*Addendums:* 1) More documentary style videos: *What Was So Great About Arcades in the 80's & 90's?* Mini video documentary discussing the above ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-sW2uVvl2tNc.html *Which version of Outrun 2 is the best?:* ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-WwK2HlKXHJI.html *Outrun (by Sega) 30th Birthday Tribute - The game, the legacy!* -ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zJ0462V9cao.html *30 Years of After Burner by Sega - the game, the legacy* - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ZGEP1eJN8Q0.html *Sega Rally 3 Vs Sega Rally Online Arcade (Sega Europa R Vs PS3)* - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-e8qBsNC4jIk.html 2)RU-vid has been really messing with the video quality of all my recent uploads (despite the fact I'm using their recommended bitrate for my videos), giving some stuff a really blocky and pixelated look, even at 1080p, that isn't in the original video. It's done a real number here on _all_ of the Scud Race and Daytona USA 2 footage and really downgraded it. Really annoying it's done this in a video where I'm _specifically_ trying to emphasize how good the games look. Seems quite a few other RU-vidrs are having the same issue. You can see how it's downgraded it from the original video here: sta.sh/01frfuxnp9ox 3) facebook.com/ScudRace/ Facebook page I set up about 8 years ago to try and petition Sega to bring Scud Race out on the _last_ generation of consoles. Really more of a place to chat about arcade racers and post any interesting videos or news about them now. 4) At the 21:00 minute mark I'm taking about how it's possible to keep a game of Daytona USA 2001 in sync with the original arcade version of Daytona USA, but I've noticed I accidentally say Daytona USA 2 when referring to the original. Plonker. You can check out the entire 'Sync Race' here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6AukxUlT1Yg.html
I've uploaded a before and after picture to show just how much RU-vid has fucked with the video quality of this from what the original video looked like to the final RU-vid render. It's shocking just how much it's degraded the quality: sta.sh/01frfuxnp9ox
your video just made me go on a very long hunt. I now have the am2 and am3 emulators on my pc and ive figured out through black magic even i dont quite understand how to get my thrusmaster t-150 sim racing wheel to work with daytona usa 1 & 2 scud and sega rally. now i just need a fully enclosed arcade racing cabinet and a crt tv lol
It's a shame, really. The one time they did _everything_ right. Ok, you could say they should've included a DVD drive, but come on. They did everything right, but didn't have the money anymore to back it. The ridiculously amazing games that came out on the Dreamcast just make you wonder what could have been.
Sega continues to sit on a plethora of unreleased-to-home-console arcade games from the late 90's to early 2000's while continuously rehashing their Genesis/ MegaDrive Collection releases ad nauseam. Pure stupidity on Sega's part and frustrating for Sega arcade fans.
According to Tcrf on Daytona USA 2, there's a hidden Dreamcast logo located inside a small hill at the final turn of the Advanced course. Could this mean that Daytona 2's DC port was planned but was cancelled during PE's development which led to the logo being hidden?
Great video, man! The Model 2/3/NAOMI era of Sega arcade games has to be my favorite era. I'm thankful to at least be able to see most of these 3D classics in their full glory on the Supermodel emulator. Although you didn't seem to cover this game in the video, my favorite Model 3 game would have to be Harley-Davidson & L.A. Riders. A Dreamcast port of that would have been sweet, but honestly I think the game was just relatively unpopular and too short (not to mention licensing). Instead, some cruddy US game developers got ahold of the Harley license to make less-than-stellar PC budget titles. It's a fucking shame... :-(
Thanks Paul. Harley Davidson & L.A. Riders was a title that pretty much passed me by back in the old days, I can't really ever remember seeing one in an arcade (mind you, this is also true of a lot of other Model 3 games, like Lost World and Ocean Hunter).
I have been a Sega fan from the early Arcade days, to the Master System, more Arcade, Mega Drive, basically all the time they developed hardware... I got a buzz when I see the Sega logo on a machine.. The biggest issue with Sega in the later days is shitty Management in Japan and the US, Europe maybe.. They just lost there identity and what made Sega a brand in the first place.. It is a big loss in gaming, yes they still create software or licence it, but will never be the same, shame :(
Well, the Dreamcast had more modern 3D effects and APIs but between the ARM based CPU and the PowerVR it was definitely bandwidth and fill rate starved. Conversions usually had lower polygon counts and frame rates were halved. The very fact that there's not a arcade perfect port of Sega GT aka Scud Racer is a crime to all gamers.
While I would loved to have seen Daytona 2 and Scud Race on the Dreamcast, I doubt the hardware was up handling arcade perfect conversions. Not saying this is why Sega choose not to do this, I mean the Saturn had ports of nearly all the great model 2 titles after all. Actually I'd be curious if even modern consoles could handle model 3 games. Judging by your videos those titles seem to be more low res than current titles but some of the geometry on those Daytona 2 tracks is insane!
I don't think the Dreamcast could've done arcade perfect versions of those games, but I think it could've handled ports that would've been pretty damn close (as well as a far better looking port of Sega Rally 2 than the one we ended up with).
DC was actually a bit ahead in raw polygon numbers and effects. But it was heavily limited by memory, fillrate and bandwith, so that was merely a theoretical advantage Model 3 was ROM-based and it's CPU and video processors could directly read from it as fast as from RAM/VRAM (which Model 3 also had in addition). It hade a HUGE momory and bandwith advantage. It is actually amazing how well DC holds up! But then again, several years passed and the process of creating 3D-graphics was far more advanced in DC's later years, so games generally were more advanced from a software developing standpoint.
makes me laugh that the really only good model 3 conversion was fighting vipers 2 a game nobody wanted and was one of the last Dreamcast titles released, great idea sega.
Yeah, typical Sega. Bit like when they produced the graphically far superior to the original Daytona USA Championship Circuit Edition on the Saturn towards the latter half of the system's life span.
Great video. Dreamcast is my favourite console but also the biggest headache aswell with so many missing games that should have been. Emergency Ambulance, Brave Firefighters, Jambo Safari, Dirt Devils, Planet Harriers plus all the ones you mention
I think the problem for the dreamcast was microsoft, not really sony. The "partnership" between sega and microsoft was (in my feeling) an internal destruction of sega for the future xbox profit. Microsoft employees in dreamcast time was on the lead launching of xbox..... conspiracy :P
Sega should've made the Dreamcast able to play DVDs. Also they never should've made that deal with Microsoft. Hackers were able to easily break the Dreamcast system because of Microsoft. That's what killed the Dreamcast
Those arcade racers from the 90s look better than these driving sims we get now. Racing games are designed to make you feel like you're moving fast and Sega did just that. Developers need to realize that realism should not always be the focus.
Regarding VF3, it must be noted that the Dreamcast version of Soul Calibur ended up being superior to it's arcade counter part while VF3 fared worse is because the System 12 board that ran Soup Calibur is significantly less powerful than the Model 3. It's souped up PlayStation 1 hardware. You do however make a good point that VF3's port shouldn't have been farmed out.
Great video as always! I can't speak authoritatively about this because I was in high school when the Dreamcast came out but it's no stretch to say that Sega was in dire straights at the time given their 32-bit debacles. Presumably, in-house development resources were stretched thin to make sure that the Dreamcast -- which was a "make it or break it" move for Sega -- was a success. Console games in the 90's matured a lot during the 32-bit era. They lagged arcades in graphics only. Sega made the right decision avoiding ports of relatively shallow arcade experiences (Star Wars Trilogy in particular was ill-suited for home conversion because it was short, linear, and lacked replay value). That said, the better titles did receive ports (e.g., Crazy Taxi, and Virtual On, which was big in Japan). I always thought that the Dreamcast had a fantastic lineup within its first 12 months with plenty of truly innovative titles (e.g., Jet Grind Radio, Seaman). I've heard it said that Yu Suzuki's Shenmue was enormously expensive to develop and I wonder if this only added to Sega's problems. My belief is that Model 3 had poor price-performance, which limited its distribution and consumer awareness, and console gaming had become far more sophisticated than in the arcades (never mind PC gaming, which had long been a hotbed of innovation). Sega wisely chose to move forward. Now why did the Dreamcast fail? That's a more complex discussion. From my perspective as a high schooler in 2000, the Sony hype machine was no small factor (recall all the hype about the 'Emotion Engine' and having so much spare capacity as to render individual hairs). I'm sure their 32-bit failures continued to haunt them both financially and reputation-wise among third party developers. Perhaps time simply ran out and there was nothing they could do in the face of a perfect storm, despite having what was actually a very capable system with exciting games.
Thanks for the compliment Bart. All good points you raise there. I still personally would have liked a Star Wars Trilogy Arcade conversion myself, although I agree that it potentially could've lacked replay value, but it would've been great a game to make your friends go 'Wow!' when you showed it to them, assuming Sega didn't cock the graphics up in the port of course. Sega had released home versions of a few rail shooters in the past and the Dreamcast did get a few of these games itself, like HOTD 2 and Confidential Mission, and they normally had ways of bulking the content out a bit from the arcade with stuff like survival modes, shooting gallerys and boss rushes and the like, so I'm sure they could have done something similar for SWT (maybe added light gun support as well, although that probably wouldn't have been much use for you guys in North America as I believe the official Dreamcast Lightgun was never released there?)
I never actually owned a Dreamcast so I'm not sure about the lightgun :) I largely stopped gaming in high school, as a matter of fact, apart from emulation. A friend of mine had the system and I remember being wowed by it whenever I went over to his place. For some reason, we played a lot of 'Dead or Alive 2' ;) Another thing that came to mind was the Dreamcast's limited storage capacity. Even had the Dreamcast lasted a bit longer, it would quickly have run into a wall with those gigabyte discs. The N64 had the same problem and although that didn't kill it, it was certainly the reason that the system never had a chance at overtaking the PlayStation. I imagine developers ca. 2000 were even less forgiving given where games were headed. It's quite sad what happened to Sega.
Ha ha! DOA2 was one of the games that got bundled in with my Dreamcast. I knew nothing about it, but suffice to say I was suitably blown away by how amazing it looked the first time I played it.
Wow. I remember trying to get scud race to work on mame. Never heard the sound till supemodel and it blew me away and i really wish outrun 2006 on pc had those daytona /scud race tracks 😐
I still Love Sega. I really miss my Dreamcast. I loved Shenmue and 2K football both really underrated. Yakuza is still my favorite game series. I grew up in the 80's and 90's. I also miss playing Golden Axe, Altered Beast and Star Wars Trilogy in the arcade. Long live Sega.
Hey..... I have an idea.... HOW ABOUT.... LETS TRYING ROM HACKING DAYTONA USA 2001 AND RENAME IT DAYTONA USA 2002, YEEEAAAH, AND REPLACE THOSE 5 "NEW" UGLY ASS TRACKS WITH THE MORE AWESOME DAYTONA USA 2 TRACKS AND MAKE BETTER TRACKS FROM SCRATCH, WOOOOOHOOO, AND REPLACE LIGHTNING, GRASSHOPPER, AND FALCON WITH SCORPIO PLASMA, CHUMS GUM, AND PHANTOM, YAAAAAAAAAA, AND EDIT THE SOUNDS No, seriously, I actually fucking want that to happen, since its actually possible. But FIIIIIIIRST.... We need a professional romhacker... Maybe one day... We might find one man... With such power... With such modeling skills... With great texturing skills... To create a Daytona USA 2 version of Daytona USA 2001.
Coming across a Virtua Fighter 3 arcade machine in the summer of 1998 was the most mind-blowing video game experience I've ever had, in terms of graphics. It was a night and day difference between that and the best that the PlayStation 1, Saturn and Nintendo 64 could offer. I've never experienced a graphical leap as big as that since.
Considering that VF3 came out in Summer '96 in the arcades - two more years earlier! - that's even more impressive. I have to say Soul Calibur is not completely better looking than VF3. VF3 has the more beautiful stages IMO, they are "touchable", closer to the action and interactive! In Soul Calibur, you basically only fight on a flat plane with ring out, and some 3D objects + 2D backgrounds are far in the distance.
According to Toshihiro Nagoshi, he stated why SpikeOut was never ported to the Dreamcast because due to insufficient hardware for a perfect home conversion(SpikeOut is on the XBOX). I also heard on SEGA Retro said there we're rumors of Daytona USA 2 for the Dreamcast as a launch title.
It's funny when the developers start using reasons like 'insufficient hardware for a perfect port' as a reason for not even bothering to try, when in previous generations Sega used to work around those limitations to try and give you the _best_ possible port not a _perfect_ one. Golden Axe on the Megadrive wasn't arcade perfect, but it was so close it made you feel like you were _almost_ playing the arcade version. For me, any additional Model 3 ports to the Dreamcast wouldn't have needed to be arcade perfect, just that they were the best ports available within the limitations of the DC hardware.
Well, I can't promise a Ridge Racer documentary, but I did do some HD video capture of of a few games of Ridge Racer 7 recently, when I had my capture equipment out for another project. Keep an eye out for them (one of them's going to have a 'special' introduction).
I remember playing Daytona USA 2 in the Arcades and thinking how awesome the game is and feeling lucky that I have a Dreamcast because it would at some point be recieving a port. Was very sad that the Dreamcast not only didn't receive many Model 3 ports but also of the games it did get like Virtua Fighter 3 and Sega Rally 2 none of them were quite as good as they could have been
Video Game Developers did not take advantage of how the Arcade Market couldve been perfect place to Let ppl throw $$$ into Game before releasing to console.....
I agree that Daytona USA 2001 for the Dreamcast was a really accurate port of the arcade game. It was a shame that the controls were botched when trying to play the game with the Dreamcast pad, but play it with a racing wheel, and it is surprisingly accurate. It is a shame that they didn't just ad the Daytona 2 tracks to the Dreamcast port. Sega Rally 2 isn't a bad game on the Dreamcast when you use that 60fps code. But yes, I agree it was a shame that the DC game didn't look as good as the arcade original. Not sure why Sega used the Windows CE operating system? But it did hinder the performance of the Dreamcast.
I wasn't gaming from Sept 1996 to around August 2000 so these Model-3 games weren't an issue for me. I was sick of the cost of import games and never actually getting the arcade-perfect ports I wanted. My own 'Holy Grail' was a perfect port of SF2CE. The game did come in 1998 which was years too late - I'd given-up waiting. I think the Dreamcast is/was phenomenal and revolutionary. I wonder how many more amazing games Sega and Capcom could have squeezed-out in a few more years. A port of Initial D Arcade Stage running on VGA would have been nice. It was a real pain going from Dreamcast VGA to PS2 RGB (blurry!!).
An arcade perfect Street Fighter 2 game was one of my holy grails as well, and I finally got one with Street Fighter Alpha 2 on the Saturn. Man I loved that game so much. Played so well with the Saturn 6 button pad too. It wasn't arcade perfect, but I've also got a great deal of time for the Megadrive version of Street Fighter 2 Special Champion Edition. It may not have quite matched the arcade version in terms of visuals or sound, but it played pretty much identically.
I ended-up buying most of the arcade boards in the early 2000's. They were affordable then. I got a Japanese sfzero 2 B-Board for about £65. I also bought myself a very nice candy cab (new, 29'' screen). It's a copy of a Neo Candy 29. Once you've seen jamma games or mame on a good arcade monitor, there's no going back. Sony PVM's are supposed to be excellent too. Since then, I've moved towards racing games but I still enjoy great fighting games like Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown. I see that Initial D Arcade Stage 7 is available to download online. Hopefully, it'll be running soon on Teknoparrot.
Nice! I funnily enough just tonight randomly saw a video update from the Teknoparrot developers showing Initial D Arcade Stage 7 running in the latest not yet publicly released build, so you probably won't have to wait too long.
Great video, keep up the good work! It's always great hearing about the Sega Model 3 arcade board, the graphics it produced was mind blowing when it was introduced in 1996, it's amazing even today. When I got the Supermodel emulator and plugged in my steering wheel, I knew life was good.
The reason why we never saw games like D2 on DC is actually very simple: Due to the financial situation at the time Sega doesn't like to invest so much time on arcade ports (see below). Therefore the cheap Naomi-1 line of products including the DC, which makes quick and cost effective ports possible. These were never 1:1 ports, but ports that looked basically the same, and they were cheap and fast to make. But Model-3 was another story. Beside the (crappy) SR2 conversion, which was great success and indispensable for the japanese launch of the console (and the *only* reason, why they touched it at all), we never saw any other Model-3 racer, and the main reasons (technical on DC, maybe political on later consoles) why it would have taken way too much time for them are: 1. at least on the cars they used non planar quads (I'am not even aware of this till Ian Curtis mentioned it below; but this may be the reason why the EnvMapping in SR2 looked so real compared to the crappy DC's). So if that's true, then possibly they had to built the whole car model from the ground up. All cars on all games. 2. The textures had to be redesigned. Model-3 textures cannot be pulled straight ahead to the DC's texture compression due to the colour levelling nature of VQTC (see SR2). It's no problem if the developer take care about that on a new game, but multicoloured textures (like scud) had to be either redesigned, or splitted in "mono-toned" ones and then multi-textured, or left uncompressed. Otherwise you got more and more washed-out, colourless textures on higher compression ratios. Even the XBox was not able to output it right apparently (Scud and Daytona tracks in OR2), maybe because of S3TC. So if you wanted the same "color brilliance" like Model-3 you better left them untouched. 3. The engine itself (most important issue) would have been a hell of a task. Model-3 used not only Hardware T+L, it also had some kind of simplified "Vertex Shader" for Motion Objects (e.g. Rotary's). All static and almost all dynamic transformation was offloaded to the GPU. Furthermore the Pro1000 has guaranteed that the framerate in MidRes never falls below 60fps no matter what. On the DC the SH-4 had to do all the work on its own (even the XBox doesn't show any animations on the tracks). The development and optimization of such an engine may took more time than the market life span of the DC itself (at least in the eu area). 4. Even if one had the Mesh Data, the textures and the Engine, the DC version would never has been the same as Model-3 in terms of image quality, because the DC had no chance to use its FSAA und FSTF/FSAF or other fillrate intensive effects on *demanding* titles (due to the rip down GPU compared to Naomi). Side Note: There was something going on in 1998 (before the DC's launch), cause allegedly several Coders/Designer have left Sega and were looking for jobs elsewhere in the industry. Maybe that's one of the reasons why we hardly saw the ingenious design of a Scud or Daytona anymore since then (except Outrun2, Sega RaceTV and King of the Road, which were the only titles that breathe a little bit of the glory 90ties, where Sega still was "Worldwide Racing Leader"). Thinking of all the (time consuming) facts, it's no wonder that Sega never take any further Model-3 ports even into consideration. My conclusion: Hire some clever hackers und give them a good amount of time. At some point you get a performance out of the DC that is almost equal to a Model-3 Step 1.5 maybe (without TF and AA). But I don't think that even hackers would approach the performance that is needed to match a Model-3 Step 2. So I think Scud Race is *theoretically* possible, a worthy "1:1" conversion with 60fps and all details of Rally2 or Daytona2 is practically impossible.
Also there is the huge memory and bandwith advantage all Model 3 boards had. In addition to RAM, VRAM and even special RAM for 3d-models, it had huge amounts of mROM for each of those tasks and could directly read from it about as fast as from RAM.
in my opinion. i think arquitecture sega model 3 was diferent of dreamcast , most. 3d engine real 3d GPU sega model 3 optimized... to port conversion to dreamcast lost time ...If sega project 3dfx continue maybe port arcade games was better because engineers Real 3d gpu was friend 3dfx say secret all trick code 3d engine run best possible future home console of sega...but Sega again cut relationship all american company , go only Japanese projects ... have bad decision use Power Vr gpu on Dremcast...
I always wondered why scud race never came out and why the showed sega Saturn logo while racing on the first stage. Also wondered why virtua fighter 3 was originally intended for Saturn with an expansion pack
Nice video. I wish you talked more about how hard it is to find Scud race machines in arcades now. A lot of 1990s arcade machines have been retired from most arcades, or even scrapped entirely. These are 30 year old machines. You literally have to hunt in person, ask online, and even look at photos to find specific arcade machines these days. They are getting pretty rare. The arcade machines were not designed to last this long.
Sega of old (1994-2001) was one of the stupidest companies I've ever seen. This is coming from a Sega fan who saw SOJ fuck over SOA from hardware, to Sonic titles.
Thanks, glad you liked it. I think Ferrari F355 is an excellent conversion and a great looking game, but it's just one that I'm not a huge fan of as I'm just not that into sim racers. Arcade racers all the way for me.
For Star Wars at the time Lucas Arts licensed on a game by game basis. The license for the overarching franchise wasn't available to any publisher at the time.
Great video, after Daytona was ported to Dreamcast, there's no reason why a decent port of Scud Race wasn't created. As for the Porsche license, I'm sure Sega could've approached Ruf for their license. Ruf appeared in a few games where the Porsche license wasn't available (Gran Turismo for example). I think it was EA who had the license as they released NFS Porsche Unleashed around this time.
31:30 How did you get the audio from the original Daytona USA in the Dreamcast version? Is it a secret in the actual game, or did you just add it in post?
It was a modded version of the game I downloaded years and years ago. I've got it as an image file (I can't remember what the Dreamcast ones are called) I can play on an emulator and an actual physical copy burnt to CR-R I can play on my Dreamcast.
Did you actually see StarWars Arcade (Model 3) in England? Sega Bass Fishing, Fighting Vipers 2, Virtua Fighter 3, Sega Rally 2, Dynamite Cop and Daytona found a port.
Yup, I played on it a few times back in the day. There's actually a retro arcade in the centre of my city that's got a SWT Arcade cabinet, but it wasn't working last time I went there. You can see it this video here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xeVpe5MxRDM.html
It would have been awesome if Star Wars Arcade would have been included in a full fledged Star Wars game on Dreamcast, maybe as a bonus or as an arcade compilation.
Indeedly, would've been awesome if Sega did a compilation of this, the Model 1 game and Star Wars Racer Arcade. Add in some light gun support as well as a nice little bonus alternative to the joystick controls and we'd have been on to a winner.
Wow! Great video. I don't watch long videos on RU-vid how ever this video made me sit down in front of my TV and Cast your video. You may think I'm weird to say this but this is THE best Sega history video I've ever tv seen. You did a fantastic, fantastic, fantastic good on this video. Great jod. 👍
You're very welcome brother, but thank you for all you research and for hitting the nail on the head on explaining what happened with Sega Super GT (Scud Race) and all those Model 3 games. Now I can show this to all my friends that were Sega fans (arcade and console games) and get some "closure", lol.👍😃🎮
Oh and another thing, I own OutRun2 and I never paid too much attention to it but now that you pointed out that it had special stages taken from those Model 3 games, I'm a go and unlock them, thanks again boss.👌
Possible that Star Wars Trilogy arcade was left out from ports simply because it was from the original trilogy and not Episode 1 The Phantom Menace. That movie came out in theaters around the same time.
Hrrrm, could be a possibility I guess, sounds feasible. I think one of the first times I played SWT arcade was on a trip up to London to see The Phantom Menace. Ah, happy days...
@@MrThunderwing Obviously, I like Sega's arcade racers over any sim racer. It's just that for some reason, Forza Horizon hits that sweet spot for me. Just thought I'd share that.
I still have no idea how the homebrew guys have not gotten some of these games ported. Like steal some models from Lemans, f355 challenge, and other gamed and make a engine based off of some later dreamcast games like Lemans, crazy taxi or some game that ran well. I also wanna strangle sega for trying to change from being the arcade porters. That litteraly was your thing you fools. Like I may have not been born during the sega console era but when I think sega consoles I thing ports
Great vid. For me, Sega's shit started back with Power Drift. I wanted a version so bad on Mega Drive. Of course it would have been rubbish, but they could have at least tried - we had a great C64 version, an ambitious Amiga one, a fairly playable and roughly authentic looking PC Engine one, but nothing on Sega's own bloody system. Then the Mega-CD comes along, with sprite scaling, and an announcement in the mags that Power Drift is coming out on CD, but still nothing. Then the 32X, they re-release Space Harrier and After Burner and still no f*&$king Power Drift. Of course I found out decades later that the Saturn got a version in Japan but we'd all switched to PlayStation by then.
I found out years after my Saturn had gone into storage in my parents attic that one of my gaming holy grails had also had a Japan only release - Chase HQ. This was back in the days before I'd figured out how emulators worked and I wanted to play it so badly I ended up getting my Saturn out of storage, buying an Action Replay adaptor for it and then purchasing a Japanese copy of Chase H. Q, off eBay. Imagine my disappointment when it turned out it wasn't arcade perfect... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rTkD2J02xic.html
Watched the whole thing while working on my driving cab! Honestly I would have been happy if the Dreamcast was only arcade ports. That's still the thing I like the most about it. Power Stone, The Last Blade 2 and Metal slug being a couple examples... Def would have like to see more Model 3 love though. Great video as always!
I had a friend who used to work for Sega and got a free Dreamcast that for some reason was clear blue and would run games from all regons (never tried any back ups in it so not sure about them) and as great as it was I'd say it was a fair bit away from the power needed to run perfect model 3 games. The driving games deffinatly played better with the DC steering wheel which I also blagged for free! good times!!!
Cool. You can actually run CD-R burnt backups from any region on a regular stock Dreamcast with no need for any soft mods or chipping. I think it was something about the use of the Dreamcasts GD-ROM technology that meant it was open to this exploit (or something).
Great vid. I also feel like Namco has fallen victim of the same business strategy, ever since they were bought out by Bandai they have completely forgotten about their 90s arcade games. I'd love to see an Ace Driver Victory Lap port someday, or even Cyber Cycles
advanx Cheers Ryan! Yeah, I only played the demo of Ridge Racer unbounded, but that was enough to convince me it wasn't for me... At least the awesome Deadstorm Pirates, Time Crisis 4 and Razing Storm came out on PS3.
Fighting Vipers 2 and Star Gladiator 2 also looked better than VF3 Sega had a lot f things to worry about back then, the gamer scene was changing, casual gaming was growing and new gamers where now playing videogames (gran turismo is the perfect example actually) and Sony was raping them on a daily basis, they didn`t had time nor the money to port EVERYTHING and they didn`t had the money to re release those fuck ups like sega rally 2 or VF3 (like they did with daytona on saturn for instance). So, you are being too harsh for a console that gave us like 60 perfect arcade ports VS 3 rushed arcade ports.
I'Ve Been Watching Quite A Lot Of Video Game History Videos Lately. Now I Understand Why The Sega Genesis Was The Way It Was And Why Its Version Of Of Popular Arcade Games Were Never Arcade-Perfect. Its Whole Design/Architecture Was Based On A Dated Arcade Board From The Late 1980S!
What a wasted oportunity for Dreamcast, there are tons of Model 3 games that could been ported like Dirty Devils and Harley Davidson, what a shame for Sega...
If you have been following my thread on quad poly emulation, you should have seen that in scud they modeled the cars with quads, including non planar quads which it turns out are almost impossible to draw correctly with triangle rasterizers. It can be done by brute force, by tessellating the quads into many triangles, but it's not a great solution. I think when testing I increased the number of triangles by a factor of something like 10, to get the texturing to look correct. The other solution would have been for sega to go back and just completely re-model all the cars into triangles. But that's a fair bit more work than is usually done for a straight port.
Hmmm, most of the technical terms are a bit above my pay grade there Ian, but I get the gist of what you're saying. Surely completely remodelling everything from the ground up wouldn't have been that unusual in a port back then though? I'm assuming that in the pre-Dreamcast days the graphics for all the cars and backgrounds for conversions of Model 2 games to Saturn (and Virtua Racing to Megadrive and 32x) would have been done completely from scratch?
Ian, converting any strictly quad poly model(ie all of its polygons are four points each) should just double the count when converting to triangles (basically one quad=2 triangles). Sega as you noted, was mainly using quads back in the 90's (I recall reading the Saturn used quads as well) so their workflow probably did not have a need to convert their objects to triangles, but most commercial 3D programs of the day were capable of the process. 3D programs nowadays generally do have other options for creating smooth(er) objects through subdividing; the higher the factor, the smoother and more dense(higher poly count). When modelling with quads, one typically goes through great lengths to avoid non planar quads (I've worked with 3D software on Amiga, Mac, SGI and PCs), it is not something you try to do intentionally. If Sega's 3D objects from the Model 3 era were using non planar quads it's because they had no other choice. segaretro.org/Sega_Model_3 segaretro.org/Sega_Dreamcast/Technical_specifications These are links to the specs for the Model 3 arcade board (Scud GT ran on version 1.5) and the Dreamcast. The DC seems like it would have been capable of a respectable port of Scud GT. The DC had other capabilities (bump mapping, anisotropic filtering...) that might have required they (Sega) rethink how they approached making the game for the console.
vf3 came out way before soul calibur and dead or alive 2, so it's no surprise it didn't look as good as the others. SEGA probably should have built a new fighter possibly using the virtua fighter engine that was easier to pick up and play and contain more flashy effects and special moves at launch. It's still really unfortunate that sega didn't place importance in porting their arcade titles to a standard that was at the very least on par with the arcade. This would have given them something to promote in their marketing too, as you pointed out this was not the possible with any of their previous consoles.
Ridge Racer on the Playstation was nearer to it's arcade counterpart than Daytona USA was on the Saturn. Ridge Racer on the Playstation was not an arcade perfect port but it was fairly faithful conversion. The Saturn version of Daytona USA on the other hand was a piss poor port as it failed to bring the arcade experience into the home, it didn't look much like the arcade nor did it play much like the arcade.
Indeed, I remember thinking back in the day that Ridge Racer looked so much more faithful to the arcade version than Daytona USA did and, again, on a system that cost £100 less than the Saturn. When I eventually jumped ship from the Saturn to the PS1 many years later, Ridge Racer Type 4 was one of those games that just totally blew me away with how good it looked and the fact it came with the 60fps Ridge Racer Hi-Spec demo was just the icing on an already pretty awesome cake. I loved my Saturn but there's no doubt the PS1's 3D pissed all over it, you only need to look at WipEout 2097 running side-by-side on both systems to see the difference. (Cool RU-vid name BTW - "Can you fly Bobby?")
Yes I agree. At that time Daytona USA was a $15,000 arcade board, the Ridge Racer 1 arcade machine was pretty much a cabinet with a Playstation in it, the hardware of the Sony console and the Ridge Racer arcade board was quite similar. The only reason the Playstation received near arcade perfect ports of games like Tekken and Soul Blade was because the hardware of those arcade boards were almost identical to that of the Playstation. It would be many years before a home computer or console was able to come close to Segas Model 2 arcade hardware, the 1999 Sega Dreamcast consol was the first time I saw something similar in the home.
Having a good swear can be a pretty cathartic experience and Sega's mishandling of these arcade classics that never got home ports is something I feel very strongly about. This was something like the 2nd ever video where I was talking to camera and this was all entirely unscripted and off the cuff. I tend to only pepper my videos with a little bit of profanity nowadays, generally on topics I feel very passionately about. Having said all that though, I don't think there's an excessive amount of bad language in this - certainly nothing you wouldn't hear in my local pub on an average weeknight.
Just as well we can play model 3 games on the pc with the handy super model emulator, its very good and most of the games rub flawlessly, Virtua fighter 3 is still my favourite m3 game is awsome and plays spot on on the emulator and a sega saturn usb controller
Nothing went wrong. I always thought hat by the time I owned the Dreamcast,I thought Dreamcast was more Powerful than model 3, but it was not. Maybe was equal or a bit better than model 3 step.1.0. But not better than 2.0 or 3.0. Maybe sega didn't want to release ports from 2.0 or 3.0 games because of shame.
That doesn't make any sense though amigo, by that reasoning they'd have never released any Saturn or Megadrive or Mastersystem games, if they were embarrassed that the hardware couldn't handle it. The Dreamcast could've handled a decent looking port of Scud Race and Daytona USA 2.
Scud race or sega super gt here in the US is by far my favorite arcade racer.i got it to run really good on the supermodel emulator, it really scratches that itch! Great video
I think we should look at the "dreamcast is so powerful" statement with a grain of salt.First, it is a real leap from the 32 bit machines,but a lot of n64 late games looked a lot like the first batch dc games (with low frame rate )So my point is the dc is an advanced console for 1999, but the model 3 was so much more powerful,even comparing with the naomi.Ofc,sega could port the games to fit on low spec hardware,noneless this is a real issue,since the early shit ports from model 2 to saturn.My point is sega arcade hardware were so advanced (and pricey) that it took years to the game run more or less equal on consoles.Take Out run for example: the first arcade perfect port was on the saturn, say 7-8 years later? and we are talking about the system 16 board (i think)
After all these years and the closest thing we've have is now the recent Like a Dragon Gaiden (man who ereased his name) now features Daytona 2 finally something. Still no Scud Race.
I never could understand why sega toke so much bad decitions in a lot of games, but I mean a LOT! especially in convertions.. it seems to be intentional.. well there is very dead so. It was good but it was suicidal by itself..
Hopefully we will get scud race on modern gen home consoles in the future I really want Sega to port outrun sp on Xbox One and the graphics would look great in 4k
the fact we are still watching sega games says it all . sega your strengths were always world class arcade games full stop . you had a small window to release inch perfect conversions ( scud race / daytona 2 / sega rally 2 / FV2 / VF3TB ) IF and i do mean IF theyd released these , it would have satisfied sega fans like ourselves , and give strong arguement to have a dreamcast . instead they made mistake after mistake trying to be sony , which they are not , and neglected their own strengths , even now its upsetting to think how they blew it .
Not really Model 3 related but with Hydro Thunder and Rush 2049, it would have only made sense for a Dreamcast release of California Speed and/or Cruisn' games but no. I would have also liked to have seen a home version of the Harley-Davidson game. Maybe even CART Fury that ended up with a port to PS2.
Stinger2578 Hydro Thunder was the first game I got for my Dreamcast (other than the ones included in the deal I got). I'd never played the arcade version, but I'd heard good things about it and it certainly didn't disappoint.
I don't think the dreamcast could handle a perfect port or Model 3 titles at all. The dreamcast/naomi hw was not powerful than model 3, not even equal.
They were short on time for Dreamcast's launch in Japan and the Saturn's development was shot dead. The Model 3 arcade games were great. The ports were not.
It's funny, re-watching this myself the other day ( I'm a narcissist, I like to hear myself talk) I was struck by the similarity in how certain bits of the two games look and made me think that perhaps I should've done a bit of head-to-head comparisons between the two.
Sega were their own worst enemy. Just a comedy of errors, bad decisions and worst of all, a complete lack of respect for their IPs in the home market. No wonder they lost so many fans.
