It's been a very long time since I've seen a decent 61 Dodge two door Phoenix or Polara. Over time, they've become a car I shoulda', woulda', coulda' sought out as their body lines appeal to me greatly. Thanks for giving this particular Mopar a well done video...complete with the realities of bustin' knuckes and fingertips.
The injury to Jamie's digits is what kept me from getting serious about auto mechanics. I had done some repairs to brakes and shocks in my time so long ago, but wrenching on an engine was something I steered clear of as I was too much a 'sissy' I'll admit when it comes to pain.
The outboard taillights are kinda nifty in my opinion. Also, that dash with the "wingtips" below the speedo are really odd, yet so fitting on that car.
They were so ugly that they got Virgil Exner fired. Elwood Engel was hired from Ford to replace him. The Phoenix convertible has added tail lights after the original ones were almost invisible to following drivers causing a number of rear end collisions.
Stuck at work on Saturday morning, what better way to start the day! Commenting before I even watch the whole video, just going to assume cool shit happens.
Big fan of Virgil Exner's designed cars, love the fin designs, especially the 61' Plymouth Fury. My 64' Dodge 880 has got the 361 also, damn good motors. Appreciate the look at the Early C body Dodges, from my view, a rare platform to come across at local events/shows.
@@peterruddick1952 I apologize & I stand corrected, indeed 1960, I suppose the various vids I watched on it were mere typos and the like. Calling it 61' instead of 60'
I think it's amazing how they paid attention to the detail and the style of vehicles back then cause all the lines and everything is what made em so unique in their own way..I don't think I could've ever came up with the ideas of how they wanted em to look back then cause I use to love drawing car's that just popped in my mind but none of the ideas I had came close to what the people that designed em came up with..Engine's that hasn't run in 4ever I always used 2 cycle gas to hopefully get em goin again cause I always thought it'd help lube the top of the pistons and cylinder walls. I've changed the oil out with not so expensive oil and I'd pull the distributor to pump the oil pressure up and hope they'd fire up lol..You gave it your best shot and banged your knuckles and fingers in the process, that's a plus and I figured it fire up but some of em will and some won't. It'd make a good project for someone that's 4sure cause I 4get about alot of vehicles that use to be on the roads in the 60s and 70s..
Glad to see someone young saving these old Chrysler products. the ones from the early 1960s kinda looked spooky cool definitely unique.keep up the great work I just subscribed 👍
Those cars are so homely they're cool. It's only been in recent years that I've come to appreciate them. I've never been a fan of the 361. 383's were being produced at this time and seemed to be a better engine...certainly more powerful. I never could figure out why Papa Chrysler wanted to produce a smaller version. Seems like it would have been cheaper to just do one. Anyway interesting. Id.
Right. And they kept that up for quite a while - my early production ‘66 Charger was among the last cars with a 361. They kept making them into the 70s for use in trucks. I have no idea why. Tom was sure this car would have a 383. He thought Polara was 383 only. Meanwhile, I had already looked at the ID pad and found the critical “36” designation.
@@DeadDodgeGarage The 318 (which replaces it) was a far better engine, and if you wanted to tweak it you could squeeze out 400 HP . The 361 was an outlier very few inferior Chrysler engines. (before the 1980's)
I think those cars had two different quarter panel and taillight styles in 61 depending on the model. The frenched taillights on yours is indicative of a high trim level.
Yep - that rocket tail light is Polara only. The overall quarter design is very similar, if not actually the same. Apparently the trim is different though - the higher line Polara trim is more lines in it, or something.
@@DeadDodgeGarage The quarter maybe the same stamping but the Polara has the frenched in taillights while the lesser models have the taillights in the panel below the decklid.
You look like a guy a raced in 1987. His name was George and he had a ratty looking 68 Dart GT 340 automatic, 410 gears. I had a 69 big block Corvette, 4-speed, 410 gears. I only beat him by half a fender!That Dart was REALLY QUICK!made me a believer!😂
Thanks for helping me ID a car! There is one of these at a local junkyard thats actually a police car...still has all the "Police package" parts on it black with white doors...and its super solid...been thinking about brining it home.
With regard to the paperwork problems, I hear that the so-called 'Vermont Loophole' is now closed, which sucks. I am sorry this one didn't pop off; I was rooting for you. Hopefully it has a future. I was really tempted by a C body last week (1970 Sport Fury). Need to stop looking at cars online.
I love your '61's! My own '61 is a Pioneer 2-door post Slant car that is not cursed with the auxiliary tail lights that your PHX vert has. I guess that was a mid-model add-on because the small low lights weren't very visible (true story). They offered these lights as dealer-install items for the earlier cars. There are no shortage of NOS sets of these on FleaBay.
That’s so cool. There is a white ‘60 two door (Seneca with a post, I think) at the “Mopar Ranch” I featured in a video earlier this year. It’s really rough, but pretty awesome.
I hope you'll take care of this car even though its definitely a 'not for me' style. Most Mopars clicked in for me in 1964, and while I love nearly all the late 60s to 1973-76 (and a few after that), the fuselage Chryslers are my epitome of beautiful lines and elegance, but that '61 is cool in its weirdness and deserves to live and run again.
This one definitely isn’t in my sweet spot for style either, but I do like it a lot - and it’s super solid. It definitely deserves to live. My handle on FABO was “70sABodies” and that has always been my happy place. Obviously I love lots of B bodies as well - but my real interest has always been in that 64-76 range. I fell in love with the ‘55 Chrysler though. And I can find the appeal in these weird machines between those two points.
Well now, I was put into the WayBack machine when you showed the 64 wagon, my uncle traded in his pride and joy 59 Buick Invicta convertible for a new wagon, cause kids.... remember riding in it on a 200 mile family reunion trip.
I have a video on reviving that car! It’s big block powered. Perfect period race car tow rig… it has been sold and is awaiting shipping. The last time I had it running, it allegedly puked gas everywhere and caught on fire - leading to at least one recurring joke found in this video.
@@DeadDodgeGarage I'll definitely find that video and watch it, don't know what engine was in my uncle's car, what impressed me was it was brand new and shiny, our family never had a new car...
I support you and your quest for global dominance! My dad had a '60 Phoenix, and it was the first car that I there are pictures of me in it. I like their front end better than the '61, but to each their own.
‘60 definitely has a look to it. I dunno, I like straight and understated lines. Not that any other line but the grille on the ‘61 is straight or understated…haha.
A great thing with old Mopars is pretty much ANY Mopar V8 starter from then until in the 80's or even the 90's will fit it so a replacement starter to get it going should not be a problem. I had a 60 Phoenix and currently have a smaller Dodge --- 63 Dodge 440 with the 318 Poly. A friend now has my old 60 Phoenix and also a 61.
I just saw some really nice Polaras at The Chrysler Nationals yesterday, but not one like this unless I missed it, very cool. I wore my DDG t shirt there to "represent" as they say and I noticed it seem to garner a lot of attention. Even my wife said to me "So many people are reading your shirt". Car shirts are normally super busy, DDG shirt is basic, large font, catchy name. BTW, the sneeze almost made me spit out my coffee. Ill post a photo on your FB merch post, in all my goofy glory.
That convertible's upper set of rear lights were a later fix of the lower sets placement. Mid-year if I remember correctly. They were set too low to be seen so the upper set were used. Those cars also used the 383 with 2-4 Ram Induction as an option. Think the 4-speed was available.
Interesting. I know dual quads were available on long rams. Apparently ten ‘61 Polaras were so equipped. If there was a four speed available it was some weird french thing. The Chrysler four speed was available starting in ‘64.
@DeadDodgeGarage Pont-A-Mousson, I believe, what it was called on the '61-'62 letter cars, it was French. Ram induction was where the 4bbls were hung over the valve covers. It was something to see! In '66 I saw a power blue '60 Dodge Phoenix convertible, white top, equipped with the ram setup. Always wondered what happened to it. White bucket interior too.
@DeadDodgeGarage it was the French tyranny used on, I believe, the only so-equipped letter car made in '60. It was hyped as the million $ car b/c only 1 was made.
Yep! That is just exactly how I start up fire up Every single morning... A ton of race gas coffee then some starting fluid with something really super sweet and I just might start firing on all 8 cyl...
I appreciate you trying to save these cars 🚗 🙏 Absolutely 💯 love the Virgil Exner Era , Mopars . Never see these anymore . I would love too see you , resurrect this one from the , mechanically undead rhelm , And make it road worthy again
Interesting that the dash on the convertible is identical to the 63 Dodge Custom 880. I had one of those in convertible form a long time ago. The interior was also red.
There’s a reason for that! And I’m guessing the reason is… they had them left over? I’m not sure actually. But along with the ‘61 Dodge nose, the mid year ‘62 880 also got the ‘61 Dodge dash. For whatever reason, the 880 stuck with that basic dash through ‘64, although the cluster was updated in ‘64. The 880 was built one more year - ‘65 - when it shared the dash as well as just about everything else with the full size Polara.
I remember when I was a young boy thinking the 61 dodge was a ford, really different grille for a dodge at the time. But as I got older I came to love Virgil Exner's styling! 61 was a kinda strange styling year for the big 3, they were all kinda out of place and different compared to the year before and after.
Right. Much like early 50s cars - stuck between the tall, stodgy styling of the pre and immediately post war era, and the lower, longer cars that were to follow. I really love ‘55 Chryslers, and in my view the more Exner did from that point, the weirder it got - until the ship was finally righted with simplicity, conservative design, straight lines, and… honestly some boredom. Then ‘67-‘68 happened and everything was awesome for a bit there. Haha.
Owned a 61Dodge Polara Convertible 383. Bought it from a woman (in 1968) who had upgraded to A Monaco. About the only thing that car couldn't pass was a gas station. The car was in great shape, and I gave the woman $300 for it. The last hundred was a coffee can full of change. It had thirty-seven + thousand miles on the odometer, and although the car was a convertible, it had an air conditioner. Chrysler was one of the few car companies (maybe the only one) which made their own air-conditioning systems. BTW Chrysler's "downsizing" of the early Sixties (64. 65, 66 was short lived. The 68 Monaco was huge, as were the early Seventies high-end models. Thanks for the vid and the memories. Wish I'd kept that car. Hope you get yours running!!
The downsizing came in ‘62 for Dodge and Plymouth. Dodge almost immediately got the 880, a recycled Chrysler body with a Dodge nose, but Plymouth didn’t get a big car again until ‘65. That downsizing gave us the B body, which stuck around alongside those humongous boats and underpinned some great cars - like the Charger, Roadrunner, etc.
I love this 61 body It got me subscribed hope you will do more with her spun bearing and all.. Gee if you pre lubed it you would not have had that happen JK lol . That's nonsense. Thanks for sharing this 😊
I actually just found a broken ring in another engine that did someone very similar to this. One way or another, given some time, I could get this thing figured out. I hope to do more with it soon.
A valiant effort (pun intended) but it was probably junk before you ever laid a wrench on it. I'm a big Exner fan, especially the incredibly odd '61's. I haven't seen a can of Chrysler Heat Riser lube for years. I started using it as an all purpose penetrating oil in the 1970's and never came across a fastener it couldn't break loose. I called it "torch in a can", but it got so I couldn't find it at any MoPar dealer parts departments anymore about 20 years ago. In fact, the parts guy at my local dealer just flat GAVE me the last six cans of it that he had on the shelf back then and I think it was discontinued after that.
All the good stuff was… alas. It seems to work really well! Tom cleans out old dealerships across the country and has come across a good few cans. I like a lot of his designs - but things sure got weird. Haha.
You should have pulled the valve covers- standard B engine Mopar, and checked for stuck valves - or did you individually check each cylinder for any compression ??
Neither of those operations is worth the time it takes in this case. Half of the valves could be stuck open and it wouldn’t do what this engine did. I’ve talked a lot about why I don’t do compression tests.
Sounded like it was bound up when you started cranking it. Probably the reason it was parked/junked. Never ever seen a bearing grab from just cranking. You need combustion pressure forces which act on the loose clearances and hammer the insert. Even if they were dry, they're Babbitt which won't weld to steel. It'll just wipe. I probably would have pulled the valve covers and hosed down the valve train with some lube though. The valves can stick and hit the pistons. Sometimes you can use fogging oil in the oil fill or pvc openings instead of pulling the covers. I think because of the starter draw it was dragging the voltage too low to get a really decent spark.
Yes, I am thinking the same at this point. It was probably already goobered. Starter draw was a thought I’d had to - but I checked and had spark at the plug end of #1 wire while cranking at one point. And was getting that kickback when timing was too advanced. It’s just odd that it was turning perfectly free when I first got it rolling, and then wasn’t after a few attempts. Listening back to all of the video I got after the fact, it was apparent that it had been doing that most of the time. Valvetrain was a thought, but the fact that it turned two revolutions with zero tough spots after I broke the rings free told me I was probably fine there, and if it had lit off they would’ve had lubrication in a hurry. I would really like to know what’s hiding in the oil pan now…
Makes me wish I had kept my 61 Seneca. I got it free via barter system helping another car guy save his 69-70 Corvette aluminum big block from getting seized by a landlord for the guy “forgetting” to pay his shop rent in Big Timber, Montana. I did not fully appreciate the aesthetic Lind’s of the Seneca so I donated it to a local father/son project . . . but then the son joined the Army Rangers and headed to the big desert across the pond for some “on the job” training. So the father, instead of letting me know his son left the country, sold the Seneca. Wish he would have told me so I could give him back ALL of his money (ZERO) and get it back. Lesson learned . . . no good deed goes unpunished.
As I said below, I recommend looking at the exhaust but really oiling up the top end as much as you can. Is it also possible that you might have slipped a tooth or two on the timing chain? I know you are feeling top dead center and seeing that on your timing pointer, but if there is a tooth or two off it may SEEM like TDC but the valve train is off. That car could have been parked because of a timing chain issue years ago. Also, if it was a nylon chain, bits of plastic could have fallen into the oil and created some oil blockage via plugged pick up in the pan, making the engine run "dry". I am trying to think of all angles for you!
Totally possible. My evidence pointing to the timing most likely being ok is the fact that the distributor rotor pointed right at the factory cap tower position for #1 when aligned with piston #1 reaching TDC. That doesn’t really mean anything, as someone could’ve had the distributor drive out. But it doesn’t seem like the engine had been apart any time recently, or ever. Just as an addendum to that thought - the chain could slip at least a tooth or two and still run. A friend proved that by installing his *several* teeth off somehow, and running the engine like that for some time. Another friend’s Dart Swinger went off a sweet jump and the chain jumped a tooth or three right then. I cranked the distributor timing to compensate, and it ran that way for… like a year or two actually. Not that it was driven every day or anything. One day it finally jumped far enough that it wouldn’t run anymore. I definitely appreciate your thoughts. Until I get to the bottom of why the crank no longer turns without resistance we don’t know what the actual failure here is. I would say it’s even likely that the car was laid up for a mechanical issue. But it definitely ran with the fresh plugs that had been put in it decades ago, so that makes me think it couldn’t be too horribly screwed.
@@DeadDodgeGarage I wish you the best of luck. Please keep us posted to see how it all shakes out. I love the car and your attitude. These ALL need to be saved. My next project is my 1969 AMX, which I bought non-running over 25 years ago! Got it running, even drove it around for a while. It has been sitting after its rare fuel pump went out (it is a Trico, and it runs the air powered windshield wipers, if you can believe that!). Finally going to get it running again. When it runs, it is a strong 390 and really goes. After that, it is brakes, interior, bodywork and paint. It was a car that was damaged but worth saving too!
I've watched since he was in his oil garage. Still love it. I like to see the variety he puts out. If you just rescue cars, what will you do with them all?
@@danvetor1365 I like the variety too. At the same time mopars are my favorite when it comes to the old stuff. All of the American manufacturers made great old cars, but mopars have a special place with me.
I dunno, did you watch the video? I have since seen an engine with rusty gunk packed into the rings that did almost exactly what this one did. I suspect that is the actual issue causing it to be so difficult to rotate.
I had a 58 desoto with the 350 b block with the same issue. Only differnce was it would start fine when cold but if it was hot, I had to wait a couple hours. Finally locked it up after flooring down the freeway a few miles.
The exhaust manifold and tail pipes were not shielded from the starter. When the car ran for a time the starter would get hot and not perform. My Dad welded a little metal shield on the exhaust pipe and fixed the problem on our ‘58 New Yorker. In the early 1960s Chrysler shielded the starters and fixed the problem.
Just a hunch but I have a 61 Phoenix and had the same problem with starting it and I'll explain. The car was running great when I bought it but it needed a good going thru. Tore the engine down so I could mask the engine compartment and paint the block and this is where the issue came up. The FACTORY manual for the timing sequence in 61 is incorrect! The picture of the numbers in the distributor are one off. Mind you I have the 318 poly with the distributor in the back of the engine so I'm not sure about your big block. How I found this out was I was thumbing online and found a Dodge truck manual from I think 64 and it still was using the poly 318 and not the LA 318 and a noticeable difference in the wiring schematic. Change the plug order on it ran like it did when I bought it which was flawless. Didn't see anymore vids on the car so I'm curious on what happened.
Interesting. I’m not sure on A/LA, but on big block, there is a slight difference in wire location for electronic ignition compared to points ignition. In any case, I ruled that out on this thing. Although I got the engine broken free and turning, I think a stuck ring or similar issue was keeping it from turning easily. I say that because I recently had a very similar issue on a 318 poly engine, and after removing the offending piston, the engine cranked over effortlessly. That was a new one for me.
I used to watch Derek all the time, but I lost interest when he hit the Big Time and became commercialized. Don't get me wrong; I think it's great he's providing a good life for his family and all, but it's just not the same.
The show has definitely changed to a degree. Sometimes he’s still doing the same stuff. The guy has millions of followers… I just don’t have half a clue what happens when you get to that level.
@@DeadDodgeGarage At some point his vocabulary schtick started to get repetitious and old. And, he was not a "little guy" any more, if you know what I mean. Similar story with Cleetus. I don't watch either these days.
Something about this design, and the obscure variations of the models: Phoenix, Pioneer, Seneca?, Polara...did I get that right? This body style is oddly compelling, kind of a cross between a 59 or 60 Chev and a Old 300...very unusual. I would love to get one of the more stripped down mods like the Pioneer and put a 413 RB with TorqueFlight with plane Jane bench seat and column shift.
Yes, at least that many. There are so many models. Isn’t Dart on several of those as well? Like I think it’s a Dart Seneca, or something. Or is Dart another separate model? Don’t remember. Yes I really like the look of it, I think. I learned yesterday that there was a small number of Polaras made with cross rams as well. That’s just awesome.
@@DeadDodgeGarage And with the prices they are gettng for some of the Mopars finding one of these and making it you own seems like a cool less expensive project to me. I did see a Pioneer like this came u on Craigz by me last year, but I have another project already.
