If you have a 3ds or 2ds xl etc you can get some of the DS games for 21.56 on the digital store if you are interested din playing some of the other SMT games.
nice beginners guide series. i loved your gateway games video especially. i have only completed Persona 3 Portable , Persona 4 , and Persona 1. so ive already dipped my toes into shin megami tensei. wish i saw your video earlier but it still helped me see what other games are out there. great guides. good videos.
Hey man, thanks for this. I'm trying to get into this series and this series has really helped me to understand a lot, especially when it comes to combat priorities. I look forward to playing more games in the series!
To be honest, SMT Imagine online is a very solid game once you do a bit of research and get a hang of how things are done, it is grind heavy though, but its still not bad.
My first SMT was SMTIV. After that, I was hooked. I'm an ATLUS fanboy now and have played most of the games. I quickly noticed the recurring themes and possible timeline. Although, I wonder where EO ties in. I think EO is distant post-apoc future.
Where is part 5? This really helped by the way! :D To think that the most popular part of the series is an alternate universe is awesome!!! My mind is blown!!!
1: Just because Demonicas exist in both universes doesn't mean SJ and IV share a continuity. That's like saying Devil Survivor 1 and SMT 1 are in the same universe because both have COMPs. Some people (me included) have theorized that SJ and SMT IV are alternate universes to each other (something causes a split in the timeline with one branch leading to SJ and one branch leading to IV) 2: Once again: Similar concept, yet alternate universes.there's also an ICBM attack in MegaTen 2, yet that is also a separate universe. The ICBM incident is completely unrelated to the Great Destruction that occurs in SMT I. IV's apocalypse occurs as a result of angels instigating the use of the Yamato Reactor to bring about the demonic invasion, which gives them an excuse to create their Thousand Year Kingdom (although this doesn't go as planned: Thus we get the Kingdom of Mikado instead) and the ICBM was the angels' last-ditch attempt at clearing Tokyo of demons and "unworthy" humans. SMT I's apocalypse occurred as a result of the Gaian and Messian forces going too far and kicking off a supernatural war right in the middle of Tokyo, with Lucifer attempting to (and, if Commander Gotou is to be believed, almost successfully) use Tokyo as a springboard for the Chaotic takeover of the world. Naturally the angels (who had America under their control) didn't want this to happen, and as soon as the Chaotic demons' barrier over Japan failed, they launched an ICBM attack on Japan. Something else to further prove that they're separate incidents is the the time of events: SMT I is very clearly set in the 90s, while SMT IV's apocalypse didn't occur until at least 2010
RasenReviews Okay, just to strike some stuff down though: Devil survivor's comps and SMT1's comps are entirely different devices (one being a portable computer and the other being a DS/3DS). Because they are the exact same devices I'm gonna say that the demonicas in SMT IV came from SJ universe through amala, it seems more possible than both worlds having the exact same device.
I know they're different, I was just saying it to prove a point. We do know that SMT IV's demonics were in fact built by the United Nations like they were in SJ, though. Like I said before I have a theory that SJ and SMT IV were originally the same universe before something caused a split in the timeline, with one branch leading to SJ and one leading to SMT IV. At the end of the day I guess we'll never know XD
I personally think that depending on demons, gods and shadows as support for timeline continuity is a mistake, because their very nature is fluid and distributed. As a small example, the entity that is Ryoji is the sum of the 12 full moon shadows, Thanatos, Pharos, Ryoji, the reaper, the arbiter and finally a part of Nix. Who is to say what they know or don't know about the alternate universes? Maybe (most likely) Lucifer is fighting his rebellion across the multiverse and what one Lucifer knows, all of them know. The same can be true of all major demons/gods/shadows. Hell, the same can be true of Minako/Minato depending on you Game+ interpretation ;)
Wish there was a follow-up to this I enjoyed it. Also the whole Rydo and Dimi-fiend time traveling thing is actually right.Few know apparently that Dimi-fiend appears in Digital Devil Saga as an enemy cameo. Great stuff though and 3yrs later your work is still appreciated.
Further complicating things, it's a common fan theory that Catherine is part of Persona's timeline. And I don't just mean Vincent's cameo in P3P, I mean that Shadow of Vincent obeys nearly all the rules and symbolism of Shadow Selves in the Persona games, and Catherine's antagonists wouldn't be out of place in a Persona game. 9:32 I've seen another fan theory that argues the opposite, that DS2's Kingmaker Ending leads into DS1 and the "God" mentioned in DS1 is Alcor, mainly due to DS1's God being a lot more merciful than YHVH (at least not in the original version). I prefer to consider the Digital Devil Saga games as their own universe not directly connected to anything else. The Archangels and Satan in DDS2 aren't the ACTUAL archangels and Satan from SMT2, they're human demon-shifters whose memories are slowly being overwritten by those of their demon form, and those memories probably come from their previous "lives" in the Amala multiverse.
It would be so sweet if you made an update with the SMT4 games included. Personally, i think that the SMT4 games happen right after Strange Journey, due to the schwartzweld events that would result in the atomic apocalypse.
Excited to see we finally get the version with Raidou! Dante is great, but Raidou belongs there. And this gives me hope for Raidou remasters. A guy can dream...
the DDS games don't take place after SMT II, it's stated in DDS 2 that the year is 2027 (or something) my personal theory is that the memories of demons somehow transcend time and/or space
13:34 Are you kidding me? I quite enjoy stuff like this! (I mean heck, The Game Theorists channel has a show dedicated to how one game is connected to another, after all.)
Great guide! Makes me feel like I don't know very much ;) The original SMT III didn't contain any of the Kalpas which means that both the Amala multiverse concept and Hijiri reincarnation story sequences were not originally in the game, they were added for the Maniax (and western release) versions. Just food for thought... Also I'm curious what you think of SJ and SMT IV. SMT IV had a lot of references (not just in the Demonicas but several small pieces) that makes me think it was a direct sequel to the neutral ending of SJ.
They are just solar data, but the fact they reference the events mean that DDS takes place afterwords. Something I've learned since making this video is that DDS is very much so NOT the world of SMTII, as a character says that DDS2 Satan "worshipped a God of another world" or something like that.
They take place in another universe after SMT II. The Archangels and Satan all talk about what happened in that game. Yeah, demons seem to be able to move around the Amala Network more easily than humans. We DO know that when you kill them they go straight back to Makai, where they're probably resurrected.
Both of them take place in their own separate universes. Devil Survivor 1 and 2 aren't connected to one another and they aren't connected to any other SMTs. However, they're still probably part of the same multiverse.
In Japan the only games with the SMT label are Devil Summoner and Devil Children (AKA DemiKids in the US) but they're still considered part of the "Megami Tensei" franchise and still fit into the continuity. In fact, Persona 1 in Japan was originally released as "Megami Ibunroku: Persona" which roughly translates to "Record of the Goddess' Strange Tales" to make note of the fact that it's a spin-off/separate continuity than the mainline SMT series. So technically it's still in canon
Either 1: It's stand alone (like Strange Journey and the Devil Survivors) 2: It's an alternate universe of SJ I have another timeline vid in the works with my personal fan theory, I'll talk about it then
If we really wanna get technical about the Persona Universe, Persona 3 and 4 take place in a universe where the events of Persona 2: Innocent Sin never happened, because of the universe change at the end of the game.
Yup! Also, make sure you download the Bug Fix patch for SMT1 as well, as the Fan translation was initially really buggy. SMT2 the fan translation has no glitches at all.
That is a good rebuttal, but if they are basically humanity's desire to be free of the cycle. Plus burroughs would have no idea about any protags outside the main series since it is implied she was created by steven. SMT 3 is really convoluted and makes the timeline hard.
Do you think you could do another timeline video in a few months once all the info about SMT4's story comes out and see where its placed in the timelines?
Actually... can you explain why it is 4? Or are you counting down instead? Also, I gotta say, this video is pretty kickass and effectively tells the timeline and the many theories with such a series. Which game is your favorite? In terms of story mine has to be P3. While gameplay has to be Strange Journey... yours?
The White referring to Flynn as the 5th Son is still debated, some think that it refers to past protagonists while some (like myself) think they're referring to the fact that there are 4 entities in The White, and they want Flynn to be their "5th Son." The line about others before taking the neutral path might be referring to any of the other past protagonists, but that still doesn't rule Demi-Fiend out of TDE. Even then, a lot of people think that every ending is canon due to the Amala Network.
2:28 I think rule #5 is one that we need to use more often in fictional media in general. To paraphrase MST3k: Repeat to yourself "it's just a game, I should really just relax"
IF is my favorite megaten game, but devil summoner has a soft spot in my heart, even if i played that shit without understanding a single thing and only got a peak of the story on youtube videos telling the story, devil summoner is def my favorite spin-off series
The caution to not take it too seriously, to deflect criticism of hypotheses about the nature of a common timeline that even the developers do not wish to support, might as easily apply to this line of conjecture itself. I understand I am holding you to a very high standard of argument, but what I have seen so far inspires trust
For the raidou split timeline theory, is there anything saying which ending leads to what or is it just an idea that was spit balled? anyways great video, i enjoyed everybit of it
Hi there! I'm new to the franchise and started with Persona 3 and 4. Really loved those games and wanted to look into smt 3/4 and DDS1/2, maybe also Persona 2. The thing is I want to try and keep the continuity in mind. I know its not that important and all but I really like the Universe Atlus has created in the SMT games and I wanna know how much thought they put into the overall continuity, and what better way is there to play them first hand. The problem is that its not possible for me to play all the older games, and to be honest at this point i don't want to, because i guess they havn't all aged that well. So my question is: Are there major spoilers in this video that give too much insight to the plot of the PS 2 SMT titles? tl;dr: Will this spoil the SMT playstation 2 games for me? Still wanna enjoy them but wanna get a hang on the overall plot!
Not really. As explained at the start of the video, every game has a story of its own that can be enjoyed without playing all the SMT games before it, unless it's a direct sequel. I suggest to watch part 2 of this beginner guide, the one on gateway games, to know where to start if you want to delve deeper in the SMT lore (and since you played P3 and P4, you also have some manner of comparison).
RasenReviews Thanks to you for keeping up the quality in these videos. I hope to see an updated version of the timeline with the new games that came out since last year, one day.
I had planned to just make a timeline video. However, I decided to make it into a Beginner's Guide series and expand on the format I used in this vid. I was halfway through making this video when I decided to make it part of the series, so I just decided "what the heck" and posted it as soon as it got done, before 1, 2, 3, and 5. My favorite SMT game gameplay wise and story wise is Devil Survivor 2.
I remember someone on the DDS2 GameFAQs forum that the Brahman did hint at DDS2 being an alternate universe and also that the true demon ending is canon. I guess that wasn't a wrong theory then XD
Given that it's a _virtual_reality_world_, I'd say it's pretty impossible that it's the Demi-Fiend directly. It's possible he popped up in Karma City, and that's just a representation of him, but having the actual Demi-Fiend appear would require the Junkyard to be classified as "A universe being manipulated by human machinery as if it were merely data", rather than "virtual reality". That Brahman can do that is one thing, that humans can is another.
I watched this a few days ago, and an issue eventually made itself known to me. You mention a possible link between Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga because of Demi-Fiends appearance. However, DDS1 occurs inside an AI system, with very, very few people appearing inside without being killed first, assuming that anyone in there is a literal reincarnation, rather than merely being based off the living. Given that, how is it possible that it was the true Demi-Fiend?
I said that SJ isn't in the same universe as Nocturne in the video. Also, there's no way of knowing if SMT 4 goes after Nocturne or not, but some fan theories point to it being so.
I've heard that Neutral is the ending that explains everything and is the longest ending (which is great for me because I want more time with these characters. Poor character development but I still love these guys). I hope Chaos and Neutral have a bigger bang of an ending instead of the nothingness ending with some added info that was the law ending.
I've already beaten the Law route and I'm going for the Chaos and Neutral routes. I hope the endings are better than the Law route. It wasn't really bad but it wasn't really good either. It was just ok. I was hoping for something more.
I think the theory of Devil Survivor 2 is a sequel to Devil Survivor 1 is wrong because that would have meant that they would have to rebuilt Tokyo and have forgotten the demons and angels.
I just assumed that persona and smt aren't meant to take place in the same world. I didn't even think there was continuity among the mainline games. In Nocturne humanity is near extinct with only 6 humans who all have their reasons and motives which kicks off the war for Magatsuhi but in smt 4 there are many human survivors in a world where demons are the majority. I've only played smt 3 and 4 but it looks like 5 is going to be very similar to Nocturne but instead of the conception that ends the world it's the death of god or something.
As old as the video is, in the DLC for SMT: 4 Apocalypse Demi-Fiend who appears says that he got killed by Lucifer, which means that the TDE is the most canon of the SMT: Nocturne.
Orpheus Nox I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying YHVH created an alternate ending simply because the Messiahs were trying to knock him off the throne.
Really a dick move on his part. SMT IV Apocalypse did a good job exposing his role in the Multiverse as a coward in the role of a huge talking golden head
i mean its safer to assume that the demi-fiend failed at killing Yahweh not Lucifer *( as in the TDE the demi-fiend was successful at beating Lucifer and had left him to engage in his fight against Yahweh)* and screwed off into a corner somewhere in order to reappear every so often as he did in later series
Preeeeetty much. Some of them get kinda-sorta better. The only apocalypse that REALLY lasts is the one from SMT 1. Technically *Persona 2 MASSIVE SPOILERS* The world ends at the end of Innocent Sin, and Philemon makes a replacement world that is identical, but the people from the original world basically all died. So technically that one's pretty shitty too. *END PERSONA 2 SPOILERS*
We still don't know if it was THE Demi-Fiend, or just "Solar data" of him (Like the archangels and Satan) However, it is possible that it is actually him, as the Demi-Fiend can move freely throughout the Amala Network. Since he can effectively teleport to any place that has ever existed in any time period, I wouldn't say it's out of the question for him to be able to somehow get in a virtual reality world.
The issue/major criticism with comic sans as a whole is its misuse in projects of a serious matter. This isn't, it's a video about a video game timeline.
If you play SMT 4 it makes SMT 3 a sequel to smt 2. Also the white (smt 4) calls the protag the their 5th son, or 5th son of mankind. Burroughs backs this up by saying that you chose the same route as the others (neutral). That raises 2 things, who is the extra son and TDE of SMT 3 is not canon, but neutral is.
Where do you think SMTIV timeline fit in? I can't seem to find any information on it. I assume it's after Strange Journey, maybe even somewhere in the SMT 1 and 2 timeline.
Actually, the theory about SMT 1 being in the same universe as MT 1 Because of the dog, has a bit more evidence. First off, I don't think it was just the ps1 remake, it was just later remakes. And also, in the books that megami tensei is based off of, your main character had a Cerberus. Which the dog can be fused into.
Just throwing this out there, could Etrian Odyssey be a part the network. Think about it! In Strange Journey, in the opening cutscenes they say the earth is heavily populated. In EU 1 Etria is on top of Tokyo, and in the story it does say that the Y trees were made to stop the population and there are still demons in the games.
Stephen Parris-Garcia Nope, sorry. Etrian Odyssey games so far always take place in the same universe(except for Mystery Dungeon which is a crossover).
Sorry to double reply. This has just came to my attention. Persona is not SMT. In japan it is only called persona, outside of that it is called SMT persona. While the main and strange journey in and out of japan are called SMT. so the main is SMT, SMT2, SMT9/if/SJ, SMT3, SMT4
Just because it wasn't in the original doesn't mean it's not the cannon ending. For example, when Persona 4 Golden came out, Atlus said that it was the cannon version of Persona 4. So the best ending from the original release of Persona 4, the "True Ending", isn't cannon, but the best ending from P4G, the "Golden Ending", is.
The TDE of Nocturne can only be canon if its the final game in SMT timeline. It is the literal destruction of the entire "omniverse" with no chance of recreation. Both Lucifer and YHVH imply as much. YHVH can only be permanetly killed if there are no humans left to believe in him, so it wouldnt make sense if Demi-fiend only destroyed his universe, cause that would still leave billions of universes full of humans.
