure if it maybe is an artistic license problem. And I sooo agree with you there Mike! That would solve so many problems. We still were able to quantum away from the Tradelanes and find our own ways... It really is kind of a no brainer... But it would not be 6Ds of freedom... probably. They probably hope to have the Jumproutes all going approximately through the same spots. Maybe thats why they wanted to put that big ass Tollstation between Arc Corp and Hurston. A place where everyone has to come through...
One of the defining things in EVE is the fact players find ways to break 'rules' such as: killing players in High Sec space, outside stations or gates. But, like you said SaltE: EVE players are all on one server and until SC gets onto one, unified server the numbers will not be there for slating PvP thirst.
Mike doesn't seem to understand EvE... It doesn't have have 'Highways' for cargo... it's the opposite. Eve is all about creativity in hauling cargo - not making it Simple Button dumb for pirates to gank you. In Eve we have Jump Freighters which can actually bypass jump gates. We have covert ships that are immune to warp scramblers. We have cloaking ships that don't show up on radar or visually. Eve is a master class in game theory.
There is a ton of people on either side of the PVE or PVP curtain. We are all for PVPVE servers. However if they force trade lanes, we believe it would really push the pure PVE players over the edge as being able to jump random is the only loop chance they have, and we need them to keep the verse alive. We PVP some weekends and its not impossible to find people, it does take some time to find them though, feels like they want insta gratification BF COD ability to find players to get the PVP gratification
I mean, he's correct. Piracy blows and needs the 9/10 npcs showing up to fill the void. That or server meshing to chug 200 people in your immediate area but even then it's just going to make Piracy harder because more people are going to be showing up in your net and more chance for force to show up in that net that can end your piracy sesh. Like anyone telling me pvp piracy is any different than PvE pirating has lost the plot. You disable ship, you go on, kill the pilot, loot ship. What's the fucking difference? It's clubbing seals as a gameplay loop, it's not Sea of Thieves pvp where you fight over a box...there is no fighting, cargo ships cannot fight back. If anything NPCs will be harder because they'll likely come with escorts because they don't have to actually balance cost. The only thing you lose is someone in the chat box flaming you for being a piece of crap. I do think turning this game into Sea of Thieves is both impossible and incredibly stupid and would drop like 50% of their audience at least. Impossible is the most clear thing here as Sea of Thieves is 5 ships dropped into a small ass map where you can see 50% of the map in the distance at all times. I think PvP specifically is going to just not be piracy focused...piracy is PvE with a chance at PvP. PvP is faction fighting at pvp sanctioned areas like Ruin Station where they design the game around ensuring players smash into each other. The problem is that "jumptown" isn't a constant event, it's not even a well designed event (literally a fucking trailer with a spawner on it)...like SPK is more fun than Jumptown, Jumptown should be deleted and they just make an actually interesting outpost with levels and design and variables that actually is worth playing King of the Hill over.
he has a point with catching ppl, if you played eve, you know you never JUST warp to the next gate, but i agree with you, with 100 player servers you just don't have enough traders moving on a certain route
The roads to high value comodities should be the dangerous paths, not the routes to a trade hub. Realistically, a trade hub's highest routes would be the highest protected things apart from the hub itself.
I have to disagree about not doing dog legs (military term for non straigth paths to a target location) when trying to bring cargo back to a city. After getting interdicted once I automatically pick a random OM marker to jump from at the minimum. If its really valuable i will jump to or toward another moon then jump to the world and circle in from the backside to the city. If i got mediocre cargo then i will just hit the city world and not care but usually i will do the bare minimum to not be a straight line from gold etc sites. The thing that really got me doing dog legs was all those interdiction markers. As much as i hated them it made it clear straight lines from popular spots were dangerous. SC may have a lot of players but in each server is 100 people but you got a larger space than eve has in a single system so you just don't run into people without a lot of running around.
honestly I don't understand how he streamed the game for THAT long. 1 week would have been fine. Star citizen is not a very streamable game in its current state. And that's AFTER the recent content drops. There's just not enough interesting stuff to do and that's mostly because encounters with other players outside of stations and landing zones are so rare it's like you're hunting for unicorns. and if you join a max pop server, the desync is so bad, even when you run into someone else, both of you have to shoot at after images. The universe is too big for only 100 people yet its too unoptimized for more than 30. Server meshing can't get here soon enough cause til that day comes, this game will be nothing but a joke to the general gaming community.
