31:20 you can "gen 1 miss" the critical hit on slash, allowing you to not get the crit. The slash against magneton did not crit and therefore the +6 Atk boosts were applied, allowing you to get the KO on Magneton :P. This is a 1/256 chance.
I noticed that, but didn't know there was a CRIT equivalent to the gen 1 miss, so that's me learning something new about gen 1 today, which doesn't happen very often any more!
@@bigpoggers6507 Indeed. Gen 1 is so broken that: 1. You can get guaranteed critical hits very easily. 2. They are not actually gauranteed, but for a 1/256 chance. 3. It is easily possible for a crit to deal less damage than a normal hit. Awesome gen 1 mechanics in a nutshell.
Scyther would easily win in gen 2. I always grab one and with wing attack, fury cutter, swords dance, slash/quick attack, you can mow through the whole pokemon league.
@@grammysworld5449 More like he chose to use a bad move that was weaker than Pinser's starting move rather than more powerful moves which made him waste a lot of extra time that would never be made up. He had Rest which meant the recoil damage from Take Down or Double Edge wouldn't matter. So a moveset of either of those two, with rest, Wing Attack for Bruno which would be the ONLY time in the Elite 4 that it would be stronger than Double Edge and would be usable against Agatha's ghost type along with Swords Dance would have been better than trying to spam a move that after STAB bonus was STILL weaker than Pinser's starting move. I don't expect perfection, but actual consideration to the moves being used would be nice. Since he all but stopped using Slash because he didn't want to lose the Swords Dance bonus should have been an indication that the move did not fit his strategy any longer and should have been replaced with something he could use instead.
I like your newer style of comparing 2 pokemon against each other, something a little different from other channels. Can't wait for the next one, any hints?
By the end of the run, I was thinking Hyper Beam could have helped Scyther a lot In Generation 1 it doesn't require a recharge turn if it knocks out the opponent, combined with Swords Dance and that can be a really powerful alternative to the always critting Slash But I realize two issues: 1. Hyper Beam only has 5 PP, and that may not be enough for some battles, plus I don't know how many Ether/Elixirs are easy to get through the run 2. The more problematic issue, Hyper Beam can only be obtained by paying coins at the game corner, sure you can buy coins, but that would take a lot of time so unfortunately I don't think it's worth it for a fast run, but I think it's a good strategy otherwise
Yes. In Gen 1, Psychic was OP thanks to them having effectively no Weaknesses. And, Bug type offensively sucked so badly. They did not get a Bug Move back then. And, most of the Bug Moves went to Weak Bug types.
Really liking these race comparison videos, shows the strengths and flaws of Pokemon in a whole new way. Would love to see a race between Vileplume and Bellossom in Gen 2 some day.
Wonderful to see Bug types get so much love and attention on your channel. This was an interesting and entertaining spin on your solo challenges and I particularly love how you dedicated segments to the exploding Geodude Hiker (9:04 + 10:46).
Really like this vs format. Ever since other youtubers confirmed in their challenge videos that you can beat these games with a magikarp or a weedle I've stopped finding the "Can I beat Pokemon with ___" type videos interesting, cos the answer will always be yes. I was fully expecting Scyther to nail this one, really jumped up a notch at the Elite Four.
It'll be omanyte/omastar. Both have bad speed compared to the top tier and oma's special is almost 50 better than kabuto/ps. Plus badge boost with withdraw horn attack vs absorb till lvl 35 or celadon TM's
Loved the video, and it is a really cool idea! One thing I noticed though, since you have such high attack power, and swords dance, you could have taught hyper beam, and it would be an instant win for either, because in gen 1, if you get a KO, there isn't any cool down with it, so Blaine wouldn't be an issue.
These race runs are a really cool idea! It’s be a lot of fun to do this with other Pokémon that match. Nidoking vs Nidoqueen, Zangoose vs Seviper, or all 3 starters in a generation could all be very fun!
I'm hoping Pinsir wins! With any luck, the lower crit chance he has will allow Swords Dance to really shine. That, and twelve year old me wants to know that my Pinsir is better than my brother's stupid Scyther. Just my luck that my brother gets the version with a Pokemon based on my favorite bug, and I got a terrifying whatever the hell that is...
I remember being so confused when I realized that gen 1 crits can sometimes deal LESS damage and of course the 1/256. But I didn't know about badge boost back then either... ah those were simpler times.
Have you seen JRose 11's 'minimum battles' run in Pokémon Yellow? He chooses to use Scyther over Pinsir in it, mainly because of the faster level up group. Interesting to see the type of challenge really changes which Pokémon is more useful than the other. Anyway, these challenge races are awesome! Thanks!
@@bidoof9167 Well I've seen people heavily preferring Heracross over it and not caring much about Pinsir just because it doesn't get STAB on fighting moves.
@@actofcawd209Well, it's more than just not having STAB on fighting moves. Pinsir also doesn't have megahorn. X-Scizzor is its best alternative, but the extra 50% damage probably more than makes up for the 15% miss chance, and a bit worse than that in gen 2/3 where it was relying on Hidden Power for a decent bug type STAB.
Very interesting to see. I'll admit that I spent most of the time hoping Scyther would win as I prefer him and Scizor over the other bug pokemon, but the results make sense in retrospec. I'll still stand in my corner and stand by all the tactical advantages I believe Scyther has over Pinser, but all of that is more for later generations and on a full team where there are other pokemon to cover your weaknesses (so that you don't have say that 4x weakness to rock risking a one-hit blackout)
30:50 The reason the 2nd hit usually seems to deal more damage: - If you high-rolled your first hit, the pokemon went down, no potion was used and you don't remember the event. - If you low-rolled your first hit, the pokemon survives, a potion is used and you get another roll. Since you are comparing to your recent low-roll, the chance you deal more damage this time is high. It's simple logic really.
@Rodent's Revenge as far as I know the rng rolls a multiplier between 0.85 and 1 inclusive, based on a 1/16 roll. So all multipliers 0.85, 0.86, 0.87 .. 0.99, 1.0 are equally likely. The rounding can sometimes cause an extra value to be possible in the range of outcomes, depending on the stat boosts
That was so fun! Thank you Scott! I found this kind of challenge really fun! I'd like to propose a dual challenge between Lapras and Jynx, maybe,... But sure I would enjoy any challenge you do! Thanks a lot, bye, have a good week!
Great vs video Scott, heres a few others that could pair up fairly well for future ideas: Koffing vs Grimer (or evolved forms, or allowing them to evolve) Psyduck vs Slowpoke (or evolved forms, or allowing them to evolve) Magnemite vs voltorb (or evolved forms, or allowing them to evolve) Mr Mime vs Jynx Kangaskan vs Tauros Keep up the great work!
Good you choose the Dome Fossil in the Scyther run :D The Helix fossil ist so overmemed that it just not funny anymore. (Well for me it was never funny to begin with)
Just recently discovered your channel, I'm always really happy to see more people doing pokemon challenge runs! I especially like this race type video, because it helps you stand out from all the other channels and gives you a more solid identity in your content. I'm not a youtuber or anything, but I thought I'd give you my two cents :p Hope to see more from you!
I agree with you. It's a nice variant too because it's quite clear that the game can be beat with almost every Pokemon. (Magikarp, Caterpie can't for instance).
Loving these races!! If you wanna step into Gen 2 for these, wanna do Tauros vs Miltank? My bet's on the Moo Boo :) That or more bug babie runs. You and FJ are why they're one of my fav types now
Damn this is a really early premiere lol, anyways I'm excited for this one I've been basically binging the videos that you've put up over the last like day or two and I've really fallen in love with the way you present your runs and go about everything so I'm really excited to see how this goes I really love the starmie and cloister race
Hi Scott just got done with the video and Pinsir gang won. If I may recommend a challenge for you next time would be is the race of the three starters, Wheezing vs Arbok, Electabuzz vs magmar, and Victorbell, Vileplume.
Hey dude, you inspired me to do a sandshrew only run in leaf green without items. Just finished it today! Really fun run, though I'm not sure it's possible in RBY, I had to use rock slide and aerial ace to even stand a chance against the E4 and even then. Would be cool to see you try this. The learnset and t/m learnsets seem pretty barebones in rby ;) Keep it up! UPDATE: After researching a bit, I retract that statement, my rival had an exegcutor with giga drain which I couldn't beat in time w/o aerial ace. The rby counterparts don't have giga drain so they are less of a threat. It's certainly possible in rby ;)
Against Giovanni you should have used Swordsdance after mimicking Earthquake from Dugtrio. Would have raised all your stats, including your attack. Yes, the raise wouldn't do much for your Slash, since Slash always crits, but it would have boosted your copied Earthquake, making sure that you will one-shot all the other pokemon that are weak against it. Wouldn't have made much of a difference in terms of the time, however it would make it more consistent.
I love how in gen 2, only 1 of these awesome pokemon got any love. Then in gen 4, Pinsir was once again passed over for a new evolution, only finally getting some love with its eventual mega evolution
Pinsir was my favorite gen 1 bug type, ashame it couldn't get a stab move to utilize back then. I like these vs. type runs. I'd like to see magneton vs. electrode in the future if that is alright? My 2 favorite electric type pokemon.
Time for round 2, scizor vs pinsir in pokemon fire red or heart gold/ soul siver if your fancy. But in all seriousness thank you for posting such a fun video. Like most people I had red in gen 1 so I don't actually think I ever used a pinsir.
I'm tipping pinsir with this one. Has relatively easy access to submission eliminating one major drawback with its moveset and as sole bug type actually has fewer weaknesses then scyther
When I was a kid I found pinsir to be a very intimidating but very cool mon. It was quite strong too, I always wanted to have one but for whatever reason never got my hands on it as a kid.
This is another example of how Gen 4 and 5 is really when the game became good (for bug type users). Scyther wasn’t “that great” until then. By the time GEN 4 and 5 came out they had improved the bug and flying types significantly. Jolly Scyther with technician ability, Arial Ace, Bug Bite, (and then two legal moves that works for whatever you’re trying to go for or) if you’re on an emulator just give him storm throw (5th gen only, sadly. Maybe double kick if you’re playing 4th Gen) and bonemerang. Those are great type coverage for his weaknesses and work well with technician. They also help against anybody with the sturdy ability. His hold item should obviously be an eviolite, but if your worried about bonemerange’s accuracy you could give him a wide lens instead. He’s also another example of the vast list of Pokémon who would benefit from the huge power ability, but technician is such a good ability it’s almost not worth changing. MoldBreaker on the right Pokémon is dangerous. Pinsir’s usefulness when fighting rock types with only having a 2x weakness as opposed to 4x is nice. Give him earthquake and everyone with levitate is screwed. As long as pinsir has rock slide he’ll be safe from the rest of his weaknesses.
wow this guy is great at the game. he really has a good thought process around the game and he puts together really intelligently done videos. the data and the methodology and stuff is rigorous and we trust his results.
Love these racing challenges Scott! To see the opposite end of the spectrum, what about a speed race between Magneton and Electrode Gen 1? Which is more brutal? Magnemite/Magneton all time fav of mine. Keep up great work!
31:30 The reason Slash one hit the Magneton is because it did not get a crit, so it took advantage of the Swords Dance. Slash not critting is super rare.
As silly as that seems, I wonder whether teaching Scyther Cut after Agatha would've been a good move. It's 50 attack, 15 more than Gen 1 Wing Attack 35, and does not get increased crit chance either Either way, thank you for the video, this was a good watch :)
@@DonYagamoth no worries champ, i know it must've seemed like torture at the time but that 100% Mana speedrun you did has been one of my most watched yt playlists ever, 100% runs of any game are enormously relaxing and helpful to get to sleep so thank you ❤
Take down kills you b4 the other pokemon does. And hyper beam... well i guess he could TRY to get 5500 coins "quickly" but the move just aint worth that
@@212mochaman thanks for the answer I was curious regarding take down due to gen 1 manic if it would calculate the extra recoil damage due to being boosted
After certain badges, stat changing moves like swords dance, and even most X-items, will boost your other stats (each stat is tied to a badge requirement). For instance attack is tied to Brock so after you beat Brock, every time your stats are modified like getting hit by leer or using defense curl your attack gets raised. After you beat Brock surge and koga, a swords dance will give you +1 defense, +2 attack, +1 speed. Glitch? Or feature? Good to know either way
Just watched this and wanted to test out a strat with Scyther using Swords Dance and an attacking move (Wing Attack is what I used). It does require a little luck and I used Double Team a little to help, but two tries starting at level 57 I was able to get through. Lorelei just requires you get past Dewgong and Cloister before you set up. I'd love to see you give Scyther a rematch here.
Perhaps I will in the future. For now I'm really excited to give other Pokemon a go. Scyther's evolutionary line is going to get a shot at one of these races very soon!
Follow up video idea: Pinsir, Scizor, and Heracross in a 3 way battle through either FRLG or GSC Since I think they've all been hyped up as enemies/rivals