Scene Analysis: Khan's surprise attack and Devestation 

It is also I think because the guy that was at the equivalent of Spocks station is conferring with Khan when the Enterprise locks on to them. Now why he didn't notice when he got back to the station is probably what you were saying. He wasn't there when the initial alert popped up on his screen or whatever and then didn't see it when he sat back down. edit: Now I must know what the reaction girl is reacting to.

@@Mauadib Yeah... I'd like to know what she's reacting to as well. I wish I had her energy! Love your username!

Maybe they have had phasers locked on for that entire time, Sulu is just confirming they are locked on.

Actually there is a plausible explanation it’s established in Star Trek the next generation as well as a couple episodes of deep space nine that if you use automatic computer target lock the sensors will detect it which is why Spock was able to detect the weapons lock however if you aim and target weapons manually it will not show up in a sensor scan.

@@jacenskylo this kind of reflects reality. when locking on with a weapons system there is a concentrated radar beam that is used to detect details in movement in order to ensure a good hit by the weapon system. if instead you just line up the shot with what you know from passive systems it is not nearly as accurate, or responsive but you don't use that beam. so in real life the beam when on a target is called a lock, and it is detectable by the one which it is locked onto, use the weapon without a lock and the enemy doesn't get a heads up, but you may miss.

Star Trek II The Wrath Of Khan Was Released Back In 1982 When I Was 20 Years Old, And Not Back In The Late 1970's Sidney Fein . . . . .That Critical Error Would Cost You Alot In Any Star Trek Game . . . . . Ouch . . . . .lol . . .

@@jamesevans3492 it extended into the early 80s. Big hair and the neon look didn't really come into play until around 83-84. But come on, you were 20! Lucky bastard. Hehehe

@@sid2112 I Was Able To See Every Star Trek Movie When They First Came Out Back Then Being Between 4th Or 5th To 9th Person In Line At The Theatres In San Francisco California With My Older Brother Who Also Loved Star Trek . We Would Camp Out And Wait Overnight In Line By The Theatre Which Was To Premiere The Star Trek Movie The Next Day, And With Other Die Hard Star Trek Fans And Have Overnight Fun While Freezing Our Butts Off Playing Star Trek Trivia Games And Just Conversing Everything Star Trek Which Was Way Cool Back Then . . :-) That Was Way Cool And Plain Fun . . ;-)

@@jamesevans3492 I grew up in the 80's. There's a BIG difference between 1980-84 and 1985-89. Sidney Fein is correct in that the early '80s was an extension of the late 70's, right up until about the time Miami Vice and poofy hair bands and some such came onto the scene.

I paused and magnified my screen so I can get an accurate censor reading on the two redheads.

I bought it on vinyl at a grocery store when I was 11 years old. I went nuts and begged my mom to buy it. I listened to it till I wore it out. It was my favorite movie at the time even more than Star Wars. I loved James Hornets music in. Still have some in my iTunes

Same director for both movies.

That’s the point of the walking

It's stated clearly later in the movie: "He (Khan)''s intelligent, but not experienced." Also, in the novelization, which you can take or leave, it's stated that Khan was familiar with the pre-refit Enterprise, which had a different console layout. Since almost all Fleet ships use the same consoles, it makes sense that he wouldn't know where the override was

I think this is exactly what the writers meant to be Khans downfall. He could have studied modern science and technology for a few months or even years but he was to confident with himself and obsessed with Kirk to take that time.

... Not to mention, genetic enhancements and technical prowess, are two completely different things. The Enterprise command crew, had many years of training, Admiral Kirk, was just being foolhardy and stupid. Even in the most basic situations, based on Age old naval military tactics (of which starfleet is based on), every ship on approach is considered a Threat by "friend or Foe" tactical analysis, until communications have been established, and threat postures have been assessed. Khan, played his role as a cloaked mugger, quite well. Up until, his ego got in the way. That's when things went downhill for him.

I’m glad I can get more from the movies from my education than you ... sounds like it’s not the channel for you

These things were on screen ? And I never said he wasn’t walking towards him and I guess you don’t see how old videos are

I think that when Saavik says "Energize defense fields", it means that they're activating what is referred to in TNG as the structural integrity field, which prevents half the ship from depressurising

That's my major beef with Starfleet...they have multiple torpedo launchers and hundreds of torpedoes, but only send 2-3 at the opponent! And then after one or two hit, they stop firing them, like someone called a cease fire!

Because I believe his nephew was already gone at that point, but was hoping for a miracle as he knew Bones was likely on the bridge as well, still.

Inde tiger yeah. Thanks for correcting me. I thought it was funny to make an error myself while correcting somebody else’s title.

Not arguing.. However Blade Runner, Alien and Aliens are worthy mentions. Im not sure if The Thing would be considered SciFy however, every single film I mentioned are absolutely fantastic in there respective ways. Excellent question though Sir 😉

@@Karmakatt6 Oh don't get me wrong, I do love Aliens and Blade Runner as well as the OG Alien I do greatly respect for what they have done. But I think that WoK is just a SciFi that is just, mmm, perfect. Though I would consider The Thing to be SciFi, as well as another great movie imo.

By SciFi movie i think you mean something in space, so no Terminator. The 360 minute version of Dune is pretty awesome in my taste. But Star Trek 2 is pretty much a legend in Sci-Fi, it really dosnt need to compete with anything. Like comparing Mohamed Ali with Mike Tyson. This are legends and even if someone better comes along they will stay on there legendary status

That's been retconned in beta canon, and I think in the novelization of the movie - anything from Chekov actually being on Enterprise but on the lower decks, to him reading about Khan in an AAR, etc.

There is a strip of louvres at the centre point, perhaps to suggest a pass through?

Is that who that is? She's just adorable. She tickles my paternal instincts.

@@sid2112 She's a anime reviewer of sorts. Type the name in YT.

Yes but the real question....what setting was her Lovesense Lush toy?

Enhanced genetics...in the original series he read and memorized the entire starfleet database in a few short hours....prob did the same thing after seizing the Reliant

It might be Sulu's experience allows him to manually lock phasers through his own skill rather than use detectable targeting systems.

@@thanqualthehighseer He also didn't exactly score a clean hit with the first salvo, so I'd agree it was more of a manual phaser lock than a computer-assisted one.

I also have a feeling that Khan is talking to Joaquim, probably the person who should be at his console and seeing if the Enterprise was locking phasers., as Spock was sat at his when he detected Reliants shields going up and the following phaser lock.

Well, they are indeed inexperiecend when it comes to Ship to Ship combat. Khan was a brilliant strategist when it comes to combat on planets, but he and his people hadn't any idea how Space Battles work. They know only 2 Dimensional Tactics but a Spaceship can also attack from under your own Ship. Also he had no Idea how to run a Spaceship, while Kirk and his crew where trained in this and had years of expirience in it.

@@thanqualthehighseer Good observation.

doesn't he even quote Ahab at the end when he arms the Genesis Device?

CanadianFabe Yeah, and we even see the book on his shelf in the Botany Bay. Clearly he must’ve read it many times over during his exile.

say what you want. Kahn brought it on himself.

@@dying101666 So did Ahab

@@AndDiracisHisProphet true. this movie is the reason Moby Dick is on my list of books to read.

I would respectfully agree and disagree. Keeping in mind James Horner is in my "Three J's List" (John Williams, James Horner, Jerry Goldsmith). Overall, I agree this is the best application of scoring with the leitmotifs you cite. Yes, my favorite track is also Battle of the Mutara Nebula. Mr. Horner is quoted as saying that the musical cues have to be within a 10th of a second from the visuals to be effective. Somehow, movie after movie, he did that. As for musicality and historical endurance, however, I would cite Maestro Goldsmith's TMP score. "The Enterprise" is, overall, one of the best orchestral pieces in cinematic history. "Leaving Drydock"... I mean I've really not heard any thing that says, "Let Go!" like it. Plus, having the main theme being used for what is arguably the best Star Trek TV series' main theme... well, that's got to count for something :-) Further on, his pastoral theme for "First Contact" is something that's still performed in Star Trek concerts - along with the aforementioned TMP Main Theme and Battle of the Mutara Nebula.

@@GinkoYoki234, I agree that many parts of Jerry Goldsmith's score for Star Trek: The Motion Picture are iconic. The main theme for the Enterprise and leaving spacdock are eternal. The Klingon theme is unforgettable. I was talking about James Horner's score being more integral to the movie. As with Basil Poledouris' score for Conan the Barbarian, it's unthinkable to separate the music from the movie.

Go watch "Battle Beyond the Stars". Horner scored that, and it's essentially a rough draft for Wrath of Khan.

That good.. or bad?

It's good. Very good.

You got fooled? That's ok it happens to the worst of us....

@@LoreReloaded It's shit because you're schooling didn't actually teach anything...

@LoreReloaded I watched to the end didn't I?

They grossly underestimated just how powerful Kirk's current Enterprise here was. An if Enterprise had been a little more powerful or had happened to aim in all the right spots what firepower they still had at this point woulda probably been able to near DESTROY Reliant. Or so it'd seem after Kirk's counter ambush here

Khan had plenty of time to study the technological advancements from the last time he saw Kirk, but didn't

Enterprise would have locked on while being hit. But it would have been dismissed as fairly harmless after gutting her.

Spock was watching his sensor board when the Reliant locked phasers on the Enterprise. Joachim (Khan's number 2) wasn't watching his sensor board when the Enterprise locked phasers on the Reliant.

@@ZoeMalDoran yeah IIRC Joachim was the person talking with Khan when Enterprise locked on phasers meaning he wasn't even on his post. He probably got back to his post just in time to notice the target lock when the shields lowered by themselves (from his point of view) and refused to go back up. That's in fact a major difference between Khan and Kirk and by extension their crews, Khan is arguably more intelligent then Kirk but inexperienced and highly arrogant, while Kirk is a veteran captain with years of experience (probably including being an ensign during the klingon war of the 2250s), so he knows how to exploit Khan's weak points mainly his inexperience and ego. You'll notice that in all their interactions Kirk is playing to Khan's ego, in this scene and infamous "KHAAAAAAAAAAANNNN!" scene later pretending to be more hurt and beaten then he actually is and later openly insulting Khan to make him follow the Enterprise into an obvious trap.

The scene gives the vibe of barbarians who have taken scalps.

Nope, that's definitely not a belt buckle taken from a USS Reliant officer. Khan had the necklace under his protective gear when he was on Ceti Alpha V - before he got anywhere near USS Reliant or any current Starfleet uniforms (other than the environment suits worn by Cmdr Chekov and Cpt Tyrell). It is first seen when Khan removes part of the protective gear when he is about to put the Ceti Eels into Tyrell and Chekov's suit helmets. It is most likely a memento of Lt Marla McGivers, Khan's wife and an ex member of the crew of USS Enterprise.

@@davebignell773 Except that when Khan was marooned on Ceti Alpha V, the uniforms Starfleet had did not have those as part of the ensemble. Remember the Starfleet Delta on the TOS uniforms was sewn into the fabric, and not metallic. Nor did they have the circular border around them.

I remember there was a Comic story of Khan's exile on Ceti Alpha 5. Towards the end, Khan was able to carve a Starfleet Delta from the hull of the Botany Bay to remind him of his revenge.

@@Sasuke81a That would make sense. And thinking about it a bit more the centre of the insignia would be a different symbol depending on the role of the officer in question - in the case of McGivers her insignia was not the star worn by Kirk, it was the spiral design as worn by Engineering personnel (slightly strange as I would have expected the globe of the Science officers).

One of my fave movie moments of all time.

well i bet as the producers knew the old saying wether it involves mothey or not they knew how it went. Expect the unexpected ;D and they knew it qutie brilliantly between Kirk and Khan in both ship scenes on Enterprise and Reliant

I thought that was her.

Agreed

Feel like he should've credited her though.

I second this conclusion. They thought the Enterprise was toast, and for the most part, they were right. If Kirk didn't use the prefix code the Enterprise could've locked on all day but it wouldn't do much.

My personal view: Normal phaser lock is made with an active targeting system. Active sensors like a sonar ping can be detected. But at this range, an expert like Sulu, knowing how important it was to take Reliant by surprise, locked his firing solution with PASSIVE sensors (Including the Mark I Eyeball. Had someone less experienced than Sulu been manning phasers, the shot might have gone wide.

@@marcharkness6101 I would agree but I can't recall there ever being passive targeting on starships. I believe there have been references to 'manual targeting' in TNG. I mean you get close enough you can't miss. Also explains why the damage to Reliant wasn't aimed at critical systems. It seemed more akin to a good old fashioned broadside.

(German dub i first saw it in omits the mention of Klingon. thought i was going insane)

Revenge is a dish best served cold, is actually a Sicilian Mafia phrase.

ya he just took those steps off screen.

The cut was to quick for it to occur... Unless they speed walk like a sports mom on their way to a softball game

@@LoreReloaded A tense situation tends to send a lil extra adrenaline.

Mr. Saavik, you go right on quoting regulations!

Also when Spock said, "Their coil emissions are normal." THAT would have signaled a major red flag.

@@MatthewNash That was always a little odd to me. We've got a ship full of seasoned veterans in an unusual situation, the rookie pipes up -- great look from Leonard Nimoy at 1:58, about as close to annoyed as Spock could be -- and as it turns out, the captain of the ship would have been wise to have listened to her quoting regulations (...and nowhere in the five year mission did they ever run into a similar situation, I guess?). Spock reminds her that the Admiral knows the regulations, and then the Admiral carries on. Boom. "It's just a show; I should really just relax." Kirk's coming to grips with middle age is a theme in the movie, with antique spectacles to remind him that his eyesight isn't what it was, and then he gets caught with his britches down, making a serious and costly error in judgment -- a nod to his getting rusty and becoming a "waste of material" by accepting promotion to admiral -- and after Khan's attack, he mutters to himself about going senile. Earlier in the movie, he'd made a comment about how galloping around the cosmos is a game for the young, Khan has just limped away from round one, and maybe this young officer was right. Eh, the movie's nearly forty years in the can, and while I do think it's the best one they did, there were some writing issues. After Reliant gets away, Kirk points a finger and makes a sharp comment to Saavik about regulations, and her reaction is to look down as if she's been scolded. My take would have been for Kirk to have his rant as he did, as he transitions from a guy behind a desk back to what we saw on TV, older and wiser, while considering the young officer in front of him. Then, only as Shatner could deliver the charm, he'd smile and tell Saavik "Please do keep on quoting regulations," with some kind of "Thank you, sir, I will do my best" from Saavik. Of course, she's invoked later in the movie when Kirk and Spock speak in code, a subtle reminder that there's a reason for regulations ("sometimes", if you're Kirk), and that's how and why things work the way they do on a starship. While the viewer might think Spock was taking a dig at Saavik, that's out of character for him except when he's dealing with Dr. McCoy, and he's communicating to Kirk that they're on the same page with her at this point. I do recall reading at the time, before the change of actress changed the dynamic, that Saavik was intended to be part of the family, and an exchange as I described would have been a way to really bring her into the fold.

I could almost hear Chief O'Hara saying "Saints alive! It's False Face!"

Not on topic, but is your profile pic the Marathon logo? It looks like it.

@@zdude0127 It sure is.

@@UESCBattleDroid Man of culture I see.

There’s no comparison (For me at least!)

@@trekkiedave7910 maybe star trek 4 but I feel that one is good for another reason

Followed by a very close, n some would say better, undiscovered country

I hear you both I love Voyage Home and Undiscovered Country How ballsy was it for Nimoy to do a comedy after Wrath and Search - both such dramatic films - death of Spock - death of David and the destruction of the Enterprise - bring the trilogy home safely and have a good laugh at the same time Nicholas Meyer’s world building with Undiscovered is beyond anything any other Star Trek film has ever done - love the political take and character arcs for both Kirk and Spock Both are amazing films! But, for me - as a 12 year old kid getting out of Sports Day and taking the bus with a group of friends to see Wrath has no comparison Wrath isn’t just my favourite Star Trek film but my overall favourite film of all time I literally love everything about it I have had the original poster framed in my movie room for 20 years It’s perfection - the direction, writing, practical effects Just everything!!!

Not best Trek movie, you are selling this one far too short. This is perhaps the best Sci-fi movies ever, maybe even one of the greatest movies of all time.

It's "KHHHAAANNN!"

Also, Sulu doesn't take his eyes off of his console - perhaps he was manually moving the ships' phasers.

At that point, the shields were not being monitored closely by Khan's crew until the alert that they were dropping sounded making it the best choice of system to be taken over by the prefix code.