A few years ago I bought a recast because at the time I didn't realize what it was. Lesson learned, original sought out and purchased, and now I try to do a little extra homework before any cash changes hands unless I'm absolutely certain of the source. Kris, Jeff, Ron, and Joseph all do great work. I haven't had a chance to check out any of Ed's stuff in person.
The comments speak VOLUMES. This hobby has hit an all time low, the posts in the comments beautifully illustrate the fact that this hobby does not have the maturity to support a healthy aftermarket structure. 80% or more of these people have no idea what is right and what is wrong, they would steal or help someone steal just to get a blob of resin into their possession. This "customer" is just as bad as the bum that steals the tires off a parked car at the airport or commits welfare fraud. They are dishonest greedy parasites who don't care how something makes it into their hands, as long as they get their hands on it and soon. The internet is full of Anthony Grimaldis and John Wileys, Greg Wanns and Shep Sheperds. Most of what you see for sale is recast and a lot of it is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy. Great video, by the way. The reason so many people comment the way they do is because they have nowhere near the talent needed to create a decent master, then cast and market it and stand behind a great product that nobody else could do. The most talent they could muster up might be to use their 40% off coupon to get some brand X resin starter kit and borrow cousin Jed's Modelhaus kit and dip it in silicone then start a Failbook page.
I closed down my company because of this. I went to a show in Toledo OH introduced new products and a few months later I went to show in Allentown Pa and my stuff was bootlegged on the table. I'll keep my stuff to myself.It is what it is you can fight all you want I don't think it will ever end.
No need to be rude and call people names for buying said remakes. Maybe, just maybe, they dont know any better and theyre just buying something they want because it looks cool and they're unaware its other peoples work. Theres many variables involved, no reason for judging and name calling. Speaking of remakes, where did the so called "professional" resin body makers get their original body to make molds from to duplicate resin bodies? Am I to believe they hand carved their own scale bodies from clay or wood and cast their resin molds from their work? No, they more than likely (not saying they did) used plastic bodies from model kits. Wouldn't that be considered "stealing" as well? I can be wrong but i highly doubt any model kit company i.e. revell, amt, ertl, monogram would give permission to anyone to use their product as molds to turn personal profit. Unless of course theyre getting a perecentage of the sales. Do these resin makers have permission to use model kit bodies as molds and are they paying a percentage of profits? If so, I apologize and stand corrected. Doesnt matter anyhow, in todays day and age 3d printing is taking over but guess what. Everybody will making parts from the original model kit companies parts i.e. revell, amt. Isnt that "stealing" as well?
April 25, 2018---Not into cars like you and other are, but understand where you're coming from. As to those who say this guy has no copyrights, etc. and just suck it up, as you said you get what you pay for. Now look at it from the guy who did all the work, but now it's YOU who did all the work instead. YOU had to do research on what ever conversion you have in mind and probably have HOURS looking at photos and probably having/using scale drawings for this conversion. How many hours did that take YOU? Now you have to scratch build YOUR prototype and I have no idea how these guys do it....a bunch of sheet styrene molded to shape or maybe polymer clay? How many hours have YOU gotten into building this prototype? And of course, there's the time and money spent on silicone for the FIRST MOLD and then resin to cast the part. How much money and time do YOU have invested now? And YOU haven't sold a single one yet. Don't know if this guy uses a vacuum machine or not, but probably. What's that going to cost YOU? Maybe the detail on your first resin copy isn't right/sharp, so back to YOUR original, taking time and trouble to fix that. ANOTHER mold and resin copy made this time, it' right. Again, YOUR money and time is invested. Now YOU have to get the word out so people will buy YOUR product and of course, YOU'LL probably make several molds so when orders do come in, YOU can fill/ship 'em quickly and promptly as no one wants to be told it'll be a couple of weeks before YOU will have more copies made. And don't forget about YOUR costs of the box, wrapping, etc.And now, enter ME. Oohhhh, that looks sssoo nice and order one, promptly making MY silicone mold/resin copies. MAYBE I'll put some bubble wrap around the product (boxes and product labels are expensive, so screw that) and so what if there are imperfections...I'M making money hand over fist. Money the original sculptor, which is YOU, ISN'T getting. I got back into modeling in late 2016 and going for 1/35th scale zombie/apocalypse dioramas. There are a lot of outstanding resin figures, but they're NOT cheap. They run from $10 to $30 (for survivors or zombies) and when you're looking at having up to SEVERAL DOZEN figures in a diorama, that ain't cheap and I simply don't have that kind of money since retiring. Black Dog is one of the more well known resin figure companies and outstanding quality. Then saw where China was also producing them and thought Black Dog had gone into some sort of business arrangement with one there. So I ordered 6 different figures usually at $6 a pop w/free shipping. Thing is, got NO box or box art... just placed in a small zip lock bag and into the padded mailing envelope. Also the quality wasn't there on a set of two women soldiers. One of their right legs was skinnier than the other, making it look a bit deformed. Yeah, it was a Chinese knock off. Haven't bought ANY resin figure from China since then. Thanks and now I return the soap box to someone else to stand on.
welcome to the real world mate. . its not a thief. he purchased it. he owns that body can do what he wants to it or re produce it as well. . scann it re print it or resin it. for half the cost of what your mates want for his. . anyone can print this shit mate. . welcome to life. i also do the same thing. copy them.
Excellent video and very well said. I am very cautious about buying aftermarket parts for that reason, but, I have bought from Fireball and will continue to use Joseph and support him, awesome products from Fireball. I will admit that I have done some resin casting of parts FOR MY PERSONAL USE ONLY, but never have I cast an aftermarket piece or sold any pieces, not going to happen. Thanks for the heads up on this guy. Cheers
Thank you for the advice Donn. I am wondering, do the guys that make these awesome molds that you showed here on this video, make a 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 (four door 1/25 scale)? I sure would love to find one and buy one from them if they do. :)
Not just limited to resin car bodies either. Been going on for years with the military figures, with them getting reproduced in China for pennies, and people buy them up because they are so cheap. The figures end up being crap, because they are a copy of the original figure, and the details never come out when it is a copy of a copy. Does Ed Fluck have a website or FB page? Would like to see what he has. And I have to agree with Fireball Model Works, while I haven't gotten the carburetors yet, I have picked up some 4X4 stuff for the Ford Bronco, and the quality and detail are second to none.
Thanks to big online sites, out of country dealers etc, I don't have a brick and mortar hobby shop inside of at least 75 miles of me. I always supported my local shop even if it cost a little more. By the time I added in some cases exchange rates, postage, taxes I was no further ahead. At least with my local shop, if I had a problem with a kit, they could work with me. Had a kit with a short shot part. (Should never have left the factory but it did.) My shop contacted their supplier and got a replacement kit. Try that from an online supplier. Pirates selling knock offs are thieves out and out stealing from someone else and stealing your money.
Thing is, your friends don't have a patent on the shape of their product so, in Capitalism and any other economic system, if someone can come along and reproduce the product, they're also entitled to sell it. Shame about your friends putting in all the R&D just to have it all recast by others but that's the name of the Capitalist game. What you're referring to as "theft" is really just nothing more than the taking of advantages and opportunities inherent to this economy. Worse, even, is that all your friend's hard work can simply be copied by a network of Chinese factories and subsequently recast in substandard resins and sold under the same name / model numbers right there on Amazon. There's not a damned thing anyone can do to counter any of this because mom & pop don't have anywhere near enough legal power to fight Amazon's pro-Chinese stance. I think what really hits hardest is that there's no such thing as business ethics anymore. Someone can absolutely come along and copy someone else's work, no matter how much time, effort and resources went into that work's development, and profit from it without batting a lash. The old "dog eat dog" euphemism applies well here, except that the honest dogs with integrity are the first ones to be consumed. Welcome to America, bud. The dynamic has changed from producing quality to competing with substandard competition by producing substandard crap. You can thank foreign outsourcing for every bit of this. America sold out and mom & pop took the hit.
ill stick to making my own for myself. funny you keep mentioning the poor quality of the "bootleg" resin parts because I have seen "reputable" parts full of flash warpage, bubbles and pockmarks because the maker is still using original molds when a silicone mold only lasts for so many castings before it craps out.
Don, I AGREE WITH YOU. I have seen the same thing happen in other things besides model bodies, When there is something good, and someone, weather one or a lot , steal the ides things happen. One the quality suffers, the knock off parts or whatever is cheap. Why do you think COKE has so much competition - WHY- every one wants to be the real thing. There ya got it. These f**k off need to come up their own ideas. You are right, buy crap, ya got crap. You buy quality, you have quality. I worked in aerospace for almost 30 years. When I fly I want quality parts in the jet eng's. Not some knock off. I hope you modelers understand, you are only hurting your self. When the quality parts go away you will be left with all these crap shops and wonder where are all those detailed bodies, LONG gone. You lost them by saving a little $. Cut back on that burger, coffee, whatever. BUY quality. You find the knock off in everything from shoes to real car parts. Someone trying to make it cheaper and picking your pocket. Nine times out of ten you are short changing your self. It breaks, wears out too fast, does not fit, something. I have been there. I only buy quality, from clothes to tires, everything. You will see.
I’m wanting to purchase a resin kit for a muscle car and I have no idea what to get can you give me a name or company where I can get a good kit without getting ripped off
I was wondering if it'd be possible for the genuine manufacturer to conceal very tiny subtle secret random but registered markings on the parts (individual unit) so as to later help smoke out the perpetrator.
If it not patented then anyone can copy it unfortunately, you can see that you are furious , laws arnt there to protect the small business guy unfortunately
It’s about The metal, you can't patent these anyway. Patents have to have a 'novel' aspect to them. Car or model design would be copywrite, however I don't think this would apply to scale models as they are essentially copies in their own right. Unless they are unique design.
Tell Eddie and Julie to make 1:18 resin with open hood. Lazy companies like Boss and GT spirit are making a killing with sealed Resin bubbles for the price of a high quality fully open diecast.
I know I'm setting myself up for one of your lectures, but I think I'd rather chop my own Olds, benefit from the experience, better myself as a modeler and pay Mr Revell his due reward. Before you start, as a Graphic Designer I've had thousands of dollars of my work ripped off, reverse engineered and reused on awful work. Thank God Johann Pachelbel can't hear his work with a beat on it.
+Steve Watts Now why would you think you'd get a lecture ? Modeling is what you make it . How you choose to go about it is your choice , and I have no problem with that at all . Never did , never will .... As for getting ripped off ? Evidently we both know that pain and believe me , I sympathize with you .... Plainly put , it sucks !
+Steve Watts No lecture whatsoever ... As for getting ripped off ? I know / feel your pain and sympathize with you on that score ... Sucks , don't it ?
Hi let me start out by saying I’ve bin a fan since your first RU-vid video I’ve learned so much about painting from you and I thank you for that and I agree with you to a point but here’s what I see I’ve purchased a few body’s from those company’s you mentioned and the quality is second to none and I choked down the price I paid chaise I know I’m getting good quality but as the older modelers pass on and there experience and knowledge goes with them all that’s left is the young kids that want to get into the hobby if they don’t then that’s going to hurt the hobby to in my opinion and some of the tools and parts are quite expensive I know of a couple of young modelers I’ve entroduced to the hobby that left it because of the cost if this keeps happening the there won’t be any body to take the place of the old timers that go to modelers heaven And there won’t beanubody to buy thr good quality resin parts as they get older and start making more money and can afford the parts I’m not saying your right or wrong just a different way to look at it just my opinion
Yeah, I'm sure bubba the recaster in his Mum's basement is going to find some clothes, get the El Camino running and drive into town to find a lawyer willing to take on an internet lawsuit.
First thought I had was is the issue that they are licensed to copy that car and the other people arent? I mean technically aren't they just creating a replica of the car, then someone comes along and creates a replica of that replica? I mean maybe I don't understand but personally I'm not so much worried about the cost of it as I am with I'm finding alot of the resin kits i've spotted and wanted either can't find anymore, or it says out of stock or unavailable, sold out. That's why I'm forced to buy a knock off.
Hello Don; Ahmen. When someone lists "a part" on eBay, how do you confirm the origin of the item? Unscrupulous people are known to lie. I've bought some beautiful resin pieces from known companies; Fisher, R&M of Maryland ,Modelhaus, Starter, Studio 27, LMM, Modelers. May they live forever, but no one does.
I agree with you Don. I can't stand a thief or a liar ripping people off. I used to love going to the model shows. Another thing that really burns me up is these dealers that shrink wrap models where you think you're buying an original kit when you get home the kit is not the kit you thought you bought and you've been taken. It gives all model dealers a bad name!
+Paul McWilliams Kathie and I were at a show looking at vintage kits . MPC Akron Arlen Duster kit caught my eye . Sealed in cellophane yet marked on the box , " Sealed complete vintage kit , missing instruction sheet " . She looked over to me with a questioning look , I just laughed and we walked away ... Uh uh ...
I can not afford the cost of a good quality resin part - but I will not buy a cheap rip off because I know that they are not worth anything. I can spend my time and money on factory kits and have plenty of personal satisfaction. Lately the main kit companies have been rereleasing the old kits that I built as a kid. Holding my breath for the '66 Sonny and Cher Mustang.
Could a product name or creators name be bonded into the mold so when produced, its part of the resin mold. This way, the rip off scammers are forced to do more work to clean it up and hopefully ruin their copy.
I have BJD dolls. They as well are made from resin and they get recast a lot. Me being an artiest I get so made when some one steels my work. It's not right and its illegal.
I am new to your channel already have learned a lot thanks but could you show us the ratio lacquer to paint you use your paint jobs are fantastic thanks
Alright so how do we know if the body or part was a custom made or recast from a kit? The bodies shown here how would we know if two different casters didn't do the same chopped body? I make some stuff but do enough custom work it would be obvious to spot a recaster. I also need to add are these bodies being cast an sold from copyrighted plastic kits? I have a revell 30 model a body I am casting but used the revell body to start with so didn't I steal there property? I have also bought junk resin an wouldn't consider hack recasters thiefs based on them not being able to cast a clean part as I see plenty of caster selling junk.
+Action Modeler There is obviously no perfect solution . However , by due diligence & paying attention as to who is who in the resin world , a lot of this can be stamped out . As to casters copying ? Although it is a competitive business , they do associate and talk to each other . Each has their own " niche " and it would be foolish to cast the same piece that others are offering . They avoid it like the plague ! The bodies in the video may have started off as bucks from kit offerings , but no longer resemble them in any fashion . The kit makers still profit due to the need of having to buy the kit to go along with the resin body to enable modelers to complete their build . As for " hack " casters ? There are plenty out there . Every day the questions pop up on how to begin casting . Most fail to realize it takes time and practice as does any other art form . Those that buy parts from other resin companies and recast the parts are thieves . Those that knowingly buy said product are just as bad , if not worse . Believe me when I say that I have first hand knowledge on this subject and have been the victim of it far too many times . Hence the reason for a ten year drought since the last set of DVDs were released . I simply went another route .....
Action Modeler them kits all started off as a revell amt or some other kind of model kit i am sure they didnt pay the 10,000 or more to make the dies or have the machines to extrude the plastic i knw i am a tool n die maker n if its wasnt made for some ones kit they bought they would put a patient on it but they cant because they don't have the ok from chevy buick or any other one i cast parts for my self dont sell any hell i scratch build turbos n give um away i love this hobby but 2 wrongs dont make a right them bodys he casts are flawless so any one who knws great work will buy the better car any ways it will work out for him no one in there right mind will buy the crap body n less u like putty n sanding for weeks
brother we make molds we call dies at work for extruder shops around this area and some roto molds witch they make some plastic stuff from they stole the parts from the big guys n that ass hole is robbing the little guy
Actually, the instant you create your artwork it is protected. NOW, if you register it, there is ADDITIONAL protection, like recovery of fees and punitive damages. Most of the misinformation floating around is coming from.... you guessed it, the re-casters !!! If you want to read up a bit go here www.copyright.gov/circs/circ40.pdf
I kinda wonder if these are even licensed to be made by the auto makers themselves? I have not built many cars but do think that the large companies purchase copy rights and such. Maybe these people producing these bodies have bought copy rights not sure. One thing is for sure quality will speak for itself these people building with a lesser product will still wonder why they can’t build to that next level. It’s money the auto industry would want a slice of the pie if there was actually big money to be made reproducing their bodies.
I'd like to build a replica of my 1952 Chevy Styleline Deluxe. However one site I found the guy passed away and the other guy that took over is out of stock. Any idea where I can get the 51 chevy sedan with grille and bumpers for a 52 to use with the AMT HT kit? Great video. Long time model car builder just getting into the world of resin bodies (I hope!)
I recently bought a resin body from J. Flintstone, ive never painted a resin body, should i treat it like a styrene body and wash, sand, primer, sand and paint? Or is there another way to do a resin body? Thanx!!
Soak in Bleche white for 24 hours to remove mold release . Scrub down with Original Dawn dish detergent or Comet with a toothbrush under warm running water . Prep as though it's a styrene body .
Hey Don great video, I could really use your help, I have a 1/25 scale 1959 Cadillac ambulance kit, but the body some how got crushed, do you know of anyone who can make a resin one, thanks for any help you might be.
Anyone involved in the "aftermarket" for model car parts needs to first realize this is a market that has a very low bar to entry, meaning it's very easy and cheap for anyone these days to produce and sell a product (this is actually also true for a lot of high tech companies these days, the automotive model car aftermarket is not unique in this case). In order to combat this problem, reputable firms have to figure out ways to make their products and their companies too unique and difficult to easily reproduce. Really good resin casted products are tuff to rip off, and so is really good customer service, but unfortunately just having a high quality product simply isn't enough either, the company has to have a strong market presence. Most aftermarket companies have really generic products and by definition that means they are a dime a dozen, but if you craft your business to have a clear, unique market presence with high quality products AND you are sufficiently capitalized you should do okay. Scale Motorsport has been in this market for 23 years now and we've seen and faced it all and one of the key market characteristics we picked up on in the early years was that many people (not all) who build American muscle and historic street cars are very, very frugal to put it politely, if they can save a dollar, even if it means buying crap, they will. And you know what, that's perfectly okay, because if you are running a reputable company with great products you don't want those type of customers anyway. So keep your nose to the grindstone, focus on what you love and do best, don't make customers you don't want or need, the focus of your business, focus on the needs of the customers that make your business great.
I should go up and see Ron about some models thinking bout getting back into the hobby, been friends with him for years and we've lived in same town since I was born gonna talk to him bout hopefully getting a 67-72 Chevy c40 c50 and c60 cab casted since from what I've found they are unobtanium
Great video Don. I myself make my own molds and castings for my dioramas. I would never use another guys castings as a plug for a mold. I have used some Chinese stuff and cleaned them up to be respectable. But nothing from any hard working resin guys. I make almost all of my own plugs (masters) it is a time consuming and tedious process. but well worth the satisfaction when you pull that first casting from the mold you made!
I agree the worker is worth his hire and this is stealing from hard working people....thanks I'll make sure I buy from the right people and call out these jerks out!
thanks for the post donn very informational and spot on right. I can't remember what issue of scale auto it was that had a article on the hoops a model car company has to jump thru just to manufacture a model car of a certain car. just because chrysler. doesn't manufacture oh say, plymouths, that doesn't give somebody the greenlight to copy that product. i'm not a lawyer but i'm sure one would agree with that statement.
Yeah makes you think how many other good resin makers are getting copped on , Looks like jimmy flintstone resin bodies does good work, I see his work on eBay & Here on RU-vid .
Don, I have used parts from all ex cept Fireball, and you are correct their products are great!!! I also buy a lot of stuff from Larry at Big Donkey and Jeff Watington all great stuff for sure!!!!
+Dirk's NUMA Files Depends on how you look at it . If you're guilty of the infraction , consider yourself scolded . If not , simply consider yourself informed ....This is an example of the Genghis Khan analogy that didn't quite sit right with you a year or so ago . Do right ? Nice guy syndrome ... Do wrong ? Not so nice guy shows up and chews somebody's ass . In this case ? The aforementioned individuals are way out of line . My channel , my platform , my opinion . Right is right , wrong is wrong , and the truth is the truth ... Until you have had your own work stolen , pirated , or worse yet , have individuals actively encouraging it , you won't have an idea how frustrating it can be .
I think I agree with you Dirk. I have never heard of any of these guys. I have got some of these from Jimmy Flintstone and they seem fine...great in fact. I guess I am a fool. Oh well.
Jimmy Flintstone is a legitimate manufacture of these. Anyone that is into resin bodies and conversions knows that, and knows most of the names he mentioned. He is referring to those that take something from Jimmy Flintstone, copy it, and then sell that copy and pass it off as a JF original, but they reap all the profits, and JF gets nothing.
+John Pitscheider Missing Link - Kevin Lutz Motor City Resin - Jeff Ballard Morgan Automotive Design - Kris Morgan RMR Resin - Ron Andrews Drag City Casting - Ed Fluck
If the so called knockoffs are not copying trade dress and they are not violating a copyright or patent (actually in this instance it would be a patent) then they are not violating the law. You could be sued for defamation by calling them thieves. Someone is not a thief for using the public domain. Patents are meant to expire for a reason. It's so that the people who are making the models you're defending can make the models in the first place, as they are likely using someone else's design that is in the public domain!! The fact is old car models have been copied the world over thousands of times and I seriously doubt that the patent office would even issue a patent. But they really need to consult with a patent attorney here. The people who make the model need to trademark their name and live off the quality, value, and reputation of their product and be competitive in that manner. Not by badmouthing imitators who are not breaking the law.
Thanks for the great video. I am not into cars, but armor, & aircraft, (ww2). Wondering if this bootlegging is going on with armor, & aircraft. Thanks again.
+Richard Tallent I am quite sure that it exists . Amongst my war mongering friends , ( I am joking , mind you ) , the amount of money that some put into one build is mind boggling ! The resin offerings for the military builds are second to none in quality from what I have observed first hand . Most have go to professional casters and will have nothing to do with second hand pieces that have been recast . Their work and it's end result are truly works of art ......
Well you right Sir.... but there is no way to prevent that.... its to easy to copy.... its wrong no question..... if you new to the hobby you might not even know who is the real designer / builder of that part you just bot. I´m a musician and people steal music without even have a bad conscience. Thats just how it goes.... but I hope you have a impact on some black sheeps
Love the butthurt reactions here. Fact is, not everyone can afford A+ quality aftermarket products, but they still want to build something. That's why there are so many Proxxon/Stanley clones. Also a fact is that copies of good products are not costing the original manufacturer money - at all. Why not? Because anyone who wants - and can afford - the quality and service of the original product will never buy a ripoff, while someone who can only afford a ripoff will (almost) never buy an expensive original part. They will also not really care about the reduced quality or extra work involved, they're just happy to get their hands on something they desire, for a price that won't bankrupt them. Support local shops instead of buying ebay/aliexpress/hobbyking? Sure, but not if the same part costs 12-15 times as much.That's just ridiculous. And yes, in the RC planes world that's very common.
Right On. Don. Pay the Great Craftsman. Its worth it. The Video game Era kids Can't do the Hard work to produce this Stuff they lack the know how and trial & error n keep trying till you Get it Right Tenacity which is why these Cost like $80
There will always be a market for knockoff parts. It's a free market. Do you buy Birdseye Frozen Corn or Stop & Shop Frozen Corn? To each his own. They're both corn.
+joseph migliore True on the corn analogy ... As for the free market , you steal a man's work and profit by it , you're a thief , plain and simple .....
