Sharpening a one man crosscut Pt 5 - Setting the teeth - by Old Sneelock's Workshop 

luketdrifter2100 Thanks for watching. Before I retired I wrote work instructions for manufacturing processes. After years of trying to convince people that there was a better way to provide training. It all comes about from a wish to explain a complex problem in a simple way. Most people learn more from watching the process than from reading pages of description. I found an outlet here. I don't sell the concept. I just get to tell a willing audience the how and why of things they want to know.

bud moore I set the teeth to .010" offset on each side. That sets the kerf at .020" wider than the blade thickness. I have been cutting hardwood with my saws. Pine or sappy wood may require a little more set than I use.

Thanks for watching Brian. Glad I was able to help.

This is a video I promised to make a while ago. Glad you found it useful.

Bj Hamblin That must be one monster oak. Can you work the cut in sections? Cut part of the way through and then roll the trunk? If the trunk is more than 48" then it will take a big two man saw to get through it. It will make a good video. Any chance you will record the process?

Just be careful with checking the set. Too much and it won't clean up the kerf.

Old Sneelock's Workshop well I set the saw in an hour, and it cuts now. Thanks for the video!

You can make one from some plate steel. 😁😎

I had to hunt up the saw set. It is a Morrill's #4. Patent dates Feb. 24 & Dec 14, 1860. More than 200 yrs since it was the new tool to have. 😁😎

It does make it much easier to have a consistent set to your saw.

This forum has pictures of the relative sizes of saw sets for carpenters panel saws of 5 to 14 teeth per inch and felling and bucking saws with 1 to 2 teeth per inch. www.crosscutsawyer.com/viewtopic.php?t=1277 There are many companies selling crosscut saw sharpening tool kits. This is but one of them. crosscutsaw.com/product-category/all-products/saw-tools/ I have never purchased a new setting tool. They were plentiful when I started sharpening saws and I found many of them sitting in the bottom of auction box lots because no one knew what they were. I found the larger crosscut saw setting pliers by accident. I had the saw and found a tool that fit. Putting them together just came naturally. If you are looking for a tool that will do the job and don't want to spend all the time I did then buying new is the way to go.

@@OldSneelock I'm looking at a pair of setting pliers that have the number 2 on them, I believe you said yours were a #4, what do these numbers mean? Thank you.

My best guess is that the maker built them to fit various sizes of saw teeth. It might mean a dimension or it could be the order they were made in. Jim Thode has a page with a good breakdown of the use of a Morrils 5A saw set. pbase.com/jimthode/image/162036473

The rakers are usually .010 -.015 shorter than the cutting teeth. The cutting teeth slice through the grain making two grooves that let the rakers go through and chip out the wood between the grooves. I set mine to .015" because I cut hardwood here in lower Michigan. Soft wood cuts easier so it can be up to .030" A great resource to go along with my videos is the Crosscut Saw Manual written by Warren Miller. www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf77712508/pdf77712508dpi72.pdf

@@OldSneelock Oh nice ! Thank you for providing such an interesting document !

If the tooth is cracked or broken off the only fix is to file the teeth until they are all the same height. If there are a few teeth broken it might still cut okay. As long as you don't have 4 or five in a row the missing tooth just won't just so it will slow the saw down. Each time you sharpen the saw the short one can just be along for the ride until it is long enough to be a tooth again.

Thanks Larry. It seems that Google doesn't really care if the channel is hacked. As long as you can't prove you are the owner they won't give you a passcode.

The pliers type saw set is adjustable. I don't really know the maximum amount it could be set for but it definitely will go beyond .015. I learned that while practicing with it. If it is set for .010" like I have it, the tooth will be bent to .010" and that's as far as it will take it. If you don't complete the pull on the handles it can set less than .010" but I've never had it or any other set bend more than it is adjusted to. There is one exception. If you grip the tooth with the saw set and then while the tooth is held tightly in the jaws you can over bend the tooth by wrenching on the handle. The spider is useful for checking the saw between sharpenings. It will help you spot a sprung tooth. It is more important with the hammer and anvil method. With the pliers once they are set they are pretty repeatable. I check the saw before sharpening just to be sure I don't have any over bent teeth that require correction. Dressing the teeth with the file won't make it necessary to set the saw every time. Because of the angles you have to take off quite a bit of tooth to change the set. I would expect that once you have the saws sharp you won't need to do all the major work that I did on the saw blade without a handle I showed in the video. It had been sharpened incorrectly and I needed to really take a lot off of the rakers to bring it back right. Since these saws are going to be yours for a long time I would go lightly on the first attempt to sharpen them. If you use the tools I have in the video and don't get heavy with the file you'll be alright. When you are jointing the teeth if a few don't get touched by the file, as long as they aren't 5 or 6 in a row, then don't joint any further. When you get to the short ones., just take a few strokes on each tooth and try them. After you sharpen the saw a few times the short ones will catch up. Even a poorly sharpened saw will cut better than a dull one. Good luck and let me know how they turn out. Dave N. aka Old Sneelock

Old Sneelock's Workshop I just picked up one of these Morrill's off ebay. How hard is it to set the angle? Is it fairly intuitive? Do I guess and then check it with the spider and adjust from there?

I did the guessing process first. The bottom slide determines how much it bends and the front slide determines how far down the tool it bends. Showing is going to be a lot easier than telling. Looks like I need to do another video. I'll try and have it done this week.

Hi Chris. Glad you stopped by. I'm named after a fellow in a Dr. Seuss book who could do anything. I complained to my wife early in our marriage that even though I could do almost anything I couldn't do it all at once. I said "I'm not Old Sneelock." She thought it was funny. When we moved to our farm and I had a real workshop finally she got me the sign that is the Channel Logo.

I made this video as a supplement to the written instructions at: www.fs.fed.us%2Feng%2Fpubs%2Fpdfpubs%2Fpdf77712508%2Fpdf77712508dpi72.pdf There is a good explanation of what the set for different woods could be in the text,

Double Bit Craftsman If the saw set only goes down to 6 teeth per inch it isn't big enough to work. A one man crosscut is more like 1 tooth per inch. The smaller set may bend the tooth but it will bend it too close to the point. You are a better judge of your skill level than I am. Setting the teeth is bending just the top 1/3 of the tooth out slightly. If you are hitting it hard enough to chip the tooth, that is too hard. You only want to bend the tooth a maximum of .015". That is just less than .3 mm .

Old Sneelock's Workshop alright, thank you

janken919 I'm going to assume you have a saw blade you want to work on. Look at the teeth. There will be some that are pointed those are the crosscut teeth. On some saws there will be straight or raker teeth like the ones in the video. The pointed teeth are the ones that are set. The idea is to move the points on the teeth away from the center of the blade so they scribe two lines further apart than the thickness of the blade. The pointed teeth will be sharpened with the point on one side of the tooth. You want to move that point further away from the center when you set the tooth. That will break the wood away from the surface and if there is a raker tooth it will chisel the chip away from the wood. File the teeth first. Before setting them. You should have points on the crosscut teeth before you try to figure out where the point should be. It doesn't take a lot of set for the blade to work. All you want is for the kerf left by the teeth to be wider than the thickness of the blade so the blade won't drag in the cut. .010 to .015 will be about right for most of the wood you will cut. Wet wood .015" is better. Dry wood .010" works good. You can improvise a gage from a piece of steel bar. I'll give some dimensions here but it can be pretty much anything strong enough not to bend and light enough to pick up and carry. Start with a piece of steel bar about 2" long, 1/4" thick, and 1/2" wide. File a 1/2" long section on the 1/4" side of one end. To determine how deep to file the notch we'll use a piece of tablet paper. Tablet paper is approximately .003" thick. Fold a piece twice and if will end up .012 thick. Make the notch you're filing as deep as the folded paper and you should be good. To test it put the paper in the notch and run the file over the 1/4" edge. If it hits the paper without filing it away you are all set. Betore you start setting the teeth check them with the gage you just made. Set the gage on the blade with the notch down. Point the notched end at the tooth you want to check. You are going to be checking them all before you're done but only one at a time. Slide the gage over the tooth. If the tooth hits the top of the notch without lifting the gage from the blade the tooth is set correctly. Move to the next tooth. If it doesn't touch mark the tooth with a pencil, chalk, or anything handy that will stay on for a while. That is the tooth you will be setting. If the gage rises up off the blade when it slides over the tip of the tooth mark that one with a different mark. You might have to take a little set out the high tooth, but only after testing how the blade cuts. If you don't have a saw set you can use a small hammer and an improvised anvil. A half inch diameter rod or bolt driven into a block of wood will work in a pinch. It just has to be strong enough to support the saw and withstand tapping with a hammer. Lay the tooth that you marked to be set on top of the anvil with 1/3 of the tooth over the edge. Tap the tooth gently with a hammer small enough to hit just that tooth. No point in bending more teeth than the one because the teeth on either side have to point the other way. It's a lot easier to hit it twice than to have to bend it back. You are moving the tooth just a little bit. If you take a swing at the blade full force you can break the tooth or the blade itself. Patience pays on this job. Now that you have tapped the tooth, flip the blade over and check the tooth with the gage. If it needs another tap then do it again. After a few teeth you will get the feel of how much to hit it. Better to sneak up on it than to damage the blade. Now you have the blade set. Check the teeth for sharpness. Are the points still in good shape? If so then you can move on to setting the height of the rakers. If not then touch them up and check the set again. Slow and steady wins the race. Hit too hard or file to much and you end up fixing your mistakes more than sharpening the blade.

Old Sneelock's Workshop Wow! Thank you so much! It looks like there is no kerf on the blade. When I cut with it, the blade binds on itself.

+janken919 The blade dragging in the cut points to a lack of set in the teeth. Before we go to bending teeth make sure the blade is clean and smooth. Just a little surface rust will slow down the blade a lot. With a clean, shiny blade put some wax on the sides of the blade before cutting. Paste wax, paraffin, or even a bit of old candle stub will speed up the process. When you are sure that the basic steps to saw prep are complete then go on to setting and filing the blade.

+Old Sneelock's Workshop I finally have time to start working on my saw now. I made the gauge that you said 2 X 1 X 3\8". I used a feeler gauge to make the notch at .012 which is thinner than I expected. How do I clean the blade around the teeth without wrecking the teeth. I also have a nice piece of thick flat steel for my anvil.

janken919 I've tried a lot of different ways. The rotary wire wheel left scratches on the teeth that I think make a weak spot that can become a crack. Scotchbrite pads do a good job of cleaning but they shred apart awfully quick. It seems like all the fast methods just let me make mistakes quicker. The way I settled on cleaning blades is to use a sanding pad laid flat on the blade to do the bulk of the cleaning. Then I take a bit of sand paper and rub each tooth with my finger. I don't polish them but I try to remove the rust and smooth out the surface. Congratulations on finding a plate for your anvil. Each time you get a new tool that you need the jobs get easier.

Mine are antiques that I found over many years of looking. 2 mm is a very thick blade. Have you tried searching on line?

@@OldSneelock yes, but am not sure what search term I should use.

@@johnytwo crosscutsaw.com/product/443-economy-saw-setting-sharpening-kit/

There are suppliers of new tools on line. I got mine in antique and junk stores.

Matt Cooper he did

Christine Elerick Yes it can. Tuttle and Champion are different names for the same of tooth pattern. www.canbike.org/off-topic/reference/crosscut-saw-tooth-reference-guide.html

The saw blade without the handle is etched The Bingham..... Cleveland....... Only the left side is readable There was The Bingham Hardware Co. in Cleveland ech.case.edu/ech-cgi/article.pl?id=WBC The saw with the handle is only marked Economy with the words Cast Steel faintly in a circle above them.

Old Sneelock's Workshop Thanks

bendoslice 785 crosscutsaw.com/product/443-economy-saw-setting-sharpening-kit/ An alternate could be Ebay. www.ebay.com/itm/SIMONDS-No-340-CRESCENT-CROSSCUT-SAW-TOOL-ORIGINAL-BOX-SHARPENING-SET-NICE/192368600079?hash=item2cca0fe40f:g:X~0AAOSwbw1aEMRy

Joe Tittiger The wood is 4 year old mulberry firewood. Dry as a bone. The noodles effect will only occur if the chips will hold together. This brittle wood just breaks up into crumbled dust.

Emmans907@gmail.com Emmanuel This one is not for sale. You can buy one like it on Ebay.

I see what you are saying but what is the point of bending the tooth to create set? My understanding is that the purpose is to create a wider kerf so the blade has clearance. The tip of the tooth cuts. Not the side.

@@OldSneelock the point is, you don't have a bent cutting surface, remember, the piece touching the wood, is the piece that will cut....if only the tip touches, that's what's cutting....if you bend the whole blade equally, it will use the whole blade's cutting surface, instead of only the tip...try it...0.5°

​@@vanstaden According to the "Cross Cut Saw Manual by Warren Miller ( google it... ) under the Section "Setting" he states, To set a saw is to bend the tip of each cutter tooth a slight amount away from the plane of the saw. Just as alternate teeth are sharpened opposite each other, they are set opposite to each other. Setting helps prevent binding by cutting a kerf that is slightly wider than the saw. The amount of set required depends on the type of saw used and the type of wood being cut. A saw should be set only as much as required to keep it from binding. More set than necessary results in more work to make a wider kerf and a saw that flops in the cut with the possibility of a curving cut. The set required can vary from almost nothing for a crescent-taper-ground saw in dry hardwood to 0.030 inch for the same saw in soft, punky wood. A set of 0.010 inch is a good preliminary figure. Flat-ground saws require more set.

I think you are mistaken. The tip of the tooth is the part that contacts the wood. Since the tooth is set so the tip of the tooth is .010" further from the center of the blade than the base of the tooth, the kerf is .020" wider than the blade is thick. That provides clearance for the plate to follow the cutting edge. Since the base of the tooth is attached to the plate the base of the tooth will not be touching the sides of the kerf if you are doing it right. With that in mind it follows that any part of the tooth other than the tip will not be in contact with the wood and therefore won't be cutting. Following your logic the tooth will have to be bent in an offset so the tooth is set parallel to the plate at .010 wider than the plate is thick. That could be done. The result would be still the tip of the tooth will be cutting the wood. The side of the tooth that you have parallel to the plate at a .010" offset will be rubbing on the ends of the wood fibers that the tip of the tooth has sheared off. You might as well not have any set to the tooth at all.

@@OldSneelock no....the whole tooth cuts...not only the tip. If you use a saw set and bend only the tip, yes, thats what youll get. But in theory, that way is wrong. The whole tooth is sharpened from tip to end of its body, so thats what youll need to cut with. Otherwise just sharpen the tip hence that is the only thing that cuts the wood. I have been sharpening these saws for many years, my grandfather use to use those 2 man saws in the forests. I have competed in many buck saw competitions as well, Dont let youtube teach you how to sharpen a 2 man saw. Do it the right way. Use all of your saw's potential. Let the teeth do the cutting. Not the tip. Otherwise your saw is useless. Youll be spending 2 minutes cutting through a 12 inch log, which should take you in reality about 30 seconds to complete

The smaller ones can only set up to 4 tpi. I have a larger one that can set 30 inch circular saw blades.