Should forward-facing sonar be banned? ft. Randy Blaukat and Ben Milliken 

But Randy will sell you a personalized breakdown combining GPS and down imaging so that you can easily find fish with no mystery.

@@Steve13lb12oz i listen to both of these dudes I am taking no sides i like both of them for what they do and the experience the give

@@slliks67 I was a Randy subscriber but got tired of his whining and then the hypocrisy was too much and had to unsubscribe.

@@Steve13lb12oz 🤣🤣🤣🤣

@@Steve13lb12oz he is stuck in the past

I've seen the same thing on the water. No one teaches the unwritten rules of on the water courtesy either. I think it is due to the increase in fatherless families.

Pepperidge farms remembers

Not a fan of Randy either but Ben is a d-bag

Lol, gtfo....listen to stories the older fisherman tell....

It is sad how young people no longer learn the importance of manners and respect. Some of it could be have no dads in the home, I believe it’s more likely because they have no Hod in their home. As a Boomer, I have to admit that many of my peers have forgotten their manners as well. Just because you did it first or been doing it a long time doesn’t mean you deserve special treatment. I see too many old men rolll up on other fishermen and try to take a spit because it is “theirs”.

I think sponsors have a way of humbling people as well. I don't think Ben has the amount of "F@ck You Money" as he thinks he does. He did his brand damage in that interaction.

Agreed

Did randy try to get Ben disqualified in one of the opens this year? If true I wouldn’t have shown any respect towards him either. But I don’t know the details. So who knows. 🤷‍♂️

Milken is a 🤡

Randy has been very disrespectful to Ben and several other fishing winner’s because of Livescope. Randy is just a grumpy old jealous has-been.

Yeah I don't understand the whole "it's too late to stop it now" argument. You just tell the guys they can't use it. Easy.

Agreed. Luckily the data supports that there has been zero positive or negative harm to our fisheries from FFS. Hoping it stays that way 👍🏻

@@MillikenFishing Those studies on crappie are encouraging. I would love to see some more studies on bass though. My friend is a fisheries biologist for the state GFP. He said there have not been any studies done on FFS in the state. He mentioned, as you also know, as an environmental study grad, that 1 or 2 studies is not sufficient to draw definite conclusions and that those studies will take years to complete. It is also important to compare apples to apples when comparing data sets. Data on crappie dose not necessarily correlate to bass.

@@MillikenFishinghey Mike what blows me away is that no talks about what should be #1 like every other graph is SAFETY, in my Massachusetts, Rhode Island area, mostof the ponds are 8 to 10 feet deep and full of rocks,I’ve gone swimming twice before having Active Target 🤷🤷

@@DIYAlliedCrappie are probably the worst species to use if they want to extrapolate to bass. Their fecundity dictates that they need to be culled and harvested much more rigorously than bass. The baseline harvest rate vs C&R is also much higher.

I think a lot of people who didn't know Ben already came away from that video knowing a lot more about his true self. I think Randy and Ben are competing to be the "heel" in this industry-but at opposite ends of the Bell Curve.

Randy had already taken his nasty shots at Ben. Ben owed Randy zero respect

Randy has been dissing Ben before Ben even came at him the way he did. I’m pretty sure he tried to even disqualify him in an event . Randy has been coming at guys for a while now . Don’t bring any one into it if you don’t want anything said back to you 💯

@@KyleB3434 Got any proof of your allegation, or video of when Randy mentioned Ben, by name?

@@cuivre2004 he did use his name a good while back. You do the search if you want it so bad. But you don’t need to say a persons name to talk about them. Statements like: these spotlighters that are qualifying for the Elite couldn’t catch a fish without their ffs.

Smaller tournaments would work but the BASS and NPFL and MLF level of tournaments wouldn’t work because not enough money in it from sponsors

Fun idea but you would still need mapping if you did this on a larger scale then ur Tuesday nighters. No one is running down a lake that's full of obstructions without mapping lol

No one would watch it.

@@hunterjarnigan7220 it’s all theoretical ofc but I’m sure that there would be enough in it for sponsors with live coverage of weigh in and on the water coverage… just because electronics/fish finders would be restricted doesn’t mean coverage would have to be!

@@timothyverdine6431 definitely agree lol

I would say Ben won this debate . He brought facts and data . Randy uses his subscribers to prove his point. His subscribers flock to him because they share his opinions. It is getting old seeing every tournament won with FFS. It would be nice to ban it for at least a few tournaments.

@@timg185 The "facts" Ben brought was "we don't know". Some facts, eh? The only thing Ben brought to the table was the big chip on his shoulder, and anonymous uncited studies by some anonymous "gentlemen" he basically said "trust me" about. Scientific studies mention "P-values" (probabilities)- not "facts". Lay people are wrong when they use these two terms interchangeably.

@@cuivre2004 he had a couple studies written down and said he would send them to Randy. I referred back on one point to find out what the study was based on. So it wasn’t just made up. He also used the opinions of professionals that use data every day to do their jobs managing fisheries. You seem kind of butt hurt because your beliefs are challenged . I kind of feel like the truth is some where in the middle . As usual the people whining the most are probably people that couldn’t catch fish to begin with.

@@timg185 Please, don't get your own bowels in an uproar over this debate. When you start to use ad hominem attacks against the person you are discussing an issue with, you look like as much of an amateur as Ben did. Most people who have had any higher education at all knows how to keep a level head and maintain a degree of being dispassionate about it-and they stay on the subject and don't devolve into personal attacks. Doing that makes you look like your tank has run empty.

Ben brought the results of observable differences found before and after Livescope

He mentioned earlier that he respected Randy’s accomplishment’s. I doubt he was trying to be a dick. Though I guess you never know. Probably didn’t want to speak over other guys . Or maybe he was muted . The host said they were going to mute him when he wasn’t speaking because of an echo problem.

Yeah, he is trash. Not a surprise. I think he has trouble with Randy's obvious higher IQ and ability to debate.

Ben would absolutely smoke Randy it wouldn’t be competitive. Randy doesn’t fish near the amount of time Ben does. Can’t replace time on the water. Randy knows he wouldn’t out fish Ben.

@@The_Bass_Stunters No doubt about it! But a small part of me would be rooting for Randy. I think he’s taken enough punishment, one little victory would be ok lol

@@dtffishingmi Randy hasn’t been beating many people since well before FFS hit the scene.

@@Steve13lb12oz I'm sure he will make a comeback when they ban FFS 😏

@@dtffishingmi yeah, I believe it’s been about 20 years since Randy had a top 10 finish. Think about all the technology developed since then. From braided line and flouro, to powerful quiet trolling motors, power poles, rods, reels, and Randy’s GPS maps for sale. To allow for him to make a comeback, they need to go back to using Ugly Sticks and ABU 5500C reels with a Manns jelly worm

There is nothing classy about Randy. He throws shade at all fisherman on a daily basis. That’s the definition of not having class. This is his come upon

its funny too because he talks about how his placings were bad but Randys point isnt that he would still be winning or placing good if fss wasnt around in fact hes openly mentioned hes not as good as he once was, Ben just missed the point entirely

Randy fan boys looking for something to hold on to 😂

Miliken fanboys can’t get balls off their chins

@@muthafukajones1513. Randy’s senior citizen fluffer crew.

Says a guy with muthafuckn in his name and another guy with a joke of bag limit. Fucking douchebags.

I think many of the younger generation think his demeanor was normal and okay- they can't differentiate a professional debate (which this tried to be) versus an on-line troll fest.

That wasn't genuine and Ben knew it he was saying FU under his breath hope u finish last in my opinion

Randy has been the childish one with his comments about “spot lighters”, and “scopers that can’t fish without cheating”. Randy having a hard time accepting that the fishing world has left him behind

@@Steve13lb12oz Did he REALLY call those people "cheaters"? Literally? I think the livescope sonar beam and directionality is entirely analogous to a beam of light. That isn't that great of a leap to see the similarities.

@@cuivre2004 yes, on multiple occasions he used those terms. He also said that any tournament win using FFS was illegitimate and should have an asterisk on it. No, spot lighting deer at night, when the beam of light hits them, they freeze. If you don’t hunt, think about deer in the highways that sees a car’s headlights. They freeze. A frozen deer is very easy to shoot. It’s illegal. Using the same basic technology of sending a sonar beam out and seeing a blip on a screen to know the general area of a fish is very different and also not illegal.

👍👍

Ignorance is bliss

@@muthafukajones1513 and greed is a deadly sin.

LoadedForBass, in this episode we just kicked things off and got out of the way. We felt that's what the audience wanted. -- Ken

@@kenduke6631 I enjoyed it. One of the best back and forth entertainment we have seen on this topic in a while from both points of view. Keep the great videos coming with you and BTC!!!

Ding ding ding! You nailed it.

I just saw the top 10 list, way too funny

LOOKING FORWARD too the next one? No pun intended right? 😂😂

Falcon?

@@Woefman911 yes Falcon.

@@petejablowski2123 I corrected it. Hit thr wrong key. Thanks.

Would really like to see it dimished to simply biggest fish for the top 5 guys or just the biggest 1 from each competitor

That is a point I've been beating the drum for as well. I'm a kayak angler and if a bunch of plastic boat guys can learn catch, photo and release, I don't know why the bass boat guys should have such a hard time adopting it- they are electronic geniuses, after all, aren't they? TourneyX isn't a hard app to learn, and the regulated Ketch measuring boards only cost about $20. Everyone has a cell phone now days.

Too many tournaments and weigh ins are ridiculous

you are 100% correct. the tech is going to continue to advance, and anglers will continue to buy it, even if only to use in practice...that is where this tech belongs. it allows anglers to continue to use it to learn more about bass and their reactions, which is one of Bens arguments.

You are spot on with what you’ve stated, make it so number one!

The fidelity of forward facing sonar is much better then 30-40 years ago. There is now a huge difference.

Randy is so innocent.

Great take 👊

he is hypocritical and delusional. Ben knows some facts and has done research

Pretty sure his channel was growing just fine before FF. He was also winning tourneys before FF.

Wrong.

Bet he would!

Randy should start his own tournament trail where ffs isn't allowed in the boat. If there's a desire to follow that style of fishing, it will become a success, and we will know that he was right.

Randy got his butt kicked in the BFL's this year. He wouldn't stand a chance against an Elite angler without FFS..

A that's too much pressure on everyone in the sport to leave it on the shoulders of two people and b either adapt with new technology or get out of the sport.

@@marshalllaw4116 Randy will never do this. He has bit off more than he can chew now. Running a cookie jar tournament is a thankless job. Running a circuit is a full time job only a few can master. There are few Ray Scott's in this world.

@@TheFishdoctor1952 Randy is in his 60s

Can you have more of spiteful, jealous comment. Makes sense why you’re a blanket fan.

93rd out of 212 isn’t a bomb in the opens. Also his lowest finish of the year.

@@lukewyle8854 at the river that's a bomb

O, they use steroids, HGH, juiced balls, technology to tell catcher what pitch is coming , etc

@@Steve13lb12oz I thought they both made great points and the mediating was bad. Ex. Randy should have been asked if the data Ben gave him was encouraging and relieved a bit of his concerns for the time being. Ben should have been asked if he recognizes its early in the FFS game and does he feel those numbers could change and would that be of concern. It's feelings vs data. They both make great arguments honestly which is why it should continue in good faith. I personally feel something has to make you a professional. what is your niche? What did you figure out that others did not? Old anglers had their own styles. My question, and I don't have the answer is.... Is the only difference angler to angler with FFS the ability to spend enough time with it? Can anybody do what these guys are doing as long as they have the money and more importantly the time? That's where I think it could be different from other "professional sports" Not everybody can be a pro in any other sport just by having the time. I always told myself I wouldn't get FFS cuz it would ruin my time outdoors. Now I think I may learn from it some and have considered it. I don't know? Do you have it PB13? How has it changed your fishing trips? Do you miss anything about the old way? Genuinely interested!

@@jasonburkiewicz2033 to start with, I was along time fan of Randy from when he was successful many years ago. Never been a fan of Ben. The shock-value entertainment isn’t for me. I was never a fan of young Mike Iaconelli. Glad he matured a bit Aside from that, I truly recognize how great these fishermen are. Ben is killing it. He deserves his props because he does stand out from the rest of the field using the technology. I really lost lots of respect and interest in Randy when he started spouting opinions and his personal experiences as Scientific Facts. He often oversteps the limits of his knowledge. I also dislike him slipping in his VERY LIBERAL political views and his anti-religion views into his materiel. To be blunt, he often shows his lack of education and understanding of the world issues. His video about the small tackle shop in Florida closing because of FFS was a straight up lie. I know that store well and am friends with that owner. He is old school and does not like ffs but it had zero to do with him closing. I do have ffs as it came on my boat. I’ve been playing with it and can see how it is a useful tool. I personally do very well flipping and would much prefer that. The FFS has not affected me in any way other than as an amusement later in the day when the flipping bite is off. I kill some time and try to learn more about the waters I fish. Most people on Randy’s channel have obviously never actually used or even seen how it works. Showing 3D data from a 18 deg cone on a 2D screen leaves a lot of room for error. A 60 foot cast can show a fish on your screen and also show your lure in the same area. The math of that works out that the fish you are seeing could be over 18 feet away from your lure even though the screen says they are at the same spot. Tight lines 🎣

Because metal bats present a safety hazard. Has nothing to do with how good they are.

Why? Because Randy agrees with one and not the other.

I don’t care what Randy thinks or Ben. There’s no comparison period

Decent idea about practice! But how would the sponsorship thing work when pros have so many different sponsors supporting them. They can’t all use one said product. At the end of the day money drives the sport and the sponsors are what give it. It’ll be up to them, to then work with the organizations, then the anglers. My 2 cents lol.

And all get the same boat, same trolling motor, same rods and reels, and same lures.

The problem I see with this is that it’s not easy just to take it off. This stuff is hardwired into every boat. I know when I’m swapping graphs and gear around or trying different stuff I have to take my whole boat apart. You can say well your not aloud to use it, someone is going to cheat and use it anyways.

Well yeah technically it is fishing. If they used a rod and reel, and cast out to a fish, and the fish bit their lure, that sounds like fishing to me. Just because it is not the same way you "fish", doesn't mean it's not fishing. You must sound like one those kids that played high school football and even though you wanted to go to the next level, you couldn't because you are 5'5 tall and slow. So you blame the rest of the world for your "short comings" and cry about everything.

Excellent point. Fisheries are under attack. If you people don't think this will cause harm to our fisheries then you know nothing John Snow.

💯

Yeah right or wrong Randy clearly cares about the issue. The "hes only doing it for clicks" argument doesnt make any sense.

All you tubers do click bait recent from Ben I got hit by lightning but he didn't, one of many click baits but they all use click bait gotta get the views !!!!!!!

Just so you know, Randy has currently FFS and 3 transducers on his boat. It's all about clicks for Randy's businesses

@@joewinkler2168 You tell a lie every time you tell a truth? It’s absolutely for clicks. Hell Randy said it himself 5 times on this podcast. If I title videos truthfully yall don’t watch. WTF else would’ve convinced you? The Blaukat minions who comment are in a trance. They act like they would go full out Jim Johnson or Heavens Gate if Randy said it was time to leave earth and win a Darwin Award

@@davejolly582 I think he cares about his opinion on FFS, but he's also figured out that FFS videos are his most watched and commented videos. Whether he likes it or not, he knows that the money is in FFS videos (and Randy is self admitently on RU-vid to make money). I've been around his channel long enough to remember a video titled "my final epic rant on video game fishing with livescope/active target". that video was 2 years ago and easily 100+ livescope videos ago.

A LEGEND? Really. What are your guide lines for a legend?

@@TheFishdoctor1952wht are yours ?? Cuz if you say Ben is a legend then I want some of that shit you smoking lol

@@ElChema0719 Ben will likely never be a legend, but of course he is young. Randy did well. A couple of wins. But a legend? Not even close.

@@TheFishdoctor1952 The man has been in the game for a while he deserves to be in the legend league a least

He is like Eli manning of fishing lol

Boom!

Great example

Maybe he is tired of the bullshit

Hes been getting shit on for years...Professionals were bashing him for targeting giants with FfS before he started professionally fiahing...hes probably tired of it lol

He showed his true colors. He is not changing the sport it’s been on an incline since before dumpy diapers Ben. The truth is people like one rod and Mikey ballz and Jon b made it popular again with social media and RU-vid. Most everyone else are riding coat tails. Ben has always had a crap attitude and a bit immature. It’s the whole reason he gets crapped on. That’s life. You all must be 12 and spoiled brats too. Womp womp to yo mommy, not social media

Complete and total garbage comment based on your opinion. Doesn’t pass the smell test, the logic test, or the fisherman test.

Right. And?

Great point investigator needed your phd to figure that out.

To your point earlier, if a young guy is able to fish that often, then obviously they're going to have the best of the electronics. Fishing 340 days a year, even for 2 or 3 years, probably means they have more time on the water than 95% of anglers. Statistically speaking, they're going to be much more productive with their time on the water. Couple that with the fact that FFS lets you roll up to a point or lake structure, scan for fish, and decide if it's worth your time. FFS is clearly giving anglers an advantage. @@MillikenFishing

Really?? Not 340 but I fished 300+/- days from age 16 to about 21. Minimum wage jobs, borrowed boats, or from shore! The young man fishes 340 days a year because he is a hard worker, trying succeed at his career! Are we really going to hate on someone putting the work in?? Jealousy, looks bad man!

​@@lawhorndavid7687 ffs not an advantage at the top level when everyone has that technology. Ben has never said it doesn't aid a fisherman, but the unit doesn't present the lure to the fish. Often time knowing the fish are on a certain piece of structure is a hindrance because your ego tells you, you can make them bite. Wasted time on specific fish can be a big hamper in a tournament.

Unwatchable for sure.

I find FFS interesting to watch. I think it has more to do with the personality of the pro. The new guys don’t’ know how to engage an audience, this is why Ben is fun to watch (in my opinion). Ike put a video out last week catching fish on FFS - it was super entertaining.

Anglers were locked in their screen just the same before ffs. You only think this because Randy said it. And why does anyone care where an angler is looking. It makes absolutely no sense. Just an excuse.

@@muthafukajones1513 No, not cuz of Randy. He was not on the clip I saw this sit on, it was one of the 2023 BMC series from early year. I have LS so I know how crazy it gets piloting a boat, pole in and managing LS. Just saying but I invested in LS.

@@joeybagofdonuts7164 Point being that anglers have been doing the same thing for a long time. Now all of a sudden it’s huge problem and only one person talks about Steiner the backs of anglers. It’s not a coincidence

Randy won this debate

@@JMFishing It's just funny that ben had all that Stuff Researched and pretty much just jumped randy with it. And Randy answered all those questions with Fishing knowledge and Common sense

Milliken doesnt have an ego lmao

Its easy to debate when he never addresses the points being directed at him.

Would you actually debate with facts or just throw out random anecdotal stories like your god Randy?

@@zimks yea I'd debate him with facts I've got plenty here Is a fact I catch more fish with ffs than with out it

@@aarons6931 that’s still an anecdotal experience lol

@@zimks hows that anecdotal it's a fact Even ben said he can go get a limit of crappiest in 30 mins with ffs then next sentence sais ffs doesnt hurt lakes lol

Ben was showing tension- Randy was pretty calm in comparison. Seems like this is the first time Ben ever had an intellectual debate-he couldn't maintain a professional demeanor and let his emotions get the better of him. Randy is trained in martial arts and competed in the ring- he can maintain his emotions much better due to that training.

@@cuivre2004 You need to rewatch the video and attempt to not be biased

@@Davo2233 I watched it objectively. Ben was gesticulating and disrespecting people throughout the entire debate- even the other guys who tried to get a word in edgewise. They were even making fun of him for not letting them speak.

@@cuivre2004 talk about a Randy fanboy!! Wow, lol!

@@Benwtradarchery I actually have MegaLive- so I don't totally agree with Randy on this subject. I do look at how each of them tried to debate the issue. Regardless of the subject- Ben came across as douchey.

Sooooo should we look at how much money someone has in their bank account as a pre-requisite to enter a tournament? Or limit the amount of days someone can spend on the water? Also, I talked numbers, weights, number of quality fish etc.

I would love for a pro fisherman on either trail post the analytics or viewership numbers on each place they fish. If livescope plays show me the numbers after each tx

Thank you so much Ben! I have wanted to say what you said to Blaukat’s idiotic ass! You ripped him a new asshole! Your right as well about his minions. If you read his comments they sound like cult members!

So because a parent has sacrificed and worked to make a great life for their children that is some problem? As parent it’s one of my responsibilities to ensure my children are equipped for life in the best possible way. Daddy’s money doesn’t make a kid want to spend time on the water or work hard at becoming a great angler.

@@rustyscopano2667 You have parenting all wrong if you think it is your job to grease the skids for your children to skate through life. Hard times and needing to show some of their own grit makes the steel tempered. Otherwise kids will be soft as lead. Easy times make for soft men.

i think that youre thinking evolution as in their bodies are changing. The fact is that they are getting smarter which is a form of evolution. We could say that they are being conditioned but at the end of the day, the fish are learning what not to eat. They still have their core reaction though and that has not changed........or has it?

@@LeonStjames…… Randy absolutely thinks Bass are evolving to the point of physical change in mind and body. Animals that don’t rear their young evolve incredibly slow. Bass don’t raise their young, they eat them. Even if Bass are evolving, we would not see any changes, nor would our kids or grandkids, onward for hundreds of generations. Yes they get conditioned to lures, but every Spring they totally forget anything they may have learned and bite almost anything we throw at them. Their brains are simply not big enough or complex enough to learn a whole lot. They are instinct based animals. They have no generational learning so anything that they may learn is forgotten they second they die. The next generation is on their own. Bass are conditioned to some lures, but others they bit all the time. They are conditioned yes…..evolving…..no.

Thats what narcissists do when cornered.

I would think that to if I was a blauket fan boy. But Ben is well within his right to blast Randy. Randy has sat around blasting everyone for years. Ben said what the silent majority has been thinking and it’s long overdue.

​@@muthafukajones1513false.

Keep in mind your not a narcissist if you can back it up.

@@High-techRedneckFishing LOL! Who told you that? I think you are confusing "bragging" with "narcissism". They aren't one in the same.

Or no audience 😅

You mean the limited audience that has grown the last 4 years? Even with FFS being at its peak?

Yes indeed

Yah everyone would rather watch some guy bang the bank for 8 hrs and catch 13 pounds...instead of watching people with passion and personality catch 25 pounds

@@xmarkedx actually, yeah.

Indeed it was

Also saw the same thing. It’s a shame that respect is hard to come by, especially in a disagreement. Lame

Yes. Cringe.

He is an arrogant douche

Couldn't even say one word. Even if he had made a good point it would be negated by his snarky disrespect. His response to using those thumbnails was "I only used it twice" wtf. He tried to gaslight everybody that it never happened at first though. Not to mention the podcast trash.

A rig was brought to a vote by the elite level anglers at BASS and agreed to not use it at that level. Was never "banned" by the organization but anglers that compete at that level to agree not to use it in thar level of competition

Ben has a family

They have no skills

Why in hell do you Blaukat cult members just spew the same garbage he says on 14+ pitifully amateur videos weekly. You are probably the one that watches him play a shrink every Monday.

You can’t stand it that these guys can catch em better then you can you lol

@@zimks you figured me out.🤗

@@zimks clown

@@aarons6931 you got two different accounts spamming the comment section because ffs hurts your feelings = clown behavior

I went to my first BassMaster BP Top 100 weigh in the summer of 1994 and the local Ranger dealer had some boats displayed there, brand new 363 with a 150 Johnson fast strike on it and 2 lowrance graphs for $21,900

If they take away FFS Ben goes back to being a good, not great, angler.

Aaron Martens

They knew what this was going to turn into when they invited the two of them on a podcast together. I assume this is what they wanted.

Thats the point. Anglers had to target those untouched fish with livescope specifically because they'd fail to cash a cheque if they didnt. Half of the events now are "must livescope" to have a chance at a cheque. in 20 years, when those untouched fish are "fished out" just like the humps and community holes are at this point in those "must livescope" events, then what? Then you see catch rates go down. If you had specific data for 2021-2023 for shallow fish, offshore point and hump fish etc, in events that a livescoper won, the catch rate would show a decrease, because the winning anglers are catching solo fish swimming on random flats or structure. Ben should enter one of those events that are a must to have live scope, and then NOT use it, and see if he catches the same rate or fails to cash a cheque. Standardized country wide catch data will have not shown a difference because recreational dude who fishes 6 weekends a year (and makes up the majority of fisherman) still is running his 2d graph from 2005. in 20 years, when the barrier to entry is $350 to fish with live sonar off a lowrance hook unit, thats when you see the real damage to the fisheries