The thing that hit me in the chest was a statement from A Whitney Brown: "Being a Christian is like sitting through a movie with your eyes closed in the hopes you'll get your money back on the way out."
@Karl Jansen I believe what it means is that Christians doesn't look at life as it is, and wish to have something afterwards, while they are the only one responsible for the fact they didn't watch the movie. Something in those waters.
@Karl Jansen I'd say the basic gist of it is that a typical christian will ignore what's important in this life (the movie), in the hopes that they can have their happiness in an afterlife (the money back on the way out).
I called into a radio show that Penn hosted from Vegas and was syndicated in NYC back in the early 2000s and apparently, Penn liked the story I was telling so much that he allowed me to tell it over thirty minutes across two commercial breaks. I'm not the type to get starstruck and living in NYC I've seen scores of incredibly famous people walking down the street and have only once stopped one to say hello and ask for a photo (it was Art Garfunkel). But Penn and Teller are exceptional people when it comes to interacting with fans. It's hard to tell that they are the famous ones when speaking to them or meeting them in person. They are incredibly humble to a fault and make it a point to recognize that we are all humans making our way through life. I appreciate that. I love that they make it a point to greet their fans after their show even if I didn't wait on line to meet them. The fact that they do that is great and I even heard Penn once say that they've hung out for hours on occasion so that every fan wanting to say hello got the opportunity. They're genuine people and are uniquely honest.
This was just great. Penn is far and away one of the most thoughtful and compassionate atheist voices there is, in addition to being a fantastic performer.
+Steve Shives Someone largely siding with the American Demo-"left" metaparty line conceding that "Libertarians" aren't inherently sociopathic monsters? Hey, i agree with you, Steve, but don't let some _other_ people hear your blasphemous rumours ;-)
I was startled when Penn popped on screen because I forgot he lost so much weight lol Great interview, Penn has been an idol of mine since I was 13 and delving into reason and skepticism.
Thank you for answering the question about Penn's weight. I was quite concerned that there might've been something wrong. Glad there isn't. He's an amazing performer and a valued resource of the Atheist movement.
That was great Seth! I know that you have wanted to interview him for years now. Congratulations. And thank you very much Mr Gillette for doing thins interview for us.
I never get tired of hearing what Penn has to say. I don't agree with some of it, but his reasons behind his thinking are well thought out and not an emotional whim. Great interview, Seth. So when will Penn interview you on his podcast?
*swoon* Theres something about two intelligent, well-read, clever gentlemen on the same podcast that gets my inner fangirl buzzing and freaking out. Seth AND Penn TOGETHER!? Lordy lordy, be still my beating heart!
+Im Tabe Penn has said before that his political views aren't a result of his skepticism the way that his atheism / psychic debunking / etc is. It's an interesting discussion in its own right, but kind of another topic.
patu8010 Well, I wouldn't go that far, depends on the definitions. You can be a left-leaning voulantarist and you can be a right-leaning voulantarist, but most people that are voulantarists aren't left leaning, if any. But in a sense you are right, let me rephrase that: "Most atheist aren't for smaller government and lean more towards Marxist ideology which is left."
+Im Tabe Penn strikes me as further out than Libertarian...possibly into anarcho-capitalist territory. He comes across as someone who just doesn't want anyone telling him he can't do something. While he argues that people should be allowed to voluntarily engage in any action or contract his views have historical precedent showing this is just not possible. A Libertarian/AC world cuts government overlords for equally unaccountable business overlords. It's a deep discussion to argue which one is better but I personally lean towards "moderate" governance...essentially a free market bounded by abuse-limiting rules... A properly set up government is accountable to everyone while a private business is only accountable to investors in the L/AC system.
On the topic that people are getting less violent...I saw a TED Talk (I think that's where it was) where someone showed a correlation between exposure to lead and violent behavior. A study found that childhood exposure to lead caused, among other things, more violent behavior later in life. Since the switch to unleaded gas and the deliberate efforts to reduce lead in other products like paint, there has been a remarkable reduction in violence.
When I was a kid I remember watching a TV show presented by Penn and Teller for kids in Discovery Kids (Latinamerica) and I was amazed, I wanted to become a magician but most importantly, I wanted to understand. Same case with James Randi, there was only one of his TV specials, the one in which he debunks the asian guy James who blew; those are really magical moments for me.
easy to explain why we have less violence, we are more connected to each other, we can see what happen across the world, we get access to alot of information at our fingertips. I'ts harder to hate the stranger when you see their life is just like your
Apostacon was last year the very first conference I ever went to of this type, Neil Degrasse Tyson was speaking as well as Lawrence Krausse, two people I am a huge fan of. This year has Penn and Teller, again I'm a huge fan and the idea of getting to meet Penn has me crazy excited, almost as exciting as sharing a dance floor with Lawrence which I did last year. I hope Penn and Teller stick around the whole weekend but there are so many great people that I am looking forward to seeing again and a ton more that I am looking forward to meeting. Last year I got to meet so many of my atheist idols/heroes/role models, I don't know what to call these people because they are just regular people who are very well known in this community. But I got to meet Seth and Matt Dillahunty and Aron Ra and David Fitzgerald and so many who now know who I am! Anyway, Love listening to Seth Andrews, just got to see him at Gateway to Reason where he gave a great talk centered on his new book, but doesn't he have a voice like butter! Anyway, Penn and Teller are doing a talk called "An Evening of Magical Inquiry" and hopefully they will do like Tyson and go an extra hour of talk, either way it's going to be great and I am so looking forward to it - Come on down to Dallas! It's going to be quite a party! on top of very informative and interesting!
Loved it ! Your best video yet, Seth. FYI, this is coming to you from Australia and RU-vid in its infinite wisdom has allowed a crowd called marriagealliance.com.au to advertise before the interview. This lot is a ginger ( Christian ? ) group vehemently opposed to same sex marriage. You must be doing something right ! Thought you should know. Cheers.
+TheThinkingAtheist Lol. Google. I imagine the paperclip from Office97, "Hey, it looks like you're researching atheism. Perhaps you might be interested in these OTHER religions!"
I actually just started watching Breaking The Magician Code again (All the episodes are on youtube). I really enjoyed the shows. I don't think it's really all that different than watching Brain Games (which I've been loving lately) where they reveal how your brain/mind takes shortcuts, leading you to wrong answers. I enjoyed trying to figure out how the tricks were done before it was revealed (I almost always can't). Watching magic shows is still just just as entertaining as before. Even though you know it's a trick, you're still left with that sense of wondering how the trick was done. I know Matt Dillahunty is into magic too, and of course he's not going to let you in on all the secrets of the tricks he does. But he does occasionally tell people how things are done if they are convinced he has actual magical powers, using it as a tool to show how easily you can be fooled into thinking something.
Great interview, both of you so intelligent and generous. I almost hate to say, though, I really can't stand the music for the opening and closing. But it's bound to be something you like, so hey...
+nontheistdavid Many believers (and I know this isn't popular with some atheists) are genuinely kind. Some condescend, but some are also sincere and gracious. We have to remember that they're people - many of them good people - who should be seen in three dimensions.
***** I have no doubt that some are genuinely sincere and kind. I would suspect that they are by nature sincere and kind and their Christianity had relatively nothing to do with it.
+TheThinkingAtheist I see just as many atheists being condescending (probably more) online, for example. I have to remind people all the time that a stupid belief is more likely a product of indoctrination (as we all know) than it is the sign of a stupid person, so we should stop calling people stupid
Penna and Teller are my heroes! When I was in Vegas, I stole two bible from the hotel I was staying at in order to get them signed. Both Penn and Teller each signed them both and mine has a nice big "Bullshit!" inside the cover! I gave one to my friend but the other one I use all the time now. I've highlighted a ton of passages that show the hypocrisy of Christianity. Penn and Teller, if you read this, thanks again for signing what has become one of my most prized possessions! You guys rock.
After reading Penn Jillette's book I will never again look at my hairdryer without feelings of empathy while, at the same time, nearly dying of laughter. The poor man's experience was worse then a botched circumcision.
A bit like a "broken record" as we used to say. Lots of repeating of stuff that does not need to be repeated. About ten times longer than it needed to be to get their points across. However, I'm with their concept 100%.
What chance would I ever have to meet a Seth Andrews, Penn, Dawkins or Sam Harris. Seth you are a lucky man! You can't fool me though, I know you would be just as excited as I would to me these people.... He was getting other Skype messages during the conversation, that was the ding.
I'm not sure how "believe" came to mean 'know.' 'Believe''s root seems to be "deeply love (e.g. she says she has never cheated, and I trust she tells the truth because I love her so)."
Gristly-Knuckle said that if you can universally teach people that illusions are tricks, then people will stop believing in and heeding them, and they will go away.
Penn made 105 pounds of himself disappear. I'm tall & somewhat hefty, but that amount of weight loss would kill me! Guys like Penn, who are 6'-6", can carry hard-to-imagine weight. Seth should have asked Penn how he physically felt with his thinner body! The Amazing Atheist should pay heed, and follow suit!
+BigRalphSmith Basically, his doctor told him he could avoid a lot of future health problems if he simply lost some weight, so Penn decided it was worth doing. He lost a lot of weight really fast, so he looks like this.
I like a lot of what he says, but I have a critique: He understands that agnostic/gnostic deals with a different question (knowledge) than atheist/theist (belief), and points out how some people conflate these questions, in saying they are agnostic when asked if they believe. But when he says, "if you don't know, you don't believe" (18:50), it seems to me that he is making the same error: conflating knowledge with belief. Now, like he said, many who believe in a god claim to know (which I think is often merely a bit of overstating the matter in an effort to "have strong faith"), but others who believe don't claim this. In fact it seems to me that inherent in the word "belief" is the implication of not knowing. Otherwise one would just use the word "know", wouldn't they? I think a lot of this confusion comes from the fuzzy lines here; philosophically, we can't know anything absolutely, (except maybe that we can't know anything absolutely?). So, the closest we have to feeling like we know something is very strong belief (whether that belief is well justified, or not). So, people mix the two things up.
+SomethinJustAintRight --- Fair enough; saying anything other than yes or no to the question of belief is answering a question that wasn't asked, and suggests insufficient confidence to claim belief. Thus, atheist. But isn't it possible for someone to answer the question with "Yes, I believe in a deity", and yet admit that they don't *know* the deity exists? I have heard many people take this position. I would argue, in fact, (as he seems to) that philosophically, no one *can* know. And yet, many believe, which seems to conflict with his statement. Am I nitpicking? Perhaps. I was only critiquing his claim that "If you don't know, you don't believe" in the context of his preceding statement(s). Perhaps he meant it in the way you seemed to indicate.... but he preceded that immediately with, "I believe that everyone -- virtually everyone -- is an agnostic." Combining that with his following statement, isn't he saying that he believes virtually everyone is an atheist? I don't think that follows; people can claim the position of "agnostic theist", as explained above. It seems to me that the terms "atheist" and "theist" would become nearly useless if measured by that standard. I know it is an off-the cuff interview, so I can't expect everything to be entirely cohesive, and contextually aligned. I'm sure I wouldn't likely be half as coherent in a live interview. Anyway, I think the question, "Do you believe in a god -- yes or no?" is somewhat broken, because I don't think belief is necessarily that binary. Sure, once a "tipping point" is reached, the slide can often be sudden, but one's confidence level on *any* claim is on a continuum, is it not? Does everyone who gives up a belief go from 100% confidence to none in an instant? Once one drops below 100% confidence, does that mean they now lack the belief? Or is that only when they hit 49% (as if these things can be precisely quantified in such a way)? I'm just musing. Perhaps I am over-analyzing this, but eh-- it's what I do.
great interview so far. although he makes the same mistake as pretending beliefs don't have consequences. I.e equating those who really do believe in the doctrines of Christianity are just "crazy". when in reality they have good intentions but are unreasonable
ThePharphis when he stated in the beginning that people who are "fundamentalists" are just crazy which implies what they accept is a product of some mental disfunction and not being unreasonable and accepting an irrational doctrine. he seems to make some big distinction between a "nice" christian and a mean one. while there are variances, it is entirely possible that an otherwise nice good mannered christian can believe abhorrent immoral things. Which is what he missed
Mario Pendic Oh right, gotcha. This might be similar to his views about Glen Beck. He says he's "crazy but I love him" iirc and I think that what he means by that is exactly what you described: they believe crazy things. Probably just an issue of using a more derogatory term
Back when I was a believer, I watched the program "No Intelligence Allowed." I did not find out until much later that the interview with Richard Dawkins had been so mangled and out of context as to make it look as if he was taking positions he did not actually hold. That was not fair to him, and not fair to me or any other people who viewed that interview. We were being mislead, and I would venture to say that many who saw that video never checked up to see if they were being honest. @ 33:48 Pen looks good had his lower weight. I lost 60 pounds. I used to weigh 210 pounds, now I weigh 150. There are not tricks and no shortcuts. Essentially, and change in diet, and some working out, I was working out with 5 pound hand weights. The change in diet was to eat more veggies, and limit fried food. One key is you have to be able to sustain it. You don't loose the weight and then go back to what you were doing. That was why my mom couldn't keep the weight off. One last thought at the end of this video. It's not work if it's something you love doing.
I always figured the lowered rates of violence is because more people are getting exposed to the entire planet when they DO do violence to others. There's more of a chance of getting caught, charged, convicted, etc. so less people are willing to take the risk. If it weren't for the fact that everyone and their dog and their grandma had a smartphone, I think we'd still have huge violence statistics.
I lost my grandson 4 years ago when he was 17. I just accept the situation now but on significant dates I do a 4th of July Magnum thing. I take myself off so I can be emotional in private. What angers me greatly, and I endeavour not to be angered by things, is when and I never refrain from talking about him when the topic comes up, is when they say "You have to get over it". My response is usually "I am not cold and heartless like you". That usually changes the conversation somewhat. I have some sympathy for deluded people who just want to make people feel better after their loss. But charlatans who make a serious living at it are just snake oil sellers. I have studied quantum mechanics for many years and so I am not a materialist. I think it is evident that consciousness is fundamental. As proposed in the measurement problem. And reality is just information. If consciousness is emergent then anything that has choice is consciousness. It kind of explains a lot of things. I am sorry to waffle on. I am possessed by a Djinn. I mean pissed on Gin. I am also sorry for your loss. My parents are still strangely alive. They are the most disagreeable people you may wish to avoid.
what would be cool is someone like derren brown going to a psychic and telling the psychic stuff about themselves. totally agree about psychics, lowest form of human life.
My favorite Bullshit show was probably the 'Lawns' one. I have always thought that lawns were BS even before I saw the episode and now I think so even more. Bio-diverse property is the way to go!
when it comes to atheist / agnostic i think there's another way of looking at it, it's not that people "don't believe" with me it's "i don't care" i don't care if there is a god or not, not only do i lead my life as if there isn't, i don't (usually) give it a second thought. so to me the question "are you atheist / agnostic?" is like "do you want to have sex for your entire life?" or "will you be gay every day?" how can you discuss something that doesn't exist? it's like dark matter, i've heard of it, but do i have some in my pocket? no. no one has.
+WisdomVendor1 I was thinking the same thing when he was talking about his mom. We know for a fact the memory is flawed. I would bet that we who loved our mom’s, mostly remember the good and forget the bad. But anyone who preys on a persons grief for financial gain deserves to be beaten so badly that they will have a memory that they will never forget.
I like to pretend Penn and Teller really know actual magic and for their big finale they will bring a person back from the dead in front of a huge audience in Vegas before transforming into two doves and flying away forever.
The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
At the Henley Regatta one year I got my palm read by a genuine Gypsy lady in a proper tent and everything. Unfortunately, I was so drunk I couldn't remember what she told me so I have no Idea how wrong she was.
