Law and Home Affairs Minister K. Shanmugam and historian Thum Ping Tjin debate historical accounts leading up to Operation Coldstore on the last day of public hearings on deliberate online falsehoods.
The Minister's questioning was deliberately confusing by compounding multiple concepts together and putting him on the spot to answer yes/no giving him little time to decide the broader implications that the minister intended to draw from these answers. PJ Thum's self-discipline to maintaining his clarity of thought and composure throughout the process is remarkable and is a success in itself. Good job!
Good point Bryan. Simply because Shanmugam is trained as a lawyer and his questions are designed to make him win. But truth is truth and on Judgement Day, I like to see Shanmugam debate with God. See how his lawyer type question/answer can help him on that Day. :)
My question to you Mr cheong , according to modern science, it's been proved multiple times that Earth is spherical in nature but also according to flat earthers, the earth is flat. Therefore according to these 2 perspectives, what is the Earth's shape. Yes or no?
@@lifeneedsmorechill An institution is only as strong as the facts and principles it is built on. Alternative voices will always have a right to express themselves, but some that lack the grounds gain no traction and naturally fade into irrelevance.
He keeps cutting Prof Thum off during his elaboration of a question. I don’t see that kind of behaviour from Prof Thum who is quite a gentlemen I might add. I would like to hear Prof Thum’s explanation, but it’s almost always interrupted by him. It seems like this is a one way street. One party only wants to hear what it wants to hear. No point continuing this conversation.
All these things discussed happened when I was only a young man struggling to survive with my family with a lowly pay. I am thankful they brought these matters up and I get a better perspective of the turbulent time that we went through. Thumbs up to PJ Thum for standing up to the grilling sitting down.
Dr Thum I am proud of you as a fellow country man. U have the balls to stand up to bullying! Is this really what this country about ??!! Darn this is such a shame !!!
Shanmugam is doing what Lawyers are paid to do, he has several objectives one of them is to discredit the qualifications of PJ Thum, by strictly sticking to a “Yes”, “No” , he’s trying to discredit Thums credibility as a Historian. Doing that he’s one step closer to demolishing Thum’s testimony & work on this issue. Then establish that Thum’s work is false & therefore cannot stand. You are watching a very skilled lawyer at work. I must hand it to Thum, he’s alert, consistent and sticks to his narrative. His objections & disagreements to statements from Shanmugam lays as consistent a view with regards to Thum’s viewpoints that were published in his writings on this subject.
Why Shanmugam can’t let the scholar finish his statement before interjecting? The flow of thoughts is regularly interrupted. I think the meeting is out of order and I’m quite surprised that the chair didn’t put it back to order. It’s very disrupting to audience trying to follow through the thoughts.
Would he allow LKY to explain all the things he said during the inquiry into the Nassim Jade & Scotts 28 episode...??? No lah!!! he will allow him to sing like a canary
the chair is a lily-livered fool no different than the milo mascot installed in the istana. These people has no sense of shame as they have in its stead, stashed full of money.
@@lamsunyong343 I am sure historical facts cannot be established by Shan who is clearly a PAP minister and controls this debate in an authoritarian way.
Dr Thum easily survived 6 hours of microscopic examination by a SC. Dr Thum is not legally train. But he managed to outsmart SC Shanmugum who used dubious tactics like coercion to corner him. Shame on the minister who come across as behaving like a thug.
Depends on what you mean by survived... and I dont think that Shan was using coercion (to persuade someone by force or threats).. he simply pointed out that there are inconsistencies in his statements 1. He claims that Chin Peng is not a reliable source and yet he relies on it 2. He hasnt read all the records on this topic and being a historian he isnt familiar with all the material is very strange.. he claims there are thousands of documents at 1.12.00 mark and therefore he cannot have gone through them.. that is not good academic practice at all.. 3. The reason why Shan wants him to give a yes and no answer is two pronged.. 1. it is a matter of style to know his view and then his explanation which he allowed him to do so on multiple occasions and 2. to stop him going back to explanations which have been debunked already previously
@@shaunlee8425 No. What was inferred was that Chin Peng is not a reliable source - quote carefully, take with a pinch of salt. 2. You have read many things, can you quote senstences and references by heart? Not even sham. he reads off a transcript. all the mps read off a transcript in Singapore. What a waste of time. 3. It is not a matter of style (if u would call a bludgeon or a dagger styles). It is a tactic to corner the ignorant and faint hearted into a corner like what sham said ""by trying to be precise, we all know what you (sham) are trying to do, you (sham) are trying to paint a picture that is untrue'.
@@nieiniei your reply 2 years too late la. LOL. I'm with Thum and it seems many people are too. Not that popularity view matters but Shan rubs me off as condescending and tries to skew the perspective by asking questions that helps to protect the image of govt and subtly insinuates that Thum got his facts wrong. Your citizens may not be lawyers/historians Shan, but they ain't dumb as well.
Its funny how the minister in charge of the ISD, the successor of Special Branch, is trying to argue that the autobiography of Chin Peng, a leader of the Malayan Communist Party is a more reliable source than the Special Branch documents.
History should be debated among historians. The lawyer is a nuisance and distraction when one actually hopes to learn something meaningful about singapore's historical relationship with communism.
I'm watching this and I'm thinking, as riveting as it is, and I thoroughly enjoy that we openly at least talk about these things openly as a country, I can't but help imagining that by halfway through, everyone inside the room is craving Prata. I certainly am! Intelligent discussions make me hungry! Thanks for the interesting discussion guys!
Shanmugam has read the document but he can't comprehend it, simply because he does not have a Doctorate in History but manages to use selected works of Thum to cross examine him from a legal point, but the fact remains, if cross examining people via a legal point, them you must allow the person questioned to give a proper answer, not Yes or No.
wow such details, enthralled to see the historian go thru such a long time under many questions, i feel very tired especially part 1 whr they asked him about his background which was formal, but not essential... 😅
So many of the questions asked were based on ifs and assumptions in a demanding manner. We all know the weight of hypothetical questions in this setting. I was amazed at how conservatively PJ smriked. A total exhibition of class and discipline.
Dr Thum is so calm and he know his work well. I don't understand why S has to twist and make assumption and ask a bunch of questions with contradict statements, with the intention to try to confuse Thum. This is very low tactic.
@@lamsunyong343 you can be with a political agenda and still be handicapped in a "debate" as displayed here. i don't recall anywhere in my remarks where i mentioned or remotely implied that thum has no political agenda.
the pap machinery and gerrymandering will ensure they keep the stooges and fiercest dogs. Have you seen the new vote counting machines? That's how pap will win.
what's the point of the jury questioning the historian? i dont think its a debate, is a trial imo- is trials supposed to be yes/no without any explanation?
Prof Thum you are a Historian researching base on facts...he is a Lawyer who can twist the facts and win a case for a Murderer so says LKY when he changes trial by Jury to trial by a judge or judges
TPJ does not trust that S would allow him a full hearing. S’ persistent interruptions leave the audience totally confused as to the big picture of this exchange. So what is the falsehood which was alleged?
not much of a debate really when: "We ask the questions...and then you answer the question that is being asked" - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7riDKnI8mO4.html
Lee Kuan Yew and his pap have abused instruments of state to entrench their rule in Singapore like using the ISD to lock up their opponents. Passing legislation to facilitate and legitimise their oppression of the oppositions in Singapore is one of their favourite too. Dr Jothie Rajah, daughter of ex-Judicial Commissioner K.S.Rajah and ex-wife of Minister Shanmugum, wrote this book, Authoritarian Rule of Law, detailing the evil ways of the pap government.
anyone care to explain whats operation coldstore? why the historian is being asked in such a manner? whats the purpose of such questioning? who decides and what basis will the court be determined by a mp not a typical judge? 😅 So many questions here and so surprising, can someone enlighten me?
Seeing this mamak lawyer on his grilling of PJ Thum showed clear sign of arrogance high and mighty attitude that he is the best lawyer that the PAP has. His stay will be a liability as the PAP ship will sink in GE2025 with him around. He is responsible for the stupid laws and regulations which if they are out of line with modern times. The result of not adjusting with the new world changing of time and technology and if their antiquated brains are not tune to the changes It will not goes well with the G5 youngsters who are turn off with the PAP style of government. Basically all the PAP policies that been formulated and carried out, almost all the time had been shoved down the citizens throat. The modus operandi of threats, fears, characters assassination, insignificant racism slurs are all talk that does not in anyway affect Sporeans bcos the citizens have come to a stagel where our tolerance has reached to the maximum level. Look at Indonesia who will be going to climb up the ladder to 3rd position in the world as one of the big economic giants. From the most corrupted country to a real democratic country where democracy is being practiced not just seen. There are Muslim radicals and the communist party are allowed to co exist but they are all contained and constraints where the rules of law are really being observed and strictly adhered to. Their Process of nation building, infrastructures and governance management are moving at lightning speed where things before took a lengthy duration now slash to an amazing quick time. They are going to into the G5 era using AI incorporated. They are moving in tandem with China economically as even a 17 year old can hack into any country security system. In just 4 years many highways hv been completed. A new Jakarta MRT is now running. The poor people lives are now enlighten as Jokovi priority was to seriously address the issues. Cheap flats were build at lightning speed to house the squatters. Spore PAP smart scholars and generals cud pick some tips on how to look after and care for Sporeans with the nagging issues that cause the stress they have a been facing and not being addressed. President Jokovi is a normal uni grad and his father had a small carpentry biz. He is managing a country of 270 million people of 700 race, religions and diversified cultures. His principle is live and lets live but with optimism and observing the rules of law. if Indonesia can do things faster Spore should be able to do better.
Look at the number of bots here, pretty much all from the same bunch of people with no video content whatsoever. I'm actually worried at how foreign powers are playing the long term game of influencing one's bias
