I enjoyed Koon's view the most, sad that they had to leave after the first round. Wish they had brought them back for the finals. Maria Ho has got my maddest respect now, she made such good decisions throughout all hands I was impressed
Who we like to see and who can actually make it onto the show is very different. A lot of the top pros are affiliated with other poker sites/tournament organisers and this limits the possibility of them appearing on this show by GG Poker. Unless GG Poker steps up its effort to recruit more pros as its ambassadors, the options are going to be pretty limited But in a parallel universe where there is no such restrictions, I would like to see a season with the last 16 WSOP Main Event winners (or the top 2 from the last 8 years) on Season 2 battling it out. How does that sound?
The thing is, I don’t really know what Fedor was thinking calling the flop in the first place if he was going to fold after getting there. It speaks to something of lack of a plan on his part, but maybe he got spooked by both players ahead of him repping so strong two streets in a row.
@@Bean_Soupit's not lack of a plan. Action on the turn changes everything. If Viral checks, and Maria checks or bet he would have called. With these strong action your small flush doesn't look so appealing. You have to decide now, and here's is his plan. If he calls, is he going to call the river? Will they call his bet if they check? I think it's a good fold, though I'm not sure I'd be able to make it. I'm not a world class player like Fedor
@@Bean_Soup on the flop they can both potentially have a lot of hands that a flush would beat, but they both showed so much strength on a turn card that would be a major scare card for those hands so suddenly their ranges are much more narrowed down to hands he loses to. obviously it was the wrong fold, but most of the time in that exact spot its going to be the right fold.
One thing worth remembering; the flop lead is so tiny, that it's not that much different to the flop checking through (especially when Yoh has always used this min donking strategy with more marginal hands). It removes the trash from Yoh's range and a few of Maria's weakest hands (e.g. Ac5c), but it also likely removes the stronger hands from from both their ranges. So I think I'd probably call turn IP and evaluate river. That said, I don't mind the fold when deep stacked with a hand that can't improve.
Bad fold guaranteed, I don't care what his name is. It's especially bad because he's IP and the bet is quite meaningless regarding their stacks. OOP would be a tougher one. But here he has to take a river and make a decision then. Because he can be quite confident it's gonna take the others some big balls to put a lot of pressure on him if he is ahead atm and his hand holds. It's not the worst fold ever because sometimes he's beat and even when he is ahead they probably have some equity but still, it's a bad fold.
@@bilcozbi67 What you ended with is literally the logic behind the fold. I'd want to sim it, but it looks fine to me. If you don't think so, you haven't really given a compelling reason why.
@@matthewwestcott9138 no. I'm saying if his hand is good OTR (and there's still a very real chance of that), they're gonna check to him basically always (him being IP makes that even more likely). SO, while it's certainly not a great spot because there's no way we can be aggressive from there, we need to stick around for a river. Then fold there if bet into again. and if we're worried about getting run over by maniacs then we call turn with nut flush as well.
So my question would be, if Fedor was content to fold the 65 of diamonds on the turn, why would he call the flop bet at all? Is it only because it was only 1 BB? I mean, would he had decided to call the turn bet if some other diamonds came like 2 of diamonds? The way you explained it, both his opponent could very well has Ax or Kx or any higher diamonds, and his 65 of diamonds are never good into 2 opponents anyway, so why continue at all? Would the only scenario where this hand would get to showdown is everybody just check all the way down?
He has more than direct pot odds on the flop, and is happy to hit his flush. What makes him fold is the action on the turn. If his opponents were weaker, the turn would’ve been played differently, making his flush stronger in theory
because you dont always get action like this. You can play 56s and see whats up but once youre opponnets starts jamming you need to understand that your range is weaker.
Get me Jonathan Little and Hellmuth on GoG season 2. I can't imagine they didn't at least try to get Phil, hopefully his schedule works a little better next season!
imho I would always fold here unless I know my opponents play extremely wide ranges, but I also dont play 56s exactly because of that spot. KXs is different though, even QXs I can get behind but not 56s. I think bottom range is at JTs but Id love to know what the solver says.
Come on, you have to find places and play 56s (and obviously other bigger-suited connectors), you're losing a lot of EV if you never have them in you're range. I hope that people whom you play with don't know that.
I saw the flop and thought, "if that bet had been larger Fedor might fold for fear of getting reverse implied odded", and sure enough that's what he did on the turn. If the hand had only 2 players, or if Fedor wasn't in position, he would have almost certainly continued. It's an odd example of positional advantage actually hurting Fedor on the turn. Ironically it ended up hurting on the turn, then helping him on the River. What a strange game.
I DISAGREE with Holz folding at 6:49. Why call the flop if you FOLD when you hit the flush!!! The point of calling the flop is to get a diamond, not a 6 or a 5. He gets EXACTLY what he wanted and then FOLDS?! I think if you hope for a card(s) in poker and you get what you hoped for, then go with it!!! The amount your opponent bets should not deter you! That's my opinion.
@@halettebrennen8460 He indeed got the card he wanted, but he also got some more information. The information came in the form of 2 players in front of him, and the appearance of the 3rd diamond did not dissuade both of them from betting/calling. When you're multi-way you need to play much more defensively than normal. 2 handed, for sure it is a call, maybe even a raise. 3 handed, you're just going to be dead here too often. If he had the nut flush or 2nd nut flush the decision is more complicated. I think a call by Fedor would have been defensible, though I don't blame him at all for the fold.
@@iamamishiamamish8155Thanks for your view. I agree that a call was an option. Folding is essentially "living to see another day" when there is less risk, so I should not blame him for that. In my experience, flush over flush is extremely rare. Because of that, I would probably raise all in because neither of them probably has a flush, but are more likely on a draw and I'd try to destroy their odds and get them to fold.
@@halettebrennen8460 thanks, and likewise. Here are a few more thoughts. First, yes flush over flush is rare, but so is having so much activity in front of you when you make a flush. Especially since he had a low flush, and there was so much activity in front, the probability of another flush was much higher. Also - regarding living to see another day, that's really important here. This isn't a cash game, this is a winner take-all tournament. So, living to see another day has more value than in a cash game. In a cash game, he probably calls turn here, and then ends up in a terrible situation on the river.
he does not think he has the nuts... he just improved on the turn to a straight and got excited when he should not be cause possible flushes on both ranges behind
All I can say is I rolled of the floor when, after the dramatic fold, the camera zooms out and there is Jungle there with a full green dress and a pair of lenses bigger than my telescope lenses. 😂
JL on game of gold?? That would be cool. I did love the show and was cool to get see the thoughts of the other players as they see the hands. My friend who just started poker started watching it and said it was so useful because he never thought in the way they did. He doesn't understand too much but understands it was different and turned him on your youtube and training site. HE loves it. Thank you for all you do.
Idk. Pretty easy call on the turn and fold on the river for both. Assuming Maria raises about the same to the 1BB bet with Fedor still in behind. Which I would think she would. I call with fedors hand on the turn and look to see the river / river size bet. Much easier fold in Omaha. I eat my cooler flush over flush on a blank river if yoviral has a better flush. If he really did have the nut flush I’ll bet he comes with a smaller turn bet too
I don't understand how the min bet on the river is effectively any different than checking. Especially against pros. I think Maria bets about the same amount if he checks.
I probably just call and then fold to any aggression on the river if a diamond or board pair come or to another bet call/raise. Obviously he knows better than me, but maybe it comes down entirely to how loose Maria has been playing.
I DISAGREE with Holz folding at 6:49. Why call the flop if you FOLD when you hit the flush!!! The point of calling the flop is to get a diamond, not a 6 or a 5. He gets EXACTLY what he wanted and then FOLDS?! I think if you hope for a card(s) in poker and you get what you hoped for, then go with it!!! The amount your opponent bets should not deter you! That's my opinion.
Why? If he gets called he's dead. All worse hands fold, all better call. That would be horrible. It makes sense w exactly these cards, but otherwise horrible
Never said I was right lol. That’s a problem I have is not slow playing enough bc I hate to get drawn out on. I think it’s better to raise 2-3x and get Yoh out of the hand and then fold if the board pairs (for sure) or there’s another diamond (maybe) but that’s why I’m not a pro 🤷♂️ if it doesn’t pair I’m calling or betting 4/3 pot
Seemed like everytime she was put on the spot with a decision she didnt know what to do. If he would have raised a good amount he might have got her off the two pair.
If you call with a flush draw then why are you folding when your opponent keeps betting (is it not the best you can wish for).... Scared of punting? Today it is so common. Also Fedor should know his opponent continoue with a straight make sense as if he check maybe he cant get any value out of two pairs, weaker straights, or he is holding an A diamond and uses his equity to make the table fold. Also if lets say A flush got there then you dont raise that big in order to make guys pay you out with straights, two pairs. It was a bad fold.
The deciding factor was the stack sizes thus the reverse implied odds as JL explained. The fold and reasoning behind it was the reason he made the video, possibly you missed the explanation being that his flush could not improve and he had too big of a stack and thus reverse implied odds.
@@sarahdeshay1394 This is why he should have raise instead call or fold. A bigger flush may re raise, so he can just fold, but two pairs, sets, straights has to pay if they want continue... bad play, cheking, calling, showing weakness, facing a big bet and then you have no idea where are you in the party. Also many pro poker player forgets the most important thing in poker: STORY. In this situation an A high or K high flush on the turn what would do??? Defenetly not bet that big as you want calls from straights, two pairs, sets. Half pot raise would make sense. So something is wrong with the story of A or K high flush... a pro pokerplayer like Fedor should realise this, but I understand it is hard to concentrate for all angle and its more trendy to focus on the math, probabilities... here is the result of it.
What exactly could he be hoping for to call the flop? Even then, his only improvement is to hit a flop. He hits the flop, but only now realizes he can't improve? Sorry, I don't see this at all. I'm not results oriented, so I am typing immediately after he folded. As for me, I probably fold preflop, but if I call, I shove now. Now to watch the rest of the video....
Hey Jonathan, I use to hate when people called it the nut straight, or nut flush when it was not the nuts but then I realized that it actually does still make sense. We still are comfortable saying nut no pair so what's really the difference. I mean yeah we say things like top boat or top 2 to describe the best possible denomination of those respected hand rankings but saying top straight or too flush just sounds weird. And saying best possible straight is just tiresome. But also at the same time I wouldn't mind if everyone just stopped it😂😂.
while it's obv not an ICM influenced fedor fold on the turn, unless viral has a bunch of spews on double donk betting flop and turn, it's more defendable. raising turn doesn't actually often enough net him valuable info such to be able to easily profitably continue even on good rivers (most rivers if fedor was good on turn he'd still be good on river of course). calling turn obviously doesn't net fedor any info on whether he's good or not either (viral is the one in this pot than can have the most non nut but still better than fedor's flush, if maria's got fedor beat on turn she'd almost ALWAYS have the nut flush) so while it's siding on the side of being careful, akin to nitty. he's basically already in bluff catching mode even with a hand as good as a bad flush already on the turn, and here it's a 3 way pot where the lead bettor on flop and turn is first to act on river too.
it's easy for an omaha player to not be shocked at this fold though, for sure. hold em only players don't often enough run bad flush into better flush, and in lots of them in fedor's shoes just never fold even in a 3 way pot (unless the board pairs or a 4th diamond comes out).
and last, fedor has close to zero implied odds entirely, like j.little finishes with, like he says, if fedor is good now and stays good on river, he's not at all guaranteed to even be called by either one of the others.
what is odd, since it's so rarely seen in good players, is viral's seemingly very exploitative flop and river donk sizings, even in multiway pot (wasn't by river, but was on flop/turn). this is mostly seen by very bad players that have no idea what they are even doing (i'm not saying viral IS bad like that, just that it looks the same).
exactly that, it seems madness for viral to stick his Adx hands into this min donk bet/block river as a bluff. assuming his strategy plan in general is to extract value when he has a good hand, turning your Ad into weak block leads doesn't make any sense. the Adx hands if bluffed should be bluffed for a large size, to protect his actual nut flushes etc.
Hi Jonathan! Thank you for the great content! I think the fold is reasonable here. Could you analyse that hand as well when Fedor got Q set against Maria AK. I feel Fedor played that hand wrong or at least I do not understand it.
Okay, Ho hit the boat. I don't think she calls the shove, but maybe. I still think it was a poor fold on the turn. Playing for a flush, OF COURSE a broadway diamond is going to help your opponents on that board. What, he was playing to hit a flush with only 6 outs?
no it's too weak. you say you love it then you go on to list all kinds of bad reasons for the fold. it's too weak because he's in position and he's also getting great odds, there's just too more risk of making a big error by folding. if he was oop i wouldn't mind the fold but ip there's a decent chance that he's gonna be able to showdown cheaply if he holds.
@@alejandroguerrero7825 I'll have to defer to others who understand Hendon results better than me, but I thought Hendon reflected tournament cashes, not cash game wins. That means it is pretty unlikely that he is a net loser, though it would be possible in theory that his tournament buy-ins exceed his winnings. I think it is extremely unlikely, though possible.
Useless tell though. Just means he has heightened alterness in the spot, which everyone knew anyways. And he was breathing just as hard when he had a big hand on the turn vs when the river was horrible for his hand
Whose idea was it to add annoying electronic music to this video for no reason? Why not just use the audio from the table? If it was an issue of copyright, or some other conscious decision to not include the table audio, why not just have no audio at all during the segments showing the table action? Even some minimal, mild commentary from Jonathan? There was no reason to add moderately distracting and incredibly irritating generic arpeggiated pseudo-music, especially if the point of this video is to consider the theory behind the action we're being shown; silence during the segments showing the action would have been entirely appropriate. Why there needs to be aural kitsch infecting content that is supposed to be educational, I will never understand. Are you people not capable of paying attention to something for only 14 minutes unless you have some type of dubstep or hip hop bullshit being blasted into your ears the entire time? I think most of us watching this have enough of an attention span to not require the use of such techniques in order to retain our attention.
Yoh Viral looked like he was going to have a heart attack - breathing sooo heavy, massive tell. Maria was too greedy at the end. Something sizeable was fine - but betting 80% of pot, decision was easier.
great fold? maria ho is the biggest nit in the history of televised poker. You can make a compilation video of maria ho's biggest bluffs and the video will be shorter than the youtube ads.
![SHOCKING Fold In Game of Gold [Dramatic Ending!]](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
