An [OUTDATED] Brief History of Megami Tensei and the Multiverse Theory 

I'm glad people are still watching this incredibly old and outdated theory of mine. It has a lot of holes and unexplained examples from other games as other commenters have pointed out. Will I ever make an updated version? Hopefully, when I have time since it took a long time collecting information for this video. As well, I had the time to do this 2 years ago. Plus, I still haven't finished Apocalypse so everyone can shun me for that too.

Just want to point out as a Japanese speaker that 'shin' in 'shin megami tensei' does not mean 'new' but actually means 'true' or 'real'. The kanji (chinese character used with nouns, verbs and adjective stems) for new is 新, which is not the one from the title (真）

I love how you put the black persona 4 logo over a black background making it invisible

Two things to note are that the "Demon Children" series is actually the "Devil Children" series, and that it was brought to the west as "DemiKids"

You do know that Mitsuru's father referenced the Nanjo group from P1&2 in P3, right?

Good theory! this explains why lucifer says he doesn't care for humanity in smt strange journey (as louisa) and says he loves humanity in smt iv apocolypse!

I support this theory but there is three things that are left unexplained in my opinion 1. The Digital Devil Saga Series 2. The thing that fuels the amala network, kagatsutchi 3. The thing that fuels kagatsuchi, people's emotions

Seems like SMTIV:A debunked some points regarding what's canon and not within your theory. But, at the same time, gives a lot of base/support to the theory as a whole. "Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse represents an alternative outcome than the one explored in Shin Megami Tensei IV. The point of divergence begins with SMTIV:A's protagonist meets Dagda. In one reality, the protagonist declines Dagda's offer and dies. Afterwards, events unfold as it did in SMT IV. A similar branching of realities occurs in SMTIV, too, depending on which of the ideologies Flynn embraced. In one reality, he sided with Merkabah and maintained the status quo by eradicating the Unclean Ones. In another reality, Flynn sided with Lucifer and incited revolution, spreading the flames of war across Tokyo and created a world shaped by the strong. A third reality branched off if Flynn sided with no one, and instead found his own path and removed the dome of rock covering Tokyo. A fourth reality splintered off if Flynn chose to have the world obliterated by a black hole. As illustrated, there are countless possibilities that can lead to countless alternative universes, each possibility possibly influencing another. Once "observed," each alternative universe becomes its own "true" reality. So in a way, there is no permanent end to this world." -Special 1: Parallel Universes, SMTIV:A's DLC Lore Files.

marie destined to be with narukami? not in my playthrough😂

The Shin Megami Tensei multiverse theory is one of the few theories I think a good majority of the SMT fan base can agree upon given the evidence for it in SMT canon.

Short version: Izanagi & Izanami shiz.

Christ the first fun fact blew my mind. Izanami started all of this. Izanagi is prominent in a number of titles and spinoffs. My mind is racing to connect the dots without even finishing the video. O.O

P3 and P4 came about from the reboot that Philmon did. Thus deal with the Other side, and the agreement between Phil and Nyarly.

I recall in smt nocturne, it said something about the main protagonist committing the ultimate sin and was cursed throughout all his reincarnations or something like that. What was this so called ultimate sin?

smt4 apocalypse actually gives a text file describing the multiverse and the human power of observation to bring different universes together to become one.

Now lets hope there are more games in the future that use the amala network

This video is very useful cause it helps you to understand essentially how the SMT timeline work. You should consider uploading an Updated version of this! Amazing video!

You have earned a new sub. Great video, I hope you make more videos in the future!

Ok so in summary. It's all a multiverse with multiple timelines meaning every ending technically happens but there's main ones for most-ish games. So for example, Nocturne's True Demon Ending means he's basically gonna go to different worlds and punch that world's YVHV in face but is also hated by the Axiom/Great Will, right?. Meaning that technically we could end up fighting Demi fiend in a future game as an Order route boss or in any route since the Axiom/Great Will would want a Messiah to deal with the Demi fiend or am I just confused? I just started getting super into the megaten multiverse thing so it'd be cool if someone could help me here 😅

Each game is an universe in Amala Network, maybe the SMT 1 and 2 world was the world destroyed in SMT 3 I think

You did a good job at summing up the Multiverse theory, which is held by most SMT fans, but not by many Persona fans(due to lack of knowledge of non-persona SMT games). However, I would like to mention that there are retcons in the series, which may bring some of the very old game's canonicity into question. The first two Megami Tensei have contradictions to the nature of demons and characters in the SMT series, which cant be rationalized by even a multiverse. The later games retcon these aspects completely, as if they never existed. We can assume the general main story of MT I&II as canon, however, details in the game should not. However, many have proposed that MT I&II are simply "prototypes" of the SMT series, being actually based off a novel and should not be held in the amala multiverse. Also, many theorists don't like the idea of allowing demikids, Last Bible, Jack Bros or some of the other obscure old spin offs as part of canon, even though it *technically* could happen. They are simply just to out of nature for SMT. It would be like allowing a SMT pinball game in the lore. Also, pretty much all of the proposed multiverse timelines ive seen have been all inherently flawed one way or another. I am glad you didn't use one.

Anyone else agonizing over the wait for SMT V?

So would it rather be a timeline spilt between SMT4 and SMT4A?

I still love this timeline video even TODAY!!! Anyway, in my persona 4(ps2) gameplay I managed to rare fuse Cerberus, which I gushed about because of the online game and your vídeo and they explained this rare fusion and made me think that MAY-BE Yu is a reincarnated version of the Pascal's owner but this is Just a non Cannon theory since persona is kinda not connected... Sorta is... Is complicated.. my god

nice theory there mate, in fact I just read SMT IV: Demonic Gene and it looks like it supported your theory. btw, why didn't you include DDS series?

I always thought that Devil survivor Overclocked + Devil Survivor II & SMT IV were all connected because the wrist band in IV is pretty much a comp.

Suddenly derailed. Should've just called it "Izanami and Izanagi shit."

I guess not everything is canon - Izanagi+Izanami, which basically results in Yu+Marie in P4G :)

With SMT IV. I believe that the timeline that includes Nocturne, Strange Journey, IV, and Apocalypse is that Nocturne comes first, with Strange Journey also coming afterwards. SMT IV comes next (We could say that the Naruku is actually a travel area to cross in different times, and this causes the reasoning for the Demonicas and some other references. For the other Tokyos, they could be the events of Nocturne occurring.) Finally we come to Apocalypse and the events that follow.

I wonder if this will get updated once the Remaster of III and V comes out.

how's the multiverse concept in SMT IV Stories (IV and IV Apocalypse)?

So if all spinoff games in SMT are cannon in the multiverse. Does that mean that TMS#FE is cannon? If so does that the fire emblem universe is connected and cannon to the SMT universe. If the Fire Emblem universe is cannon can the Etrian Oddetsy

What's more convoluted; the SMT Multiverse or DC Multiverse?

Wait am i the only one who's noticed the extreme resemblance between the main characters from SMT I, and SMT IV? I mean when you put them side to side, they all look basically the same and also fill the same roles as the original characters as well. Does this perhaps has anything to do with the reincarnation theme mentioned in this video too?

When a updated version with p5?

Is possible that Nyx is related with Izanami? In that trip to gekkoukan high school in p4, the prof explains the lore of Izanami and Izanagi, and Izanami curse. And is possible that Yu is the reincarnation of Izanagi. And the bad endings of P3, P4 P5, can lead to a SMT scenario where demons or personas roam the real world. So there's a connection in some way.

Shin Megami Tensei means TRUE reincarnation of the goddess, not new.

video: jan 2015 youtube algorithm: "game: persona 5 (2016)"

Also some fans consider Maken X as part of the Megaten universe. How? I don't know, but some do.

The fact that so many connections can be made and disproven at certain points is because of the fact the same creators had something to do with each game and dealt with the same themes and story elements. One can simply say because a deity is in the game, to some extent there is validity in the reincarnation. However, Persona has since removed Shin Megami Tensei from recent titles, and I believe that was for a reason. Again, you still have deities being used, the same lore surrounding the figures, so it would be easy to say it is connected but also wrong because the mythos won't change, leading to an assumption. The Persona series in themselves have world ending scenarios that have nothing to do with Izanagi and Izanami being central unti SMT 4, and honestly, Marie can't simultaneously be a persona you can summon and a NPC, and also be Kusumi no Ookami that is based on the male god, Kusubi. Also, she was an afterthought, not part of the original. You can literally switch around all deities and claim a reboot or restart, given the series uses major religious and occult figures. It could be Norse, Chinese and they all have creation stories. Some theories can work, but I believe overall, looking at all the parts and offshoots, they are not necessarily canonically connected as any Final Fantasy is theorized to be connected because of similarities and certain lore making a multiverse. Any series could do that, actually. The series is very occult, if not Luciferian. Like most New Age religion, it comprises of philosophy, religion and the occult. It also attempts to combine all gods and deities as alternate representation of central figures (ones with similar mythos if not cultural variations). Everything leads back to a central conscious, people can tap into the good and bad, become possessed and think they can control these beings. I won't go too far into it, but the theories presented have already been put out there in a package already outside a game series.

3:00 does it say its not canon on the wiki?

Not sure, but did you miss the "Last Bible" Parts?

So where would Tokyo Mirage Sessions be?

I agree with you, mostly because you said my waifu is canon.

The way I see it is P1 and P2 innocent sin are in one universe and the P2 enteral punishment P3 P4 and P5 in universe 2 separate but connected

Amazing

In the Next Episode of "secret timeline events of games", we'll discover that every game in the Final Fantasy Series are canon.

Hahahaha I can't wait for my mother to realize I'm playing a game that has a lot of fricking dark shet, and demonic shet

so just making sure those obscure spin offs are not part of the Megaten or the multi-verse theory? Last bible?

If you're using SMT: Nocturne Maniax cut as a way of connecting Megami Tensei and Shin Megami Tensei you can't because the TDE is Cannon In that game and since Cerberus was in the labyrinth of Amala that shows that Hitosura is going down the TDE path. If that's the case then that's not possible. The TDE ends with Hitosura killing Lucifer and Kagastuchi, Kagastuchi is the essence of creation in Hito's world and killing him destroyed a section in the amala network. Creation includes time and space so essentially Hitosura created dark matter by killing Kagastuchi and the ending states that DemiFiend and Lucifer are striking a war against the one true God, not YHVH, but the Divine Will and by using SMT Lore you can see that they dm succeeded in killing the Divine Will the power of the Divine Will was divided into the physical forms, hence why YHVH, Kagastuchi, Demiurge, Vishnu, Hari-Hara, Brahman ect exist. The essence of Divine Will was destroyed and had to be split into physical forms which is why God's exist in the world. And if the Divine Will is destroyed Hitosura destroyed the possibility of life being created, creating a hole in the Amala network. Everything leading up to SMT 3 is non-existent and any possibility of any future happening is non-existent. DemiFiend and Aleph being cursed by the Divine Will along with Lucifer existing as long as there is Law in the world is the reason why they still exist. AS SUCH long explanation aside. With that knowledge Cerberus cannot connect the two series together because none of it existed. A way to connect the two series together without a doubt is through SMT IV, Burroughs is Izanami in that game and she references to Steven that Flynn is a reincarnation of Nakajima (It's incredibly subtle) and since that is the case it connects the two bar none. I really do believe that the whole Nakajima giving Kazuya Pascal thing is Cannon they wouldn't add it if it wasn't since reincarnation is a thing in the entire series it makes sense. Fuck this was a long comment

In 1 universe Megami Tenshei is connected to Shadow Hearts...cause why not? (and both have pretty weird styles even if they are from different companies). The MC forges pacts with similar entities btw, so not that far fetched...maybe.

you should do whose the strongest potaganist in the series

isnt smtiv just a sequel to 2

compendenium? I've been saying it wrong!

I doubt they were thinking of a timeline

I believe Catherine takes place around the time of persona 4 but in a different area (obviously) the main reason I think it's on the timeline is because of the whole demon succubus thing which has strong connections to smt

Gotta bunch of new titles to try and rope in

trying to find Devil survivor overclocked

5:40 people dont like persona?

Aya shitti tama basically ran through his head.

… is there an abridged version…?

I expect more videos from you, Dont die on my

Does SMT share the same multiverse with Devil May Cry?

All series have manga series, Anime series, movie series, video series, book series, hentai and real life is all multiverse is link to other multiverse all truth real

First 20 seconds Me: *Subscribes*

You need give us updated timeline!

Why do i keep hearing him saying 'shinigami tensei'

shin either means new or TRUE

smt if... >devil summoner >persona >devil survivor

she is a Saguri

Source on the music

most people say there isnt a timeline

so catherine is the normal universe

All endings being canon is the only rational way to look at things 👍

Appreciate your theory and you taking the time and effort to create it. However, I feel like you literally just said these are each their own games made by the same company and may or may not connect based on Easter eggs or something else. You just used the terminals as a means of proof for the multiple timelines. I really think most fans overthink this. It literally could be anything you think of. And really, in that way I could easily say every game made by blizzard is connected, just different universes. I still enjoyed your in depth explanation of stuff, but I feel it's an over complicated way of saying they may or may not connect simply because they were made by the same company. I still view each as it's own game, and thus it's very obviously it's own "universe".

Damn it Teddie

Blaaaaaah, noooooo. MT1 & MT2 do not exist within the amala network but rather directly outside of it. That is to say that while the events of MT1 & MT2 may have had an impact on SMT1 - SMT5... nothing that happens within SMT can effect MT.

u sound like matpat 😂

i still hate persona but the theory is so good lol

Nekwork Nekwork Nekwork

I feel headache since 3:29.

This theory... Is a stretch. Also, it's NET work, not NECKwork omg

maldita sea porque tuve que nacer en latinoamerica xD yo que amo shin megami tensei, voy a tratar de entender lo que pueda ;-;

persona 5 already lost its SMT title, guess its completely not part of megaten anymore.

I hate this all began because an edgy high schooler wanted to play God until he starts simping for some japanese Stacy. It was always about the waifus since day 1.

this type of video is useless without timeline graphics

Canon refers to the main time line, not alternate branches or what if sequels. So no.persona is not canon outside it's own universe and does not make it canon in the shin megami tensei universe. Using raidous being able to be in nocturne is just as laughable as saying devil may cry is part of the smt universe.

Poorly spoken and hard to understand.

oh, i luvs me some SMT. still waiting for that SMT if.. english translation, any day now