An upper that chafes your foot so much that it bleeds significantly is more than a minor gripe, in my opinion. That's a major issue. Of course, it could always just come down to your unique foot shape, but that's a lot of blood. That doesn't just seem like some minor rubbing that won't affect more than a few people. That would definitely keep me away from this shoe.
I bought a Saucony Triumph 20 and had some problem also with the upper. The inner lining has some quality issues where part of the rubber lining is curling out and get into the position of 1 of my toes. After trying to adapt to that I think it feels really uncomfortable and therefore I went back to the store and tried another pair of triumph 20 (I really like the shoe and I used to be wearing the previous triumph model) but shocking enough the new pair of triumph 20 I tested on, have exactly the same issue.. end up getting a new balance and probably never go back to Saucony again.
I’m a very lucky boy and got sent the shoe as well so I don’t have to think about forking out big money for this one. The value is in the Pro 3 from both brands you mentioned as both discounted. I am buzzing that you liked the shoe as I tend to find myself getting on with the same ones as you. Anyway thanks for the VERY detailed video which was awesome I’m off now to run in mine for the first time ❤
Looking forward to what you have to say about it. I've ran about 30 miles in my new Saucony Endorphin Speed 3's. All training runs for Manchester in April. Liking the 3's so far but don't feel super shoe to me at the moment.
Fordy, will u do a review too? 100 miles review...i like the mix too that kofuzi, believe in the run n you etc bring to the viewers. Some days i want My fordy, some days i want My kofuzi n other days i am a believer. Its nice to be able to choose. With love. Peace ✌️❤️
This shoe really works me for me because of the stability it holds. I have flat feet problems and pronation, it’s the only super shoe I’ve found that has worked for me. Gonna be using these in the 3200 tomorrow
I also got this shoe donated as brand new to my Xc team and I was able to grab them off my coach. These have been working for me since and ima definitely consider buying a pair when I’m done with my current ones
Great review, Love the fact that you added the science with the foam. Have been watching your reviews since the start, and your content keeps getting better. well done keep it up.
I bought a pair of Endorphin Speed 2s to get familiarized with a plated shoe and oh my god: the bounce, the rocker! Can't imagine running in a taller shoe anytime soon
@@fabsterun 1 and 2 faster and bouncier. 3 is not even a good daily trainer for me. I think its the plate it doesn't work for my foot shape. I'd rather run in the first 2 as a daily trainer too (but I don't).
100% agree that the Endorphin Elite makes it super fun to push the pace. It's really easy to go fast. I do differ from Mike in that I really like the oddball heel construction and didn't have any chafing. I'm 22ish miles into my test with a 16 mile long run coming up on Saturday. I'm highly considering using this to race a 10k in a couple weeks.
Super helpful review as usual! I am encouraged re your take on the Pro3 upper, since my marathons take longer than yours I’ll keep that as my race day shoe but will also use it for workouts. If I were a 3:00 marathoner I’d absolutely go for it! Thx Mike!🌊
I wonder how long the foam lasts on this one. One of the reasons I love the Alphafly V1's over the Vaporfly was because even with the foam energy returns diminishing after 300 miles, it still was a perfect trainer because of the airpods still making it a more responsive and leg saving trainer then anything else out there imo.
Seeing this video makes me miss running so much! I recently had surgery so my physician advised me not to exert much effort for two months as it may affect my incisions. Might as well get this shoe for now and wait til I get an Ok from the GP.
Informative! 👍 I hope we make a stand against these ridiculous prices. I am not paying more than 199 for shoes and if it is 199 it should be the best of the best
Great review! Been waiting for this one. How do you think it stacks up against the Alphafly and Vaporfly? The latter certainly a cheaper option while it seems like a more direct comparison to the former. Curious to hear your thoughts on that.
I think there is a worrying trend towards putting too much rocker on shoes. OK it makes the shoes feel faster, because you are constantly being tipped forwards, but the price is having the shoes dictate a non natural running style. If the rocker starts too far back, or is too extreme, your foot starts to feel for ground, to toe off, and the ground isn't there, thus the toe curl Kofuzi mentions. The natural mechanism of running is foot lands, the bones in the feet spread to reduce impact, as you move forwards onto your toes for toe off the foot shape changes, the arch becomes more pronounced, tightening the plantar fascia, which locks the anchor bone in place, for a solid propulsion phase. Modern shoes work against this, with high toe to heel drop, high rocker and carbon plates taking over and dictating the way the feet work. The result is weaker feet, a weaker arch, and then further reliance on the carbon plate shoes to perform functions of the feet that the feet themselves would normally do. So while I am not against carbon plate shoes for racing, and some training, there are some good arguments for using zero drop and minimalist shoes in the training mix.
Fairly similar to The Run Testers' review. None of them seemed to really like it for anything slower or longer than flat out, shorter runs. They also had issues with the comfort. Not sure I could ever run fast enough to get the best out of this shoe... and of course I'd never spend that much money on a pair. TBH it seems like a miss from Saucony this time (unless you don't have to pay for it ie you're elite or a RU-vidr).
that's funny. I watched their review this morning (after I had filmed my own thoughts), and I couldn't help but think that they somehow had a completely opposite experience to mine.
It's interesting how over at the run testers 5/5 think this is purely a race day shoe and exclusively geared towards elite runners. You enjoyed it at slower paces as well (or at least didn't find it as awkward, wonder if that's because you are a 100% forefoot striker.
Thanks for the review, Mike. I am a huge Saucony fan, but I think this shoe is probably not for me for several reasons. First, I think "Elite" here really truly means "Elite" runner (or at least sub-elite like you) and the shoe is designed for "Elite" runner's needs, not for an aging runner like me. 😅 Based on several reviews (including yours) this new PWRRUN HG foam seems to require a very fast runner to take advantage. I am not convinced that 95% energy return foam will translate to a dramatic increase in running economy. It is a number that is thrown to impress but without context it means very little. What was the energy return of PWRRUN PB foam? Secondly, I am not sure that upper would work for me. I like Endorphin Pro 3 upper and really like the sock like hold that Alphafly provides. Finally, of course the price is an issue. One good thing that might come out of this is that we might see more Endorphin Pro 3 deals. I would not mind buying another Endorphin Pro 3. I will invest more effort in increasing the volume and quality of my training, do more strength training and get better recovery/sleep which can make more impact for me than this shoe would provide me at this moment. In terms of shoes to pair, I am surprised that you didn't mention Endorphin Pro 3. Endorphin Pro 3 could be the training shoe (and has plenty of rubber outsole to last) to pair with Endorphin Elite for a fast runner. I think Kinvara Pro will be more interesting for me.
Price is the tough pill to swallow on this one. For now, I'll keep running in the Pro 3s for a race day shoe. That said, looking forward to price reductions in the Pro 3 now that the Elite is out - I'll pick up some pairs at discount for daily trainers because the Pro 3 is just that good. Eventually, I might grab a pair of Elites to play with . . . but probably a year from now when they are on deep discount.
Saucony has been a little trickier to predict when it comes to discounts. From what I’ve seen (and admittedly, this isn’t something I keep a super keen eye on), it isn’t always guaranteed that older models go on sale. I’d be happy to be corrected on this though if anyone has a different experience
Saucony using a good old higher efficiency marketing gimmick again. This is like buying a gaming mouse, which they make you think a higher DPI is better ''10.000 dpi'' mouse make you better gamer. Meanwhile, people mostly use between 400 to 800 DPI settings. 10 years ago, when running shoes were mostly EVA you would get 50-60% energy return max. Now companies like Saucony claim their shoe can do 95% which is mostly up to the runner due to different metabolic efficiency. Whenever I see biomechanics expert talk about this topic, they are not sure higher actually is better for the runner. They are mostly convinced there is a specific ''goldilocks zone'' for running efficiency than the specific number for all runners.
in my Wave Rebellion Flash video, I mentioned something similar, although I didn't say it with as much precision as you did. Energy return is great, but too much seems like it might hurt. I need some cushion too.
They’re very different shoes. Zoom X has more of the quick compression quick rebound and the plate position seems to emphasize quick turnover, where a predominant feeling I get from the Endorphin Elite is the speed roll up front while the the PWRRUN HG is a denser experience
Great review this, thank you. I bought the Endorphin Pro 3 on the recommendations of you, FOD and EddBud and it's insanely fun so won't be switching up any time soon! My first carbon plate was The Artist and the difference between that and the Pro3 is night and day, for me (and with taxes and shipping to get another Artist pair was more than the pro3).
Thx for the reviews!! I really like the Endorphin line, but for me as a slower and heavier runner the Endorphin Shift is the go to shoe in the line (and not a lot of reviews are found for the Shift)!
Huge fan of both the pro 3s, not sure if I want to spend the 275 after seeing a few reviews. Love the bounce of the Adidas, not the weight, love the roll and weight of the Saucony wish it had more pop. Is it worth the 50 for the elite? What say u?
For me (6ft 92kg, running between 4 and 5mins/km) the elites feel far livelier than the pros. For me they make the pro feel flat. I am a heavier runner with a forefoot strike and I think this helps me activate the foam. IMO whether you will get on with this shoe is highly gait dependent
Awesome review as always. The "Elite" name implies this shoe is designed for sub 2:30 marathoners. How would this shoe work for us mortal 3:30 or more marathoners?
Saucony is going full Apple with their terms here. Try not to divine too much by the words Pro and Elite. But they have specifically mentioned to me that they have designed this shoe for experience, not ability. it's not meant only for elites or pros I mean, I definitely enjoy this shoe, and I'm a 2:58 guy, so nowhere near the 2:30 demarcation you applied
How does the Elite compare to the Adios pro 3 in terms of midsole density and characteristics as well as width? I have a wider foot but have been using the Endorphin Pro 3 with no issues. I was going to try the Adios pro 3 but not sure if I should go for the Elite now. I'm a higher cadence runner and mainly focus on half marathon and marathons. Thanks!
Bit late to the party here. But...i think your foot strike is close to mine, lateral and mid to forefoot landing. With this, the valorfly did not work for me as my foot slaps inwards after landing. Adidas pro l land awkwardly also, in the shop they felt great , for 8 strides:) asics speed sky I feel im landing too far back. Saucony pro 3 i feel i can foot strike naturally, as i want to. Good for triathlon but not that poppy for road racing. Is it same for saucony elite? Can you land laterally mid to forefoot and have a wide enough shoe to push off nicely. Looking at your video you mention it does, but there was a bit of a weird landing position at times. Im still looking for 'the' marathon shoe. I thought adidas pro 3 was goong to be it. But not quite. Would you choose the saucony elite to do marathin race in?
I’d keep testing for yourself. It seems like you have a strong sense of what you want and an ability to test multiple shoes. My experiences are quite different from what you’re experiencing.
Still can't believe you haven't tried the prime x strung. The upper is amazing. The perfect shoe would be the adizero pro 3 mid and outsole with the strung upper.
I love love loved the original Prime X. I decided not to pick up the Strung at the $300 price point. And even though it sometimes goes on mega sale for $150, I'm just going to wait for Prime X 2 at this point.
Is this shoe good for an over-pronator with borderline narrow feet and flat feet, bunion on my right foot and mild planter fasciitis right foot)? I run a 5k on the road 4 times per week. I currently run in the Tempus. No issues with them. I want to try something with more juice.
thank you for the video. always nice to hear your opinion. i really wanted to like the shoes, but i find it hard to understand the strategy, is it an elite runner not a pro? aren't the endorphin pro 3 and the elite overlapping? the natural question is, are the elite better and faster than the pro 3 (to justify the extra cost?)
I think you have two presumptions that are not necessarily true that may be causing your confusion a) a company does not need to make one and only one race shoe. e.g. alphafly and vaporfly next b) elite and pro are words that don't necessarily have to have hierarchical meanings. see e.g. iPhone pro and iPhone Plus
@@massi888 Try and buy what works for you. Most shoes won't work for everyone, so I think they are simply laying out options while also capitalizing on people's obsession with trying THE fastest shoe.
What is considered as “daily trainer/ runner” for example… I run approx 3-4 miles every other day. Would this be a good shoe to upgrade to? Currently have the Endorphin speed 1.
10:14 do you think a little coconut oil on the top of your toes before putting on socks would have helped to prevent this? My pair is being shipped and I am curious if I will have the same issue, or maybe the oil would help. I am not looking to put a lot of miles on these shoes other than the marathon race. Thanks.
I’d rather hear the criticisms mixed in than repeated knee-jerk rave reviews which begs the question of credibility, especially if the shoes were provided free by the company.
I've watched at least 5 reviews on this shoe, at least 3 pro runners complained about upper and toe area design. Also the heel locked down with the little pad bother the run. I might try it on when it's out. But not really excited about it
just wonder why Saucony add this Endorphin Elite into their line up as the top racer while they already have the Endorphin Pro 3 ? Do they try to pair them like the Alphafly & Vaporfly in Nike line up or the Prime X & Adios Pro 3 in adidas ?
If what you believe is true, Kinvara Pro is the daily trainer companion to the Endorphin Elite, then Saucony made a huge marketing blunder. The “line” of the shoe, Endorphin, should be the line of shoe companion. Perhaps it should’ve been called the Kinvara Elite. Of course marketing and how shoes line up doesn’t change how good any of the shoes are, and the Endorphin and Kinvara shoes are outstanding.
there's a lot of weird but literally nominal marketing decisions made here. like, why have an Elite shoe and a Pro shoe? And why is the Pro in the Endorphin series a racing shoe but the Pro shoe in the Kinvara series a daily trainer? (I suppose if I'm wrong or misunderstand what the Kinvara Pro is, I'm less troubled by Saucony's choice of terms)
Yo Ko! Thanks for the video. Maybe it’s the firmness of the foam of Endorphin Elite that makes it feel taller than the Adios Pro 3 when standing on them.
Would this work for someone who runs 9-10 min/mile. I feel like the mid-speed runners would not compress the carbon fiber enough to gain benefits. Could result in a much stiffer run. ???
Hi, loving your channel and your depth of review. I'm a short guy and am only just getting into running. Could you suggest an entry level runner for a noob? Love your work!
I agree the E-Elite feels quite similar to the Prime X, also the geometry of these super max stack midsoles seem to be similar as well with the other being the Mizuno Rebellion Wave Pro which is the most aggressive of the bunch
@@kofuzi I think you will enjoy it, but maybe not as much as your AP3. The shoe is unsettling at first to walk in with its extreme drop off at the heal midsole, but as you getting going it’s not an issue for mid-foot/ forefoot runners, which is the sweet spot. Feels lighter & faster compared to Prime X and the rocker & bounce propels you similar to the Adios Pro 2 & Endorph Pro/speed. Was surprised they went with grippy stubby lugs for the outsole.
Shoe sounds poor after all the hype tbh. I dunno about anyone else but my fast and long run shoes can't have any faults. I ditched the alphafly 1 for the arch pain and that was the only fault they had. I think saucony have maybe changed too much hoping lots of changes might make it catch on when they should of just changed the foam and kept pro3 upper.
@@kofuzi NB elite v2 for faster runs and asics superblast for long runs. I always sway towards comfort. I actually couldn't name one fault with either.
Kofuzi - with the fit around the ankle, why aren't you using the other high lace hole? My experience is that if I use the second hole and loop the laces around I have a much tighter ankle fit.
I don't buy Nike but based on your Nike turbo review years ago I bought a pair. I loved that shoe and actually bought several pairs to stock up on. Just like I thought would happen, Nike discontinued the one shoe I liked from them and honestly my favorite running shoe of all time from any brand. In your opinion what is the 1 or 2 shoes available from any brand that comes closest to the feel of the original Nike Turbo. I miss the soft feel of the turbo while being responsive and lightweight.
Great video, thanks! Is the sole built into the shoe like the Endorphin Pro 3? I wear orthotics and pulled the sole out of the Endorphin Pro 1 but couldn't do that with the Endorphin Pro 3.
With the back part it seems to me that they tried to imitate the Fila k5r, that is used to put on the shoes without loosening the shoe. I have the Kr5 and it works perfect but maybe they made a mistake here.
One question. Is the insole glued in or removable? I used to train in a Nike Air Zoom Tempo Next % but have a chronic right heel issue so now am using Hoka shoes with a Protalus M-100 insert. The Nike Zoom has the insole glued in so I can't use the orthotic. Maybe all these lightweight high stack height shoes are unsuitable for use with an orthotic insert?
As someone with supination, so far those super shoes with the normal insoles glued works for me and my podiatrist is fine with them without the orthotics as long as I only race in them/train in the final days before racing with them. Everything else needs to be with my daily trainers and training companions to those super shoes (ie endorphin speed 3) with the orthotics.
Thanks for the review! Question - I have been running in Endorphin Speed 2 (I also had the first series) and I'm on my 4th pair - unlike anything that I ever ran on. I have 2 more pairs on the shelf. I also picked up the Endorphin Pro 2 because it was discounted, but when I tried them out on a fairly challenging workout run, I tweaked my IT band. They are much lighter, stiffer and less padded than the Speeds. I was wondering if you have a take on the Elite vs Pro 2 - will I have a similar experience, or are the Elites closer in feel to the Speed 2?
Great review and I love saucony shoes especially the endorphin pro line up but the elie is a disappointment too much money for a shoe that causes bleeding. That just killed it and not even worth a try.
Kofuzi, nice job seeing it pairs with the Kinvara Pro coming soon. 👌 I see you are near my former store location, I hope you shop it, FRESH THYME MARKET. Great store for all your healthy living needs. Let me know, I can hook u up 😉
Which shoe pod do you wear paired to your Polar watch? I just ordered the Polar Grit Pro and want a compatible pod to measure stride length, contact time, etc. Thanks
Hi kofuzi. As always thank you for a great reviews and you honest thoughts 👍🏻 One question not about the shoes: you used the FR255/955Solar for your run but in the studio you are wearing another black watch. Which is that? Venu2? Of something from Polar? Doesn’t look like the watch face of a Garmin :) Thank you!
Found it a bit weird when you talked about the pricing, you didn' t even mention the Vaporfly v2 which is available at around half of this one now. Even the Alphafly 2 is significantly discounted. See no reason to get this one then, when it is probably still not quite as good as the Nike's.
I've already mentioned three other shoes at a variety of price points, and those three also happen be shoes that I think have similar ride characteristics. now, if you want me to start comparing to other shoes that are dissimilar, I can do that, but this video was already about four minutes too long.
@@kofuzi Yep, makes sense to mainly compare it to shoes with a similar ride. But I think the Next% is still the best shoe on the market and most people think this. So then this one comes along that costs even more, that's why I would wish for a performance comparison.
@@kofuzi I heard many time it is a hard or aggressive shoe. after running in them I interpreted that as a bit stiff or rigid. More so when I would slow down. It actually hurts to walk in them. Running is better.
It is sad to see companies trying to charge so much for shoes in an effort to make running, the most humble and beautiful of sports, an elitist pursuit of the wealthy who can collect shoe rotations of thousand of dollars in price. I hope influencers muster up the courage to say enough is enough and fight to keep the sport pure even if this means loosing a few fans and likes.
A shoe sooo good I can only slow it down . Getting a pair,pinning a bib to it, sitting it othe start line of my next race then getting the hellout of the way 😂🏃♂️🏃♂️
With a rocker so agressive, i can only imagine people will start to develop certain overuse injuries a lot faster. Especially plantar fasciitis. I really wonder if they have data on that
@@kofuzi there are studies that show that rockers in running shoes can cause PF because by forcing the toes upwards, you stretch the fascia even more. that combined with high impact is recipe for disaster. But on the other hand studies also show that the rocker lowers the tension on the achilles tendon, which should be beneficial for PF (and achilles tendonitis). I havent found a good study yet that really compares extreme rocker curves like this to 'conventional' running shoes, but as a GP im a bit afraid some people will get injured because of extreme shapes like this
