SEARS SLO-SPEED SAW CONVERTER pt2  

Mr. Pete , I love your rambling . When you talk about all these different subjects you answer questions that I have but am afraid of asking because they might seem obvious . You demonstrate things that I have seen in my many years and had no idea how they worked . Keep doing what you are doing . I will keep watching . The old retired cop .

This was not a failure. As far as it is a lesson to learn, it's a success to be taken. Thank you Mr. Pete.

If we don’t try and experiment we don’t learn anything. We just hope the trying doesn’t kill us. Thank for not dying.

No failures, only “important negative data”. Enjoyed the series, thanks. 👍🏻

Not a failure in the least. You made 4 good videos and taught this old dog not to try. Thank you.

I am 100% like you in my interest in everything ... It has served me well over the years... People would often ask me who I know so much about so many different things... I told them the truth ... Every time a person was doing anything different I would watch, ask questions and take notes to review at different times... thanks for sharing ... Stay safe and well ...

really is amazing though that Sears found a way to speed reduce in such a compact little set up. Conventional means with pulley sizes take up SO MUCH SPACE

Not all experiments have positive results. Thank you for this video Mr Pete.

Wow...3 videos in 1 week...lovin it!! My favorite RU-vid shop teacher!!

By far the best best for home shop use was your video on using the portable band saw with the vise-mounted vertical table. For those of you interested, check Mr. Pete's video listing. I made mine from that and it works wonderfully!

Paul is great !!! Thanks again. Very informative. You can tell experience means a lot . Wise man !!

Thank you for sharing. Very much enjoyed.👍👀

thanks for sharing. it wasn't a failure, it was a good lesson

I have a 1958 Delta 14" wood/ metal band saw. It has seven speeds for different metals, they run from just over 50 sfpm to over 300. With the correct blade and speed for what I am cutting it works fine. It is never going to cut like a DoAll or a Marvel. A good comparison would be expecting a 9" bench top lathe to cut like a industrial 14" lathe, it just isn't going to happen. It was interesting to see how the Sears speed converter worked. I have never seen one before. I am sure that some home shop guys could come up with some clever uses for one.

You could run a 3/6 compound on a countershaft. Bolt the assembly on to the belt guard holes hanging under the plate. And you could make a pulley turning video and explain all that. Terrible but easy for me. ;-) Looks like you are correct on the stiffness. It would be fun to add some mass to see if you could tune it out but nobody else is going to do that. Good series.

Thank you so much for this (and all your) video. There is always something to learn from your classes. You keep me thinking and my mind working. Although I’m in my 60s you make me feel like a teen student. Thank you sir!

"I'm interested in everything"! Me too! I bought one of these saws at a tag sale. It has the cored casting arm and a second motor and belt attached to the base of the frame. Different than your Sears attachment, but similar and works well to lower blade speed. I also get chatter when cutting, but I'm happy to get through the material! I ran horizontal cut-off saws & vertical band saws in an aerospace mfg plant for a while. I always figured FPM blade speed,, and square inches / min of cutting area for different sizes, materials, and blades. I used to cut 10" diameter 6-4 titanium bars (AMS 4928) and rectangular forged bars. The round bars were rough turned, and the forged bars were sand blasted to remove the oxygen rich layer (alpha case). If the alpha case was not removed, a blade could be ruined on the first cut. These days I just wing it.

Many years ago my machinist grandfather (featured in my Miller Brothers video) built a jackshaft coupled to a Ford Model A transmission to slow down his Delta band saw. Wish I had a picture of it. Many ways to skin a cat. You've done a couple of videos on that very useful transmission!

I was involved with two bandsaw conversions (basically reducing the speed as you did) changing from wood to metal cutting. One was with a saw similar to yours. I don't remember the make, it could have been Delta, but two guys could easily lift it and move it around. It yielded the same chattering results that yours did. The other was an antique Crescent band saw that required four or more guys to move it around...a big lump of cast iron. The Crescent proved to be the better candidate for conversion and I think it was because it was mammoth enough to absorb the vibration.

Thanks for the nice comment on my video, Mr. Pete. I have learned much from watching your channel over the years.

I'll be the smart alec in the front row and point out that pulley ratios should be calculated with pitch diameters rather than outside diameters. For "A" or "4L" section belts, PD is 1/4" less than OD. In this case, 5.75 and 2.25 inches. With those figures you get about 242 fpm. A little closer to your goal for free! But a serious question. Is the alignment pin a standard taper? My pin is missing, and if I know the specs I can make a replacement.

I found a 14" Jet wood/metal band saw for sale yesterday and have been looking at all your band saw videos to help make a purchase choice. Living in Anchorage, Alaska where there is virtually no industry makes finding used metal working tools (or used three phase motors) rare. (I envy the Sears metal cutting saw you did the video on a while back.) I already know that the Jet's speed is 5-6 times too fast - the Sears Slo-speed converter would be just the thing to bring it under control, but they are apparently a rare bird. You are fortunate to have a store that has a good selection of reasonably priced pulleys. The only places that might stock replacement pulleys in my town are the specialty power transmission/bearing suppliers and the price would be several times what you paid - if the even had them. Thanks for this group of videos. They have been very helpful.

I mentioned my conversion of a 12” Craftsman vertical wood bandsaw. Two things I’ve never had the chatter issue like you have on you shown. Second I use the vertical bandsaw, mainly for fabrication work. Plus I recycle a lot of broken steering components for the steel. So it’s a integral part of my hobby shop

Thank you for going through this exercise.

Thanks for the tutorial in speed equations.

Everything has a resonate frequency of vibration. It may be that the weight of the Delta is in a certain range of harmonics at those low blade speeds and tooth pitches. I converted my 14" Delta bandsaw to a combination high/low speed machine back 30 years ago. It yielded similar results at low speeds. Lots of chatter, but you could still get the job done. I built a multi speed transmission using 4 cone pulleys (reduction/overdrive). When I was cutting any aluminum 1/4" or thicker, I liked to use a 4 or 6 pitch skip tooth blade at high speed with Johnson Stick Wax. Thanks for the presentation, Mr. Pete!

Laugh Out Loud (LOL) when you said the big wheel was from your other failures. Your a funny guy. I like that.

One last shot! The one I have with the back gear and the cored frame doesn't chatter like this one. I do have a 1/2 inch blade in mine though and tensioned.

"Tighter than a bull's but in blow fly season?" now that's pretty tight.

Thanks Mr Pete we enjoy watching your videos with our morning coffee

Very interesting as always, it’s the little thing you point out along the way, Thanks

Thanks for making this video. It rounds out your videos on the subject. When you completed the previous ones, I was always wondering how this may or may not turn out...a cliff hanger of sorts. My curiosity has been satisfied...Thanks! You've save me (and likely others) from buying an old wood cutting bandsaw and trying to convert it.

I have that same B&S straightedge, cost me almost $120 new a couple of years ago, there isn't much in the way of machinist's tool garage sales in my part of the country. I always thought the table wedge was to couple the table back together against vibration by creating a node, it never occurred to me that it was for alignment, good to know! My ancient Craftsman 12" band saw cuts aluminum ok on its normal "warp speed" setting if I use a good Starrett bi-metal blade with as few teeth per inch as I can get, but it definitely needs a speed reducer because the cut gets hot and aluminum sticks to the blade if used for more than an inch or two of thick metal. You can call it all a failure but I learned a lot from both videos, including belt ratios. I'm one of the daydreamers in the back of the class who got an "F" on the pulley reducer ratio test, by the way....must have had a cheerleader on my mind or something!

Thank you for showing the gearbox of the boice crane bandsaw

I always learn something from you, keep it up. I didn’t know that about reamers Thank you

Thank you for your efforts Mr. Pete. It was an interesting project.

Forty years ago when we started in business we had two of those Boice Crane saws. They were well-made real machines but the tires rotted off and something happened with one of the upper wheels. We bought a used DoAll ML and sold or traded away the Boice saws. I haven't seen another since then, thanks for the memories...

Delta machines were price point machines. So they had to keep costs down and sometimes it shows. It's not bad machinery by any means it's just when you drive Lincolns all the time and then drive a Ford you notice the difference. Delta was the better brand for this level of machinery

The blade is pulling down on the material, so the most likely problem is between the table and the lower pulley. Watching the table vibrate suggests the table mounting is less than brilliant . However , just as likely the lower blade pulley bearing is unable to resist the cutting forces either.

Thanks for sharing 👍

You should see the metal cutting Delta. So much heavier. I needed a wood and could only buy metal. So i mail ordered my wood Delta. The metal was like 3x weight and same size.

Well, you outdid the Post Office rant.

Good job Mr. Pete. I bought a Sears wood cutting band saw of Craigslist for $100 and have entertained adding on some means of speed reduction to be able to cut metals. The saw is on a light weight open frame stand; therefore, I'd have to fabricate a bunch of architecture within that stand to accommodate the reduction component and motor. I was considering using #40 roller chain and sprockets to get the reduction I need but once I began adding up the cost of the sprockets and pillow blocks, it no longer seemed feasible to me. Now I am thinking more in terms of a motor that I can use with a variable frequency drive and just dial the speed in.

Mr. Pete, I have asawjust like yours but it is wearing a Jet decal. I created a 10 to 1 reduction using pulleys from my local farm store. I use it to cut small metal projects regularly. Thanks for sharing this information with us.

Great info. I wanted to do the same with my band craftmans saw.

I watched the original series on your attempts to convert this saw so this was a great follow-up since that reducer was designed to do just what you were trying to accomplish. As far as that bull at blow fly season.....

Thanks for the video! I had some good success with converting my Boice crane saw to metal cutting by making a jackshaft. I also by the way made your blade guide though with steel. my saw was the wood type with no gearbox. I did have to make a new sheet metal cover for the big pulley and open up the hole in the stand to make more clearance for the belt! The boice crane is a more rigid saw frame and doesn't vibrate excessively or chatter .

Love the auction sales!

I have the same Delta band saw from the early 90's, the upper support was cast in Mexico and the hole for the adjustable, blade guide rod was made by a simple sand core, no machining. As a result the hole was sloppy and out of alignment. That may be causing the chatter and vibration. I ended up boring and bushing that crappy hole, huge improvement. I think these light duty band saw don't dampen the vibration enough. A DoAll is on my wish list...

23:45 "I beat this subject to death". There is no subject so dead that it can't be beaten a little further. We thoroughly enjoy watching you beat subjects to death or to life. 😀😀😀

I really enjoyed this very interesting video. That speed converter is a very nice piece of kit hope you find another use for it elsewhere Mrpete. 👍👍

Mr. Pete…. Nice, very, very complete video! And I use my metal band saw an incredible amount…. And as always… Thank you for sharing your time and many talents. All the best… Chuck

I love your videos keep making them and I love the bullfly joke

What about the rubber tires 🤔 Thanks again for all the work and time.

Hi Mr. Pete. I don't see this as a failure. Sometimes we kind of just have to make compromises. The howling is probably due to lack of rigidity but sometimes it's just the harmonics of the hollow cavities of the machine. Even small differences in seemingly identical machines can have different resonant frequencies. Different metals in the machine resonate at different frequencies too.

Your Boice Crane bandsaw do you have a quick way to change the blade?? I have one and it’s a pain to change the blade, the two videos were very educational to me, I don’t see failure, I see some very useful shop math and applications of that math! Great project! I enjoyed and learned a lot thanks for doing this series!

I thought I saw the horse move Beat It Again

I use mine slot for steel! I used a gear reduction box and got it Perfecto!!!!!!

I was really interested in all this, as I have very little space in my workshop and I wanted a small vertical bandsaw that I could use for both metal and wood, but I can't find anything, so had got hold of an old saw that had a gearbox, but was in need of a lot of TLC and similar to your delta.

Lyle, I have an AMT band saw that I'm trying to make operable. It was missing the table with the trunnions, and the lower blade guide. Amy no longer sells Taiwanese power tools, so I'll retrofit these parts to make it useable. It is for woodworking. I have other tools for cutting metal.

👍👍👍👍👍

Mr. Pete, I have looked at the Delta wood/metal saws for 25 years. I never had the money to purchase one. Jet used to have a copy too. I always wondered about the rigidity of the frame. I noticed that vertical band saws for metal, even the same size imports from Grizzly are more expensive and weigh more. It would be worth it to try a metal cutting blade to see if it makes a difference. I think a horizontal bandsaw for $1200 would be a better choice. I'd love the ability to cut out parts from steel, but the additional price is too much. I'd rather save the money to replace my SB 10K lathe with a good 14" x 40 inch unit with enough horsepower to use carbide inserts at the right speeds. Thanks for the video.

You could try a coarser or lower tooth count blade. The teeth are loading up before they are leaving the material which causes chatter.

Glad I didn’t find the SloSpeed converter on eBay. I bought an old Craftsman horizontal metal saw instead. Works fine for my purposes, cutting for metal for welding, and now I can sell the horrible freight one which is much crappier.

14:08 Mr. Pete--The Most Interested Man Alive.

I saw that stinger. 😀

Timing Light? Always interesting, everytime. Waiting for you to receive the Academy Award.

Very informative even if the outcome wasn't the desired one. I think the market is missing an opportunity by not making a consumer grade vertical band saw. People don't have them because the commercial ones are just too darn expensive. I always keep an eye out for one, but even rusted broken down ones fetch good money. And you know people want them, there are many videos of people using their horizontal saws as vertical, making bases for port-a-band type saws to use vertically, and other videos of trying to convert vertical saws as well. Vertical metal band saws are often a suggested search term in marketplace like forums as well. Harbor Freight would do well to make us one, it would sell.

Mr Pete in this endeavor you’re test driving a Ford Pinto after being accustomed to driving a Rolls Royce. Both will get you where you want but the trip is completely different. Delta makes a good saw but even in woodworking that saw falls short to a commercial saw. For someone who hasn’t the resources you do this may have been an ok remedy for steel

Lyle - Another great video. Once you get it all tuned you should like having the saw available. Years ago I got at an auction a Sprunger 14 inch band saw that was converted by a retired tool maker into metal cutting using jack shafts and pulleys. I imagine you have heard of Sprunger as they were from your neck of the woods. Same end state as yours but not as compact as yours with that nice speed reducer. As I recall I calculated it at just about 100 SFPM blade speed and it has worked well for me over the years. My old Oliver wood cutting band saw has the tapered pin in the table to hold things straight as well. Keep up the good work.

YAY! I got the reamer extra credit question right! ....I'mma gonna go get me some pancakes!

Experiment idea: set up an indicator on the back of the blade guide and then push it from the front to see how much it deflects, and then compare the wood saw to the metal cutting saw. (Might need some kind of way of applying equal pressure, or just wing it.) The hypothesis being there's a lot more cutting force against that support on metal than wood.

Again a nice video with much to learn. In the calculation of the bandsaw speed, I do not understand why you take the effort of converting inches into feet. The calculation gives the same answer if you fill in the diameters in inches. Just an observation to help. Cheers.

Hi Mr Pete!Looking at you cutting your test pieces it seems to be bad contact on the insert plate that enables chattering, if you change to a more rigid zero clearance insert that gives better support under the test pieces and not cutting tiny corner pieces it would improve things.Just a thought :)Long time fan from sweden!

Lol, Tubalcain you called them communist if they mentioned the electrical connection on the Boice-Crane motor. It does look like some kinda Rube Goldberg setup though. Dont worry about that, great video on getting that slow speed.

Interesting video Mr Pete , facinating to see the swarf dance on the table while cutting the 1/4 plate steel. I wonder if that is a clue as to why there is so much chatter ?. Table mount ridgidity ?

I got my 1900 era 24 in shaper motor powered up, tapped the tool post i made, now i am 2 belts away from chip production

Maybe you could install a couple of rollers pushing the belt in, so you don't have to make the square hole bigger.

Could lessen belt friction by using rollers instead of fixed pipe. Probably more trouble than its worth though for an experiment.

Always wondered the necessity of the little band saw table widget.

This is all really interesting and how much work you did but to me is obvious that a metal band saw should be much heavier than the wood one..Thank you.

Pete put a double 3” pulley on the bandsaw drive be to cut the speed in half. Edit crap no 12” oops.

Just a thought do the 14 inch wheels have tires ? The chatter (vibration) can develop in the compliant rubber metal cutting saws normally do not have compliant tires on the wheels.

I just found the taper size for the delta band saw table . I believe it to be a #6 x 2.5 long, standard pin # 98390A347 from McMaster Carr or Pin # 92281A347 with threaded end.

Would guide bearings instead of kool blocks help with the chatter ? Being that my horizontal band saw and Porta band both use bearings for guides .

I buy refurbish “remakining” tools and machinery and usually resell at a loss of money and a gain in skill and understanding. I have done 8 bandsaws. Mostly 14 from Taiwan. The tensioner needs to be tighter than the stock spring will allow for metal. Did he correct tension is C sharp. My current project is a unisaw which the table is abused by buba😂. I also procured a unifence. I need help o flatten and clean up the table on my jet/Bridgeport with a 6”face-mill (coronomat) and make the rail for the fence from scratch. I can go through the drive and add the VFD in a day. I have done many other machine and tools some scratch built. Shop is 16x24 warm all winter. I am in Wisconsin between appleton and greenbay.

May want to consider blade tension regarding the chatter. Also, how sharp is the blade? Also, how hard is the blade and what type of steel or other material is it made from. Always lots of variables when solving a problem. Teeth per inch would be another thing to look at as well as the tooth depth. The angle of the teeth could also be a factor as well as the thickness of the blade. Grain pattern of the stock also. Are you cutting mostly with or against the stock's grain.

To get ~100 fpm from a 1725 rpm motor requires a 63:1 reduction. If you keep your present 2.5:6 pulleys, a ~30:1 worm drive would answer. These seem to be readily available on EBAY. Why not just get one and fit it up? BTW the calculation is a simple one. I expect your calculations showed the Sears unit would not reduce the speed sufficiently. If so, why go to the trouble of installing and characterization? I do enjoy your vids. Cheers.

Mine is a 14 in Delta

I'm new to all this so let me ask a stupid question. Why are you concerned about the amount of chatter? If it is cutting well, other than the noise why do we care? I love this channel, and this was a great series. Thanks for you extreme attention to detail.

Like # 500...

I'm no engineer but if I had to guess my guess would be that the lack of rigidity comes from the tiny adjustable blade guide arm.

At 8 minutes 30 seconds, was that a Goodell Pratt, or Craftsan labeled?

Interesing. I just converted a Taiwan 14" saw with a 30:1 gearbox and dont have near the noise or chatter. My speed is near yours and it is constructed near the same.

Does anybody by chance know what the taper # is for the taper pin on the bandsaw table.? My used delta saw didn't have when i bought it. Any current suppliers make or sell replacement pins for the them??

Hi Mr Pete my saw cutting 1/8 and less does make more noise and 1/4 inch works just fine sorry your disappointed i don't have any answer Thanks Again for all your efforts .JM

I am curious about the blade you are using was it particularly a steel cutting blade or just the wood one running slower to not burn up? I suspect the rake on a wood cutting blade is way more than a steel cutting blade. Perhaps that is your issue.

Hey Mr Pete i went to buy some T shirts a wile back and they were out so last week i looked and i don't think they sell that type of shirt anymore but got a couple of sweat shirts . Just thought you would like to know . JM

I notice you're missing the table pin on that Boice-Crane 🙂

I wonder if there's still value in the lower speed for use with hardwoods