Scanline Filters on the LCD CRT Kit 

You are completely right. Those tools are the future, and they already are very impressive.

As chips inevitably get better and better, we are liable to keep seeing the retro gaming scene get better and better as well. FPGAs can do wondrous things!

That makes me sad...but there WAS a period of time that no one wanted these and there was no other choice but trash em :(

Thanks for watching! It's definitely not a perfect recreation, but it certainly is a fun little monitor!

Blurring the image blows your mind?

@@unitedfools3493 you certainly take "not getting it" to an Olympic sport level don't you.

@@unitedfools3493 not blurring the image, but recreating a CRT look. That's why most CRT filters are pretty bad. CRTs make pixel-art look amazing.

Smart guy! I have a couple of them too, just in case. I play my ps1 and ps2, sega on sony bravia crt and it's great...

That's 100% opinion-based and there's no wrong answer...but yeah, I'd still love to share my thoughts on that too!

@@RetroRGB Of course it's all subjective. But I own 10+ CRTs and I have a variety of CRTs ranging from 13 inches all the way up to 32 inches. I own VGA CRTs as well. This is really more of a curiosity topic.

If only panel drivers and digital video output standards that could do this were a thing... You'd still need to fake the CRT mask, scanline pattern (or maybe stick a CRT mask overlay on the panel itself) And in the case of an emulator on a computer, you'd additionally need to fake analog degradation, and come up with a complete display pipeline that also worked natively on a scanline by scanline basis at every stage, from the emulator to the operating system to the GPU to the monitor. And you'd also need a pretty decent scaler on the display driver circuit that lit all the pixels that belong in the same virtual scanline together in a CRT sweeping motion and interpolated the input accurately as it scales to fill the panel. It's technically possible to simulate a CRT scan entirely digitally on a modern LCD display, but it would require tons of custom display hardware and software and even a custom output format to do it _properly,_ and reach virtually nonexistent latency land like real analog hardware. The modern display pipeline is just designed around full frames the entire way through.

do you mean like the crt filters in reshade or to the whole screen like Shaderglass?

@@birdman4birdlegs I think? I'm not familiar with shaderglass and reshade.

reshade has really solid crt filters that you can put over games. Shaderglass puts a filter over your entire screen@@LightningWingProductions

That was the "CRT frame" actually. I think it's twice the thickness of the VESA version.

Totally different. All other scalers currently on the market just draw black lines, while this is mask emulation. GBS-C is still awesome though!

I think the "randomness" in the mask is likely caused by 1) the tube being larger than the viewable area. There is part of it that will be behind the front assembly of the CRT, and 2) the CRT (even a "flatscreen") being convex, so the mask is not as even as on an lcd.

The shorter response time doesn't belong less motion blur but yes the lower persistence time is to reduce motion blur while the faster response time is the lower fade.

Years. The issue is cost and the chip shortage.

Mike is currently in the very very early stages of one. As far as I understand, the problem with needing more powerful FPGAs is that the gap seems to be too big in terms of price, so it wouldn't be feasible to make one for consumer usage as of now or short-term.

I've done a side by side with a cheap samsung 1080p pc lcd screen against my 2 crts and a few of the included shaders in retroarch do a great job getting close. I don't have a pvm, but regular 20ish inch tvs from the late 90s, one is a sony trinitron but my panasonic is actually the better looking crt. I did tweak some shader values to get it a little closer to my crts, like the screen warp amount and bloom effects and colors overall. Probably the bigger improvememt you can do is use oled to get a better contrast ratio and black levels, as my cheapo lcd screen is a single zone backlit so it's rather washed out in darker scenes in comparison

That exactly what I use mine for...both a dedicated gaming display and a 2nd monitor for my PC that I use for watching videos and sometimes viewing the chat.

Good question, but its not that simple. In theory, that MIGHT work with TV and movies that were all formatted the same. Each analog video console outputted multiple, weird resolutions...so much like the CRT mask filters draw the lines across the exact pixels, you'd need an overlay for each resolution on each console, in each scaled mode. Also, you'd have to compensate for each display's overscan. So, I guess the answer is "probably...but no". Hope that makes sense!

Well, CRT's always perform better with black levels and some colors than LCD. You'd need Plasma or OLED to compete. I don't think it's that drastic of a difference in person, so I imagine my settings on the camera could have been better as well.

It works, but the RT5x sends the exact native resolution of this panel. So, both are good, lag-free experiences, but the 5x is a giant step up.

LOL, yeah, I think maybe the people who work on these things are already aware. I think the question you're missing is WHY we haven't imported them for use here.

@@RetroRGB I looked into getting one for myself, but the shipping was outrageous because they are so bulky and heavy. The minimum to buy was like 5,000 units. The all-around logistics and storage would be nightmarish.

I doubt oled will still be the dominant display in 10 years lol, oled is just lcd with better blacks and slightly better motion. Still have the issue of imperfect motion regardless of what you apply to it, unfortunately. I can see a true crt successor coming out, but it won’t be until the patent for lpds end.

@@MrNapkino "Slightly better motion" sounds a bit hyperbolic, though. TN/TFT are fast but even then OLED is several times faster in pixel transitions. But with TN/TFT you are still sacrificing on many other picture quality fronts, while OLED also performs great at many fronts, making it a pretty attractive for this sort of experimenting. I can't say I have ever paid much attention to the difference in motion performance, up until just recently, but using black frame insertion/backlight flicker on LCD can already improve motion performance quite a bit, and that applies to OLED as well. I have seen a CRT in real life just in the past 2 years with a more critical mind, and the motion performance is quite magical, but I dont think we are getting anything equally good or better until sample and hold is dead, and who knows if that's happening at all. OLED adopted sample and hold, so who's to say that something like micro LED wouldn't do the same. That's why I think some sort of high res OLED panel with high refresh rate would be quite useful for the purpose. Resolution for ultra accurate shadowmask filters built into it, and refresh rate so that the beam/dimming of older lines could be simulated to some degree, which could work as some sort of BFI as well. Even if it isn't exactly like real CRT TV, with the old tubes being guaranteed to die off, I'm confident that the retro scene will start experimenting with stuff like this, out of necessity and will to preserve the old feel of the tubes.

@@shotgunmasterQL yeah as someone who uses CRTs almost daily, modern displays are just so bad with motion in comparison that I honestly prefer a crt running composite than an lcd with hdmi lol. Motion is just way too important for the games I play to sacrifice it, and the lack of ANY audio/visual lag is just so good, and is also another thing you unfortunately can’t replicate with modern displays. Combine those two things together and it really improves the gameplay experience drastically.

Just find a CRT with S-Video or component video inputs. Consumer CRT's are awesome too!

The settings take about 5 min to figure out. Then you can save them as a profile. After that, "setting up" each console is like 5 clicks on a remote.

That's not quite true. And light guns will never work with flat panels.

@@RetroRGB Oh ok i was wrong so !

​@@RetroRGB So, I checked and my TV is a 100hz flat screen CRT, compatible with 100hz lightguns. So maybe the screen could have a frequence variation to get these guns working ?

It's worth trying. That's the cool thing about the RT5x: Try all settings until you find the best for your panel.

@@RetroRGB nah I get invalid format message. Oh well.

I believe that was my PVM-14M2U. I've since sold it. Awesome monitor though.

thanks for telling me :)@@RetroRGB

No, but it's far easier to manage, which is why many people prefer it.

You mean a 27". 4:3 OLED. :)

@@RetroRGB why yes please

What about making a doughnut that didn't make me fat? Both are impossible.

@@RetroRGB I see, scanlines can only do so much.

yeah =(

That for real got removed? Why?

Whoa, really? damn

No, but you can use a Sinden Light Gun on all LCD's.

No flat panel can

It's be more like $3000-$10,000. The only reason CRT's were so cheap over the years, is because they built massive factories to make them in bulk. Having to essentially hand-make each one would take a week or more for each one.

There is a Minnesota guy in the USA still making CRTs until he runs out materials. He said he'd consider making some for regular people but it's around 5 Grand.

@@jeremylatvala7590 link?

It removed my link. Just search for Dotronix CRT.

@@jeremylatvala7590 cool thanks

LOL, true, but show me a flat panel for under $1000 that doesn't :)

Yep, flat panels with a rolling flicker and better brightness compensation caused by the flicker plus the scanline filters are going to be needed to get more satisfactory CRT like results. But this is all already a good start!

Because to ramp up production on something like that would either mean you'd have to sell 100,000 units at $200...or they'd be $3500 each in low quantities. Good question though.

​@@RetroRGB is 100,000 units unrealistic (seriously)? I'd gladly pay, say, $500-$800 for a monitor with those specs ($3500 seems a bit steep though). And there are just so many exotic, non-standard monitors out there, like the square Eizo EV2730Q-BK and even the 20.1" LG 4:3 LCD Arcade Monitor (which is the closest match I've been able to find, but the response time is a too slow 6.5ms) at $269.

I honestly wouldn't have known any of this, if I wasn't involved in product manufacturing myself. The best example is flat-panel TV's. Remember when they were first released? The cheapest one was like $15,000. It was only when companies built billion dollar manufacturing facilities and starting selling them in extremely large quantities that they got affordable. We're lucky now that it's much cheaper to modify an existing design (and manufacturing), but my price guess is pretty accurate: That Eizo is $1500.

@@RetroRGB Just to be clear. I am not arguing against you. I simply dream of a specific kind of monitor and imagine there is actually quite a substantial market for it. Love your channel. Keep up your great work!

@@RetroRGB or just fix that LG Arcade Monitor (better response time + FreeSync) at the very least. : )

...and non-alcoholic beer still inherits all the downsides of not having alcohol, but I still love it when I'm the DD.

Sounds like you've never seen the ones the RT5x makes :)

So, I USED to agree with you, back when "scanlines" were just generated as horizontal lines. Those mostly just annoyed me. These are totally different though...and totally worth trying if you have an RT5x!