If you have a screw or bolt with a stripped out drive feature, this video will show you a useful technique for getting your assembly apart and exposing some of the screw for easy extraction. Take a look.
This has become my "go to" You Tube channel for machining instruction and tips. Instruction quality is second to none. Having said that I've used this screw removal procedure many times over the years because it works but what I learned today was saving and using the head as a beveled washer under a cap screw. Great idea!
Hi Joe, as always great material. I believe 'This Old Tony' is one of the most talented contributors on RU-vid. As you say everything is in his material and he has the foresight to include other folks in his work too. Thanks for sharing. Kindest regards. Joe.
This Old Tony has some great content and a wicked sense of humor. He has no problem poking fun at the other RU-vid machinists and working with them to extend the fun.
Very good demo. My technique is 1- tap with sharp punch to see if it is loose at all. 2- decide if it is best to Lh drill and see if it catches and extracts or with an EZout or if not too much below surface, weld a washer to it and also a nut on top of the washer and let the heat from the weld work for you while wrenching it back and forth till loose. Most of my work is in the field and usually larger than 1/4" so for the most part the welding technique works best. Sometimes you just have to drill it out and retap or enlarge for an insert. On some work I had no choice but to disassemble and take to the shop I deal with and have them EDM it out. And you are right, the first thing I say when I get a call for a broken part is DON'T TOUCH IT ! Thanks, Ed K. Cleve. Oh.
I believe the reason the bolt is easy to turn loose after removing the head is not because the head is the part that is mostly jammed in place. It's because when the bolt is properly tightened, it is under tension. The bolt is actually stretched a bit which provides the clamping force holding the parts together - that's just the bolt doing its job. At this point, the bolt will not back out easily because the tension is jamming the 60 degree threads. When you remove the bolt head, the tension is released. Now the remaining part of the bolt will screw out easily - at least if it's not corroded in place!
A lot of years ago, my father broke the heads off two of the bolts holding the thermostat cover on his Ford Granada Mk 2. I removed them by MIG welding a couple of M6 nuts to the headless studs that remained stuck in the thermostat housing. Not only did it give me something substantial to grip, I'm sure that the heat in the welding process helped to break the bond.
Before I got sick I was a robotics engineer in the pharmaceutical industry. Many many times I'd have to travel around the country or sometimes the world to repair an instrument for a very important customer. They didn't trust a regular service guy they wanted an engineer on site so there I would go. I always carried a Dremel and diamond circular cutters in my bag. I would turn a stripped screw into a flat head screw with a Dremel it is very easy to do . It might not be the most elegant solution but it works every time
I knew a guy that broke off so many bolts, the bolts in the hardware store would cower in the back of the bins and push the weakest bolts towards the front when he came in.
This is the exact technique I use with damaged screws in aviation, mostly with hand drills though but it works wonders. Especially when I don't have access to the back of the screw.
hello Joe enjoyed this video, especially helpful, you used a small pice of pipe to add leverage on the allen wrench. i will now keep these pices of pipe. Unintended on your part but very helpful for me. i will keep watching Thanks jim Murphy San Diego
Have had to remove a lot of counter sunk screws in my life and have seen the wrong counter sink angles used before. The head, when done properly has amazing gripping force compared to regular SHCS screws.
Hey Joe , cool way to get out a bolt. I wish it would have been that easy when I was working on cars. 1 install mill on car and proceed lol 2 turn car on it's side. God Bless Ya Dave
Now your'e talking. Make sure your mill has a magnetic base and have 16 friends handy to help ya stick it to the car. Problem solved, drop the mic........
As an aircraft mechanic you get real good at getting stripped out screws out. Half a dozen a day on good day, 8 hrs of screw removal on a bad day. #10's weren't too bad, #8's more often than not just got a new nutplate rather than removing it.
I've been watching TOT for a while now-really enjoy his channel. I generally try to use engineers to gnaw on rusty or 'broken fasteners. Using a beaver would just be cruel.
I think chiggers would do you better. You don't have to clean up after them since they're invisible and anyone who's been bitten by one knows their strength; that they make ant bites feel like a belly rub from Paula Deen.
You are absolutely correct. I actually have a container of them somewhere, but everytime I open the container, it looks empty, so I can't be sure which container is the full one.
Thanks Joe. Great tip. I like the washer saving idea, i'm gonna do that. Also good to note that this drilling the head off technique is one of the best for removing rivets without damage. A center punch and drill it off. I cringe when i see guys pull out zip discs.
I must remember the Gopher reference when customer's bring their motorcycles in after attempting to drill out a seized fastener themselves. It'll go nicely with my usual comment of; "Next time you try drilling, take the blindfold off!".
The first thing I ask when someone asks if I remove broken bolts, is, 'Has anyone attempted to remove it already'? I know exactly what you are talking about.
Greetings again, - Oh Joe - you're a Hooligan........ ;-) Just fell over this from the sidebar - and yours + the subject are ALWAYS worthy of time to watch & LEARN. Crikey! where did I go wrong ? Yes Dad! I know about grinding off or burning off or drilling out the heads of INSET Skt-head bolts B U T the frustration is with Dowels holding the parts together and corrosion holding bolt thread ( aftermarket repairs often just use Screw ( wotz e difrunz? - Doh!! ) so that the threads clog up with corrosion.... and in an awkward place where the pillar drill / mill doesn't get access. Heat is also not an option. WHO Builds these things? Probably the same generation who build software for which the only repair is to "Upgrade". - but WE have to do the repairs.... THanks for the learning revision / re-inforcement... without a LH Drill bit. :-)
That is a great way for a slipped on screwed down part like you showed, but what if the part itself is threaded? Any different extraction methods for that? If so I'd love to see your take on it. I've seen a lot of the methods used and a lot of the time they result in cussing and a scrapped part or wallered out hole in the part, resulting trying to re-thread it.
If nobody has messed with it and its not buried in rust, try a left hand drill. Sometimes the reverse helix on the drill will grab the stud and walk it out. Just be fast enough to raise the handle at the same rate or risk blowing up the drill.
That's a pretty cool trick, but you'd need to make sure the material being held down can withstand the giant hole that the chamfer mill leaves behind. Could you just chamfer the marred hole a little bit (only just past the OD of the thread) as a centering surface, and then use a 90* mill to drill down until it's free and then re-tap the hole at the smaller (relative to your chamfer OD), end-mill diamater? This would avoid leaving an excessive chamfer (hide the evidence!!!). Just a thought, enjoyed the video as usual Joe, I look forward to the updates.
Hey Chubbza5. If you do this correctly, the drill should be inline with the through hole in the upper part. If you are lucky enough to line it up that way, the drill that takes the head off only touches the screw and won't damage the countersink. If the drill does hit the countersink, the exposed threaded stud keeps the upper part from spinning. Its a pretty safe way to go.
Get an expert TIG welder and have him weld a handle to the broken tap. xD Or easier, mount it on a mill, spin counter-clockwise and hope the friction can roll it out. Something like that. There's no easy "cure-all" solution.
Pick a carbide 4 flute endmill just slightly larger than the root diameter of the tap. Set it up in a very rigid setup ( hopefully on a mill ) and feed the table up about .005 at a time. Clear the broken parts of the tap as they form or they may blow up the endmill and then your really in trouble.
We used to make punch rings for the machines that served the business form industry. These rings had a lot of 8-32 screws around the periphery. When a tap broke, usually in the hole, we would sometimes have to send the ring out to have the tap removed by EDM machining. It was cheaper than remaking the part.
Your channel is great, your content is very educational. My concern is with using compressed air for blowing metal chips. What is the pressure you use. Seems like a chip brush could be used most of the time. Other than that keep your channel going Thanks
Air is fine to use, just don't blow between moving table parts or around the DRO pickup and you won't have any problems. My air is at 130 PSI, but the guns are much lower depending on how much you squeeze.
Its a bit like drilling the head off a pop rivet although i have found some cap screws have a real hard spot right in the bottom of the hex , unbrako comes to mind in this respect so i usually use a carbide drill or endmiill. My ribs are still sore from laughing after watching this old tony 's last video !
Plunge an end mill down in the hole to remove the center of the tap. Remove the tap fragments often as not to explode your end mill. This is a good topic for a video.
If you can get on location, you can use a 5/32 end mill. Use carbide, 4 flute and feed by raising the table. Blow out the hole often and dig out any left over broken tap as you go. be patient.
Great tip man! What would be the best approach on a 10mm bolt with pretty severely frozen/corroded threads? Any thoughts? Ps. Love your channel! Been learning tons from you. Thanks!
I literally just checked these messages. KANO corp makes a product called Kroil. If you can find it, buy some and spray the bolt. let it soak in and try to remove it slowly if the drive feature is intact. Sometimes, a little move backwards, then a little move forwards does the trick. rust l;ikes to roll up. If you don't let it, it reduces the resistance.
On one of the forums out there the people talk about using ATF and Acetone mixed 50-50 for a penetrant for rusted/stubborn threads or parts. Better than Kroil apparently. (ATF = Automatic Transmission Fluid)
Not discounting the advice, but I have yet to find a penetrant that works better than Kroil. I work as a millwright in central Iowa. When we had a large flood come through in 2008, I was working at a power plant for 13 months working to get them back up and running. This power house has been in service for close to 60 years. Only had one nut that didn't want to come off with Kroil. Broke two 1" drive breaker bars on that nut, one was an SK. That one it sheared the drive off. But that was with a 6' linear extension and a 3/4 ton chain come a long. But this was on a boiler feed pump that has had never been removed since being put into service. Just kept getting rebuilt in place. Ended up having to torch the nut off, but had to save the studs. Nice part is when they get that rusty, the rust will act as an insulator of sorts, and if you have a steady hand, the nut can be torched off without touching the threads on the stud.
Hello Joe, I, and everyone I knew and dealt with, always referred to both the screw and hole as countersunk (Csk) for as long as I remember. Flat head screw/bolt was a normal fastener as apposed to roundhead, domehead and a few others. We are, however, divided by a 'common' language 🤗🤔 The US has descriptions that differ from ours as in a water tap, you refer as a faucet, derived from the French fausser denoting a bung for the vent hole in a cask. Remember that first Europe/USA joint Mars landing that crashed due to a misunderstanding with dimensions, with Europe being Metric and US Imperial and nobody either checked and/or made that point very prominent on drawings. Interesting times.
Geoff, thanks for the follow up. I have learned many subtle title difference from my viewers and try to choose my words carefully. I'll file this away under the UK tab and be more careful.
Joe, No need to be careful as our different interpretations make it so interesting. Just continue with your 'American' English and I'll sort out what you mean 😉😀 I'm finalising installing independent power feed to the X-table on my Marlow mill having fitted a VFD main drive. The mill did come with a separate motor but it was disconnected by previous owner and the wiring was a dogs breakfast. Using one of those ubiquitous Chinese 12v DC motors. Now it's heaven selecting the correct speed
I have always known that type of screw as a counter sunk allen or hex socket screw and if someone asked me for a flat head then they would be referring to the type of drive because the flat head is also known as a slot head for a plain screw driver.
Some of the most difficult flathead screw removal I've run across is on concrete polishing machines. The unfortunate mixture of water, diamond particles and concrete slurry migrates all the way to the bottom of the hole. The hex socket becomes filled as well, so you can't put a wrench in it, and if you try and drill it, that shit will ruin your bit in about two seconds. Even if you manage to drill the head off, the threaded portion will still be stuck like chuck. Keep in mind, that these screws attach the grinding platens to a machine that you cannot put up on your knee mill or Bridgeport. What to do? Go Medieval! Use a blue-nose wrench (oxy-fuel torch) and heat the head of the fastener 'til it's dull red. By this time, the slurry will have been ablated from the socket, and the screw will have grown in length. Soon as the screw returns to normal color, hit it with your air impact. Most times the screw backs out amid sparks, smoke and a satisfying squeal.
Once you get past machine shop 101, you just might. Can you imagine my reply? I don't see any situation, btw, that I might need your counsel, in my lifetime. You are my middle school shop teacher. You pick out 'projects' that almost never happen in the real world in order to demonstrate your 'expertise'.
I don't usually reply to guys like you, I just delete your comments. But I had a good nights sleep and figured I'd make an exception for yours. I went to your page to get a feel for who you are and maybe learn something about machining, but to my surprise (actually not), ZERO subscribers and no machining videos. Posted , liked, saved....none. Just music, and only 5 of those. That's not a bad thing, I like music. Also my reply to your initial remark was sincere and light. Nothing about it was personal or judgmental. Having absolutely no knowledge about a persons experience or skill set, the comments I leave are usually fairly neutral and grateful. Not sure what about my reply made you feel the need to attack, but I'll be the bigger man here and let it slide. After gaining the trust of over 14,000 subscribers, I just choose not to let ya fire me up. I've learned that quite well from many comments from guys just like you. Thanks for that. I plan to leave this comment posted for a while before I block your access to my channel and delete your remarks, but I wanted you to read this first. By the way........ thanks for watching.
Some guy comes along and calls out your bullshit, so you block him. Brilliant! If you lived to be a hundred years old, I doubt you'd ever teach me a Goddam thing. BTW, your mill still sounds like shit. You must have used your vast knowledge in rebuilding it. It's sad that 14000 people think you know your shit. You don't. You're right; I don't do machining vids. That's because I don't consider myself to be God's gift to the world. Fuck off, Joe! I won't bother you again.
Hey Joe, I've used this trick when changing disc brake rotors. Many times the head on that little counter sunk philips head screw they use to hold the rotor on from the factory strips out when you're trying to remove it. Don't fool with it, just drill off the head, you don't even have to remove the rest of the screw, just put your new rotor on and you're done.
Hi Joe, Something else to collect, as if my shop isn't cluttered enough now... There are as many ways to extract a screw as there are stuck screws, most of the times we win... ;) Cheers, Pierre
You rock, Joe! I learn from all the excellent people who show their tips here on youtube, and yes, it really helps me do what I'm doing...where machining is an enabler on the way to my other goals. I find the fellowship of good machinists here on the tube amazing and pleasing - it's a big and positive change from the old days where it seemed to all be trade secrets held close, and I'm grateful it is how it is now. Hopefully y'all can get together and do more fun stuff like some of what I've seen lately from ToT and the rest, that would be awesome as everyone has a different approach and it helps us learn from all of them to see things through different eyes.
Thank you Joe, always a pleasure to see a genius in action; and add to that the production of a somewhat unique washer. Thank you for your time and intellect.
Hello Joe, Now if the frozen fasteners will avail themselves to being mobile it will be a perfect world! Why am I always working in the bilge of a boat or under a car where they are seized up? Thanks for the video. I often try the left handed drill bit trick for the easy solution. Sometimes it works! Lol! Referring back to your parting off video: I have trouble with my HSS blades (both 'T' and tapered) backing out under pressure especially toward the end of the cut. I use the 'B' style block with a wedge on an 8mm thread (1/2 left and half right) and 1mm tpi. I made a tool center gauge (thanks for that) so I am dead center, the tool is honed sharp, lots of cutting oil and the stud is tightened extra tight. I have even taken it apart and roughed up the wedge so it could get a grip, I also ground a slight groove in the bottom of the block because one blade had kicked out and I thought perhaps the T was making it unstable at the bottom. No luck. I will do a few cuts and six out of ten will start backing off as I get to the center. There is no nub when completed so I know my height is right. Are these wedge type just faulty in design? If so can you think of any improvements I could machine into them to help them work properly? I am scratching my head. I have all the checks done on the preflight and I am still augering in. I most often experience the blades sliding back in the holder under pressure but that one blew it completely (undamaged) out of the toolholder while trying to complete the cut! That was an adrenalin rush. Maybe I should switch to the insert style? I do like the depth I can theoretically achieve with the HSS blade but maybe it just isn't an efficient way to go about the cut. Thanks for your videos and I am glad your mill is back among the purring. Take care. Doug
Is it possible that your parting blade is too short ( vertically )and therefor the wedge is not applying the pressure it was designed to apply. Look to see if the wedge is towards the rear of its intended cutout. It may be as simple as putting a shim under the blade of just buying the next size up.
Hello Joe, No the holder is designed for 11/32 blades and has a range of motion that gives it more room to clamp. I thought I might be bottoming out on the left hand portion of the stud against the toolholder with the wedge not tight on the blade. Tried different positions with no luck. Seems very tight for that thread (8mm) but it still pushes it back through the wedge. Used several different blades. I haven't tried a copper shim. That will be next. I have tried roughing the blade to wedge surface to see if that would help. No luck. It is a simple design that one would think is fool proof. I think the turnbuckle style double thread was a bit of over complication but it still should work. I am not overly agressive with the feed, use lots of oil and turn slow. The puzzling part is that it does well for half a cut. It would seem any heat would swell it tighter in the holder. I have an insert style on order as well as a new one of the same style. I will see if there is a difference. Makes no kind of sense to me. Thanks for the help. Doug
And I thought I was weird for saving things like that. Well, ya never can tell. Problem: How to find the oddball scraps I always put away so they can be easily found. Whatd'ya even call 'em...Screw Heads? No. They keep those in DC. Must be a better name.
I grew up thinking this' was the ONLY way! The challenge is removing the screw or bolt that has snapped off flush with the threaded hole AND you can't get the part on your mill - kinda like a head bolt flush with the block. For that I use a three hole template where the holes are an exact bolt pattern match. Two holes are thru bolted for alignment and the third hole has enough stock for aligning my center drill. It's not cheaper for me to 'shop it out'.
I had a 283 with a bolt broke off on the end of the head that was for the alternator bracket it was like that when I bought the truck. When I rebuilt the engine I swapped sides with the heads, end of problem.
Love the idea for using the head as a washer. That would allow you to have the nice big cap screw head to turn in a countersunk hole. Great vid as always.
Another great video young man! A good measure of youth is the ability to remember things and you are obviously good at remembering stuff young man. Now, what brought me here and why?
Great channel. Keep up the good work. SPread our knowledge before we pass.... Idea for you: A video on how you funded your patents and the decision making process in going for a patent.
Awesome vid Joe! .EASY AND SAFE way to remove stubborn screw / bolts with the milling machine!!!👍 Sometimes I use LH drills, but mostly I use those on hand drill (when I can't use my mill) centerdrill is my choice when going after small screw heads..I found they are more stable and accurate during drilling ..thx
ed matthews did you ever tried it? it looks like they will snap the moment they will come in contact with the broken tap. I once used a carbide end mill a bit smaller then the tap hole but it took 2 of those and it was slower then a snail.
ophirb25 I have done a few times. it has to be in one piece, it won't work if it's split. also tig welding works. melt a small piece of filler to the top of the tap, let it cool for a few seconds, repeat till there is enough material protruding from the hole to get a vise grip on. work it back and forth and add tapping fluid while working it.
That does work on occasion, but you have to be aware enough to back off the quill pressure at the moment the screw starts rising or you risk blowing up the drill.
"Yes, snot-eating Son of Mine, Maker of Fart Jokes, Heir to All the Junk in the Garage?" This Old Tony is my favorite for all the reasons you mentioned.
Figure out the center web size of the tap and plunge a slightly larger carbide end mill carefully down the center. Clear the tap fragments as you go deeper.
You make great videos too Bro. Great info and skill. Even the cnc stuff, which is about as foreign too me as veenerstroodle...I'm work'n on my first vid, where I made a set of bronze halfnuts for my 70 year old South Bend. Should be out soon, when I figure out the movie making thing... Keep up the good work, YOU got my respect.
