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Scene Analysis: Exposing a Heroic Coward 

Lore Reloaded
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Let's discuss when Kira goes after a man.. who wasn't guilty of what they wanted him to be..
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29 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 319   
@AkatsukiBoss13
@AkatsukiBoss13 4 года назад
Not only is Duet one of the best Trek episodes of all time, but it is the Gold Standard of Trek Bottle Episodes. And while there is a lot of great things about this episode, the acting, writing etc. it is that scene that cements the whole thing. And you know, it is fascinating looking back on the series how Kira grew as a character. I remember when Netflix first got DS9 and rewatching the series for the first time, and being struck by how angry and generally aggressive against Cardassians Kira originally was. It seemed weird given where she'd be at the end of the series. But then you get this episode, Second Skin, involvement with the Anti-military Faction, her complex relationship with Dukat, and of course Dukat's daughter and you see how Kira changed with regards to the Cardassians. And it all began with a man she was ready to kill on the spot.
@demarcusfaulkner7411
@demarcusfaulkner7411 4 года назад
Agreed
@adamlhayman
@adamlhayman 4 года назад
Nay, It is not one of the best Trek episodes, but more accurately, it is one of the best Television episodes. ;)
@Malo-os9kk
@Malo-os9kk 4 года назад
Its honestly one of the best scenes i have ever seen. It makes me cry every time i watch it. Its something about the guilt in his voice and his breakdown that is so impactfull
@SSingh-nr8qz
@SSingh-nr8qz 4 года назад
PREACH!
@BioGoji-zm5ph
@BioGoji-zm5ph 3 года назад
It is the best subversive remake of Conscience Of The King (TOS episode) ever seen in any Trek media, ever.
@weissschnee9117
@weissschnee9117 4 года назад
This is why we love Old Trek. This one episode has so many parallels with our past and present, it's genuinely saddening. "He's Black, that's reason enough" "He's Gay..." "He's White..." I wish I could look back on the darker episodes like this and say that we've evolved from this kind of thinking. That we're better, not able to make mistakes like this anymore.
@dragonsword7370
@dragonsword7370 4 года назад
If the story had ended differently, the Way we thought it was going to would have still made this a moving episode. The as it ends as it's actually written makes it such a tragedy that it helps make the audience feel in some small way the tragedy of the Bajoran Occupation. The violence was senseless and after finding out Maritza's heroic intentions, to see him be killed by a vengeance filled bajoran knifes this point home. One of the best episodes of trek and one I will always put forward in example.
@redpillfreedom6692
@redpillfreedom6692 2 года назад
Indeed it was good to point out that being a member of a formerly oppressed group doesn't make you virtuous or give justification for killing someone for simply being the same race as those who wronged you. Unfortunately, the pervasiveness of grievance politics in the current world makes a lot of people forget this. Funny enough, it's promoted primarily by self-loathing whites.
@philiphandforth4390
@philiphandforth4390 4 года назад
I came here for the lore analysis, but I love these scene breakdowns. I hope to see more of them in future, it makes for a nice bit of variety.
@jasonpye4649
@jasonpye4649 4 года назад
Yea its powerful. Good teaching moment. Another episode that I feel is powerful is far beyond the stars in season 6, I believe. I actually spoke to Avery Brooks about it twice at two different conventions years apart. I talked to him from a microphone out in the audience while he was on stage. I've done the same many times with other stars, but with him, that was one of my favorite episodes and DS9 my favorite series and I love the character, so it was pretty surreal talking to him.
@robertthompson2601
@robertthompson2601 4 года назад
When my all time favorite episodes and scenes in the entire star trek series and saga
@anthonyjordanmoviesandmore2470
@anthonyjordanmoviesandmore2470 4 года назад
This is easily my favorite episode in all of Star Trek I think your analysis was spot-on
@dylanlewis5113
@dylanlewis5113 4 года назад
It's episodes like this that make DS9 my favorite Trek.
@1984Phalanx
@1984Phalanx 4 года назад
I rewatched DS9 this year and I also found this moving.
@TheKyrix82
@TheKyrix82 4 года назад
I refer to him as "The man who saved the Alpha Quadrant". He's the one who opened Kira's eyes to the idea that Cardassians were people too, people who might be worth saving. Without that insight, she never would have aided Damar. Without her help, the Cardassian Resistance would have been crushed by the Dominion. Without the Cardassians...the Dominion War would have been so much worse.
@DrownedInExile
@DrownedInExile 3 года назад
Outstanding episode. I still get misty-eyed when Maritza breaks down. Damn space onion-cutting ninjas. The only part I didn't like was the ending. It seemed like such a cop-out.
@timothyhopewell6168
@timothyhopewell6168 4 года назад
It was a brilliant episode and a strong scene. I also believe the episodes dealing with Kira's adopted cadassian father, sorry can't remember his name, was wonderfully written especially his death episode
@Ashannon888
@Ashannon888 4 года назад
Tekeny Ghemor was his name
@timothyhopewell6168
@timothyhopewell6168 4 года назад
@@Ashannon888 thank you
@beyerdr
@beyerdr 4 года назад
Duet is one of the best episodes of DS9, Harris Yulin ( I had to look that up lol) Does a hands down amazing job in this role. He goes from vile evil man to an emotional breakdown at the truth of who he really is and what must be done to attone. And its legitimately powerful to watch. not only that but it does a great of job of giving you emotion about the Occupation, and sets up the Cardassians as a far more complicated antagonist. Ds9 is one of those shows that does a good job of holding up well even by todays standards.
@beyerdr
@beyerdr 4 года назад
@DEEPFOXJUDE yeah well if its one thing I've learned, its that star trek fans are the worst. For a franchise that encourages imagination and new ideas, many are very close minded to anything new. Im sure that observation is gonna earn me some hate but follow any forum any facebook page or RU-vid channel and the comments are full of that kind of stuff. I for one have found something to enjoy out of all the series that have come out. Not to say they don't have issues, but I get over them because A. Its fiction. And B. Theres still plenty good about them
@beyerdr
@beyerdr 4 года назад
@DEEPFOXJUDE and DS9 is great stat trek. It moves the universe forward in a way that hadn't been done before. People hated it because it wasn't TNG. The adventurery episodic type of show that fans were used to from TOS. DS9 had concrete arc to it that made you feel as though this is a universe that could happen.
@RealBadGaming52
@RealBadGaming52 4 года назад
THeres an Episode of Voyager that had the same premise, Nelix argue with an army Doctor who did evil science , it's a great episode too, it's in season 1
@DarthCacos
@DarthCacos 4 года назад
I like the vid. Thank you Lore. Keep going.
@hharvey3
@hharvey3 4 года назад
I would have to look at the judicial system of Cardassia, their system does not allow for innocent people, they are convicted prior to the trial and the trial is just a formality. So one brought up in that system would expect to be convicted just because they have been accused.
@Liopleurodon
@Liopleurodon 4 года назад
from a german perspective I can somewhat relate to this episode. While I agree, no one can be held responsible for what happened a generation or more before, Marritza was part of the system and so showed a perspewctive, that many people in WW2 where part of the system, even if they did not agree whith what happened and most just didn't care (or they suddenly started when the allied knocked on their door). So this episode shows again well both sides of the argument: yes he IS guilty, at least partial. But he regrets and at least now stands up for a change, even if he has to die, but also Kira realizes, that his death changes nothing, but his intention to change Cardassia may.
@seraphinaaizen6278
@seraphinaaizen6278 3 года назад
Odo really dropped the ball at the end there. An uncharacteristic mistake.
@demarcusfaulkner7411
@demarcusfaulkner7411 4 года назад
I think Kira and martisa were both examples of the old saying that power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Kira started off hating him on the belief that he was a powerful and evil cardassian who is responsible for the deaths of millions of bajorns. Because of that she was willing to kill him. Then she changed her mind once she seen his pain. I believe that once martisa was murdered she truly realize that hatred is wrong. That in war everyone is affected. There is good and evil people on both sides.
@jamoecw
@jamoecw 4 года назад
"meritza is cloaked in darkness representing deception." well there is the fact that he is a cardasian, and thus doesn't like the light to be as bright as the other races. the federation does accommodate even those that are prisoners. so thus while it could be artistically done in that way, or maybe the people making the show actually followed the lore of the show. well given how many lore issues they have you are probably right, it is an artistic direction.
@lemanruss1021
@lemanruss1021 4 года назад
I like these videos, verity is the spice of life my friend
@Jason-de9mq
@Jason-de9mq 4 года назад
He is ashamed because he didn't do anything. He wanted to but let's his fear stop him. Yes he was only 1 person but sometimes 1 person doing the right thing can start a chain reaction. If faced with this I honest do not know if I could do what he did not or if I would have let it happen as well. But like him if I did what he did I too would feel ashamed for not at least trying. Just remember everything that happens starts with 1 person. Either its a person who wants more control over other people or its 1 person trying to stop bad things from happening.
@KGabMI
@KGabMI 4 года назад
I think thats why he did it. He knows that one person could make a difference, probably in hindsight, and that if he stood up to the Butcher, even if he was killed for it, he might have prevented more atrocities. So now with his guilt he's going for the next best thing; by his death he forces Cardassia to face the Quadrant (since any trial would be all over both Bajor and the Federation, and by proxy the Klingons.. and you know the Romulans would know) with their acts. You can think of it this way: the Federation is against brutality and enslavement. The Klingons would see the subjugation and murder as dishonorable acts for not letting the Bajoran make a last stand. The Romulans would see it as a waste of a resource they acquired. By giving up his life, Maritza is being that one person to make a difference, by forcing the hand of his people, because he couldn't give his life to stand for what he felt was right. Worst of all? He ended up giving up his life... for nothing.
@wesleyrs83
@wesleyrs83 4 года назад
Is that the Judge from Ghostbusters II?
@nickmitsialis
@nickmitsialis 4 года назад
Yes; same actor.
@javanknox8360
@javanknox8360 4 года назад
This episode, along with "The Visitor", stands above so many others in ALL of Trek. Cardassians love to talk and they provide some of the best lines and conversations. Anyone who questions how good DS9 is really needs to take another look. Taking a look at the current political world, one has to ask...how has the US atoned for what we did to the Africans slaves and their descendants? Must we...or are we to be like the Cardassians Maritza feared would never be able to move forward and better.
@nickmitsialis
@nickmitsialis 4 года назад
But should the US 'atone' or should The Moorish slavers who captured them and the Portuguese traders who transported the seventy plus million Africans to the New World be 'on the hook'?
@javanknox8360
@javanknox8360 4 года назад
@@nickmitsialis Enough blame to go around but the sins of others doesn't wipe away what our ancestors did.
@nickmitsialis
@nickmitsialis 4 года назад
@@javanknox8360...hah! My ancestors came in 1948 but first they had a minor detour when they were ethnically cleansed from Smyrna in 1922. Yet, I, nor my current family don't hold a grudge because nobody in my family is planning on going back to live in Smyrna.
@alphaomega1089
@alphaomega1089 4 года назад
No one can tell you what to do after school. Your C grade was good enough.
@LoreReloaded
@LoreReloaded 4 года назад
Hell yea! Wait....
@ZontarDow
@ZontarDow 4 года назад
This episode brings up something far too few people remember about authoritarian states, their first victims are their own people
@BlueBoxRevan
@BlueBoxRevan 4 года назад
Topical
@capslock7833
@capslock7833 4 года назад
Cardassia did nothing wrong
@firestorm165
@firestorm165 4 года назад
I'm shooting a movie set entirely inside a mirror maze. Are you available?
@LoreReloaded
@LoreReloaded 4 года назад
Is it in Tennessee?
@firestorm165
@firestorm165 4 года назад
@@LoreReloaded Afraid not. Nevermind then, thanks anyway
@dalekbumps
@dalekbumps 4 года назад
What gets me most about this episode is that throughout the entire episode Kira only gets riled and emotive when she's talking about Cardiassians, the Occupation, Darheel's atrocities etc - in a lot of ways throughout this episode she personifies the hatred that many Bajorans feel for Cardassians , and yet the final scene shows her experiencing a completely different kind of pain and anger to anything we had seen her experience up until this point. The pivotal moment for Kira's character development isn't just that she learns that some Cardassians can be good and some Bajorans can be bad - she experiences true grief at the death of a Cardassian and that completely realigns her moral compass, basically ascending her from good-natured Bajoran terrorist to a true post-war leader.
@lawrence5584
@lawrence5584 4 года назад
You can really see it in her expression when she confronts the killer. There’s a little bit of shock in her when she says, “no it’s not”. Like it’s so new this notion that not all cardassians are evil.
@antonioscendrategattico2302
@antonioscendrategattico2302 4 года назад
In a sense this experience didn't just prove to her that some Cardassians could be good. It proved to her that some Cardassians could feel the same pain she did at the plight of Bajorans and were willing to even lay down their lives to do something to bring justice. Even when it might not actually achieve anything.
@Arkalius80
@Arkalius80 4 года назад
I kind of feel like you shouldn't have cut the audio of Kira's last line there. In response to "He's a Cardassian! That's reason enough!" was "No! It's not." I think that was a big sign of growth for her. Before her interactions with Maritsa, she probably would have agreed with that sentiment. She certainly would have while in the resistance. Maritsa helped her understand that Cardassians weren't merely hateful, murderous assholes by default. Some were, but some, probably most, were not.
@mihaicocis9513
@mihaicocis9513 4 года назад
He is the ultimate Cardasian patriot. Hoping his death will wash away the sins of his compatriots and allow them to evolve.
@sumanadasawijayapala5372
@sumanadasawijayapala5372 4 года назад
You nailed it. He said it himself, he did all this for Cardassia.
@xalahuj
@xalahuj 4 года назад
"Keep..."
@antonioscendrategattico2302
@antonioscendrategattico2302 4 года назад
If you think about it, it was a pretty powerful commentary on what patriotism should be: the desire to see your country the best it can be. Not the desire to have your country "win", or "beat" all the others. If your country is a country that would wantonly murder innocents for no reason other than it can and they're foreigners, it's NOT a good country, and a patriot would be the one that tries to make it better, by making it admit to its crimes, and work on not repeating them.
@NickdeVera
@NickdeVera 4 года назад
"You have no idea what it's like to be a coward" is such an amazing subtle backhanded compliment
@jasonpye4649
@jasonpye4649 4 года назад
Absolutely agree
@Sunseahl
@Sunseahl 4 года назад
Of all the episodes of Trek... this one hits me the hardest... The actor for Moritza did such a wonderful job that even with you staring and stopping to explain the scene.. It STILL brings me to tears. It's just that powerful on me.
@Im-the-greatest
@Im-the-greatest 4 года назад
I like the scene analyses
@BurgerLord99
@BurgerLord99 4 года назад
I like everything lore makes
@sid2112
@sid2112 4 года назад
@@BurgerLord99 I like beard.
@TheEDFLegacy
@TheEDFLegacy 4 года назад
I feel this breakdown is spot-on.
@TheKarotechia
@TheKarotechia 4 года назад
Cardassia chose not to atone for its crimes. Cardassia choose the self-serving path of Gul Dukat. As Garak said: "You know, some may say that we've gotten just what we deserved. After all, we're not entirely innocent, are we? And I'm not just speaking of the Bajoran occupation. No, our whole history is one of arrogant aggression. We've collaborated with the Dominion, betrayed the entire Alpha Quadrant... Oh, oh, no no, there's no doubt about it - we're guilty as charged."
@colonelquack
@colonelquack 4 года назад
Garak is bluntly honest - except when he's deceiving his ass off.
@philippschwarz4539
@philippschwarz4539 4 года назад
@@colonelquack He's a plain, simple tailor. He has no reason to lie.
@00Klingon
@00Klingon 4 года назад
@@colonelquack "My dear doctor, the stories are all true." ... "even the lies?" ... "especially the lies" ;)
@capslock7833
@capslock7833 4 года назад
Cardassia did nothing wrong
@goransekulic3671
@goransekulic3671 4 года назад
@@capslock7833 Gul Dukat...look, he did a lot of bad things, but if someone else was in charge, there'd be mountains of corpses, pyres even! He did what he could to minimize damage, too bad nobody understood that and went around emoting. Yes, I like Gul Dukat, sue me. :)
@mngentry
@mngentry 4 года назад
"He's a Cardassian! That's reason enough." "No....it's not." I'm honestly not a DS9 fan like most trekkies (at least not yet) But this episode is DAMN good. Worthy of Roddenberry.
@elijah_9392
@elijah_9392 2 года назад
Have you seen "In the Pale Moonlight"?
@roberthenryscott8176
@roberthenryscott8176 4 года назад
That scene where he broke down and cried, it moved me in such a way that I could feel his pain. That's brilliant acting on both characters. The Cardassians paid for their sins with their lives at the end of the Dominion War. I totally agree with your statement, "how can the Cardassians pay for their sins?" He was a hero.
@-Zakhiel-
@-Zakhiel- 4 года назад
The idea of retribution is always "tricky" to say the least. People on Cardassia where killed by millions at the end of the war, entire city wiped out. Most of those people where civilians. Maybe they had to go down this road to understand what it's like to be submited by an invasive "benevolent" species... But again, most of those people never went to war... Shouldn't Cardassia claim some kind of retribution for the innocents who died ? How is that fair ? If a group of people kill 10 children of an other group of people, should the second group kill 10 random children of the first one ? It's complicated. I don't know if there is even one good solution. Cardassia (in my eyes) was always a representation of old europeans colonialists and bajorans were maghrebians (oriental style, "prophets", very religious to the point they are a pain in the ass at school, a history of terrorism during the occupation...). In France, we are faced with those problems in our everyday life. And from one side to the other, it's always normal folks who suffer the most.
@nunya3163
@nunya3163 4 года назад
I find these break downs of the writing and acting to be as important to the lore, as anything else. The real Trek series all dealt with very deep and serious issues, in equally deep and thoughtful ways. They used solid scripts, and quality acting/directing to establish the story. Not lens flare and special effects.
@BlazingOwnager
@BlazingOwnager 4 года назад
I find them very interesting. It's a fresh angle you don't find elsewhere.
@davfree9732
@davfree9732 4 года назад
Check out Razor Fist's DS9 retrospective. He covers this episode where you discover it's based on another screenplay. But because it's based on a screenplay and well adapted, and produced, it brought the message of an old film into the then modern era that resonated as strongly now as then. When you compare STD and current Trek, you just don't see this level of production and commitment to a old concept that still holds it's value in allegorical story telling. Everything in STD is trying to be new and action driven. And the writers don't look back to bring old stories back to the audience. They only managed to quote Alice in Wonderland, without that quote meaning anything to the story. And the less said about how they handled the past character of Picard the better. It's probably better the writers don't adapt screenplays based on past works. They'd inject elements the work doesn't support and fill it with action and lens flare.
@BlazingOwnager
@BlazingOwnager 4 года назад
What's great about this moment/episode too is it's the minute that Kira comes to understand not all Cardassians are evil. She was very, very anti-Cardassian until this point. Later on she'd accept a Cardassian as a straight up father figure and back to the dissident movement. Why I love DS9 bottle episodes; they rarely stay in the bottle.
@williamsteveling8321
@williamsteveling8321 4 года назад
Her hate was of a particular kind - diffuse, unfocused, corrosive. Mostly it was pointed at the Cardassian government more than the Cardassian people, but it encompassed both. Sadly, her mourning one good person among them started her healing. This episode was troubling, but hopeful: Yes, hatred claimed another innocent, but in doing so it removed the hate from another. There's a lot of hope when an injustice can inspire the desire to do better So in a way, his sacrifice was NOT in vain.
@laughinggremlin6112
@laughinggremlin6112 4 года назад
I forgot how this scene made me cry. Especially since I bet I'd do the same thing as the clerk.
@sid2112
@sid2112 4 года назад
You don't know what you'll do until you're there, but being worried that you'll do the same shows that you understand the stakes. I think you'd make a good accounting of yourself.
@mrScififan2
@mrScififan2 4 года назад
Me too.😥
@BlazingOwnager
@BlazingOwnager 4 года назад
I'd probably have gotten killed not doing what I was supposed to. Not because I think I'm braver than anyone but I've always been stupid about prodding corruption and things that are wrong beyond what's good for me. Doesn't make me a hero and I suppose I could say I'd be too dumb to live. lol
@veggieowlgirl
@veggieowlgirl 4 года назад
Soldiers can come back from war and feel guilty for killing the enemy. The military has to train out the instinct to not kill another human being. So they suffer a moral injury. My neighbor doubted God would forgive him. I was lucky enough that I didn't have to kill anyone.
@sid2112
@sid2112 4 года назад
@@BlazingOwnager lol you're like me, a punk. We just can't help thumbing our nose at authority. Hehehe.
@ddogg14
@ddogg14 4 года назад
this episode gets me every time.
@sid2112
@sid2112 4 года назад
Really well acted. Amazing episode.
@sneakyking
@sneakyking 4 года назад
0 dislikes. No changelings detected
@sneakyking
@sneakyking 4 года назад
@Adan Druego ok... 4 now. Let's phase stun the whole thing! See what squirms.
@VERTHASAMVS
@VERTHASAMVS 4 года назад
5, False Martok approaches
@brokeneyes6615
@brokeneyes6615 4 года назад
Honestly that actor should’ve been a main, not a guest. Love every episode he’s in.
@dboymax1
@dboymax1 4 года назад
This episode is worth more than ST Picard and STD combined...
@montymont5943
@montymont5943 4 года назад
Dont apologize for "straying" away from ships and stuff, their isnt a lot to cover on that front that other's arent covering. Your analysis on scenes is great and much appreciated.
@seaconfused
@seaconfused 4 года назад
And this ladies and gentlemen was DS9. Episodes like this made DS9 the best ST of all! *Brilliant, insightful, uncomfortable, timeless!* Star Trek at it's best. TV at it's best.
@madrabbit9007
@madrabbit9007 4 года назад
A lot of people didn't like DS9 because they thought it broke with Gene's vision of a future where all problems can be solved without war. The problem is that's not reality and Trek was great at slapping people in the face with reality. You would never have gotten an episode like "Nor the Battle to the Brave" without war. These episodes were powerful and insightful to the human condition.
@Kaefer1973
@Kaefer1973 4 года назад
@@madrabbit9007 "people didn't like DS9 because they thought it broke with Gene's vision of a future where all problems can be solved without war" I was part of the second group, but not the first group. I loved DS9 even though I didn't really view it as part of actual Star Trek. I mean it was a deliberate subversion so of course in a way it's not a part of the real deal (that doesn't mean it's not as good or even better though). Of course I'd rather live in the Star Trek future than the DS9 future, but that's a different thing entirely.
@madrabbit9007
@madrabbit9007 4 года назад
Kaefer1973 part of the change was the influence of shows like Babylon 5 and the British show Blake 5 that had an over arcing story line. DS9 managed to work in classic Aesop’s fables in space stories while adopting the new story telling style. The problem with Discovery is the classic Aesop stories seem to have been abandoned.
@Kaefer1973
@Kaefer1973 4 года назад
@@madrabbit9007 To me the main problem swith Discovery seems to be the budget since producers seem to assume that if they can afford lots of splosions they don't need good writing.
@madrabbit9007
@madrabbit9007 4 года назад
Kaefer1973 the problem is more our expectations. Yes there are writing issues but we want Gene’s vision not some social justice warrior’s vision. I think Gene would be rolling over in his grave to see Diso Trek.
@oooChickenatorXooo
@oooChickenatorXooo 4 года назад
This was one of the best hours of Trek of all time and I still get choked up when I watch it. . They say you can judge the relative quality of a TV series by the strength of it's bottle episodes. If the bottle episodes are crap, the show is probably also crap. If the bottle episodes just give the writers time to explore some thing small in a detailed way, you might have a gem on your hands. .
@maxwilliams2493
@maxwilliams2493 4 года назад
This was always one of my favorites simply because this begins the bridge between cardassia and Bajor. Then some radical bajoran comes up behind him and ends it all. If he’d lived it could’ve been a quicker end to Bajoran-Cardassian hostilities
@sumanadasawijayapala5372
@sumanadasawijayapala5372 4 года назад
If he'd lived, he would've just gone home. The entire reason he impersonated Dar'heel was to go to trial and expose everything that took place. There was no trial, and so he wasn't able to expose anything. He could've talked about his experiences, but it's unlikely that Cardassian society would've listened to a filing clerk.
@LupeLokota
@LupeLokota 4 года назад
Duet is one of my favorite DS9 episodes, for many of the reasons you point out.
@The_Greedy_Orphan
@The_Greedy_Orphan 4 года назад
You don't know what you've missed till it's gone. Given the current era, I'm not sure we'll ever get another star trek episode with writing as good as this. Everything these days is just so two dimensional, there is no depth, only good or evil, and that those who stand on the sidelines or remain silent are equally guilty, must acknowledge their privelage and flagellate themselves to atone. If this show was written today, Michael Burman would've gladly put that man on trial and hail herself a hero for doing so.
@sid2112
@sid2112 4 года назад
Sadly, that's very true.
@firestorm165
@firestorm165 4 года назад
Accurate
@aelolul
@aelolul 4 года назад
Came here to say this.
@madrabbit9007
@madrabbit9007 4 года назад
This is a timeless episode and you are dead on. I would love to see this kind of Trek again but I fear the Golden Age of Trek and Star Wars has pass and been swallowed up by the woke who have to push their agendas and to hell with the rest of us.
@NineWorldsFromDrew
@NineWorldsFromDrew 4 года назад
The Greedy Orphan Nobody’s saying that “guilty” groups of people will achieve equality amongst everyone through “self-flagellation”. That idea infers blame. But blame is not the same as responsibility. And in today’s world, we’re actually moving away from equality, because whether that need for *responsibility* is pointed out to people, in ways that they find “palatable”, or not, people would rather shrink away from learning just what it is we have a responsibility towards. And what that responsibility is towards, is eliminating supremacist attitudes, which emanate from - but are not exclusive to - those “privileged” groups. That’s a responsibility we all have. No, I don’t think all white people are guilty for white supremacy. But white people still shouldn’t be comfortable with sitting on the sidelines, just because centuries of white supremacy have allowed them that comfort. No, I don’t think all straight people are homophobic. But I do think, the reason why some straight folks will end up saying something that falls anywhere between awkward, and being outright called out as homophobic or transphobic, is often because they haven’t even realised where decades of cis-het supremacist attitudes have put them, relative to their LGBT+ peers and neighbours. So putting oneself in Kira’s position, what would you ultimately resolve to understand, about the Cardassian occupation? That the blame lies with all Cardassians? Or that it lies with those who fronted the Cardassian agenda of expansionism, and supremacy? Just remember, there were Bajorans who willingly sided with that agenda, too.
@stevehagen9804
@stevehagen9804 4 года назад
This is a great scene, and a great breakdown. Side note, it does seem that every non-main character Kira connects with at all dies violently.
@starseed96
@starseed96 4 года назад
It's the Kira Kurse
@jasonpye4649
@jasonpye4649 4 года назад
Well, Vedek Boreil kind of met with a sticky end too.
@Kaefer1973
@Kaefer1973 4 года назад
Well, that one old guy only lost his home, house and hope.
@jasonpye4649
@jasonpye4649 4 года назад
@@Kaefer1973 which one old guy?
@Kaefer1973
@Kaefer1973 4 года назад
@@jasonpye4649 Mullibok from the Episode "Progress".
@nuck97
@nuck97 4 года назад
I do have one problem with the final scene. As the trio leaves Odo's office and starts walking down the promenade, they pass by Quark's bar when Mortiza is stabbed in the back by the Bajoran bigot. Isn't the infirmary directly across the promenade corridor from Quark's Bar?
@DAndyLord
@DAndyLord 4 года назад
Probably long dead, but there is a German boy, maybe 16 or 20, all he did was make sure the trains departed on time. He didn't kill anyone. But his work directly lead to the death of thousands. Had he not worked, someone else would've done the job. My heart hurts for the "bad" guys, Befehl ist Befehl, after all. How do you live with yourself knowing you participated, but also knowing there was nothing you could've done?
@therizinosaurus214
@therizinosaurus214 4 года назад
I love how he breaks down mid maniacal monolog. Also this is major character episode of Kira as she learns and grows that not Cardassian are evil.
@PitchToTheRhino1
@PitchToTheRhino1 4 года назад
Because he slowly realizes that he can't fool her..... or himself anymore.
@lyrebirb83
@lyrebirb83 4 года назад
On one hand Marittza wasn't a mass murderer who ran a space nazi death camp. On the other hand he's right. he was a coward who did nothing to help the bajorans, and nothing to oppose the cardassians. He was a file clerk at space auschwitz. He helped organize the organized murder of innocents. He was a space nazi ane never, until after the occupation ended did he make the crucial part of his attempt to harm cardassia. Was it enough? would a public trial and execution of a monster like Darheal be enough? Or should he have gone free as the episode claims? Was that Bajoran man who murdered Maritza correct? It's really hard to say, but I can say I know exactly who I'd be in that ending scene. Because I personally don't think it's ok they let him walk away. He was still a space nazi. He still assisted people in crucial ways in their genocide. He was a war criminal himself. Ultimately I don't think it matters if he was maritza or Darheal. File clerk or senior organizer. He was still a nazi, and he was still a participant in genocide. And that's enough. maybe not because he's cardassian. but because he was guilty anyway, despite what the show says.
@fngonzo
@fngonzo 4 года назад
So poignant given today's climate. IMO, episodes like this are why I loved DS9 and her characters. Kira's arc was especially interesting to me, how she went from hating Cardassians to helping fight for their freedom. I love how she grew as a character but never stopped fighting for what she thought was right, no mater the cost. Kira grew but remained true to herself.
@Anx34500
@Anx34500 4 года назад
This is great episode of deep space 9
@michaelrigoletti2410
@michaelrigoletti2410 4 года назад
Why is it that when Maritza gets stabbed, no one bothers to put up a call for a medical emergency that might have saved his life? It is understandable for dramatic effect in the plot, just seems strange that if someone is hurt almost any other time, they call Dr. Bashir right away, but here he is left to die in her arms on the promenade while questioning the stabber's motives.
@lordfaladar6261
@lordfaladar6261 4 года назад
Excellent episode. very much a Greek tragedy.
@r.km.4550
@r.km.4550 4 года назад
I am German and I feel still guilty for alle the horrors in 20th we did . So I can understand that feelings.
@jamoecw
@jamoecw 4 года назад
well as far as admitting the sins of your forefathers, that only needs to be done in so far as upholding the facts of history. the moment you focus on one set of facts over another you get the dismissal of some of those other facts and those that demand that others admit to things that are not true. if you believe the truth needs to be upheld, then all truth needs to be upheld. if you think that people need to be punished for crimes then truth is irrelevant, only guilt.
@Renegade2786
@Renegade2786 4 года назад
This man was appalled by the way his people was treating the Bajoran during the occupation, so he pretend to a Gul who was responsible of mass murder of Bajorans so that he can be punished for his people's sin. Sound like *white guilt* to me and I love how this episode explore that concept on how a group of people have committed a terrible crime against their oppressed but never exactly apology or even redeeming themselves for the crime has lead to some folks from the group exactly feeling guilty about his group's crime and he is willing to be a scapegoat for punishment to those his group have wronged.
@madrabbit9007
@madrabbit9007 4 года назад
I hadn't considered this aspect but you are dead on right. Some how I doubt there are a lot of Germans running around guilty about how grandpa was in the SS.
@Anderson-hi9qw
@Anderson-hi9qw 4 года назад
You should make watch partys
@markkeener6675
@markkeener6675 4 года назад
When the facade crumbles and he breaks down I get goose bumps every time
@chrischuba5037
@chrischuba5037 4 года назад
This was done. Another scene that I always remembered was when a Klingon General responded to a young officer who mocked him for giving an incoherent order brought on by his dementia as the entire bridge laughed at him. He turned to them and said, 'enjoy the fruit of your youth as much as you can, when you get old it turns extremely bitter'. His delivery and expression was perfect.
@Corbomite_Meatballs
@Corbomite_Meatballs 4 года назад
"Once More unto the Breach" - one of the best Klingon eps in all of Trek, IMO.
@bgphantom3
@bgphantom3 4 года назад
RIP Kor.
@oooChickenatorXooo
@oooChickenatorXooo 4 года назад
The Bajoran drunk/sociopath who stabs Marizza at the end says something which is an echo of something said by both Marizza and Kira in different contexts earlier in the episode. . Kira says, still holding on to anger and grief "Every Cardassian is guilty, as far as I'm concerned they all deserve to be punished." and later Dax points out to her that on some level she needs the prisoner to be Darheel, she needs him to be guilty because what she wants is vengeance. A sentiment Marizza also accuses her of while he's still in his Darheel guise. . Later, Marizza says "We all have to be punished!" in something akin to survivor's guilt, PTSD, and suicidal ideation. . He wants to die because did not stop the atrocities and is now wracked with guilt, but filtered through the lens of that genetic-level nationalism that all Cardassians seem to have, he thinks he is doing it because Cardassia can only survive if it atones, and he wants to sacrifice himself for the fatherland, not to save it, but to save its _soul._ . Garak was always a patriot too. He wanted to go home, but he was an exile and had to deal with that as best he could. . A great character study on Cardassians in general, but a great story arc for Kira. She goes into it believing all Cardassians are evil, and comes out of it realizing it's a bit more complicated than that. Some of the Bad Guys were not guilty, they were just part of a system that would have steamrollered over them had they tried to fix it. . She starts by saying "All Cardassians are guilty" out of pain anger and grief, but when she hears a suicidal man tortured by his memories say "All Cardassians are guilty", Dax's words suddenly come into sharp focus for her. .
@Pandaemoni
@Pandaemoni 4 года назад
My thoughts are: Sickbay can't heal a single knife wound? They've brought people back from worse.
@blackops555
@blackops555 4 года назад
Probably hit an artery which would have made him bleed out in seconds flat. I dunno, had to reason it out somehow.
@Pandaemoni
@Pandaemoni 4 года назад
@@blackops555 Jean Luc Picard was stabbed through the heart, decades before, the blade passing through his back and out the front of his chest. And they saved him.
@Ashannon888
@Ashannon888 4 года назад
@@Pandaemoni The episode indicates that Maritsa is already dying from that disease. Plus all the surgery and stress he's been under, the knife would was just too much for him to handle.
@Pandaemoni
@Pandaemoni 4 года назад
@@Ashannon888 He wasn't in noticeable distress before being stabbed, so he wasn't at death's door. He expected to live long enough for a trial and execution, and they take time. Plus, they didn't even try. No time to tap the comm badge and declare a medical emergency because....well, the episode was ending.
@AlyssMa7rin
@AlyssMa7rin 4 года назад
@@Pandaemoni Think of Kallah Nora like being treated with Chemo. It's a neuro-degenerative and respiratiory illness. Nervous system and Respiratory involvement makes it incredibly difficult to heal, as he would have trouble oxygenating his blood, which means going into shock from a severe stab wound (That was a knife designed to cause as much damage as possible) could be fatal, even after medical treatment. Plus, Star Trek in general is infamous for using medicine as a plot device in one episode, and ignoring it in the next (Or even the same) episode.
@salsanchez4177
@salsanchez4177 4 года назад
my thought on that last scene??? CALL THE DOCTOR!!!!! but nooo.........just don't give it another thought.
@motomuto3313
@motomuto3313 4 года назад
As long as 1 person still holds hatred for another group of people for an event that happened long ago, there will be no peace. This is true in art as well as real life. When 1 person tells 10 other people about how a group or race of people are evil, each person of those 10 people will tell 10 more. This will never stop. I know how it works first hand. I told 10 people about how a store made fun of my friend, and that they were in the wrong. 1 year later that store closed due to rapidly declining sales. That store is now an empty lot
@brianellinger6622
@brianellinger6622 4 года назад
I believe that would have been inappropriate Mother. . In public and all..... . Shouting a shofar on a Mountaintop with my son and mother. ... .... being the cherry on top
@WisdomoftheSphynx
@WisdomoftheSphynx 4 года назад
One of my favorite episodes.
@dhunter1133
@dhunter1133 2 года назад
I don't know if this is apocryphal, but I've heard it said that Harris Yulin lost close family in the Holocaust (Yulin himself was born in 1937 in Los Angeles). If nothing else, being Jewish certainly gave him an unusual perspective for this role.
@SwankyKitteh82
@SwankyKitteh82 4 года назад
Why are you apologizing? These themes are fine. Sure, they may not be "hard lore" related, but it's still Trek.
@yankeepapa304
@yankeepapa304 2 года назад
Deep Space 9 had more character development than the rest of the franchise put together. From an "avenging angel" who sees so much as only black or white... she discovers the humanity in others... which importantly...helps her reconnect with her own humanity. The noble (if misguided) effort of the Cardassian file clerk...and his senseless death were a wake-up-call to her. (They filed the serial number off "The Man In The Glass Booth" and did a splendid job...) . All through the series... The dissident Cardassian who is made to believe that Kira is his daughter... Zial... a half Bjoran-half Cardassian... When Zial is killed Kira does what Zial would have wanted...telling Garek that Zial loved him. While she grieves for Zial...she is feeling some of Garkek's pain... While Garek "on her side", the thought of feeling his pain was beyond the pale...until this moment. She hears Garek (who obviously loved Zial) say that (understanding his own faults) he did not understand why she did. Hardly the statement of an "arrogant Cardassian..." . Damar...who killed Zial... changes almost as much as Kira (not only amazing plot lines...but requiring excellent actors...) When she arrives to aid his resistance movement, she is doing so for professional reasons... But his increasingly sincere respect for her...followed by his killing his Cardassian friend to save her and Garek... along with a pang re hearing of Damar's family being killed... makes believable when she is laughing with him re his "fortress hideaway in the mountains..." . The senseless killing of Garek's housekeeper affects Kira not just because she had come to like the Cardassian woman...but because...to some extent she (again) senses his pain. Near the end, where they are all laughing hysterically because they can't get past a single door to launch their "heroic sucidal attack" is another "shared moment..." And when asked about Damar...she states that he is dead...with just a slight touch of regret for a Cardassian who (largely) redeemed himself in her eyes. Yankee Papa
@tonebonebgky2
@tonebonebgky2 4 года назад
I fell this from the first time I be watched the episode over 20 years ago, I think this episode was a catalyst not only for major Kira but also for deep space nine as a series, you see up to this point in time deep space nine hadn't been a strong show yet but it was this episode in one or two other strong ones like it that was to show The foreshadowing of the great deep space nine and all it would become. Major Kira grew a lot as a character on this episode as well so because she went from a terrorists hoping and almost wishing that all Cardassians would die essentially, by the end of this episode she realized that she had been wrong all along there were still some good Cardassians left in the universe. What strikes me is that this is kind of the way that both political parties see each other just totally opposite though, as the evil gul dar'hel And both believe that they have to be punished no matter what, could it be in this hyper political world in which we live in there's a little bit of Maritza In both parties? Until we learn that we will continue to fight each other and hate but as Kira so aptly pointed out And I think at that point she was even surprised to hear herself say it no even being a Cardassian isn't reason enough to hate, because in the end there is no reason to hate.
@MrThomasCWest
@MrThomasCWest 4 года назад
Here we have a man ready to pay, with his life's blood, for the sins Cardassia committed against Bajor and the Bajorian people, only to be killed for no other reason than being Cardassian instead of facing trial and execution for appearing to be The Butcher Of Gallitep. This episode also foreshadowed event we later see in the series, from seasons 4, 6, and 7. For no other reason than the possibility of Changelings infiltrating the Civilian Government of the Cardassian Empire, the Klingon Empire ravaged the Cardassian Empire, bringing Cardassia to one of its weakest points, sort of a way of paying for past atrocities in that regard. Then, we have the Dominion start to micromanage Cardassia after the Federation/Klingon Alliance retook DS9/Terok Nor by installing Damar as the leader of Cardassia. If you pay attention to Damar after Favor The Bold and into the beginning of the second half of season 7 you can see exactly how much control he really has over his people. Just like the way Cardassia ruled Bajor during the Occupation. This leads Damar to defect, along with a sizable chunk of the Cardassian military. In a later episode, we learn that the Dominion has been executing families of the defected officers and soldiers. When Damar questions those actions, Kira responds with something along the lines of [paraphrasing], "Yes, Damar, who would willingly kill the innocents?" At first Kira regrets what she said until Garak told her Damar needed to hear that. At the end, the Founder orders the complete extermination of the Cardassian race after the Cardassians side with the Alliance at the Battle Of Cardassia. A task we hear mentioned in Duet by Marritza (while pretending to be Gul Darhe'el) and later by Gul Dukat in the episode Waltz as something that should have been done to the Bajorians. Duet really set the foreshadowing tone for the price Cardassia was to pay for its sins.
@jasonlane1528
@jasonlane1528 4 года назад
Amazing episode. His breakdown at the end is comparable to G'Kar's speech about freedom on Babylon 5 when his race was conquered by the Centari. Impeccable acting in an episode that doesn't get talked about enough.
@shdwdrmr-dq3lo
@shdwdrmr-dq3lo 4 года назад
Great breakdown, keep up the good work!
@dennismason3740
@dennismason3740 4 года назад
Who plays the Cardassian? Ted Sorel? Will somebody please credit the genius behind the makeup? This is bullshit.
@wackyvorlon
@wackyvorlon 4 года назад
Wanted to say that I absolutely love your scene analysis videos. I very much look forward to seeing more!
@williamsquires3070
@williamsquires3070 4 года назад
I think this episode drives home the point that bigotry is bad. Just because someone is Cardassian, doesn’t mean he or she is evil. Likewise, just because someone has dark skin doesn’t mean they’re a gangster or someone with a turban or hajib is a terrorist. Most people are not so two dimensional as that; it’s just an ill-advised generalization. Besides, if your ethnic/religious group had been treated like slaves, like dirt, for centuries, wouldn’t you be angry, too? In the end, no one really benefits from racism or sexism, whether individual or institutional. This is why all lives matter (until they turn to evil, anyway.) Remember, we’re ALL different; even identical twins are not identical in their life experiences.
@twinmoon21
@twinmoon21 4 года назад
I wonder if Cardassia would ever officially acknowledge and apologize for the brutality of the occupation and pay Bajor some form of reparations.
@drewf41
@drewf41 4 года назад
Please don't apologize for your art. I very much enjoy your work, and has opened new avenues of thinking for a franchise I've enjoyed and rewatched since I was 6.
@alexanderzippel8809
@alexanderzippel8809 Год назад
I love how this episode is also showing the aftermath of WW2 on Germany. They were seen all as monsters cause of the Holocaust. But only a „few“ (not the general population) actually committed the crimes. The population was either blinded by patriotism or to afraid to speak up. Its not the burden of germans, back than or today to atone for their sins. It’s their duty to always remember them and prevent a repeat of history. No one is guilty because of the actions of their forefathers. Only if one tries to forget what has happened, he is guilty, but even then only of letting history repeat itself
@SSingh-nr8qz
@SSingh-nr8qz 4 года назад
Question: why couldn't he survive the stab wound? I mean we have advanced medical tech and transporter tech as well. Bashir is a genetic freak of science FFS!
@mutanix
@mutanix 4 года назад
One of the greatest episodes of Trek IMO. This is the one I show to people that think Trek is just sci-fi fluff. This is also the episode that let me know that DS9 was not going to be like TNG. It was a powerful episode when it aired but these days it really resonates. I can't watch it without tearing up.
@Ohne_Silikone
@Ohne_Silikone 3 года назад
Due to some traumatic events I endured as a kid later on in life I had nightmares in which I was placed in his situation, in equally horrendous circumstances to act out the guilt ridden powerless experience the trauma represented to me. Poor poor man. It also kind of reminds me of the end of Schindler’s List. Survival is a two edged sword as it might ultimately break you to an extent beyond what death ever could accomplish.
@sebastianfaber3754
@sebastianfaber3754 4 года назад
It might be because I'm german, bit this is my second favourite DS9 episode.
@Thrakus
@Thrakus 4 года назад
Do you guys find Star Trek is bad at setting plot points around how things work so they can not be miss used? Like old Star Trek they have a drug that lets them fix the ship in 1 hour vs month , They have endless time travel with no cost to using it. STV they find away to use wrap 10 but show why it can not work only to show how it can with a drug,
@kenwshmt
@kenwshmt 4 года назад
In the pale moon light, only a paper moon, and duet are what i think of ds9. B5 was on at the time, and ds9 had treated us to 'move along home'.. this one convinced me to watch it regularly. shindlers list had just came out in 93. he just wanted to be a good loyal nazi, he didnt want to kill everyone.
@critter30002001
@critter30002001 4 года назад
Very good breakdown. It was a very important scene in the series, including the end part.
@goransekulic3671
@goransekulic3671 4 года назад
One of the best episodes I've seen. Hell, it goes beyond that, it's so....powerful!
@twinmoon21
@twinmoon21 4 года назад
I don't watch many episodes from season 1 but I will rewatch this today.
@JonBerry555
@JonBerry555 4 года назад
I've actually come to enjoy these scene analysis videos more than your lore videos, I look forward to them way more. It might just be because it is a fresh way to look at Star Trek or its because they stand out in the sea that is lore videos on RU-vid (for any franchise).
@judewestburner
@judewestburner 4 года назад
Series one of DS9 wasnt that great, then you get this episode which is staggeringly profound and amazing. I watch this ep a lot
@UncleMikeDrop
@UncleMikeDrop 4 года назад
This is the problem with collective blame and collective guilt. It's a rarely productive and more often than not, harmful. No living person has an ancestry free of guilt. There comes a time when we just need to live in the present and move forward into the future. The alternative far too often becomes everyone pointing the finger at everyone else and vice versa.
@thewewguy8t88
@thewewguy8t88 2 года назад
Honestly I feel like had the domion war ended the way it did and mitriza was still alive in the mental state he was in I can't help but feel like he would have been happy at what happened to cardsaia.
@dswynne
@dswynne 3 года назад
Unfortunately, these sorts of things can complicate matters, when former enemies must become friends by necessity, in order to keep the peace, even as the "victim" of the former enemy still presses for justice.
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