This was such a momentous occasion in Starfleet history - a captain and first officer meet an admiral who isn't insane and/or evil! It only took until the 32nd century for it to finally happen!
Admiral Forrest (ENT)/Admiral Paris (VOY): Are we a joke to you? There would be other possible ones like Picard, Janeway and Freeman, but those two are the most notable ones
Well, by this time, Section 31 who controlled a lot of the bad Admirals has been destroyed for over 500 years. They got on the bad side of Bashir, Data, and Spock.
Generally, literature follows the zeitgeist of the day. We have an overabundance of misbehaving senior ‘authority’ figures… so it becomes a recurring theme in our popular fiction.
@@tasmanianbadger True! It's similar to how in the mid 20th century we started seeing more "bad cop" movies. Before that, movies portrayed police and detectives as heroes who stood by the law and always did the right thing, but when television showed that police were imperfect and even resorted to brutality, a lot of modern media portrayed police (and other protection organisations) as people who do their job through any means necessary. You have Pulp Fiction portraying questionable cops, you have government agencies like the FBI and CIA portrayed as morally grey or even downright bad. The media of today is a reflection of current events Star Trek also took part in the world climate too, even since the very beginning. When cold war tensions were high and black people rights were still in the process of being fought for, you had Chekov and Uhura as part of the main bridge of a starship!
@@kookie_2178 one of those awful Resident Evil movies, i think he was in the 2nd & 3rd movie, was a good character but not quite Carlos from the games.
Holy balls. I've never watched this show but I can tell you this. If they are ever low on power all they have to do is shut off %10 of the lights and they will have enough power to do anything they need to. Holy shit that's a lot of lights.
They spent a season all on the mirror universe. Everyone in that universe is light sensitive. I think starfleet is supposed to represent hope also. This shows they didn't get sent to the mirrorverse and even 900 years later starfleet still wants to represent hope etc. That's my take on why its so bright
Oded Fehr is perfect in this role. He has the gravitas, the quiet confidence and screen presence to bring the Admiral to life in the very best way. Great casting.
Ardeth Bay, Ras AlGhul, Dr. Fate, NKatu the Mummy, and Admiral Vance... He needs a SW role to get his proper nerd crown. I totally agree, he is top notch casting. He just oozes starfleet ideals so much that you are waiting for him to be evil. Twist? He is exactly what he says. I was so pleased. I look forward to more 31st century ST with him. The fact his HQ literally looks like a flame being kept alive is apt.
@MrHoppers002 I think I like them? I also like the blue Discovery uniforms so I am fine without them changing but looking forward to seeing more of the new uniforms!
Vance’s uniform has a certain vibe. That shade of grey combined with the admiral rank insignia that looks like the red and gold gorget patches of German generals makes me wonder if where is character arc is going to go. Could be nothing, but it wouldn’t be the first time that science fiction has taken inspiration from the German military’s wartime uniforms
It’s a woke show female and minority led; you know exactly where his character arc is going. He is there purely to be the patriarchal leader Burnham shoots down in the end and proves wrong and ultimately win over.
@@rayeasom oh no, how could Star Trek dare have prominent female and minority characters, that’s sooo new to the show, they’ve never had that, and definitely not from the first series or anything like that
@@somethingelse516 yes they did. The point I was making though is that the character of the admiral didn’t need to be in the show, he was there solely as the white straight patriarch with the ole purpose of being taken down a peg by Burnham. In none of the other iterations of Star Trek was there an ensemble character there purely with no other reason than to provide an opportunity for minority to show superiority over them and they fact that in discovery he was one of the only white straight human males took things to the extreme woke levels.
@@rayeasom why do you people see race in everything, I see a subordinate officer persuade their superior to see their point of view, something every other captain/commander has done in Star Trek history? Also white men are a minority on earth (and that’s not even considering the rest of the federation), I find it odd that y hey put one in such a prominent position, smacks of tokenism to me. Should have a female of East Asian heritage to be more representative of reality instead … oh that’s right they did but the SWJ’s probably insisted on having this minority dude as the authority figure instead, political correctness gone mad I say
They've done a great job through the years of giving us exemplars of wise leadership -- and of well-integrated, virtuous thinking people dealing with challenges and growing in the process. Especially with Saru. We have to hope that millions of young people ("kids") are soaking it all up, for the future's sake.
It’s actually kind of sad that the Federation has almost completely fallen apart. Though I must say, I like their new tailors and it’s a good thing that they later rebuilt.
I wouldn’t say smug I’d say apprehensive caution a ship that was reported to be destroyed nearly a millennium prior and it just magically shows up again and you know you can’t afford to take too many risks
Sooo... They promote Ensigns (the lowest officer rank) to be second officers on star-ships (despite there being plenty of lieutenants and higher ranks) and a Lieutenant is the head of security for Starfleet HQ and the civilian federation government... Does this make no sense to anyone else? What do Lt Commanders, Commanders etc actually do anymore :S I was honestly surprised an Corporal wasn't the head of all federation ground forces or something.
Likely the writhers not understanding that other officers below the rank of Captain generally perform most staff officer functions. Normally a Vice-Admiral or Captain (N) would serve as security chief to the chief of a military branch
@@TheDeviousxDexter Thing is, it's not like the US Navy is a small organization and the writers.directers etc couldn't find an expert to ask... I mean I'm not a fan of this show anyway but this level of ineptitude on a fairly well known topic of military ranks (as they are present in various forms in all sorts of things like the Police and fire as well) makes the show... cartoonish to me, you know what I mean? It's so far beyond silly that it makes everything entirely unbelievable for that respective episode.
She's chief of security of Starfleet Headquarters, not of all the Federation. A very diminished Starfleet. It's kind of a tradition in Star Trek. Chiefs of security are mostly lieutenants it seems: Lt. Pavel Chekov (Enterprise NCC-1701), Lt. Natasha Yar, Lt. Worf (Enterprise D), Lt. Daniels (Enterprise E), Lt. Malcolm Reed (NX Enterprise), Lt. Tuvok (Voyager), Lt. Shaxs (Cerritos), Lt. Ash Tyler (Discovery). They are just following tradition. Besides, the chief engineer on DS9 was not even an officer: Chief O'Brien. On Voyager, B'Elana was only Lieutenant junior grade.
@@Xerxes2005 Not really, chiefs of security are often lieutenants on starships as security even on a sovereign class is likely to be less then 150 personnel, but this is mostly from them all being in the same command chain in naval terms it is more likely to be a marine captain but star trek didn't want to get the ranking system confused with 2 separate structures, in any case heads of security on star bases are normally Lt commanders. You can't use Voyager as a set piece for anything, not only is it extreme circumstances it's extreme circumstances with 2 amalgamated crews. Chief O'brien always was a bit confusing to me but that is the exception not the rule though it never helped continuity and one bad decision doesn't excuse this one, the chief of security of Federation HQ is also subordinate to an awful lot of Starfleet which seems unhelpful for that position. Also as a note Starfleet is not likely to be that diminished in terms of manpower, the overwhelmingly vast majority of personnel would not be on starships, even if only 0.1% of the Federations population was in starfleet they would have 10's of millions of people left at this point. No excuse offered for making an Ensign the captain of the ship though?
@@Delogros No excuse needed. Saru gave a perfectly reasonable explanation. All of the other officers were still having trouble adapting to their unique situation. He observed that Tilly was adjusted better than most and had demonstrated this on several occasions.
Think back to TOS and TNG. Humans were very aggressively colonizing new planets, even though they didn't really need to. Given the way that the Burn wiped out most of the starships in the galaxy, it would have been doubtful that scattered Humanity even tried to return to Earth. The reverse also applies, as the United Earth Defense Force had aliens among them. Which implies that aliens living on Earth at the time of the Burn were allowed to remain rather than being forced to try to make their way back to their homeworlds.
That's the one thing i always hated about every scifi series/movies. We as Humans on this planet can't get along without killing each other. For some reason, they want us to believe that humanity will be the saviour of the entire universe.
@MrHoppers002 Plus they seem to have let Senna Tal hangout on Earth for a few years to try to rally Starfleet. Earth didn't seem to have any issue with the Federation, they just didn't trust Discovery initially. Makes sense Starfleet wouldn't have an issue with them even if they are probably somewhat disappointed with Earth's isolationism.
Given that Starfleet is short on starships in the present time, they are probably fine with UEDF protecting Earth since they cannot spare the resources to do so. I am sure that they would like United Earth to rejoin. But in the current circumstances that is unlikely, so they are focusing on more immediate issues.
@@reginald_280 After the Burn incident was solved and found a new source of dilithiums, I think United Earth is keen on rejoining the Federation again but they would keep their own UEDF military for a while as Starfleet is rebuilding their fleet again , but I doubt that United Earth would designated again as capital of the Federation as they are still on trauma on the Burn Incident
@@marlondavis1230 It's been a while since I watched, so I suppose everything's possible, but my memory is that it was strongly implied they were lovers.
@dauwenkust he's really not. We've seen multiple other non-Trill meeting the new hosts of symbionts they were close to and none of them were so rude. None of them broke connection with the new host except Beverly and even then, it was reluctantly, gently, and with the explanation that she was still in love with the Trill but couldn't handle the uncertainty of host-change. Vance is being an ageist dick.
@@LAKnightAuthorAlso Vance is a Fleet Admiral and he is an Ensign. He was basically saying that "You have my friend's memories but don't even think you can use them to curry any favors from me."
@ff3player first, Adira doesn't use he/him pronouns. This is mentioned in multiple episodes. Second, if that was his reason for talking to Adira that way and destroying their friendship like a racist jerk, that makes it worse, not better. Because assuming a Starfleet officer you used to be best friends with is suddenly greedy, corrupt, and lazy just because he died a couple times is a garbage thing to think. Besides, Sisko was an ensign who became such besties with a multi-medal-winning galactic hero ambassador 50 years his senior that when Curzon Dax died, Sisko specifically requested Dax's new host be assigned to Deep Space Nine. And when that host died, the new host - also an ensign - sought out then Captain Sisko, a high-ranking ambassador, fleet commander, and religious leader, and ended up staying friends with him. Vance was being a racist/species-ist jerk to Adira for no reason other than snobbery. It doesn't make sense with how great he is about everything else.
@@LAKnightAuthor First: Just because Sisko was able to maintain a friendship with 3 of Dax's lives doesn't mean that everyone can. While reassociation may forbid romantic relationships with hosts who romantically involved in previous lives some Trill even took it as far as to not associate with any of their previous hosts friends, family and colleagues, beyond the rare chance encounter. Second: Any intelligent and civilized beings know that biology doesn't care about your feelings.
I believe it's not that they don't know what prions are, they are just surprised to see them again, I know in other star trek material, they hint that medical science has eliminated a great many illnesses and it's possible prion diseases might have been one of them. But because they haven't had to deal with them in a long time they've basically forgotten how they cured it to begin with. Or.... the writers are just winging it.
Well, 23rd century Starfleet did wipe their records of Discovery and its crew. So he has to take a lot on faith here, especially since for some reason telepaths are in short supply in the future.
She doesn't say very much, but Ms Jackson stands at attention during the whole scene. In that snug fitting Starfleet uniform, you just can't take your eyes off of her.
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️ SHIIIIIT! The once stunningly beautiful Oded Fehr has gotten old just like the rest of us!! PHUCK, I HATE REALITY!!!! He’s almost unrecognizable from his younger self😭😱⁉️
Senna Tal and Charles Vance were lovers? based on the tone of his voice, body language and conversation between Adira Tal and him suggested me they had more than a friendly relationship
I haven't seen any of "Discovery", so I have no idea what's going on. It would be nice if the description would tell more about the clip. I saw ST:TOS when it originally aired, ST:TNG, ST:DS9, and 1.5 seasons of ST:Enterprise -- haven't got see anything after that, except for two of the new movies, which I didn't much care for.
TLDR + obvious spoilers. Discovery had to jump from the 23rd to the 32nd century at the end of season 2 because they have something onboard that they couldn't get rid of and couldn't allow to fall into anyone else's hands since it could have shifted the balance of power in the galaxy (it was just an excuse to move the show to the far future and be freed from existing canon). In the 32nd century they find out that the Federation and other warp capable civilizations were nearly destroyed 150~ish years before by an event called the Burn, basically all the dilithium suddenly went boom and most ships with it, and that the Federation is a shadow of its former self trying to rebuild.
I could not finish the first season and stopped watching Discovery. Some of the clips I have been seeing recently look much better, but I do not know what is happening or what season the clips are from.
Seasons 3 and four are significantly better than 1 and 2 basically they had to jump to the future, their was an event that cause almost all dilithium to be destroyed and starfleet is trying to rebuild, this is discovery finally location and arriving at starfleet HQ
I seriously quit watching STD, I simply couldn't finish the last season it was so bad...which is crazy because I'll watch TOS episodes that I've watched a 100 times...and enjoy it!
God the writing in this show sucks. It just gets worse and worse. They should have just made a Star Wars like they wanted to, instead of... whatever TF this is.
Like, why does the admiral's team have to show up physically? Isn't this the 31st century? Do they not have email or text messages or something that doesn't require staff to move physically to the admiral? And why are they speaking in front of Discovery crew? The crew hasn't been vetted. I mean, do you speak OPSEC?
@@lezhilo772 They can show up virtually, only visible to the admiral. The admiral is wasting their time, and disclosing secrets to untrusted folks. Manage a large team and get back to me.
@MrHoppers002 Sure he's busy. No need for his staff to physically move to him. No need for his staff to disclose secrets to untrusted folks. And given the admiral has a lot on his plate, why is he even addressing the Disco leadership? The Disco folks should be in holding until the admiral has time to deal with them. Management 101.
@MrHoppers002 In this future they can manifest walkways and furniture at will. They have advanced AI. Given these 'facts,' the belief the admiral can't manage staff virtually is ridiculous.
Future!Starfleet personnel probably assume that, since their location is cloaked and the visitors in question are speaking to the Fleet Admiral, then they are probably allowed to be there. As for reporting in person, he's the *Fleet Admiral.* One doesn't just fire off an email to him. If something is important enough to merit his personal attention in real time then he doubtless expects to be informed directly.
It always was all of those things even in Old Trek. How many times did Starfleet get completely taken over by some conspiracy or alien solely due to the neglect, arrogance and pride of its leaders? Quite a few times
I would enjoy you content better if you didn't take 30 seconds, at the end, to show pic's of other shows - just show the main story. The extra garbage is why I gave it a thumbs down.
I'm supposed to believe that they have entire sections of Starships and crewmembers that are completely holographic, but their medical Bay can't be expanded any further? This show just finds new ways to be stupid.
They are in a solid confined space, inside an space confined space. Holodecks never grew beyond their walls. The idea of limitless space inside them was the stupid one. Ever thought about that?
@@MariaMartinez-researcher That's not what "Tilly" said earlier. Then again, one shouldn't expect consistent writing prowess from a show like this. I conceed to your point.
The admiral was a character with one job; he was a one dimensional character there to play the role of the patriarchal leader for Burnham to shout down and make to look the fool when she was right all along.
Well, just when I thought std sucked as bad as it possibly could, cbs/paramoron goes and shows me that their ineptitude for crap and skill at destruction have no bounds. Starting in 2009, Star Trek is being ruined.
Sure it does. It's called losing your audience. And I wouldn't call it hate, it's simply the ruining of something millions of people enjoyed growing up. Who wants that? A program that was once substance is just now style. Discovery is a sterile Trek rip-off dependent on more lights and flash than Christmas itself. Jesus, the cast look like a bunch of PC elves. This show would have been much better received if it were called Orville: discovery.
Apparently there is none. Vance left it clear that Starfleet and the Federation are the same thing now, and he is in charge of everything. Also, the president used to work with the Federation Council, but you bet that doesn't exist now. It never seemed much useful or influential, anyway.
There may not be a president of the federation in this situation in times of emergency martial law can be declared and a country can come under military control until I government can be reestablished
@@Nowthisispodracing4 Nope just everything after the cancellation of Star Trek Enterprise. Why is it whining if I find this series sub par? I just doesn't have the same magic that those shows did. The Orville did a bang up job with capturing the same feel.
Lmao literally Starfleet headquarters, and their sickbay is overflowing and has like 8 beds. This show is so jumbled sometimes, no sense of scale. They have like 200 ships out there, why aren’t the refugees in their sick bays too?
Absolutely the worst Star Trek show ever. Can't even write an original story line of it's own. Actors are deplorable. G. R. would have never allowed this travesty to see the light of day.
You would never have Deep Space Nine if Roddenbery was alive either. because it was against his "Utopic Future" idea. So i don't see a validity to that statement
@@mertyol DS9 was at least entertaining though, and never promoted Nog when he was an Ensign (The lowest officer rank in starfleeet) to command of the station... I am ok is on STD visuals, most of the sound and even probably 80% (temper tantrum dilithium destroying kids aside) of the story but things like that which are so obviously dumb piss me off, same thing with the turbo lift space which is literally bigger then the ship itself.
@@josephlatourette8329 1) you have to watch it to decide if you like it if you are going to be fair to the show 2) If you don't like it you are entirely entitled to express that criticism/dislike.
@@Delogros this is true you do have to watch something to find out if you'd like it but you don't have to go online and claiming it's the worst thing you've ever seen just shut your mouth and don't watch the show if you don't like the show
