Massive discussion on this video, more so than I thought would happen, lol. The fact is that Shimano has since made multiple changes to their shifters to give more ergo choices, even taking some design ideas from Sram. The newer triggers give tell-tale signs that Shimano noticed good features of their competition and adapted their own slightly. In the end, it comes down to whatever YOU as the rider prefers. Who cares if others dont share your choice? I put my opinion and try to show examples here on RU-vid, knowing many arent going to agree with me, and so be it. I'm a Sram fan, have used their high-end products for over a decade and will keep twisting away! You choose what works for you.
***** Its because sram has a new 1x design. It removes a chainring meaning there is only 1 chainring in the front. That means your chain doesn't fall off (still possible) and it removes the need for the front derailleur therefore not requiring the front shifter.
At the moment, I'd say 2 rings in the front is the most common. The high end bikes will have 11 gears in the back while the low end groupsets will have 8-9 with this number increasing as the price does as well. 24 gears isnt what you're looking for because with the 3 rings in front, you have a lot of overlapping gears which are useless. It is better to have more gears in the back than more in the front.
+Michael Zhang you are right for down hill and down hill only! you are completely wrong on the broad spectrum. this guy was making a general statement for what he likes about shifters. he didnt point out down hill racing did he? i dont recall he did. but since your pointing it out! so here we go with some general knowledge you should know- 1 X's are for down hill racing. 2 X's are more for road. but you will find it on mountain bikes. 3 X's are meant more for touring bikes. you'll find them on road and mountain bike as well. touring bike will generally have 24 to 28 gears not 32. now your statement of over lapping gears called redundant gearing comes into play. i hope this clears things up. have a nice day!
This is a really old thread and theres no need to turn it into an argument. At no point did I mention downhill and if you look at all of the top end race mountain bikes today, downhill, enduro and XC, you'll notice most if not all are running 1x groupsets. Finally take a look at who I was replying to. Somebody had been asking about 1x iirc and I was answering his question. Not the op. That person had deleted his comments making it look like I was trying to disagree with the op. You really need to calm yourself when it comes to youtube comments. Hope you're a troll.
Thanks for posting this review on the differences between Shimano and Sram trigger shifters. Setting up a new bike and was having trouble deciding between the two. This helped. Now onto finding the best derailler
Thank you! I am a novice and I had no idea how to down shift when i bought my bike. I have the SRAM x3 and i've gotten used to it. Thanks for making it easy and sharing!
Wow, got Grip Shifters and feel better about it do to your comments on your MTB preference. Your deep man and considering the ergonomics of shifters was not something I'd ever thought about but do now. Thanks again for your great video and I'm now a subscriber!
Exactly! This video is my personal perspective of the various shifters, showing why I feel certain designs are better or more ergonomic. If you like something different by all means it's your choice!
I recently replaced my 12 year old Shimano deore shifters with new deore shifters because they began to have problems engaging in sub-zero temps. from wear. The old ones are as your described. The new ones shift up with thumb or finger. I instantly began shifting with my thumb every time without a second thought. A welcome and unexpected upgrade.
Yep, in more recent times Shimano took notice of Sram's triggers that are quite nice and made their own way of a more ergonomic trigger design. At this point, the video's 5 years old and getting a bit out of date... Time for a new comparison soon!
I noticed it was old, but still an interesting video since I had kind of converted recently from one to another without an appreciation for where the technology began. Thanks for spending the time to compare them.
Mongoosejake, thank you so very much for this informative video. All of the information you provided really needed to be explained exactly as you did. I too ride with a finger at the ready and totally relate to everything you've stated here. I salute you sir and again thank you.
Nice review - High quality comparison, THANKS! However, your video did show me that I prefer the Shimano for trigger. I recently swapped out my SRAM for Shimano and am very happy. But they are 10 speed and maybe have a bit more options as I think I can push two ways for one of the shifts. I have my brakes set up for single finger braking, but I am trying to teach myself not to keep my fingers on the brakes all the time. I have been startled and I think I grabbed the brakes and went over the handlebars. I am usually not considering braking at the times that I am worried about shifting.
You are so right about resting your index finger on the brake lever. I just bought a new Dback HT and love the 27.5 wheels and frame, but the function and form of the rear shifter is the worst I have ever used. I'm going to try and retain the rear cassette, but the best grip shifter I can fit to it goes on ASAP. I used grip shifters on my previous custom built MTB and they are the best, period. I cannot imagine why trigger shifters dominate the market. Must be peer pressure and magazine articles. Same for 29 inch wheels. Waaaaay too big for tight, nimble work.
It's a lot to do with what is standard on bikes off the shelf I think. People buy bikes that come with triggers, and simply get used to using them, not even wondering if the other option might be better. Or, they are so used to triggers that they feel odd if they do try twisters.
Good confirmation that a simple twist system may be the best. My old SRAM grip shifter feels more intuitive than lever-based models. You just have to remember that the chainring dérailleur gets twisted in the opposite direction of the rear dérailleur grip.
I've never had that issue even once, but its due to the length of grip I use on the stationary portion. My stationary grip is wider than my palm, and I use brake levers positioned to where my index finger can rest on the hook of the lever with my palm still on the stationary grip. The accidental shifting (heard many people talk about it) is from riders using the shifter as the main part of the grip. I dont actually grip the shifter while riding, just a quick slide over and twist!
I'm thinking of getting a new bike, and this video has really helped in the shifting department. I looked at one with an SRAM Gripshift this weekend and I must agree that they're a lot more comfortable, as well as safer than the trigger shifters.
Yes. if you plan to ride in the city or country roads. If you think about MTB then trigger shifter. I'm riding in MTB for over 10 years and I checked every solution, the best part is the trigger shifter Shimano or SRAM (personal preference) I do not see the difference. Gripshift = problems when climbing uphill - accidental gear shift.
Basically, the interior of a standard Sram (MRX to X0 7/8/9 speed versions) consist of a index system of a flexable curved steel spring that indexes against the notched housing, and the movable half of the shift (the grip part) rides on a bushing. The new XO/XX 10 speed and XX1 11 speed are a all new design featuring full metal internals and the twist part of the shifter rides on multiple rows of bearings, solving anyone's question of durability.
I totally agree with you. Want to add just one thing: I am having a GREAT experience with SUNTOUR ACCUSHIFT X-PRESS PLUS. Its a thumb only shifter that can shift through a number of gears at once. very accurate and ergonomic and fast.
I really appreciate this video. I also totally prefer to twist, but Shimano trigger, as I don't mind taking my index off the brake to shift up, that's where one has to think, am I speeding up, or needing my brake.
Thanks for the video. I'm currently switching from Shimano to Sram 10 speed trigger shifters on my hybrid. I was a little miffed, so I went straight to RU-vid, and found your video. I think I may like the Sram's better. I have Sram Apex on my TT bike, and am very happy with the price/performance.
Right on! Being a "trail mechanic" since before shocks, sram grip shift have always been the easiest to use as well as maintain and keep shifting true to gear. Ive been discouraged with the lack of srams on the showroom floors. I will save your video and recommend its viewing. Thanks
Gotta say I prefer the shimano rapidfire shifters the twist shifts are ok untill that you get caught in the rain without riding gloves then ya hands tend to slip they never seem to have to same friction as the grip
Proud owner of a restored Mongoose Hill Topper 1991 in black chrome. Love SRAM shifters cause they don't get affected by dirt, winter salt. Deore are great shifters, but get mean and sloppy a little dirt and salt get in the cable.
Sram's far less effected by grime due to the 1 to 1 ratio of shifting they use. 1mm of cable pulled makes the derailleur move 1mm. Shimano uses a less direct 2/1 ratio that does get a bit more affected when really grimy. I'd still advise to clean everything from either brand routinely! Gotta keep our rides working in tip top shape!
Great vid got an old mtb really old putting better parts on it ,I'm a grip shifter fan for life I prefer them better than the new style shifting 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
I've always had a twist shift. I bought a 29er this month and it has levers. wow Those are interesting to get used to. they're just inexpensive shifters that came with it. but I think I'm going to upgrade to Sram because I'm getting used to them faster than I thought. what's weird is you use your index to brake I keep all 3 on the brake for some reason. my 3rd finger fits in the end curve comfortably I guess. I'm glad I watched this.
The ergonomic adavantage is Shimano because, you can down shift with the index finger or the thumb. So it´s adapt to your style of shifting. Ich like Sram, but the dual downshift ist more versatile. Why i dont like Twist shifter. more false shifting on track/trail...
SRAM has push/pull levers for reduction as well and probably had it before Shimano, so it's pretty much down to personal choice. I like SRAM for mtb more because of more resistance to dirt and rough terrain overall - SRAMs der bodies wobble a lot less than Shimano due to awesome routing design (Shimano has similar stuff in Shadow series derailleurs, but it's nowhere near X0/X9 stability, maybe except of Saint/Zee, but they're quite robust and heavy). Also gripshifts don't mis-shift when used properly, you have SRS spring with very hard click, only first timers happen to have some problems with shifting accidents. I was skeptical towards twist shifters in serious riding too, but then I switched to gripshifts and they're just stunning, even more so considering they're both cheaper and lighter than triggers.
+mongoosejake i've read other reviewers complaining of accidental shifting with twists. i have a 1997 cannondale with grip shifters and never have accidently shifted gears.
Since I don't need to have fingers on the brake and the shifters at the same time, I can live with any of the shifters described here. The twist shift would be my last choice though, because that looks like it would cause my wrist to get tired on long rides that require frequent shifting.
What i really hate is that wrist shifting crap. Going off the saddle, making efforts on the handlebars all shifting accidentally. Alternative is awkward hand positions. Can't stand it. Give me triggers anytime, whatever the brand.
Personal preferences will be different for each person, thats why they're "personal preferences". After 16 years of riding, I'm twist only and never looking back.
Sales on major bike websites are a good resource for getting the most out of your budget. Nashbar, Jenson, Performance Bike and others will offer up to 50% off original prices at certain times (such as when new models are released-the past models get clearanced). Same goes for your local shops. They will try to clear out old bikes to make room for incoming ones. Specific brands I like that offer value: Mongoose (you can now order upper level online), Raleigh, Diamondback, and Giant...
I like the twist shifters. They are a breeze to use! I had 2 bikes, 1 with thumb and index finger shifters, the other with twist shifters. The twist shifters are intuitive and quick!
Havent rode the newer Deore yet, so my Shimano experience stopped about 2 years ago, as I'm totally Sram now, and have been using mostly Sram since 8 years ago.
I have a microshift on left with multiple notches,where as other microshifter only have 3.my 29er shifts so easy ,where I put one on another bike and is extremely hard to twist ,all have new cables and housing ? could it be the front derailleur?my 29er seems like a friction ,cause I can shift 4 clicks between each number.
I like shimano shifters just for back speed change,because right thumb finger trigger up for lower speed,right index finger trigger down for higher speed and than middle finger and ring finger can brake same time.
unbelievable jake, you take the time and trouble to make a very informative video and offer your personal opinion, which you are entitle to. Then you are attacked by small minded posters trying to condemn you. Anyway, I found the video very informative and interesting, well done.
I just started biking and recently bought a mongoose bedlam style mountain bike with shimano twistshift gears. I am having a hard time trying to figure out how to use the gears and which side controls what gears...ugh..please help! I had a Next brand which I know is a cheap brand but it did what I needed it to while I had it and it was easier to shift than the new one I just got!
hi guys i wanna know if you can advise me on a shifter i am new to biking as far as these go i am use to the twist setup on changing gear i have an old jump bike not an expensive one and its been took to pieces its an old x rated bike it looks sturdy the 14inch frame front suspension shimano derailleur with "26" x 2.10 it says its a 18 year bike from what i have seen online and i have counted and i need some advise on what i need. cheers matt
To a lot what you say, I do agree.Your aspect with the fingers, thumb and Sram is correct, but for most of the riders not relevant, because they do not really mountainbiking. Sram Grip Shift: Even the cheap ones are good. Shimano RevoShift are not as good as the cheap Sram Grip Shift. Shimano makes RevoShift to be able to deliver for cheap bikes. RevoShift is a little bit cheaper than Sram Grip Shift - even the aftermarket ones. BUT when it comes to the comparing Sram trigger and Shimano RapidFire, Shimano has the better selection with Altus, Acera, Alivio, Deore and so on. They also offer combinations of shifters and brake levers. And all these is good and not too expensive. ST-EF are the cheap Shimano combinations, but not too bad. This goes on with the derailleurs: Shimano Altus, Acera, Alivio etc., they are also cheap and good. Here is Sram missing good and cheap derailleurs. Plus: A lot of the Shimano design is better. Shimano offers cheap and good hydraulic disc brakes. Shimano offers with Altus a cheap and good groupset. Sram does not providing things like this. The Sram cranksets are expensive and a lot of the hydraulic Avid disc brakes are expensive and bad. All in all has Shimano the much better product selection than Sram. Most of the customers worldwide want/need "cheap & good". And Shimano makes most of the money with huge quantities of cheap and good parts. Shimano XT, XTR, Dura-Ace, Ultegra - all fine, but expensive, the most of the customers worldwide cannot afford XT & Co..
The 2 way release on the Shimano has the extra benefit over Sram of downshifting in two ways. Using your thumb in a controlled manner when riding fast on the trials. And the other downshift method using your index finger when coasting along so you can rest and relax your wrist on the grip. An added bonus over the Sram IMHO.
what mountain bike with hydrolic brakes and 21 to 27 speed under 500$ range would u suggest? looking to buy new but dont have much knowledge. Currently looking at a carrera kraken that has these features. help would be greatly appreciated.
Shimanoès upper end triggers now operate with the finger trigger able to move both the traditional finger method AND the thumb method, 2 ways. Plus, this Shimano lever is able to shift up to 2 gears at once as opposed to SRAMs single gear. In all honesty, I have used both and like both almost equally. I may prefer the trigger shifter by Shimano, I like the XTR, in rougher terrain that my local trails have where I donèt have the option to be loosening my grip on the bar to use grip shift.
Grip Shifters were a major hit in the 90's but was quickly abandoned by high end bike makers because they just didn't work well for most serious riders. I bought a Specialized FS bike during that same period with the SCRAM Grip Shifters and threw them in the landfill and exchanged them for my good old favorite XT Rapidfire's after only a few rides. There is a reason you only see twist shifters on Walmart grade bikes these days. Oh, and by the way, Shimano has added a thing called Dual Release in their modern Rapidfire Plus shifters for some time now. Watching the video I couldn't really make out what model year the Deore Rapidfire shifter was but I want to say that shifter may have been a dual release model which would make this whole video very misleading. I bought a $1000 bike for my son recently with SCRAM X5 shifters and the rear (RH) shifter locked up on the first ride! SCRAM just gave me another reason to doubt their quality and think it is all Walmart grade shit unless you buy into the X9 and up level.
if you say the gripshift is only for walmart bikes then why Kulhavy, Absalon and several pro riders rely on it? for me every shifter is good as long as it works well as it supposed to be.
kevin jonathan Actually I was kinda drunk (which makes be overly biased and mean) when I made this comment. I did some research on SRAM and I didn't realize they made high end twist shifters all the way up to the the XX1 drivetrain group. And as you stated. Yes, it all has to do with what you prefer. And I do realize Shimano makes Walmart grade bike components too.
I did the same thing... In '93 I bought a stumpjumper and the shop convinced me to give the grip shift a try, so I did. This is where we went in different directions - I have never gone back to trigger shift, and never will. I'm using twist shift X0 on both of my current bikes. To me, it's quicker and easier to shift than triggers. Like the guy in the video says, it's nice to be able to go through all the gears with one twist.
Restored a 1991 GT Karakoma with 7 Speed XT Rapidfire combos. Nothing compares to the silent shifting. Never been a fan of any grip shifters. Hell to replace the cable....
Gripshift is the only system that let’s you instantly shift from the lowest to the highest gear. The most likely place you would do this is at the end of a decent that turns to a steep climb where most people adjust their grip on the bars. While others are behind wasting precious seconds adjusting their grip and fiddling with the paddle through all the various gears we’ve twisted through ours in one go and have already begun our climb!
The Shimano in mine bike works like the one in this video except, you can use the index trigger in both directions. you can push it with your thumb or push it with your index finger, you can literally push it forward or backwards to shift.
That's quite fine, as we all have our personal opinions. Not everyone can have the same taste. That said, I've found that most riders that say they don't like Gripshift have never tried it, or at least have never tried a good level setup such as X7 or up.
This is true, with the exception of a rider who has a predetermined preference (such as myself). I prefer Sram's crisp shifting over Shimano's more "fluid" feel, and also prefer Gripshifts ease of use over the entire gear range. Mountain Bike Action also loved the new Sram XX1 twisters. If you have the preference already, you're likely to swap ASAP. If you're just wanting to "test" something new, its better to wait for something to break, when its more justified to spend the money on the swap.
in running SRAM x 3 1x7 jumping from really old deore XT and i gotta say i round an enormous differenze between the two tipe of triggers and i gotta add to this that shimano old triggers might have some problema with newer grips cause of the thickness of em ... with that said i round SRAM components amazingly nice and istinctive Like you said and with a nice price for the buck
didn't talk about the left shifter much , on my 29er I have twist microshift,on my 26" has microshifter,but is really hard to twist.both have new cables and housings.the 29er has 4clicks between each number where on th26" doesn't ,only 3 clicks??
Weather or not it's worth it is up to you. I swap any bike over to Sram's Gripshift personally. If you're watching a budget, I'd say to wait until something breaks, such as your stock rear derailleur for example. I'm more of the type that prefers a very specific setup, so I change over all bikes, or custom build most of the bikes you see on this channel. Just weigh the option of waiting until something brakes, versus a total drivetrain swap (Sram/Shimano doesn't mix for the most part).
but,,, would have been nice if the bike being shifted was on a stand (or being ridden) so we could SEE the result on the derailleur? i mean, do ya pull a Shimano trigger and quickly release? ,,,or pull and hold the trigger until the bike shifts ? ? ?
I have the same shimano shifters and I can use my thumb to either up or down shift. The up shift lever (rear derailleur) can be used with your thumb. You don't need to use your pointer finger. It's a 2 way system.
No, adjusting front shifting is the easiest with twisters, as you get the added benefit of being able to "trim" the derailleur & shifter to exactly how you want. The "trim" I'm referring to is the extra indexing a twist shifter has vs the notched design of a trigger.
Yes, I agree that it can be a subject of strong personal opinions. In the video I even commented that it's less of an actual performance difference and simply a ergonomic preference. I personally feel that Sram's triggers are a bit more ergonomic in that they only require your thumb. I personally prefer twist shifters, which are totally love or hate among most riders, lol. At X5 or Deore and above I feel that it's simply personal preference, but I made the video to detail the differences.
Riding for 15 years (with a good portion using twist shifters) has made me not have any blister issues, but that never was a problem. You don't actually ride to where you're hanging onto the shifter, but rather the standard grip section.
I have a short story Last time I bought a bike I was 6 or 7 years old. Today I went and bought shimano used bike with twisters for 200$, the seller said that it's original price is 500$. I tried everything at the shop and it was fine, but when I took it home by car and then rode it I tried to switch the front and it didn't switch. I tried a lot and a lot, but it didn't work. Actually I will stick to these twister type even after I fix it not because it is easy but it is a lot more fun. Thx.
I too prefer SRAM, but that's because I've tried the Shimano Deore XT and Acera shifters and derailleurs, and considering they cost the same (or often more), they're just not as good as SRAM X4, which has fast, reliable and intuitive action. I also agree that the SRAM is superior because you don't lose grip on the brake lever, but you could use your middle finger there. I don't like twist-shifters because they can jump too many gears in one move - ironically that's why you prefer them. That 'jumping' causes your cable to get stretched, which mean more regular gear tuning. Also, if the chain tries to span multiple sprockets on your cassette/freewheel in one move, it risks chain stress and broken sprocket teeth.
Shifters, like saddles, handlebars and other ergo items are totally personal preference. My hope in the video was to show the differences and state why I personally prefer twist or Sram's trigger design over Shimano's. There's probably 1000's more people that don't like twist shifters or are Shimano fans.
Also, Rocket and Attack series Sram components are meant to be able to function with Shimano derailleurs. They don't operate on Sram's 1:1 pull ratio and will feel different than the crisp feel of the X series groups (this applies to rear derailleur/shifter only, fronts are all the same pull). As for not ever being able to get them to work "just right" can come down to possibly needing fresh cable housing, lower quality derailleur, chain, or even worn chainrings... Any of those can be an issue.
mongoosejake for a mid-1990s with SRAM grip-shift (SRT-400) 21-speed (3 chainrings/7cogs) , would you recommend replacing with SRAM current MRX shifter or a NOS identical SRAM srt400? The better SRAM grip shifters are all 8, 9, and 10 speeds. The sram MRX is 7speed, but it's at their product line's lowest end and I worry about its quality - but it may be better than old 1990s SRT400...
ForbinColossus Hope you donèt mind my suggestion. I have ridden mtbs since the early 90s and have used various shifter including Shimano thumb shifters, Shimano triggers shifter(XT and XTR), Suntour thumb shifters and Grip Shift SRT 500 and SRT 800 X Ray. If I were you I would just go for the new MRX model. Early Grip Shift were extremely simple designs and I am almost positive that the MRX is nearly identical to the NOS SRT400 but the newer model appears to have a slightly more ergonomic design with its bulged grip that runs up along the inside for extra grip when shifting. The SRT 400 was an very early model and they have had a long time to learn what plastics to use and how to seal it better. Despite being low end, its still the same basic design as their absolute best shifters back in the 90s. Besides, you will likely not get a warranty with an NOS product. The MRX are also dirt cheap.
If you prefer it, thats fine for you. After using Shimano for years and then switching to Sram, Sram is far better for me, and I've heard the same from a number of riders. Sram's thumb only has been the prefered method of myself and those I've spoken to that have used both. Again, shifters, grips, saddles, etc are all preference items. What I feel is much more ergonomic and my prefered option may be your least favorite item. Ride hard and have fun!
To continue, I already knew that someone was going to irrationally be negative to this video. Shifters are very much a personal preference item. As are saddles, grips, shoes, jerseys, etc. Just because my opinion and preference doesn't match yours doesnt make me or you wrong or right. The only shifter failures in 15 years of riding and racing I've had were 4 Shimano triggers (3 right triggers, 1 LX,1 Deore,1 Acera) and one left side (old STX), and one cheap Sram MRX 7 speed righty went KIA.
Nice video. I am thinking buying bike and i want shifters that don't required me using right index finger cause couple years ago i lost it in work accident plus tip of the middle finger. So i want find shifters that uses thumb only. I dont like twist shifters. So can someone recommend good thumb shifters?
I'm building a motorized bicycle so the Shimano Deore on the right side is perfect for me. Having a throttle, I'll never ride with my hand on the brake lever so that's not an issue. On a motorized bike you want to come off the throttle and stay off for a second until after the gear has changed.
To be clear, my statement of shifters being personal preference means that you may really like something that I dont, while I may love something you can stand (twister shifters being a good example, as I swap most any bike I own over to twisters, at least my mountain bikes that is). I do use Sram triggers on my urban/commuter bike. We can all have our own choices and that's awesome!
Depends on how radical the bend is on the bullhorn. The insertion of a grip-type shifter on a bullhorn with a sharp bend, will not allow the shifter to slide all the way to the normal shifting postion on the bar.
