ABC News' "Nightline" spoke to cake artist Jack Phillips and married couple Charles Craig and Dave Mullins last week, before the Supreme Court's ruling Monday in Phillips' favor.
veerchasm1 here’s the problem he’s a public service he doesn’t have a right to refuse someone service for an unjustifiable reason. Edit: I take back what I said more than a year later I was wrong the baker had every right to deny service.
This is my thinking: He has a right to be a bigot, yes. And if he wants the bad PR, that's his decision. That being said, I think weddings aren't just religious ceremonies. They're legal too. Furthermore, if two Jewish people came to his shop would he still bake a cake for them?
Apparently the baker has no decision - the state commission decided for him which ended closing his wedding cake line. On the other hand the SC decided to rule for the this baker. As for other business owner, be careful not to deny service to anyone.
Booo hooooooooooo! Stop whining about it and move on you snowflake! You libtards have ruined America! Back in my day we owned slaves, but everyone just had to ruin it with their "civil war"
@@ryt25 Well, if it's your own business, go ahead and forbid Christians if you want to run it that way, you're right it's your choice since you own the place. I'm a Christian and I would simply go to another shop.
From a gay man, this gay couple should've respected this religous mans rights. Just like he respected their ways of being. I sometimes don't understand how we in the community sometimes don't think to respect others people's beliefs when that is all we ask. This makes the couple look like hypocrites, honestly.
dandagod official that’s not how it works, religious freedom only goes as long as it isn’t violating the law. What they private business is doing here is not violating the law, however, your terroristic idea of a religion would be. It scares me that Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sonia Sotomayor both voted in favor of the couple, this is a black and white constitutionality case.
They didn’t go in for anything else, they went in for a wedding cake. He denied them service of buying a wedding cake because they were a same sex couple, that’s discrimination. But honestly if I were them, I just would have gone to another cake maker, wouldn’t want to give homophobe my money anyway.
jfsfrnd Nope, privately owned business. And I went there and he wouldn’t even make Halloween cakes because he disagreed. This proves that he was going off of his religious and moral beliefs. Not because he wanted to discriminate them.
See, that's what's disgusting. They feel this gives them the right to essentially declare war on a fellow American. It's like that line in Animal Farm: All are equal, but some are more equal than others.
@Internet Batman I do believe to this day his business is thriving, you saw how many people came to support him after the fact. “Disgusting bigot” seems to fit you best, because you think you’re so entitled that you “HAVE” to be served so much that you will go to court to force him to serve you, that’s fascism and bigotry.
@Internet Batman I have a very broad vocabulary kid. And you quite literally fit both definitions of fascism and bigotry... You’re refusal to acknowledge that is ignorant. His business is thriving because private donors have helped him with legal fees that the couple brought onto him. “Run a business is to constantly chase business away”, he wasn’t chasing them away he wanted them that’s why he offered them many alternatives, and he never did this once before so it’s clearly the couples problem, not his problem. In America we have the freedom of religion and if you’re saying that he should change his religion just because you don’t like its values is indeed fascism. “You looked like an unhinged snowflake”, says the one who is defending people who are crying about a damn cake. I mean really it’s a cake yet you’re going to bring this to COURT??!! That’s completely irrational and ridiculous. The world doesn’t evolve around you, so just because something doesn’t work out, that doesn’t mean you can throw a fit. EDIT: You say baking is the “gayest” form of cooking, that’s very derogatory, so it seems as if you’re fighting against a brick wall.
@Internet Batman Its not discrimination if you’re given alternatives, not to mention it’s his business, it’s his workplace, if you don’t like it leave, go somewhere else, find another baker, make your own cake. And if it’s okay to refuse someone service because they aren’t wearing a mask, why is it bad to give someone alternatives if they ask for something you’re uncomfortable with. It makes no sense but that’s the direction we’re heading into. If Amazon refused me service I would look for a small business who offers the same services... not bitch and cry about something as stupid as a cake. I’ve never watched Food Network, so you’d have to provide me with something where they openly express baking to be the “gayest form of cooking”. Once again the world doesn’t revolve around YOU, so if you feel hurt don’t make it another persons problem.
Cakes can't be gay but they can have a gay theme cake. Also, the baker while talented should be forced to provide the same level of service and same type of service as he would to a straight couple to a homosexual couple. Now, if he does not want to make a gay themed wedding cake he should not have to.
jfsfrnd no he should not be forced to design a cake in a certain manor or incorporate a certain theme. I stated so earlier. Just because a wedding is celebrating the union of two homosexuals does not mean the wedding cake is going to have a homosexual theme to it.
Ryan Richards i'm an atheist but your comment is very rude even to me. If transgenders have the right to BELIEVE they are what they claim to be, then this man also has the right to believe what he wants to. Since when the right to believe in something becomes so "cruel"?
@Ryan Richards I have never been taught or had enough close feeling to any religion to become its believer. But I don't hate religion. I just base on my common sense here, the baker didn't refuse to bake any other types of cake for the couple, just not a wedding cake. He also sincerely explained his reason. I mean he didn't be disrepectful or curse them. So the couple could have just gone to another bakery, they didn't have to go this far. If they felt offended, maybe just think differently? Just think that the reason he refused to serve comes from him, not from them and move to another bakery. He's the one who lost profit anyway. I have seen some owners refuse to serve customers with reason "I'm not in good mood" LOL
I’m not exactly sure who all y’all are but this fighting needs to stop. @RyanRichards just because you hate Christianity because it goes against what you think is right does not mean you need attack us. You can hate God’s rules all you want but that doesn’t change the fact that those rules are still there. Everything we do is a sin unless it is worshiping God because it is all vain. God gets to save who he wants whenever he wants so technically this gay couple could be saved in the end because are sins are all equal. Nevertheless tho this is our religion and if the gay couple can have the same rights to what they think is right then so do we. So could you plz stop telling us that we need to die and so does our religion. I didn’t mean to start a fight y’all so plz don’t attack me, I just don’t want y’all to keep fighting.
Robert Lynch It’s an independent bakery owned by him. While he denied the service of making a wedding cake (a longer, more time consuming process) for them, he did not say he wouldn’t serve them other things. “maybe he shouldn’t have signed up to be a baker” that is his right and his passion and he is holding to his beliefs. I believe he handled the situation as well as he could. smh
The bakery's tarnished reputation is the direct result of the baker's actions. When he made the decision to deny service on the basis of sexuality, he should've recognized that there would be social consequences, as society generally accepts same-sex marriage nowadays. It may be within his right to deny service to anyone, but the couple also have the right to describe the discrimination to the public.
@@Christopher-D Thai was in 2012 and it still wasn’t very accepted then. It wasn’t even legal everywhere yet. Those two guys just shouldn’t have been little pussys about it and just went somewhere else
@@spidermonkeynuts3851 You Clearly don't understand how business works I've taken business courses and his downfall was inevitable. Business is brutal, competition is everywhere and sites to rate businesses existed then. During that time gay marriage was on a rise and any smart business owner would have taken the opportunity to serve theses men in order to gain more recognition and more customers regardless of belief. His decision was gonna cripple his business whether he liked it or not because people talk, the word would have spread and the business would have been viewed negatively in society. A smart business owner would set their beliefs and political views aside in order to appeal to the masses and to keep their business open as well as make profit, the more people they please the better regardless of how they feel about it.
@@rafaelmartinez-gb3wr A smart business owner would have recognized that serving the gay couple would probably be more benefitial in the long term. But it doesn't mean he would have done so if he also had principles whom he'd put above financial interests. Small businesses aren't exactly the same as Tesco or Wallmart, they aren't fully driven by profit, in the case of a bakery especially, bakers often work out of passion rather than a wish for financial gain.
justin holmes what if a black person wanting a cake and he denied a black person the cake because of his religion it is not okay he should just bake the cake god doesn’t hate anyone
So...he respectfully denied them a cake but offered them cookies, brownies, anything else. Didn’t say anything derogatory about them being a gay couple, just said he wouldn’t create the cake for the wedding...I’m really not seeing where this had to become a federal case...a simple “Oh, that’s disappointing. Thank you for your time.” Would’ve sufficed. Baker was respectful which is exactly how a good Christian man would be...
@@sr2291 They could have found another shop willing to make a wedding cake. Expression is not something that should be compelled. It violates the First Amendment.
@Quinntus79 Define "expression". That's the problem. Churches were invented for religious people to worship in. They don't need to worship at work. They need to do their jobs like everyone else has to.
3:42 “we wrote just a small modest post that said: hey, we were discriminated against this cake shop”. No, that is no true, they did not just wrote a small note on discrimination, they clearly urged hatred demonstrations against the baker, as much so that they provided the picture and information and asked people to send (not exactly friendly) e-mails to the baker. That was inciting people against the baker, no matter which way we want to see their action. They were not the victims, they were vengeful and hateful people who got their way by having the baker receiving death threats. I am glad the baker got back his business and we all got confirmed our rights to create what we want and what we believe in. NOBODY should be forced to create something that they disagree on, whatever the reason that be.
@@greysonG10 "a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions." Nowadays people put the "bigot" label on others who don't agree with them on controversial topics. An example would be not agreeing with / not supporting LGBTQASDFASDFASDF+
cameron crayton I think not agreeing with someone's existence or rights is plenty bigoted so the baker is a bigot. He can pretend and say " ohhh I'm so niceeee to gay people " but do you really think he voted for gay rights?
@@theneverone Not supporting something you don't believe in/agree with is not the same as being intolerant. I think the baker is more worried about being allowed to run his business in alignment with his religious beliefs rather than fighting against the gay couple and their rights.
I’m bisexual and I support the Baker. Go to a different bakery. It would be one thing if he refused service entirely, but he was fine with birthday cakes or anything else - just not a wedding cake. Leave him alone.
I am also bi and i agree with you. It wasn't fair to the baker. The two guy shouldn't have taken it that far. There was honestly no need for all this drama. Just go to another baker, there are plenty of them out there who would happily oblige. The baker doesn't deserve all this hate. I feel bad for his small business that was destroyed because of this situation.
Pasta Zi Bearlid He actually ended up fine after the trial thankfully because he was allowed to start selling wedding cakes again and choose who to make them for. :) But I agree. They made such a big deal out of it. Just go to a different baker! They really just needed everyone to accommodate their choice.
Dan Shivers That’s very hypocritical to say because the lgbt will only defend people who are in the lgbt not everybody, do you realize that people all over the world gets discriminated every day and none of the lgbt makes any noise to defend them, where was the lgbt when 10 Christians were decapitated by isis simply for no denying God? where were the lgbt when many african american Christians woman , men even childrens were burned alive just for being Christian? Where were the lgbt when the Christian church were killed with a rifle? Where is the lgbt when schools discriminate childrens for being black, but when their was killings in a gay club in orlando that’s when the lgbt start showing support and protest.
Dan Shivers lgbt community being around for many years what haven’t they done anything yet? I mean if you would start thinking in defending and stand up for everybody wouldn’t you start doing it after you thought about ? Even if you don’t want to accept it just face it that they did this just because he is a Christian that doesn’t support the lgbt because even you agree with me that people get discriminated everyday and they don’t do nothing about it.
@@ryt25 You can't deny someone product just because they are Christian. Maybe if they asked you to make a product for their church or Christian event, sure you could deny that. But if they just want product, you can't deny it because of their religion
That went out the window back during the Civil rights era when it turns out you actually cannot refuse service to anyone on the basis of race, ethnicity or sex.
Gay or not, those guys just seem like genuinely awful people. It's like they're just dripping with entitlement. I'm not even religious, but I'm glad the baker won; he appears to be a really sweet man. Honestly wishing the best for him from here on out.
Punkyagogo yeah, they just seem like shit starters. They show the cake guy doing his thing...it's creating a painting on a cake. They show them doing their thing...their heads are in their computers and they are typing away furiously...like wtf? Are they just professional facebookers or something?
SquareRootOf2 Seeking justice in court is harassment? I don't personally think they have a valid case but you just seem like someone who likes to jail people just for being different. That's pretty lame..
It was them who started this campaign of harassment against this honest and helpless baker, tweeting about it, suing and arising hate against him. These people are POS that only care about themselves and their narcissism and their sexual desires imposed on other people. Of course I care when these disgusting activists try to impose their twisted worldview on others. I care a lot. Not about what they stick up their asses in private but about their hateful, fascist way to impose themselves on others, abusing the natural tolerance of honest people. There are plenty of "normal" gays that go about their business without bothering others. I don't mind about honest gays but gay activists should be dealt with like they do in Muslims countries, who are very tolerant and the religion of peace and Holy Qu'ran has humane treatment for them. Or are you one of those Slavic Islamophobes?
If a baker refuses to sell his cake for religious reasons to black couple because he thinks that black people shouldn't have any rights, would you be OK with that?
@@uai6107 Christians in 19th century Southern USA believed that. Maybe those beliefs weren't really aligned with what Bible actually said, but they generally believed that, based on the myth of Noah and his sons. Since their religious beliefs were that black people shouldn't have any rights, should they be allowed to refuse to sell a cake to black couple? Yes or no?
That will never happen in the US. In fact LGBTQ rights will be the end of the radical leftists, the media has done its job well and spewed the right amount of truth seeds to make people understand that LGBTQ people are just people like the rest of us and they deserve no more rights than us. They will be treated like equals which would be service denial is in the picture. Free market is what America stands for and you will be shocked how you will not have any form of social justice power in a few years. Oh and another thing, Pride is not even a real thing, everyone should be proud of who they are and LGBTQ community ruined a beautiful word by trying to make it their own. Prepare yourself for a long life of disappointment and misery with that mindset because that's the only thing you are getting out of this.
Setwhattt LMAO no it's not because there's a difference between race and sexuality so try again. Also, the baker would have probably served the couple a birthday cake or even a graduation cake happily, it's just that a wedding cake celebrates marriage and it is against his religion to celebrate the MARRIAGE of same sex couples point blank. The baker wasn't being disrespectful or slanderous towards the couple either. He declined them politely and they still wanted to create controversy out of nothing.
Dude I'm LGBT and honestly I side with the baker because I don't wanna force someone to do something they don't wanna do and not for hateful reasons he's a nice person he just dosen't want to do it for deep religious beliefs and I wouldn't want someone to go against that for my benefit.
Either you're just saying your queer to get attention or you actually are... either way, this is segregation... and the same laws that protect the baker also.... 1) Allow doctors to refuse medical care to LGBTQ+ people 2) Allow religious institutions to fire queer people just because of their orientation/identity 3) Protect religious based adoption agencies when they deny services to same sex couples while still demanding that those same people pay their salaries (as many are tax payer funded) ... I could go on and on and on. If you really are who you say you are, why would you want to protect religious privilege before protecting so many people's livelihoods?
@@KeilyShhh No I'am Non-Binary and Pansexual, but it's actually not, and to break down what you said. You shouldn't be a doctor if you're not going to treat everyone, if religious institutions want to be hateful then the public will decide weather or not to take part with them, and religious based adoption agencies should frankly not exist. Anything that is taxpayer funded should 100% treat people equally regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity. But here's the thing, if that baker was forced to make a cake that goes against his religious beliefs for an LGBTQ+ Couple, that would also samely apply to an LGBTQ+ Baker being forced to make a homophobic cake despite being Episcopalian or Unitarian Universalist or Presbyterian or some other LGBTQ+ accepting church and having those beliefs. The script can be flipped in a lot of unfortunate ways, and I know if I owned my own business I would not want to be forced to serve someone hateful, and I don't think this man should be told who we can or can't serve. Honestly I think business should be required to post that in the window so we know what kind of places we're spending our money at and weather or not they care about us or not. But no, must of what you mentioned, that can have an extremely valid argument for why that shouldn't be in place and doesn't "go against someones religious protections" cause it does harm the public overall, but this cake thing, it doesn't, and I think of how if he court hadn't sided with the baker, how this could be weaponized, and that's honestly more terrifying.
@@sunnyboi2461 Okay, I'm sorry for accusing you of lying about your orientation and identity. And I do hear what you're saying and yes, there is nuance in this debate. But first of all, saying that it's wrong for doctors to deny care because to those they are prejudice against doesn't change the fact that it happens and that it's perfectly legal. It doesn't change the fact that people who need medical care are being forced to look elsewhere (sometimes even in emergency situations). And yes, faith-based child care services should not exist... That doesn't change the fact that they do exist and that reform needs to happen so that queer people don't have to pay for services that they are being denied. My big question/point is this: 1) I hear your point that concerns freedom of speech. One thing I would say though is that if someone denies services to one individual that they ALSO deny to EVERYONE ELSE, that is very different than denying services to someone that you DO provide to other people. For example, someone who bakes wedding cakes for straight couples but denies the exact same service to LGBQ+ folks. In the latter example, it's the queer individuals that are being denied services rather than the baker simply using their own discretion. 2) When the same laws that protect artists from denying services to us queer folks ALSO protects anyone who denies essential services/employment to us... can you tell me how you would neatly make it so that under absolutely NO circumstances are we denied services that will hurt our livelihoods? 3) And when businesses can post notes in their windows that tell queer people "You are not welcome here" or "Go somewhere where you are welcome"... that's segregation. It was segregation when it applied to people of color and is no different than when it's directed towards us. I'd quote MLK Jr. when he said "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". I know it's just a freaking cake but there's more to it than just that.
@@KeilyShhh there's obviously more to this then it just being a cake. And no kidding, it doesn't the change facts all those things currently exist, that's why I'm glad I live in California where those things thankfully don't exist and with my work in politics, work to elect people to help try and fix those problems in this country. And I'll be honest, personally, I sort of agree that any private business should have the ability to serve or not serve whomever they want too, I mean we protect hate speech in this country, and if people want to be racist or sexist or homophobic then air those feelings out to everyone so we know where too or not too spend our money. And to your question of how to make sure that those laws that might protect those things don't interfere with people being denied essential services or civil rights or anything of that nature. If your part of a company, that is getting any sort of funds from the government, then you should be required to have to follow anti-discrimination laws, and that includes any places with SBA Loans or Govt Subsidies or a Federal Contract. Like I'd feel that would be the only way to get any sort of version of The Equality Act passed and have some protections at least when it comes to public services and those kinds of things you talked about.
If GAYS aren't going to respect someone's religion then why should we respect them. Edit: I have homosexual friends, but they are very respectful and they would never go into a bakery, knowing the man was religion and force him to bake a cake.
It'sMeHere Yo The use of religion to kill LGBT+ people is why we generally don't blindly respect religious beliefs. It is dangerous to let people going about hating us because one day I could be beaten on the street because I choose to wear my rainbow shirt on the wrong day. Your " beliefs " hurt people my refusal to respect religion blindly hurts no one.
It'sMeHere Yo So you are openly stating you would abuse someone for wearing a pride shirt provided they are on your property? Oh and don't try " it's my property and legally I can " If you beat up a 13 year old trying to get their basketball that accidentally rolled on your lawn If you abused a client you invited to your home If you shot your neighbor's dog for going on your lawn You know people would get furious with you. You are a bad person honestly
"5 years later that interaction still stings: I was mortified, I mean neither one of us had ever been treated this way before at a bisnuss" I can't behleve the let some softy who got their feelings hurt over a cake go all the way to supreme Court. Parrents, please raise your kids better.
Parents are being undermined on all sides- Society, public school, sports, peer pressure etc. Parents can do their best to provide, be involved & still lose the battle as the kids hear the "sirens" drawing them down a dark road. At the end of the day, kids choose to be & do, regardless of upbringing. I know this bc I was a foster kid for almost 8 yrs of childhood. I decided for myself what type of person I wanted to be- with the help of Almighy God.
How immature adults behave when they have been told no. A type of tantrum if you ask me. As a woman, I have seen females getting into witchcraft because they want their way. I pray to God for maturity in our earth.
I'm also an atheist and I 100% agree with you. I am also okay with gay people getting married (honestly because I don't really give a shit what people do), so both people the right and the left give me shit. If this was a Muslim baker I would be saying the same thing. I am in support of everyone's right to believe whatever they want, I just do not want: 1. Laws based off of religion 2. Anyone's beliefs shoved down my kid's throat People need to lighten up...
@@lancec7027 Psalm 14 King James Version (KJV) 14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. 2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. 3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the Lord.
Psalm 14 King James Version (KJV) 14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. 2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. 3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the Lord.
2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
@@dwayneoneil689 Quoting your religious book is not really making a point. Watch, I'll give an example: Luke 19:26-27 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them-bring them here and kill them in front of me.’” Jesus sounded like a dick (but in the end, this is a book of fiction). Even though I was in support of this guy's (the baker) right to his beliefs (and everyone else's for that matter) you decide to push your faith on someone you don' know (and attempt to insult them by doing so). How "Christian" of you...
I'm with the business owner. He has the right to refuse service and he has a right to say his faith. The guys should have just toughened up and go to another bakery
We are Not Government workers that do and bake what they force to , we have religious freedom and free speech. God bless this man for staying strong in his faith.
I'm so thankful that Jesus suffered on the cross so a baker didn't have to make a cake! Phew...all that pain and suffering for a cake was worth it...PS more then 50% of Americans are in poverty...better blame the gays for that one too! They don't deserve cake.
Fortnite Clips And you don't want to understand, nor are you asked to defend yourself. If you don't believe in God, Jesus, the Bible, fine. Your accountability.
"creating a generic wedding cake" would be an issue because that would be like "separate but equal" service. The baker's choice to politely refuse was clearly the best option for everyone involved.
And he didn't say he wouldn't serve lgbtq people. He just says he wouldn't bake a cake celebrating their union. You wouldn't go into a muslim restraunt and order pork.
It's a slippery slope. For example I support Jack's right to not make a wedding cake because that goes against his religious beliefs. But if he didn't want to make them lets say a birthday cake or anything else because they're gay I wouldn't support that. Do you think a business should be able to turn away black people just for being black or chinese people for being chinese? Just because it's a private business?
@@jsilva7005 that my friend is the free market. He turns away someone for being black he will lose money because of the couple he turned away and the people the couple told. However he should have the right to do whatever he wants. It's in his interest to not turn them away. There is more then 1 cake business out there.
Beliefs differ and it’s his business. He built it and can choose to deny his customers. He’s the one losing money at the end of the day. This was just done for attention and you can’t deny that after how much it of it it’s gotten.
Would you go in a hindu restaurant and demand beef ? Or a Muslim on and demand pork? Why should the Christian baker forced against his religion He was ready to serve them, was polite to them...... Just didn't agree to make a wedding cake because of what his religion says about it
As a gay man myself I think it’s ridiculous to force someone’s hand to bake you a wedding cake if they don’t respect your choice of who you chose to marry. Don’t you want people in your wedding ceremony because they are happy for you? Both of you ? I would turn around and tell the baker: Fine, It’s you’re business’ loss then.
Would you walk into a Jewish cake shop & expect them to make you a Jesus cake? Would walk into a Muslim cake shop & expect them to draw naked women on your cake? I wouldn't walk into an LGBT cake shop & expect them to make me something that goes against there beliefs. That's equality...
Equality is treating everyone equally, so a Jewish cake shop WOULD make a Jesus cake. A Muslim cake shop WOULD for whatever reason draw a woman on your cake. Those two religions both believe in being human. Being humans means you treat people kindly, fairly, and with respect (for the record so does Christianity).
This baker is way to sweet, the gay guy claimed he never ever had been treated this way as if someone beat him up because of his sexual orientation when in reality all the baker did was deny decorating the cake also apologizing them for the inconvenience and offering them other goods. I'm glad he won. These people disgust me.
@Your local redhead feminist Over 42 million Americans (13% of total population) believe it's "always wrong" for two people of a different race to marry, many for religious reasons. Do you support a baker's right to bake wedding cakes for couples of the same race, but to refuse them to interracial couples?
Derek Williams It’s his rights. I would serve anyone if I was a baker but I could see why he wouldn’t because of his religious beliefs. I think he should have he right to deny service to anyone as long as he has a valid reason for example religion.
Thank God he won in the end. What a strong, courageous man. Hope he can put traditional wedding cakes back in business too, and never have a problem like that again.
He did not win in the end. The Colorado Commission made disparaging comments about Jack and his religion so they threw the case out and made a narrow decision only for the baker and only for this one time.
Why should someone's right to buy a cake trump someone's right to freedom of religion? Its hypocritical to say its discrimination of your sexuality, when you're discriminating based on the bakers religion. There are dozens of bakers to choose from, it wouldn't have taken much to say 'That's a shame, but we respect your rights. We will go somewhere else' As a right leaning libertarian, if you want to have a same-sex marriage fine, that's your right. But you can't go into a church/mosque/synagogue/bakery/florist and force them to hold or be involved in the ceremony, in the same way as a Christian/Muslim/Jew can't force you to go to their religious ceremony Tolerance works both ways. If you want people to be tolerant of how you live your life, you need to be tolerant of how others live their life, whether you agree with their decisions or not, thats just basic human respect
God bless this baker. He so clearly felt bad and didn't want to offend anyone. He stood up for what he believed in and took the consequence of going against the lgbt's opinion of what's equal service or not.
Charles F ijr.com/2018/06/1105181-jack-phillips-successful-supreme-court/ Says it's booming? Only thing hurting him from what I've read in other articles is yelp reviews.
T G was it equality when businesses refused to serve African Americans? Was that fair? If we give the right for a business to deny service towards anyone, we give the right for all businesses to deny service to any group they choose.
Henry Sendra Yes...When said African Americans cause a disruption, they can be asked to leave. I’ve done it several times. It’s not my fault if your presence causes a disturbance. If you bring down my business, I’m kicking your ass out. If you stole my hat, I can kick you out of my store. If you decide to mock my religion by pretending to have a ceremony I find sacred, Well we all know where this headed.
kimmie Wise I was mentioning innocent people who just wanted to be served. It was completely unfair to not allow them service based on their skin tone. Also, gay people aren’t pretending to have marriage, they are legally getting married, and there’s nothing you can do to stop them from doing so other than blind violence.
Jane Doe I agree it’s harmful when anyone is mistreated when trying to be a patron of a restaurant or store, and I can sort of see where the baker is coming from with the wedding cake, it still doesn’t make much sense to me that we can allow an public shop to pick and choose which people are allowed to purchase which items. I also appreciate your civility in your replies to my comment. Thank you.
Henry Sendra I believe a business has a right to refuse to anyone for any reason... just say nothing at all and don’t serve who you don’t want keep your mouth shut ask them to leave and move on avoid any problwms
I'm very glad that the baker won, but I'm even more glad that there are still people like him left that stands up for his faith regardless of the consequences. God Bless Jack Phillips, and I really hope to be like him.
Yes, I hope I can be more like him too, the fact that this is even a debate in what is meant to be the most Christian country on earth is evidence enough for how we have let things slip so much
I'm a gay man and I'm on the baker's side. How about we force a Jewish bakery to bake a cake commemorating Hitler next? I heard those guys knew he wouldn't bake that cake and they just went there to stir up trouble. GO TO ANOTHER BAKERY!
O fuk, i stand corrected. Still, I agree with the decision tho, the supreme court's logic is pretty sound. Read here: www.cnn.com/2018/06/04/politics/masterpiece-colorado-gay-marriage-cake-supreme-court/index.html
I am definitely in support of the baker... and reading the comments I'm so happy that most of us agree that forcing someone to go against their religious beliefs for our own benefit is quite hypocritical. I hope the Baker gets back to making wedding cakes again.
vil muslimbill Muslim and amish are seen as minorities but since the shop owner was a straight white man who's a christian, it's okay to attack him apparently
Vladimir K I am very well educated. It is possible to be Christian and gay as well. I have a few friends who are both. Or do you think that it’s okay to deny gay people the right to religious freedom? (The very thing you are fighting for for this man)
London Girl "Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God" . (Corinthians 6:9-10). Lady, your friends are either lying to themselves or they don't know better. Here is more "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination"(Leviticus 18:22). You cannot be gay and christian, in this case you either dishonest or misinformed.
Why can’t we agree to disagree!? I don’t believe in your lifestyle and you don’t believe in my faith...you don’t want me to push my faith/beliefs on you, and I don’t want you to push your beliefs on me. God please bless this man and his business! I stand with him! 🙌🏾🙏🏾
@Young Nala what does that have to do with her ancestors?? She choses to believe in an entity that is beyond her humanity and you here attacked her because her "religion" ?? People can't have the choice of belief anymore right?! See people like you are the problem, you're never satisfied about bringing down other people who have different opinions about a situation but when it vomes to Christianity it's all about how it facilitated slavery and now also hate towards the lgbt people, y'all forgot that other religions were also involved deeply. But I won't get into an argument because y'all don't want to see the truth of what truly history was but rather content yourselves with the only negative aspects and not trying to dig deep to seek the truth. Well a day will come and you will all understand, I simply pray and hope it won't be too late when it happens!!
I hope you get denied service in a cafe for being black. Then you can understand what this is really about. But, I doubt you ever will because you have been hypnotized with religion.
@@ak14serko44 uh, calm down and try to think for a moment. Her ancestors were oppressed; that is why it is relevant. She is ignoring her own personal history and committing oppression herself. Of course she has the right to her belief. No one has denied that. AND, by the same token, others have the right to criticize her for her belief. See how that works?
andyiswonderful well guess what? That happens to still go on today. You can’t compare my skin color to your sexual PREFERENCE/CHOICE. What your ppl did to my ppl are still going on. Should I hate you for that? Some of the LGBT community are racist, should I hate them for that? No because I understand that the ppl who used the Bible and “religion” to do evil things where not Christians. Idc what they said they were, if you aren’t showing love and mercy then you aren’t a Christian. Now you in fact maybe racist since you left that kind of comment lol but it’s ok I’ll pray for you and I love you! Just because I don’t agree with your lifestyle it doesn’t mean I hate you or any gay person❤️
As a private business owner he has the right to refuse service for whatever reason. I don't understand why people don't get that and try to force their views on other people. I am not religious but I respect his right to run his shop guided by his faith. I find it horrendous that the gay couple wanted their choice respected but they had no respect for his religious rights. It is too bad that he had to decide to stop making wedding cakes because of this case. I am sure that it did cost him a lot in lost income.
I live in Texas, and when I get married I'll have my wedding cake designed at his store... I'm black Straight Christian values He didn't discriminate against them he tried to accommodate them in the best way he could for the service he provides. He offered them a straight cake, instead of a gay cake 😂. Thanks for letting me know where to get my cake made.
These guys are such hypocrites they want the baker to accept them, but they don’t accept the bakers religious beliefs. This world is getting really sad.
Angeleyez cosmetics you do realize the couple THEMSELVES could be devoutly Christian? In which case the baker and the couple would share the same religious beliefs. I can tell you, the majority of homosexuals are not atheists. Additionally, you could argue this back and forth all day. “They want the baker to accept them but they don’t accept the baker’s beliefs”. People in opposition of that could just say “the baker wants them to accept his beliefs, yet he won’t accept them”. You make a weak case for perpetuating discrimination. Almost as shallow an argument as those advising them to just “go to another bakery”. Well, since refusing certain services to them is ok for this bakery, what if every store was run by someone who shared this man’s beliefs? (you’d find some in the south). Then they’d have no where to go. Why rely on people to individually chose whether their business implements discriminatory policies or not? If your views impede the services people should otherwise be entitled to, perhaps business practices actually should be a bit more regulated. Dumb business move on his part, anyway. The practice of selling commodities should transcend all bias and focus solely on products and profit. I mean, where do you draw the line? The baker stated he’d sell them anything but a cake, since cake was a symbol of their marriage, but what if the couple asserted they would instead purchase a mound of brownies and substitute their wedding cake for that. Would he still have sold them to the couple? Had they come back to that place to have a nice dessert on their honeymoon, and clearly made the baker aware of the occasion, would they still have been served then? Sure, I’m against murder, but say I owned a hardware store and an individual walked in aiming to purchase some of my most expensive gardening tools, doing so respectfully and fairly, but he happened to be a murderer, I would sell them to him anyway, not allowing my personal bias to hinder my sale of goods and the fulfillment of his needs. Now of course, if he intended to use these tools maliciously I would be personally obliged not to sell them to him, since the consequences of doing so would be the injury or death of another person, but in the context of this video, no one was going to potentially suffer as a result of selling the couple a cake. So, despite being against murder, just as I would sell the gardening tools to a person who had once killed and now wishes to tend to his garden, what is right for a business is objectiveness and if a couple walks in wishing to buy a cake, unless they were planning to light candles atop the frosting and burn down a church with it, I believe in selling it to them regardless of personal bias since morality is arbitrary and subjective and should not play a part in running a business.
Are the rights of the luncheonette owners who refused to serve blacks more important than the feelings of the blacks who were refused service? If you were educated in the United States and born after 1980, it is no surprise that you were never taught anything about how public accommodation laws came into being. However, it is a bit disheartening that you don't seem to think all categories of Americans should be treated equal.
@@schuylkillmike8048 you're a dumb fuck who actually needs to read the cases and decisions about this baker The guy will serve anyone, gay, straight, trans, black, white, asian at his bakery BUT when it comes to the art on the cake he will not craft art which disagrees with his religious beliefs. This is not at all a denial of service case, if you read the case notes, because he never said he wouldn't serve certain people, just that he will not create art with certain messages; because of his religious beliefs he won't even make Halloween Themed Cakes. And that should be the right of any artist.
@O K No one is using blacks as a stepping stone, my overly-sensitive friend. It a comparison of minority groups with immutable traits guaranteed equal service under the law. If you don't want blacks refused service because of their immutable traits, then you can't justify discrimination against another minority group for their immutable traits.
@@johnnybravo5962 Clearly you are not as familiar with the SCOTUS case as you think. I suggest you actually read the SCOTUS hearing transcript and ruling. The Baker refused to sell the gay couple the same product/services that he sold to non-gays. That's like telling a black couple they can't have lunch at the counter, but can pick up some chewing gum through the take-out window. The baker sold wedding cakes to everyone EXCEPT gay couples. The baker now has a better understanding of the Colorado laws that his business must follow, and he no longer makes wedding cakes for anyone.
@Crazy melon ! Like if a goverment discriminated against a baker for his religious beliefs? Discrimination is a necessary part of life. You only disagree with discrimination when it involves a group you are politically affliated with. Grow up.
@Crazy melon ! You can not even put a coherent sentence together. Your lack of appropriate punctuation demonstrates you have the IQ of a turnip. The state threatened to prosecute him if he didn't bake the cake. Even after he won his lawsuit the state continued to harass him. You have no idea what you are talking about. The First Amendment was explicitly written to protect religious people.
@Crazy melon ! Being "hurt" is irrelevant. Citizens have the right to worship God as they see fit. You have a first amendment right. You have no right to force someone to make you a cake. These assholes tried to FORCE a guy to bake them a cake that was in direct contridiction to his religious beliefs. Not only that, they used the government to do it. Screw them theu are evil people.
@@faye3861 making someone go against there religious beliefs because you want stuff to go your way dosnt work lol the lgbtq community wants freedom so bad but dosnt respect anyone else's freedom
Do you say that to an interrcial couple, if a baker doesn't approve of marriage between the races? Over 40 million Americans still believe God opposes miscegenation. And what if it's. one-horse town with only one bakery, and it's a 140 mile drive to the next, and THEY don't serve gays or blacks either?
Friendly Oats Also, autism is a behavior by your definition. Schizophrenia is a behavior by your definition. Interracial marriage is a behavior by your definition. Wanna deny an interracial straight couple service?
3:36 it's basically asking people to bully the shop owner. If they have problems go to the court. Idk why but left liberals and LGBT people think that it's for them to decide what's right and what's wrong.
kleyton rossi wrong Christians are finally losing to gays the united states just legalized gay marriage across the united states. And Ireland legalized gay marriage gays 2 Christians 1 so who is losing the war
Charles F well this “war” was about the freedom of religion beliefs... what you are talking about is something different. It’s a different war and honestly most people don’t care... the thing is to recognize the religious freedom that Christians have and don’t force us to do something that we believe is not right.
kleyton rossi first of the baker had absolutely no right to use his business as a platform to spread his hate based on his relgous beliefs and the supreme court failed to see that and it should have been 7-0 in favor of the gay couple as a message his business practice was unethical
Charles F how was he spreading hate??? This man would’ve sold them cupcakes, brownies and etc. he just didn’t do cakes because it’s a form of art. His art is created for a man and a woman. Why don’t you guys get that?!? In the video, no form of hate was shown by him. Hate came from the LGBT people who were trying to force him to bake something that went against his religious belief. I’m surprised that people have yet to know that us Christians are against hate
@@keithwilson6060 No I don't. Then again I'm not the one getting pleasure out of a total stranger's pain. Again I ask, do you consider Rosa Parks or MLK drama queens as well?
Jayden S I don’t want to serve Christians, black people or Jews in my store. It’s my bakery, it’s my rules. See how stupid you sound? Just because a business is yours doesn’t mean that you have a “god given” right to discriminate against people? My god I’m so glad I don’t live in America anymore.
London Girl freedom of race preference is not protected. So yes, that would be discriminatory. However, freedom of religion is protected under the 1st amendment.
@@mylifepostpain3705, Businesses have the right to deny service if they choose to. It's that simple if you don't like, buy somewhere else. If you want to deny services to Christians, blacks, and Jews you certainly could. However, you would most likely lose money and customers. See, we don't need the Government to get involved, Capitalism takes care of the problem on its own.
andyiswonderful No they would not as evidenced by the suicides of Nazi leaders and the fleeing of Nazis to places like Argentina after WW2. Those die hard Nazis certainly didn’t stand up for their beliefs once they were out of power.
andyiswonderful I disagree but nonetheless I wouldn’t compare a Christian baker refusing service even remotely equivalent to the attempted genocide of the Jews.
I am glad the baker won this case. You cannot force someone to make something that goes against there beliefs. I am deeply religious too and I would not want to be forced to make something I didn't want to.
They cost him 40 percent of his business. He could have caved and said, sorry God, money is more important. He took a stand. He has my blessing. God's law is above man's law.
@@mylifepostpain3705 Your name says it all. How's the knifing over there? You fools banned guns now people are stabbing everyone. Up over 1000% and i'm sure you see it all over the news. Your area is so shite you need to worry about your own godless country.
G A says the man whose from a country where a mass shooting happens literally every week. Yes we have a knife problem, which is actually getting better due to new laws passed two weeks ago. Where as Donald Duck in the White House thinks it’s still too premature to talk about gun control. How many people need to die before Americans pull their fingers out of their asses and actually do something about it?!
1) Baker refuses to make cake. 2) Baker gets a multi-year lawsuit. 3) Baker loses 40% of his business and gets death threats. 4) Who's the victim here?
>The baker is an adult and makes his own choices. So is the couple, who believed that being a good human is to force their beliefs in other people's throat, instead of going to another shop.
I watched that video and then went into the comment section to see all the bull shit people would post about how that guy is a bigot or whatever, but I'm pleasantly surprised to have seen so many positive responses in support of the baker
This is not the only baker this has happened to. His freedom of speech and religion was not respected. It’s not that he wouldn’t let them buy anything in his shop. He decorates wedding cakes according to his beliefs. I’d bet he wouldn’t decorate a wedding cake for a satanist. Is that also discrimination? When do religious rights become equal to all other rights?
Someone did commission him to make a cake for Satan with an upsidedown-cross on it. I think this was merely out of spite of him being a Christian baker and standing firm by his beliefs.
Adam Brier and I will not make you cake because it’s against my religion. Lmao 😂 see how absolutely dumb you sound. Also because of this you should check the news out. South Dakota wants to make a law to stop serving colored people now. Sure are making America great again. Lol if I wasn’t making so god damn much money here I’d move to Canada.
Adam Brier you do realize that Democrats are a majority and this ruling may have passed for now but we won’t give a fuck what you think in a couple years. You can look back at this post and cry your eyes out cuz the blue waves coming baby and your a minority.
Dave Mustaine So you support him just because you are a Christian. You do know that Christians aren’t as special and wonderful as they seem to think they are right? Everybody is equal and everybody should have to be treated equally by law when in a business open to the public. You can’t tell gay people that they can have anything in the shop they want except for this product this product and this product because that is offering them a lesser service and is discrimination. Whether the discrimination is based on your religious beliefs or not is besides the point. If it’s in the shop/on the menu then it should be sold to all regardless of faith, sexuality or skin colour. Obviously there are some exceptions, ie, messages of degradation and hate towards any person or group of people should not have to be conveyed etc.
@@Lucky210309 it's his right to refuse service. The guy isn't even homophobic he refuses to make cakes that represent homosexuality and anti-homosexuality
If one business refuses you a service, GO FIND ANOTHER BUSINESS!!!! You are not entitled to insisting on one business for your demands. There are other businesses that can offer you a service. Honestly.
What that couple did was try to harass a man minding his own business because they couldn't put up with whoever has a different point of view. They didn't want a cake, they wanted to destroy a man's livelihood over his views on marriage. Choosing not to go against your own code isn't a display of hate and intolerance, but forcing somebody to do something they don't want to do and taking them to court definitely is. Why can't these "victims" realize that we can all get along just fine as long as we agree to disagree instead of forcing people to live by their rules?
I know right. They knew he was Christian and if they don't like it go away. If this was a Buddist, Jewish, Muslim, or even Hindi etc. then there would be no problem
He got targeted by the Satanic Temple still, and they told bakers to make cakes for Satan. Obviously, this doesn't work in his case because he doesn't make wedding cakes anymore, asking him to make a cake for Satan would desecrate his religion. That's like asking a Jew to make a Nazi cake. The Satanic Temple can say whatever they want about fighting for religious freedom, but they are not a religion, it is an anti-Christian advocacy group comprised of I assume all Atheists. People can be really evil in this world.
That couple sounds self entitled. You do what you want, you cannot force someone to do things your way. They are just forcing their beliefs on him. He never asked to not get married, he never refused them a cake. He just doesn't want to design something that is against his religious beliefs.
Just from first impressions, the gay couple seems arrogant and like they're seeking a fight, whereas the Christian man seems humble and not looking to offend, just staying true to his convictions. I respect that.
That's not really what happened.. he discriminated against them based upon his own subjective beliefs.. that's wrong.. the conservative-leaning Supreme Court got it wrong
The Jock, what so aren’t the gay couple all about “equality” and “freedom of speech”? They are taking that exact thing away from the man. He refused to make them a cake because of his religion in a country where you have freedom of speech. The hypocrisy is real from the gay couple.
@@Aqixtez that's not material to the complaint. in this country, if you offer a service to the public, you can't be selective over who receives that service.. That violates someone civil liberties.. the Supreme Court knows that, that's why they made such a narrow ruling..
The Jock, “such a narrow ruling”. Yet they were still in favour of the Baker. If it were such a huge issue and if the gay couple did have a valid argument they would’ve won. Yet I don’t see them celebrating. No point in arguing if the legal system has gone in favour of the baker.
@@Aqixtez actually, if you review the case, they didn't really favor the baker.. they found fault in the review process from the state of Colorado's civil rights division.. regardless, it was an arbitrary decision..
