Sea Fury vs MiG-15 - How a Prop Fighter Shot Down a Jet (And Which Pilot Really Shot it Down) 

When I say that this was a rare case in which a piston engine fighter shot down a jet, I mean after WW2 as in that conflict, there were quite a few such cases.

I had a very good friend ~ who’s sadly now passed away ~ who flew the Fairey Firefly in action in Korea from the British light aircraft carrier HMS Glory, the majority of which would be ground attack work. Knowing the story of the success the Sea Fury enjoyed, I asked my friend what would by the recommended action to take if their Firefly squadron was bounced by MiG 15s. He said it wasn’t something he’d experienced, but that probably the best course of action would be to maintain formation, slow down in order to force an overshoot ~ not hard as the Firefly was not particularly sprightly ~ and then for everyone to thumb their 4 x 20mm cannon, which would have put a fairly impressive amount of explosive ordnance down range. I have a photo of him performing the last landing on one of Glory’s three tours of duty in Korea. He was then presented with, I believe, a large bottle of booze by tradition, which would have been well received. I don’t know if the supply of booze was as regular as it could have been, but at least it wasn’t as bad as that experienced by RAF pilots in Burma in WW2, where the beer ration was something along the lines of ‘One bottle of beer per-man per-week per-haps’! He did have one incident where on landing he either missed the cables or his hook broke (can’t remember which) and the Firefly went off the side of the carrier. My friend got out, but most unfortunately the guy in the observers station ~ who I believe wasn’t actually aircrew and had only gone up for the experience ~ didn’t make it out, not being familiar enough with escape procedures. I think that preyed on my friend’s mind over the years. The Korean conflict always seems to have been a bit of a neglected part of history ~ apart from the well-publicised MiG-15 v Sabre element ~ but it was really a brutal conflict and shouldn’t be forgotten, so thank-you and well done Showtime 112 for putting this one together.

Loved this! In my honest opinion, the Sea Fury is one of the most eye pleasing air frames from that time period. A beautiful fighter..

Four 20mm cannon's, looks like the Brits took a page from the Jerry's and their FW-190-A5. The US A1-A piston banger in Vietnam went head on with a Mig17 and lit that Mig right up with it's four 20mm cannons, that Mig went down in a big fireball too.

The WW2 Tempest 2 also had the Bristol Centuries engine, but the powers that be went with the Tempest 5 { Napier Sabre engine } instead. I think the Hawker Fury/sea Fury has to be one of best looking fighters ever. Good video.

There was a combat over Vietnam where two Skyraiders,took down a MIG,15 I think in a head-on attack.You might want to compile a video on that one. As always,I am impressed by your attention to detail,unbiased narrative and skilled editing,thank you. 👍🙃

Another great video about a piece of history that I did not know about !

The piston is might than the jet, if you keep the fight in the Horizontal not the Vertical, the piston fighter have more turning radius than jet.

Probables achieved by Mustangs in Korea, 8 IIRC, could well have been legit kills. MIGs could have crashed very far away from the combat site. Due their superior speed. Something like this happened in Poland Sept 1939. Bf:s reported as damaged by Polish pilots were later found crashed well over 100 km:s from combat site. THX for yet another excellent vid.

The Sea Fury, is such a beautiful aircraft, as the old saying goes, "if it looks right, it'll fly right"

Great video, as always. I'm not particularly familiar with the Korean Air War, and certainly not with the Sea Fury. An interesting aircraft. It's always nice to learn something new.

Great video on an account that I had never heard of!

Another stunning cinematic video ....had no idea the Brit Sea Fury made it to Korea...can see why you would not want to " rate fight " it in a period jet...one little mistake and it's gonna blast you from the sky. Those 20mm s are no joke. Thank you for the education .

Great racing plane.

An other excellent story about Corea war where a F4U CORSAIR shot down a MIG-15 too. There's an other case like this, in Vietnam where a pair of U.S A1 SKYRAIDER shot down a MIG-17 on 1965 with their 20 mm guns in a front fight like this video.

Excellent video. I read the story in a magazine and even built a scale model of the Sea Fury. Of course the magazine said nothing about the 1978 interview. A great story nevertheless and again, thanks for your lessons Jedi Master

Awesome video, once again! 👍🏻👏🏻💪🏻🍻🍻🙋🏼‍♂️

Didn't know there was footage of La-174. Great video as usual.

Great episode. Really enjoying your chanel, you really know your stuff. Many thanks

The Fury was no slouch.Cuba used a number of them to good effect during the Bay of pigs incident.

That’s my favorite plane! Could I ask where you got the thumbnail from just out of curiosity?

I saw the actual Sea Fury from this engagement at the Fleet Air Arm Museum in the UK. It's displayed with a Mig-15 hanging from the ceiling.

Thanks for the great reenactment of this battle, where many news articles credited Lt. Peter Carmichael with the Mig kill. I didn’t know there was actually an agreement between the 4 pilots that they wanted their flight leader to be recognised and the veil of secrecy to be lifted until the last man alive. What a cool story. Thanks man. I believe you have covered the last of prop vs jet encounters having covered the other one flown by a USMC F-4U Corsair. I enjoyed watching these re-enactments from Korean War. Just wanna ask if you would be covering the battle between USN F-9F Panthers and Russian Migs which were classified by the US for many years. That would be a cool story to cover.

Buenísimo el vídeo. Muchas gracias por tu esfuerzo en la realización del vídeo. Gran trabajo!

Thanks! I love the one where the Navy dive bomber took on the Zeros, and the one where US Phantoms took on a bunch of North Vietnam Migs for 15 minutes doing the Thatch Weave. I hope you do videos of those!

An interesting dual , Bearcat vs Fury . I would pay to watch .

Love your stuff, keep it up!!

Great video 👍

This was a good episode !!

The Sea Fury was a beautiful aircraft! Plus I learned several new things from this video!

I didnt even know sea fury's faught a war, i thought it was one of those planes that were operated but didnt see any action, like the F8F bearcat. Im glad to learn of this glory the sea fury's had

Glad you made that point at the end. A good well trained pilot in a super-prop, can very much beat a less capable pilot in a jet. Out of that same war, we got the legend of the US pilots having a 9:1 kill ratio ~ which dropped by Vietnam. That's a disturbing statistic, until you start to pick at the details. Migs contained Chinese or North Koreans, but they were sometimes accompanied by the Russian instructors. Those instructors, were under orders not to get into combat themselves, but sometimes they did. When that happened, the win : loss ratio was a lot more like 50 : 50. When the combat experienced Americans (Many of them had been Pacific theatre aces in the last war) came up against new-chum N Korean student pilots, flying unfamiliar aircraft, of course they beat them easily! You'd be a bit disappointed if they didn't. But then you had the Fighter Mafia, who said we had a 9:1 kill ratio in Korea but less than 4:1 in Vietnam ~ our aeroplanes are shit ~ our missiles are shit ~ our training is shit ~ we need the F-15s and air combat manoeuvring school, and we need it now. They didn't mention N Korean student pilots while they told that story .... Statistics tell the truth, but some animals are more equal than others. Or if you haven't read Animal Farm ~ some truth is lot closer to true than others, it's all down to how the data was gathered and presented and what 'facts' you use it to prove. Understand ~ I'm not saying American F86 pilots were less than exceptional ~ I'm saying there was a little more context to that story than you normally get told. While I'm on this subject, they also told their F-86 pilots that the Mig was a little faster because it was lighter, but it was flimsy, and a few hits would bring it down. They didn't tell the F-86 boys that Mig packed a 37mm cannon or that the Russian pilots thought it was solid like a ship, compared to the piston planes they'd flown against the Germans in WW2. Solid heavily built dependable old beast, always gets me home. That's how the Russians felt about it. Very capable of taking a few hits and still flying home.

Very interesting video about a case that I didn't know (involving of Sea fury in Corea war). Excellent as usual.

In the re-enactment, the Sea Furies have Canadian markings. The Canadian Navy flew lots of them from 1948 to 1956. I read a good very detailled book about them: Stuart E. Soward, Hands to Flying Stations: A Recollective History of Canadian Naval Aviation, Volume 1: 1945-1954 (1993). They were great planes, really the ultimate in piston-engined fighers. However, the Canadian Navy experienced a very high accident rate with lots of fatalities. Reading the book, many of the accidents were pilot error but many were mechanical failure.

Excellent graphics 🏅

Good summary. It’s nice to have the record set straight.

Excellent video! The Sea Fury remains one of the most beautiful and admired aircraft of all time. One of the most ironic things about the Mig15 is that it flew with a Soviet made copy of the Rolls Royce Nene jet engine, for some unfathomable reason the post world war two Clement Atlee Labour government naively decided to gift the Soviet union with complete Nene engines, drawings, technical specifications, tools and equipment to replicate what at that point in time was the UKs' most advanced jet engine. That gift gave the Soviet union an excellent opportunity to quickly develop and build an effective and capable swept wing fighter around that engine, a feat that the UK didn't catch up with the Soviet union with for some years. The Mig 15 went on to become a thorn in the side of western nations for many years, thanks to that ill conceived idea of gifting the Rolls Royce Nene engines and the technological advantage that they contained.

Experienced Combat Pilots made all the Difference !

I'm collecting some exact datas for 2-3 stories from the Hungarian military aviation, just somehow need to transalte it for you to English. If you are interested, kind a not well know events even in Hungary.

Thanks!

Like your reenactments .

Well, This is the case of toxic seniority I guess ;)) And thank you for one more incredible history of aviation reenactment

Excellent, Excellent

We Brits have known about this encounter for decades. The world's fastest piston fighter downing a jet fighter is something to be lauded.

Very cool story. The Sea Fury was a beautiful aircraft.

As an American I have have vast history of aircraft I can look back and love the looks BUT I do hold an old and secret love, the Spitfire, Hurricane and Sea Fury I tend to love the most...

👍

Thanks

The Sea Fury and the Bearcat are my favorite prop plane fighters....

Shooting down of a Soviet Mig 15 jet by a older prop Sea Fury... is a sign of a skilled pilot. It always man behind the machine during air combat.

The Hawker Typhoon was a handful. Sea Fury looked the goods. Interesting fighter planes.

Inexperienced badly briefed pilots not using the advantages of the Mig, airbrakes on, getting into a turning fight with a much more manouverable aircraft is only going to end one way, 4 20mm cannon will make a mess of anything regardless of aircraft type. Lucky to have seen Sea Furies at an airshow probably 20 years ago, despite all the jets for me there were the star of the show, coming down in a shallow dive they were easily the fastest prop fighter i've ever seen, awesome plane, great video

EXCELLENT JOB, this video is another probe the contribution you are doing to aviation history. THANKS .

Have or are you planning to do one on the F4U Corsair/Mig encounter also in Korea?

It was " common" in the early days of the Korean War...there were F4U Corsair and P51 Mustang vs Jet kills. My friend Urban Ben Drew killed two Me262's in Germany in 45' in a single engagement in his P-51D "Katzenjammer IV"

There would not have been a Mig 15 if Rolls Royce hadnt sent them jet engines in 1949.

Marine Capt Jess Folmar smoked two MiG 15s while on patrol in his F4U -4 Corsair in the skies over Korea in Sept of 1952. The high speed prop driven planes of that era had more range and endurance and bomb load than jets and also could out turn the jets. Add 20mm cannon fire, they could knock an early jet out of the sky if the jet pilot slowed or wasn’t paying attention to a deflection shot.

Excellent 👌 presentation by Showtime 112! Love tgat you're covering the Korean Conflict as i can inagine that there's more aerial battles, and engagement ls that are rarely discussed. Thanks fir presenting this forget history of Aviation. ♠️🎩🎯🎱🇺🇸🏁🇮🇱🇺🇦🔱🌻🌼🏵️💮🌸🏴‍☠️🏹

Pretty sure you pronounced Lieutenant the correct way the first time, in Australia at least the air force and army pronounce the rank with an 'eft' while the navy pronounces it 'oot' and I believe its an inherited tradition from the British. As far as I know the air force carried over the army tradition because the air force was established from the AFC which itself was a formation in the army prior to it becoming an independent service, despite its ranks being largely derived from navy ranks.

A monster of an engine!

It's not unheard of. The first air to air, gun kill, were a couple of AD-1 Skyraiders, mixing it up with a mig-15. Head to head, Ariel, gun battle. (8-20mm vs 2-23 mm 1-37 mm cannons!!)

There was an incident where an American Skyraider bomber shot down two MiGs. I forget the details but I believe it also happened during the Korean War.

82ND AIRBORNE Great intro...ill make a track out of it a apply it to my kit. Oh yeah...2,480 hp!! 460 mph!! YEEEEEHAW!!

Can you make video on hawker sea hawk

After the air battle between 4 x Sea Fury's and several MiG-15s the Fleet Air Arm had reports that all four Sea Fury's had fired on the MiG that was downed. In this case the kill was awarded to the flight leader, Lt Carmichael. Later it was assumed that Evans had shot down the MiG because he had expended more ammo. But as in many air combats, it was impossible to tell who's bullets caused the plane to crash, so the original decision was the correct one.

The Also Flew With The PAF (About 100 Of Them) The Irony Is That They Were Replaced By The American F-86F With 6 50 Cal Guns Where The Furies Had 4 20mm Canons

Actually many ME 262's were shot down by piston powered fighters late in the war, P41 mustangs also shot down Mig 15's as well. The jets are at a disadvantage in maneuverability compared to late model piston fighters which were at the zenith of their development.

This is not as insane as people think. A piston has the edge in the turning fight especially slow and low. Jets may try to go for pistons but have to slow down to get more aim. Especially for a MiG going 600mph. A piston that slows down to 250mph is literally like catching a fly. The Sea Fury is not better than a MiG 15. Overall a MiG would dominate the arena and would require other jets to wrestle air superiority.

The is the first time I've heard of Fireflies operating over Korea. What was an aircraft tasked with anti-shipping duties doing over dry land?

Prop planes win against jets when the jets forget to fight to there strengths.

Hoagie Carmichael is a legend. Only Eric Brown is more famous than him in the RNAS.

In a dogfight, Speed can be a disadvantage.

Sea Fury has a great plane but was it better than the hundereds of Corsair's that the Royal Navy pushed overboard in 1945?

Americans fighting in the korean war - "fuck yeah USA" When the brits do the fighting for them - "fuck yeah we're so good USA!"

If you ever want to annoy an RAF pilot ask him how many air to air kills the RAF have had since WW2 and how many the Fleet Air Arm have

As the great Manfred von Richthofen himself wisely put it: "It's not the crate, it's the man inside it."

The FAA at last. Bloody great!!

I think the Fleet Air Arm would been better off staying with the F4U Corsairs. Instead they kept employing these mixed air groups orf Seafires, Sea Furies, Fireflies and etc.

Pretty cool.. but did they really fly with d-day stripes painted on.. seems like a target

Kurt Tank can be considered the father of both aircraft. Sea fury and Mig-15

thats a bit tough on ellis

I live how pissed the old guys get when the slightest inference is made that the Sea Fury is a FW190 knock-off. 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅

The beauty was the winner

Love the Sea Furry.

They're all working from home these days. That building is empty.

Looks like a Focke Wulf 190 from the side

💪

Sometimes its the pilot and not the machine.

Given the respective maximum speeds of the Sea Fury and the MiG-15, does anyone know at what speed these aircraft battled each other? From what I get from the video, outright speed can be less important than maneuverability.

Don't forget, plenty of Me-262s were shot down by prop planes.

Those Migs had a 37mm cannon, right?

But in the skies of Korea, the Soviet aces proved their superiority by shooting down 3 times more enemy aircraft than they lost their own

US Navy F4U-4 Corsairs shot down MiG 15 in Korea.

To take the credit for somebody else's kill is dishonourable, but there is a common belief that officers have high standards of personal honour. Is it a myth? In this particular case more than one officer was involved in the deception.

no corsair?

Would the Furies really have had those invasion stripes at that time?

Energy management is the key, a swept wing jet has more to play with, but loses more in a turn fight too, specially lower to the ground in the thicker air, that was their mistake, if the 15 pilots had fought furries vertically they would have won it easily, but they didn't, cause their training was lacking...😮

I thought it was Spitfire Mk 9 that did this.

😂direct to TV....❤❤❤

Considering this is 1952, it's very likely that these Mig drivers were Russians....