Secret Tech Cards You Should Be Playing | Commander Clash Podcast 97 

Obscuring haze is NOT just combat damage, there are several cards that deal damage as parts of combos! Syr Konrad and reckless fireweaver come to mind

Just a little thing about Infernal Sovereign : you can't really be denied a draw with it. Since you're skipping the entire draw step, you go from you upkeep straight to your main phase, so if you skept your draw step you will always be able to play a land or a sorcery speed card and get a draw. And if it's dealt with before the draw step, well you'll get your typical draw anyway. Maybe someone told it after the point I'm actually listening but I neede to write this out before I forget it.

Somebody alert the media, Seth has managed to successfully pronounce Eiganjo correctly. I am legitimately thrilled

Obscuring Haze could be used as a Fog, yes. Obscuring Haze could more efficiently be used to stop Glint-Horn Buccaneer//Curiosity combo if the blue players at the table couldn't successfully respond. There are other cases that aren't so niche, but it does say all damage, not _COMBAT_ damage and I think that nuance was left out of the conversation because it is a crucial distinction.

Richard doesn't seem very convinced that Tomer's plants are fine 😂

Richard and Seth fog tier list please!

I wanna see that two headed giants game, where crim/tomer vs seth/richard settle once and for all who's favorite edh jank is coming out on top.

Dress Down is exemplary. A two mana, one blue pip Stifle that draws. Although a little niche, a cheap removal spell that draws a card is way too good to overlook.

Whirlwind Denial I consider it to be on the same level as Teferi's Protection. It just shuts down whatever your opponents are doing to win.

My secret tech is Incarnation Technique in basically any deck with 20+ creatures. There is always a deck at the table that you can target in such a way that they are very unlikely to get anything good, think the spellslinger or the artifact player. But when you have good creatures in your deck, boom! You get two of them. A nice side effect other than filling your GY is that the opponents have no interaction points between the spell being cast and the creatures entering play, so you can take advantage of that with certain very powerful creatures, like razaketh.

Just wanted to share my favorite tech :) : Mystic Reflection! It deals "permanently" with must-answer commanders (as long as it's not aristocrats), can be used for fun, flexible on-the-spot combos, if necessary can be used as creature counter, and is just a generally fun card.

Obscuring Haze has another upside in that you can use it on your attack step and prevent damage. So it can be proactive.

Fogs are indeed super underrated. I've won more games after playing a fog than a targeted removal for sure!

So glad to see Restoration of Eiganjo getting some love! Way to go, Seth

This pod was really good. Everyone was pretty reasonable. And it was odd to see Tomer and Crim agreeing on almost everything.

The problem with removal vs fogs is that when I'm playing one of my aggressive, creature based decks and somebody removes my best creature, I don't care. But if I swing out to kill somebody and they fog me, I lose. "Fogs are situational" but the situation is a phase that every player gets each turn and the way most decks win games.

Tomer is most definitely underating fog effects. Moments Peace is such a great fog also because most people dont see the flashback fog from the graveyard coming then die on the crack back.

Seth’s facial expressions from 20:22 onwards are just gold

I love that no matter what card they bring up everyone griefs it a little bit because we have four almost completely conflicting play styles with these four, completely different points of views and opinions that are all completely valid because of what Magic is as a game

I'm with Tomer and Crim on Filter Out. The fact that it doesn't hit creatures is easily balanced out by how cheap it is and the instant speed aspect. Its definitely at its strongest in creature heavy decks or spellslinger decks that don't have many permanents in the first place, but even just doing it on the end step so you get to redeploy first is a big deal. Also a good way to deal with treasure spamming

I legit can’t believe they were arguing about if “whenever you cast a spell, draw a card” is good 😂

One of the things people don't appreciate about fogs is the offensive capability. You can swing absolutely recklessly and not have to worry about revenge. I've had people swing back with everything and leave themselves exposed to still more swings, like if you get somebody tilted at you or if you're down to two players fog is pretty much straight wincon.

Obscuring haze is even better than most fogs in another way as well. It just says damage from creatures. Not combat damage. It is good against things like Purphoros and Terror of the peaks which tend to be win cons in creature based decks which include red.

Fogs are strong, when you can safely swing your board out without retalitation. Always play 1 or 2 in my creature heavy decks.

A 3/4 Vigilance that makes even more bodies is incredibly *decent* as free upside to your Land fixing and reanimation or ramp card: Restoration of Eiganjo is an all-star value card.

"The logic! My brain is melting!" had me dying XD

Lmao, Seth's facial expressions when Tomer and Crim talked about "Filter Out" were golden. Never saw him so confused before. xD

I would play obscuring haze over ink shield 😆. 5 mana is just way too much to hold up I’ve never been able to get it to work well. Unless you’re running a lot of cards with flash like opposition agent, archivist of ogma, deep gnome terramancer etc. obviously it works well in instant speed spellslinger.

Always happy to see these episodes pop up in my subscriptions

A recent cEDH tournament featured a finals where Peer Into the Abyss was Deflecting Swatted. Can't do that with an indestructible spell.

8:04 I was thinking about this as soon as Seth mentioned the fog. Teferis is even better because sometimes it's a fog, sometimes it's a board wipe protection.

Breach the Multiverse is absolutely cracked. First time I saw it put on the stack, I told my buddy it was too expensive for not enough. And then I got played against it in a pod and I’ve been nothing but impressed every time I’ve seen it.

Restoration of Eiganjo is genuinely fire. It has synergy with flicker/blink decks as well to flip the creature back to the saga and continually snag Plains. The pitch/reanimate chapter is so good for retrieving spent sac creatures like Dauntless dismantler, as well as cheating stax pieces into play besides just doubling up on land drops. It gets back fetches. It massively overperformed relative to what I had expected when I slotted it in and is a reliable roleplayer with a high ceiling given the reight synergies.

a note about Berserk is its specifically a destroy effect. I've used it on my Blightsteel to ensure a kill and keep my creature.

At 20:20 seth's facial expression to crim saying "this card is huge!" Was amazing

I always try to have at least one Fog effect in all of my decks. There are some situations where Fog is literally the only answer. I am also becoming a big fan of Filter Out. End Step it on the Enchantress player and they need to discard down to hand size. People also just play big durdley Artifacts and Enchantments. Make them re-play those cards so you have another opportunity to counter them.

Inkshield is literally the card that has killed me the most in commander in the last year and a half. I've been blown out by it 4 times as I try to go for lethal attacks. No other single card has killed me as much as this one card.

Constant Mists can't keep up with 3 possible attackers and 1 land drop per turn.

22:20 I would play filter out IN enchantress itself! It saves your stuff from a board wipe and retriggers your card draw and etbs while setting others behind.

I love Filter Out! One thing that wasn’t mentioned too heavily is blue doesn’t deal with enchantments very well. Think about Smothering Tithe, Phyrexian Arena, Rhystic Study, all the problematic cards that get set up early game. For 3 mana at instant speed to bounce it all?? That’s awesome!

the problem with Viridian Revel is how many green enchantments that have 'When X, then draw a card'. I would typically prefer the ones I can control like Guardian Project. its been on my almost list many times but just end s up in the last cuts list

Breach the Multiverse is my ideal follow-up on the turn after I cast The Haunt of Hightower.

Filter Out is very obviously good. I have no idea why there was a debate there. It's literally 3 mana Cyclonic Rift against a ton of decks.

Fogs are almost always subpar Dress down is not a secret, its known tech. Restoration of Eiganjo is subpar and not ramp. I've always had a soft spot for glory.

Love Seth's face during that Filter Out discussion xD

“It synergizes with your blue mana.” Now that is pure comedy gold 😂@1:34:20

Inkshield works for me most times I hold open mana. The trick is to look at your opponents' boards. If they have creatures, then ask the following questions: 1. Am I archenemy? 2. Does the player who is archenemy consider me a threat? 3. Is someone about to swing at everyone for 40? If the answer to any of these is yes, then hold open 5 mana. Politic so that you're the threat, or do something to aggravate the potential attacker. 9 times out of 10 it'll do the trick.

In defense of swat effects. If they cast auras or combat tricks or recursion or a tutor this is a counterspell. They go to reanimate worldgorger dragon and you make them get a mana dork. They cast vampiric tutor for a combo piece you make them get a land. They get eldrazi conscription or phyresis and you put it on a creature you control. And if you can copy any of those you are way way better off. They also work great as removal in spellslinger decks and mono red decks. You can get someone's removal even if it isn't hitting you. EX So opponent A has a smothering tithe and a ghostly prison. You need to attack. Opponent B casts naturalize on the smothering tithe. You redirect it to the ghostly prison and can take opponent A out next turn.

Richard really has me rethinking my entire deck building strategy, and I’m here for it.

Commit // memory is my under rated tech for dealing with enchantments in my grixis decks the fact that it's also a wheel is just icing on the cake

You know what else is instant speed? Crim's ability to disagree with sensible information the moment it reaches his brain

So for anyone wondering about the "Reversal" style cards, think of it this way- in a non-blue deck, these are your counterspells (with extra value). At worst Wyll's Reversal is Negate with +1 cost and extra value. The other two are almost always even better rate Negate. If you're not running blue and you're in red you probably should have 2 to 3 of these effects. The applications for them are virtually limitless.

Inkshield has won me a lot of games. But it's rotted in my hand a few times too. Overall I think it's worth it.

If your playgroup is inundated by Teferi's Protections and Clever Concealments may i suggest Time and Tide to bring those cowards back to face the wrath!

The uncommon Anger cycle is from the graveyard-heavy Judgment set. So are Genesis and Glory, but Judgment was also the Green/White set, so those colors got rares that did something similar.

I think Viridian Revel is somewhat meta dependent, mostly by if players in the group have up to date decks. If the boomer has an old deck pre-treasure era it's a lot weaker. But I do think it's very worth testing! But that Jund deck Tomer pitched for it does actually sound sick

Filter Out. Guys. It gets rid of Smothering Tithe, Rhystic Study, Black Market Connections, Sphere of Safty, all their treasures, clues, food, mana rocks, Utopia Sprawls, Rooftop Storms, Ghostly Prisons. This card essentially Timewalks them. If you bounce just 2 signets or something it takes them 4 mana to come back. Sure they still get 2 mana but think about how big a deal it is on turn 4 to have 2 mana instead of 6. And against any kind of treasure or artifact/enchantment deck this resets them. If they are playing stax or you need to be able to attack past a propoganda style effect this does that. Think of the affect of removing a smothering Tithe and all treasures on their endstep. Even if this gets 1 or 2 or 3 of your things you are A OK because your main game plan is unaffected. It also stops combos that require an artifact or enchantment. Or planeswalkers. Its at least as good as a Feed the Swarm because this bounces theros gods, etc.

Stasis Coffin is my secret tech. It you can play it, if necessary activate it as it's not too expensive. But it provides a heavy deterence to being attacked without threatening your opponent's board presence, but still threatening a counter attack if they force an activation.

One of the funniest interactions I ever had was when I was facing someone in a pod who had Viridian Revel and I was running a treasure heavy deck. They started laughing when they played it bc they kept drawing when I would crack treasures. And I ended up drawing smothering tithe and played it which made him laugh even more he had said “haha you’re just gonna keep feeding me all this free draw, you’re screwed”. But then when I noticed he was tapped out it clicked lmao. Started cracking my treasures and milled him out on the spot…he didn’t think about that 😂.

Constant Mists has saved me more times than any other card and it isn't even remotely close.

A good part of fog effects is you can save someone else

@25:05, Seth, when you bounce their permeants to their hand once they pass second main, they can only keep the 7 best cards and will have to discard. I know this isnt like DESTROY/EXILE everything but 3 mana to hold up at your leisure, Filter Out is good.

Obscuring Haze isn't just a fog though, it's also a combat trick since it doesn't prevent your own creatures from dealing damage.

Gotta agree with Richard, constant mists in my lands deck has won me games several times.

I love dress down but it always causes so many rule questions lol

Richard and Seth podcast i didnt know i needed it.... But i do.

Constant mists is genuinely the reason most of my combat based decks have some form of alternative wincon. I completely agree with Richard that some decks just, cannot beat a constant mists and a crucible of worlds.

Pygmy Kavu has put in work for me, sometimes you get a 4 cmc draw 10+ out of it, sometimes you draw nothing, but it's still a blocker.

I really enjoyed this video. My only wish was each member would have given each card presented a grade afterwards.

It's hard to argue with anything Crim says while he's wearing that Yusuke shirt.

Something I believe you guys overlook is that inkshield creates the bodies for any prevented damage to any players. Of course somebody may not attack the player with 5 open mana, but it doesn't have to fog for you, so it can politic and create a deadly board. You were evaluating it as a fog but its really just instant speed token creation. Generally not worth popping off unless your expecting to prevent seven or more damage... 5 mana for 14 power of flyers is good in most formats

Next stats episode I'd love to see how much indestructible ACTUALLY shows up

A personal favorite is Mandate of Peace. My pod has a combat heavy meta and while the bare fog effect is nice there, I also use it to stifle attack triggers, combat tricks, or damage triggers.

Glory might be amazing in my archangel avacyn deck.... great pick Tomer!

Regarding the question at the very end: I’m team fog. I don’t use fogs at all really but I don’t use Filter Out either and if I had to choose between preventing all damage or bouncing non-creature permanents, I would prevent the damage. There have been way more situations where I was facing a massive attack for lethal compared to when there was an annoying artifact or enchantment that I wanted gone for just one turn

Fog effects are very powerful in Commander enough said. In certain pods constant mists cannot be beaten.

Obscuring Haze is like a mini G boardwipe. I play it everywhere and it ALWAYS slaps.

Glory is absolutely amazing! I've never heard of this card so it definitely goes in my avacyn deck! Give everything protection until i can cast avacyn? Yes please. Though how how to get in the graveyard? But it's definitely awesome in any white+X graveyard deck

I'm playing viridian revel over sylvan library in my cedh deck these days as it consistently draws me 10+ cards a game, and has drawn my entire deck. Busted in a dockside heavy meta. Also kinda nutty with Culling Ritual after everyone ramps with 0/1/2 mana rocks - sweep the board clean, get mana for it and cards to spend the mana on.

Deep Gnome Terramancer worked well for my buddy. We were playing lots of land ramp cards like Three Visits but also the 5 color deck kept triggering from their fetches.

You guys brought it up real quick, but can get we a stream discussing your picks for budget replacements for expensive cards

brimaz notably would love breach the multiverse, for everyone who got the phyrexian precon

In casual people often dont need a fog unless their opp is swinging out for the win. Inkshield not only lets you survive but lets your opponents die and makes you a ton of tokens to swing back for lethal where regular fogs would let all of your opponents survive and beat you next turn. Inkshield isnt a good card but it is a timmy card and in casual formats it is amazing since most people have creature based decks.

Dress down works really good in Hanna :) recurring it every turn

Inkshield is a fantastic card in an agro deck. Anything lower to the ground where you want to run out cards on the first 4 turns leaves you not wanting to over extend. From there you can often be playing with 5+ mana up. I play it in Breena with a lot of 1 drops, works like a charm. Bolt Bend being your instant speed, on the stack, interaction is fantastic for Jund decks. It's often hard to find something in those colors that can stop a Counterspell or a Time Warp or a Peer into the Abyss or a Blue Sun's Zennith. Bolt Bend not only stops those from having their expected outcome, it positively interacts with those spells by stealing their effects and all for only one mana. For personal secret tech cards Tainted Strike, Silence, and Angel's Grace take the cake for me. Tainted Strike can either delete a player, fog a creature, or shrink an indestructible creature. It goes in any deck I can shoe horn it into. Silence and Angel's Grace can often timewalk an opponent or positively interact on the stack with another player trying to combo out which is rare enough for me to warrant an inclusion for most of my decks.

Secret recent tech for me: Serum Sovereign, a poor persons Consecrated Spinx - Obscuring Haze, love the shout out, I love this card and have had many blow out turns by making it look like I am all tapped out and open to simply Obscuring Haze them and swing on their open board on my turn. - Constant Mists is amazing in a Korvold land matters deck, buyback basically becomes Sacrifice land put +1/+1 counter on Korvold and Draw a card - Filter out has been pretty fun in Animar - Viridian Revel + Descent into Avernus - I been using Hatred in my Dihada Binder of Wills deck, giving a creature Lifelink, Indestructibe, Vigilance, and surprise my opponent with instant death, gain back all my life= Winning at all costs. Hatred has done some silly things in power matters mana dork (ex: Selvala) decks also, kind of like a Black version of Channel. - See Double is great, I love instant copy/clone effects, sending some love to Elminsters simulacrum I've had some crazy blow out turns with this card despite costing 6cmc :P

I run Viridian Revel in my Vazi, Keen Negotiaor deck along with the other cards Crim mentioned.

Restoration is especially good in constellation since it gives you a second trigger when it flips

Tomers reversal exists as a 100% version for 4 mana (Wild Ricochet) and let me tell you, 90% of the time i just hold up mana for no reason at all with that spell, and at 3 mana it would be just as bad, except at least being 100% i can use it as a reverberate on a good spell without targets is actually valuable.

The reason fogs are situational is the same reason removal is situational: you don't run enough. If you had 4 fogs in hand, that's 4 attacks you can defend against and likely less than 7 mana total. This could be what you need to get to your next turn. If you remove 1 baddy your opponents have it might not be enough to get to your turn to win the game but if you can prevent 3 combats of your opponents ganging up on you to get back to you, it's over.

45:51 Did Crim just call a green card sweet? 😂

Just going to say that you can't kill infernal sovereign at the end of the draw phase (and make your opponent skip their draw without the upside of having the demon) because you skip your draw phase. Either your opponents kill it on your upkeep (at which point you get a draw phase), or you go to your first main with priority.

i've been focusing on running protection instead of removal, including fogs, and i like it a lot. i 'm essentially saying go ahead and play whatever you want but it ain't gonna help you if youcan't touch me. i' lose to combat damage 85% of the time, why not address it?

I'm pro Obscuring haze. It can be a fog, sure. But on top: It can be a one-sided combat trick. (your creatures arent affected, and you're in green.) And it disables so many non-combat damage effects, even combos and loops. The big upside of this compared to other effects is, that it isn't limited to combat damage. Oh and on top it can be free. Not a dead card. Versatile enough. Just don't be too afraid to never use it.

I think constants mists is the only fog I would play. Simply because you can reuse it. Any other fog effect is a one time thing, and there are three opponents. A fog is just a prevention on 1/3 of a turn cycle. And, to be honest, now days constants mists cost the same as a mass removal, mana-wise. The only reason to play fogs over removal are, you get to keep your stuff or you get to politik the board a little. Not surprised Richard like fogs here, as we will usually have a board presence early on and will not like to wrath at any moment in the game, and he will think that those creatures attacking you, could potentially be used against another person next turn. But, then again, you do not get to do anything like this if your oponents are combo killing you, which is usually the most efficient way to win a game of commander, so...

Obscuring Haze is nutty. I can stop a Blood Artist comboing out. And is also a potential politics piece. One of the few fogs that can be used for other players benefits. ALSO it being free means when enemies see you are tapped out they are more likely to over spend their resources to kill you because they think you have no answer. It's just so versatile.

Winter Blast from Legends. Read the card closely. It lets you tap any creature, not just flying creatures.

Infernal Sovereign is going in my Queza deck. Sure, I could have played her as wheels, but I thought connive and other draw attached to slapping people was more fun. Plus she just recovers the life and dishes it out to the table.

the wording on Obscuring Haze also stops specific combos where a creature is dealing damage, such as Syr Konrad and Living Death.

Regarding Fog v. Swords to Plowshares… The creatures making you lose are not always attacking you..