I love how they're having an argument but not to each other, both explaining their views to JD. And the fact that they're both making good points illustrates the real quality of the writing. I always forget how good Scrubs is at points.
He really can't. Ken Jenkins can though, I think, but looks like he's holding back. McGinley can, but I'd say that Jenkins probably is the better in real life. Now I have to google it...
From a philosophical standpoint probably the best episode. I love how Cox and Kelso both try to influence J.D. over a competitive sports game. Especially since both are right. Everything they say is true.
@@JacktheRah tbf Celso frequently knew about ways they skirted and outright broke the rules, i.e their case of using a recently dead patients insurance to pay someone elses medical bills. He just knew that if the hospital didn't make money then he woudld be replaced with someone far wore and money hungry than himself. Celso was a necessary evil who still did a good job
@@fairystail1 Agreed in one episode a friend of Kelso's had no insurance and when it didn't happen he asked 'why didn't you do what you usually do? You know, fudge the insurance paperwork whilst I pretend look the other way?' They didn't as Kelso had earlier made a threat to fire people whk didn't follow the rules. After Kelso relented they fudged the paperwork and his friend got the treatmemt.
@@shakesfirst2443 no it's not. It's a service. Quality and advancements medical fields come from these business types systems. Australia system is stagnets, feeds off it's citizens, and relies heavily on other systems to better itself.
Cox is much much better than house. Cox cares about his patients, even though he has his issues (alcohol addiction) he tries to be his best self when at the hospital. He respects his subordinates, and has real friends he cares for, and he definitely respects the nursing staff and the vital role they play in patient care care. House is just a drug addict with superiority complex, who resists all help his friends try to give him, and cares more about the science of medicine than his patients.
@@notpinhead3514 a doctor who cares only about the science of medicine should be working in a lab, not in a hospital. A doctor like house would be fired within a week in the real world.
@@Elstielzchen I agree with the OP. Kelso, hell Scrubs in general, rarely called low-level doctors by name (remember Slagathor, Turkelton, etc.) JD sticking to his guns and not being completely spineless like Stedman earned Kelso's respect, and thus gets referred to by his earned title. Which, in my opinion, is the reason Stedman (notice Kelso didn't refer to him as Dr. 0:37 ) is in this episode and rarely seen again. He was there to represent the kiss ass path of JD's choice.
In my opinion, JD won that game. Sure, not in actual points but he hit Steadman in the face twice and got away with it and that is just about as winning as you can get. Btw, whatever happened to Steadman? He just kinda disappeared in the later seasons with no explanation given. Also, I love JD's cocky walk at 2:26.
He was just a catalyst for the whole Cox vs Kelso thing. After JD made up his mind, he was no longer needed. The closest you can probably get to him after this is Ted, although Ted secretly hates him.
Yeah, MetroidJunkie is right. Steadman was only introduced as Kelso's lapdog but he was phased out when Ted started filling that role of lapdog/punching bag. Besides, we all agree Ted was way funnier.
Looking back, it definitely feels like they folded Stedman’s role/character in this episode into Ted. If this wasn’t early Scrubs, he definitely would’ve been there on the course.
To be fair, both Cox and Kelso are right in their own way. Cox is an idealists who tells it as it SHOULD be. Kelso is a pragmatist who tells it as it MUST be.
Hijacking the comment two years later to say: Dr Cox slowly learns, as Chief of Medicine, that you can't run a hospital on ideals alone. He still has his good person vibes throughout it, but he becomes more practical.
@@cameronstrouth7614 Ultimately Kelso must PRETEND to be like that, but in future episodes(Season 6 Episode 13) he admits he knows how the doctors uses recently dead people's health-insurances infos(or whatever that stuff is, not US-citizen so i don't know how it works) to cure those patients who don't have said health-insurance. Kelso is an idealist who was forced to deal with the reality of Health in the US: it's a business. SO he pretends/ignores when the other doctors act "behind him"(more like he is secretly supporting them by feigning ignorance) as a...way to keep faith to his old idealisms of saving people. He keeps the hospital running so that the doctors can save the patients, even through shady methods(like the insurance thing)
@@derokdeathaxe6984 in all actuality alot of hospitals in the us have a charity clause/payment plan deal. Where if you make up to 3 times the poverty line they will write off up to 100% of your bill.
@Cameron Strouth you most certainly could run a hospital the way Cox would like to, it's just the greedy government wouldn't allow you to. Hospitals shouldn't be businesses
He's apparently a big John Wayne fan, and he intentionally played Dr. Cox as a John Wayne-type guy, a brash, confident alpha male. Which was a perfect contrast to JD's insecure beta male lead.
@@Blacksoul444 they are terms to define concepts, in summary: words. You don't have to believe in them to use them, for example, people often use the word race or racial when talking about ethnicity when there are no different human races. You understood what he meant.
@@Blacksoul444 How would I misunderstand you? You were pretty clear. Are you saying that there are more archetypes than just alpha and beta? There are but they fit those the definition of those two. Are you saying that the words themselves don't apply in the world? They don't but you don't have to believe they do to use them, specially when talking about t.v. tropes. You can try to explain your point if I'm not getting it you know.
@@Delta-ei7im Do you save 100/100 people but then have 50% chance of saving the next 100 or do you save 80/100 people but have 100% chance to save the next 80?
Wookie Cookie exactly, this is what I don’t understand about how Americans defend their health system so much. Switch to a universal health care system. Money comes out of taxes automatically, and everyone is covered, not just those who can afford it. I can’t understand how so many Americans just shrug their shoulders at so many people down there getting turned away when they need medical help. Whenever you get old, the health insurance companies can pull coverage, or if your finances don’t look up to par. I’ll never forget the documentary ‘Sicko’ when it shows this guy who had his fingers cut off, and the hospital would only reattach 1 or 2 because he couldn’t afford more than that. What a fucked up and inhumane system you have down there. I’m also a conservative, a fan of capitalism and getting ahead, but when it comes to essential services such as police, postal service, and health care, socialism is necessary. The strange thing about America is 50% of the population is 100% against socialism, the other 50% wants a completely socialist country. A mix of both capitalism and socialism is what works the best, but due to the highly polarized nature of America, this seems impossible to achieve.
Actually, this is VERY accurate portray of real life (I'm being genuine here). When your boss (or your client) invites you to golf, you pretty much have to go, assuming your job is white collared job, and you are interested in working up the hierarchy. And you better be good enough that you don't slow down the game. Lots of business talk (both important ones and unimportant ones) happens in the golf games.
@@jhwheuer No, it's very prevalent in Asia countries too. Actually, it's worse in Asian countries (China, Japan, and Korea at least). I don't know about Europe.
@@jhwheuer in Japan, there is the legend of The Average Salary Man. The Average Salary Man works 6:00-19:00 5 days a week, never calls in sick, doesn't ask for holiday leave and is punctual for everything. Every week his boss invites him to come out drinking with them and some other colleagues. If the salary man goes, he has to stay up until the early hours of the morning drinking only to go into work early the next day. If he doesn't go, he falls out of favour with his employer and risks his financial stability. Such is the life of The Average Salary Man, an eternal dilemma between risking his physical and mental health or the respect of his employer.
@Makkitotosimew Slapstick is a dangerous tool: use not enough and it's out of place, use it too much and it becomes incredibly annoying. The right ammount of slpastick is very rarely found.
"I hate Robert Kelso. I hate his family; I hate his friends; I hate the guy who cleans his vaguely racist little lawn jockey." How... how did I miss that Kelso has a lawn jockey??
Shame JD lost all semblance of balls he had after the first season, and instead became a manchild that only stood up to Cox when he hurt his fee-fees. This JD right here was still capable of animosity and doubt, and of course, was less overtly flamboyant.
Some people just naturally have a high hairline at their temples. He's been like that for decades now. One of my high school friends, too. Very short hair, he looks like he's balding, but a month later it looks normal.
It's Firefly dead. Complete with a follow-on that attempted to capture the spirit, but didn't quite live up to the real deal. And did some pretty terrible character assassination. Dead and buried. Now, it only truly lives on in the hearts of the fans.
This is true on so many levels typically you have stakeholders and sometimes they have competing interests which you have to take into consideration when make decisions
Let's be real for a minute. You either play because you know what you're doing, or you play for that one sweet shot you play, straight down the fairway every other hole. There is no middle ground
and although kelso makes great point, cox is the only one that actually sticks to his word, kelso is seen multiple times in the series spending the hospitals money selfishly, he presents himself as a realist but he truly is greedy
LOL it’s weird in the early episodes JD was doing guy stuff like playing golf and talking about sports but then in the later episodes they had him be less “masculine” (for lack of a better term)
@@Plague_Potato shut up fool, you know what I meant. Are you really going to pretend that they didn’t ramp up JD having “girly” tendencies in later seasons?
Loved the show, but keep this in mind: everyone on the show is playing a healthcare specialist, and they all believe, without exception, that everyone, that's right, everyone is sick in some way and needs them. The show offers this vision from a doctor's or nurse's perspective by always ending on a sad note. No matter who you are, and what high level of lifetime enjoyment you may have, it is a brief respite from the eventual sickness and death you will experience sooner or later. They make no bones about (pun intended) showing every high note and happiness as having an equally disappointing low note and therefore, reason to be ultimately melancholy.
I'm guessing golf course = Braemar CC in Tarzana. Formerly Deauville CC where I played many a round in years past. Club pro at the time was former Masters champion, Ralph Guldahl.
This oretty muxh sums up the key differences between Kelso (while he was chief of medicine of Sacred Heart) and Cox for the whole series anyway, well til the last two seasons anyway.
Imagine if you lived in a country where you didn't even have to have this discussion. Imagine being able to go into a hospital, have a massive invasive surgery, and pay close to nothing. Imagine not going bankrupt because your wife had a heart attack.
Imagine reducing your doctor's wages & forcing everyone to wait till their broken bones set in place before surgery. Sure, patients expiring before operating will eliminate the workload & expenses, but it would also turn healthcare into one more beauracracy.
Except as Kelso says later, you NEED both. its why Dr Cox annoys him so much but he keeps associating with him so much. its a big hospital he could just work around him.
@@TheSimmr001 Yeah they do make this clear over time. Kelso calls on Cox from time to time outright break the rules, actually being surprised when Cox at one point almost does cite the rules. Cox also takes Kelso's job for a while and draw's much the same conclusions he does - but there is one subtle difference. If you were tally up their "saviour" game I'm pretty sure they'd both be under par, but Cox'd take the win by a margin. The reason being that Cox puts in a lot more than Kelso does. There's an argument to be made that in an administrative capacity you SHOULD keep some distance and maintain some healthy sanity, but Cox does take it on the chin, in exchange for being a fierce wreck many times in the show, yet showing up every single day and putting in more time than he ever should. He puts in more time than Kelso. You also have to factor in that Cox puts his time into his residents whipping them into shape. Kelso may administrate (and effectively) but it's those residents who go beyond the show. Beyond Kelso's time. Men on the ground win wars. Not knocking Kelso though, great character. Important message.
Why would a chief of medicine ever invite an intern to play golf though, like, JD seemed competent enough but was he really that remarkable to warrant personal grooming?
Well 2 reasons. 1. Plot convenience to build character and define one of the constant struggles on the show. Without this episode clearly stating why both Kelso and Cox are right in their vision it might have made the audience hate Kelso a lot more for his antagonistic role. 2. Because from what we've seen both Kelso and Cox admire JD (even if he's woefully inexperienced at that moment) and want him to succeed. From his year of interns there are 2 people who stand out most, Elliot and JD. And from those two both Kelso and Cox saw the relatively blank slate potential in JD to get an ally to their vision of the hospital while Elliot would be less open to such developments. So yeah, JD was inexperienced, but competent and good hearted enough that personal grooming could help.
@@DyslecticAttack #1 makes perfect sense, but although JD was relatively talented I don't think he was so remarkable to justify personal attention from the chief of medicine, surely dozens if not hundreds of talented interns (perhaps even more so) have come through... though I guess I'm digging too deep for a tv show ;D
The biggest problem with this scene is that it's so divisive. I imagine they were trying to show, comically, how real politics are these days. Yes, hospitals need paying customers to keep supplying services. And, yes we shouldn't let injured people only get treated if they have money. But, you can do both, and many hospitals do both. I work at a hospital and we have a certain amount of money that we know will never, ever be paid for service. And, it's not just in the E.R. department where we are required to treat. Train-wreck patients wind up in hospital beds for weeks, or even month, for something that could have been handled as an outpatient earlier. I've worked in the healthcare industry for decades, and I've done a 180 turn in that I now think that universal healthcare is the right thing to do. This is not just morally correct. It's also cheaper. People will either see a primary care provider once every year for preventive medicine. Or, they will present to the ER with much bigger problems. I see it everyday. For example, It is so much cheaper to treat hypertension than stroke, MIs, renal dysfunction, blindness, etc.... Also, maintaining control of Diabetes is so much cheaper than treating the complications of poorly controlled Diabetes. And, you would not believe how many patients find out they are diabetic in the ER years after their bodies gave up maintaining the proper glucose levels. For some reason I do not understand, Americans are okay with socialized: Armed Forces; infrastructure for roads, train travel and air travel; education; fire departments; police; legal systems, etc......while being opposed to socialized medicine. It really makes no sense as we do not live in a purely capitalism society.
I'm an outsider here, I'm Canadian, but genuinely, I hope the U.S. gets medicare for all or some version of single payer. Are they perfect? No, but they work, and they don't leave people afraid to seek preventative care and crippled with an insurmountable debt load after something catches up with them when it's too late. It breaks my heart. I'd vote for Bernie if I could. Warren looked promising in the beginning but she keeps hedging on healthcare. Whatever happens in the future I hope scenes like this seem antiquated instead of still relevant one day. I'm just a random hoser though, and my opinion doesn't count for much.
@olehomer1988 Sanders was going way too far left. Adding reigning on healthcare costs will require Federal intervention. And, the overall cost over Americans lifetime will be less because prevention is far cheaper than treatment.
He’s just ignorant about a lot of sports stuff but he still knows of them or watches. Remember when him and Truk tried to go see Jordan but they both brought sandwiches
I never get COX, he works at a private hospital, so nothing he says really matters, if he wanted to cure people with no money he should work at a free clinic or something
It's about what's best for the both, the hospital is a business yes, but the patients are its assets. Without patients, the hospital has no assets, without assets the hospital is broke.
Patients with no money are a detriment, not a benefit. Help them when you can, but not when it means diverting resources, attention and manpower away from several other patients. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
