Should I have children? - CrowdScience, BBC World Service 

Many probably would (despite facing difficulties), and that certainly matters. Although, I would say that the concept of choice doesn't quite seem applicable in a situation where a person doesn't have interests. However, creating a bad life can be immoral, just as the creation of a good one would be ethical.

@@cosmiclifeist4875 Define a good life

@@tungtvann1 it's as hard to define as a "bad life". Some would say that a particular amount of material comforts make a life good, but I would not say that a person who is rich has no right to be depressed. Value is inherently subjective, so a "good" life can be found even in terrible conditions, something I've experienced a lot due to the fact that I come from a "third world" country. Simply engaging in one's day-to-day activities allows many people to sustain themselves, though that's obviously not the case for many people, who instead focus on other sources of joy, such as meaningful relationships, art, and the pursuit of knowledge.

How can an unborn child know that? Some people don't know the answer all their life, and even if they answer no, they survive until old age.

@@Gaze73 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-dGIhE7a1WGw.html

Adoption is not the same as having your own bio child though. It is not the same experience, no matter what fantasists claim.

Do not wait. This is nonsense. Jus because people FEEL like this does not make it justified scientifically or logically.

@@badgerjelly101 what doesn’t make sense to me is when people have a bunch of children that they cannot afford and spend most of their time at work anyways.

​@@quinncreel6091 There is no logic behind your statement. It obviously coming from emotional place.

@@faaaduma6876 No logic? That's rich! An adopted child wasn't birthed by the people who look after them; this means they have nothing in common with their so-called "parents", or if they do, it's purely coincidental. They are not their flesh and blood. Their relationship is based on a fantasy and most people eventually come to realise that. All of this is facts, so what's not logical about it? Your criticism though is driven by emotions, 100%. lol

Same here

My sentiments exactly.

Cost of living is shocking

!!!!!!!! Adaptation of children and renunciation of parental rights !!!!!!!!

I would not agree with the idea that it's only the parents' responsibility. Nobody can ask to have a valuable life either, and neither does anyone ask to not be born. If one creates a person with good intentions and in relatively stable socio-economic conditions (which is something many people unfortunately fail to do to a sufficient degree), I think that it can be justified to create a person. The goods/bads they would experience would also be caused by other factors, including other people and their own actions. Still, it's important that we recognise that mindlessly creating mini-mes isn't the best idea. I hope that ideas such as transhumanism, veganism, and the RTD will help reduce suffering significantly.

@@cosmiclifeist4875 It is wrong to create life.

@@sethmorgenroth6784 No, it isn't always. However, I don't believe that everyone needs to create beings. Hope you have a nice day!

​@@cosmiclifeist4875 bringing a child to a world where we know for a fact that anything bad could happen to them and that they could be hurt by anyone, that they could have a miserable life of suffering. gambling with someone's life by giving birth knowing all this is not justifiable and people with stable socio economic conditions can live a life of suffering too. I'm not saying that you can't have kids, but i don't think it's justifiable.

@@MarioLopez-hb6li I am not denying that such harms do exist, and this is also why I believe that we should stop creating mindlessly creating beings without taking one's social conditions into account. Nevertheless, one cannot ignore the fact that there are also deeply meaningful experiences such as love and beauty which one could experience. Many positives could happen to them, and they could also be helped (and help) by others. They could have an ineffably valuable life. I don't think this is exactly a "gamble", since one can still see that most people do seem to value their lives, which means that there is a reasonable probability that many others would too. However, if it's bad to partake in the "gamble" due the the risk of harm, it's also problematic to not do so due to the opportunity of great goods. Just as people who are rich can be sad, people who don't have a lot of material comforts can also be happy and content. I am also not saying that one should always procreate, but I don't think that universal antinatalism is justifiable. Still, I do appreciate your efforts to advocate for reducing suffering. I am optimistic that ideas such as a liberal RTD and transhumanism can help significantly reduce suffering. Hope you have a great day ahead!

How funny they have not mentioned any of that 😅. Well the girl lives in Switzerland, does she? 😅😅😅

my this, my that, my my my. You sum up the average human nicely...🤔

Happy to read happy comment in this list of obsessive neurotic people. Be happy ❤❤❤

For example?

You are just another bot on this world anyways, with no heritage and no plan, timewaster!

Okay.

Adoption is the most terrible path, I have been trying to adopt a kid since 3 years. There are many many obstacles costs, etc etc. And guess what I am still waiting

​@@felixpope6073fully agree, people have an outdated view that there are tons of children for adoption but nowadays its a lot easier to keep your child (which is a great thing). Its not easy to adopt, aside from the emotional burden there are many other considerations.

Agree with you

😂 Fostering is another option.

Overwhelmingly the third and fourth world, though.

Im literally the last laborer in my family. #wage slavery ends with me

@@hermanjones8001 I SALUTE you! You SHOULD force government to PAY you as much as CEOs make, to minimize YOUR suffering as long as YOU exist.

many people cry during funerals but many people still have the audacity to create more (eventual) funerals by procreating. there’s no guarantee your child won’t be born with any disease or disorder. bringing non-sentient beings into this f’d up world is nonsense. even if you’re rich and have a good life, you can’t guarantee your kid(s) will have a good life. if your child decides that they hate life then what? tough luck? gtfo. this is coming from someone who used to want their own biological kids one day.

Ditto

@@theultimatereductionist7592 Or they can force the CEOs not to have so much wealth accumulated so the inequality don’t increase 😊

What are you yourself stil doing around here?

​@@jeroendebruyne2165using water and air for nothing

the idea is thoughful. To make it even more thoughful, may consider to help in the pollution and reduce the time to use internet. Less electricity consumption, better for environment with actions.

YES! Same thing was mentioned in the 70's regarding food shortages ... and yet there was no mass famine. Now is THE most stable period for living a fulfilling life in all human history. The ATTITUDES people have towards humanity needs to change. We are nature as much as anything else BUT we have a greater consciousness (that appears little used by some).

Can you give me a time and place when you think it WAS a good idea to have kids?

@@jeroendebruyne2165 dat was het nooit, is het niet en zal het nooit zijn

!!!!!!!! Adaptation of children and renunciation of parental rights !!!!!!!!

Enjoy your cat

For the very same reason many would choose to have children. I am against guilt tripping people into not having children - that is 'unethical' right?

Why are you still alive then?

That is the point though, isn't it? Our children will be brought into a world filled with increasingly with selfish, unintelligent and mentally unstable people as unfortunately they tend to breed carelessly and excessively due to their careless and selfish mentalities. The question is, Is it right to inflict that on them when we know what awaits them, almost certainly. The world changed so much, and for the worse, in the last 20 years, what about the next 20?

​@@christinegangai1608the world has never been a better place to live. Life expectancy, personal freedoms, poverty and malnutrition rates, ... The past was the worse!

By nature, human babies can't survive without adults for many years, therefore, separation with parents is a huge unnatural thing - this is part of the nurture that they experienced - a trauma on mental and even physical level. Adopted kids have been severely traumatized, and help from a good psychologist or psychiatrist is often needed. Some events, teen pubertal behaviour can have unexpected reasons. For example, you are saying 'selfish like her birth mother' would be really painful to hear for your daughter (it is even a bit painful to read) and make you daughter not trust you. Some psychologists suggested never to blame birth parents. I think knowledge is a power anyway, just do some more research or consult with specialists. Good luck! I wish I had your courage)

@@olgabaruleva3228 Right, I've got all the knowledge I need. I AM the specialist. And that's how I know from all aspects. Why on earth would you think I TOLD one of my former foster daughters (thank heavens not my adoptive daughter), that she is selfish like her mother? I didn't. But I observed her on very many occasions. And I do know what I saw. She was and is like that from the age I know her (9). Of course we set a good example, we took her with us in helping others, we talked about the necessity of that, we corrected her when needed, spoke things through from all perspectives, etc. She could agree and even enjoy the activities. Yet, whenever it had to come out of her, she showed utter selfishness as a default. She's in her early twenties now. Never did I blame her birth mother. Merely, I explained what made life so difficult for her. We emphasized contact with her birth father, which was a nice, but weak man, as far as I can tell with undiagnosed FAS, and he got to enjoy developing real contact with his children, before he passed away, as a result of his own alcoholism. It's frustrating to see that also this apple didn't fall far from the tree. She took mostly after her mother. And how little I managed to achieve. Whenever I Really needed to get a thing through to her, the only thing that seemed to work a bit for the long term, was to take her viewpoint, to reason from utter selfish inklings. It's good, that my post makes people cringe a bit, for that's why I wrote it. People HAVE to be aware of the truth of things. Genes speak much louder than upbringing. It's hard work! She did relatively well. She has a good diploma and has a steady job. And she doesn't have children yet, by which we broke the cycle of getting pregnant too young. Overall, I did beyond expectation in raising her. Yet, there remain things to be desired, that go unfulfilled.

​@olgabaruleva3228 Thank you for your comment!

Most People try not to think about these topics and live as if they have purpose and achieve nothing eventually

@@Gingnose Life can certainly be valuable for many people, but I also think that ideas such as the RTD and transhumanism should be promoted so that suffering can be minimised.

Glad people have found value in their lives ;) I do think that creating people without due consideration, particularly in contemporary times, can be problematic, to say the least. However, I don't agree with universal AN. Essentially, I don't believe that the lack of harms can be said to be good without the absence of goods also being considered bad. Anyway, thanks for your contributions towards reducing suffering. Hopefully, we will live in a better world someday. Also, that moth isn't creepy!

What ethical reasons? Muh overpopulated world? 90% of the growth comes from Africa.

@@Gaze73 Not really. There are valuable experiences that matter. However, I do think that mindlessly creating beings is wrong. Edit: Oh, I am sorry. I think you were replying to moth.

And still you usually have big families there , unlike rich Europe, where people en masse choose life for themselves

I am, the Philippines has a very high birth rate, it's in the top half of countries with the highest in the world, higher than places like Pakistan and Haiti.

(Human) animals all throughout history have experienced this billions of times. Better it all stopped tomorrow, but the suffering will go on for a little bit longer 😵‍💫

Really 😊

The world is not dying though it is getting damaged.

Also, you can't simply say all under 60's have their future ruined as each individual will have different lives. And as much as things are bad, suicide is not the answer.

@ruairievans431 The only thing I gather from your response is you haven’t actually read the climate reports and don’t realize how bad it is. I live in Scandinavia, one of the regions in the world far better off to still be livable in a few decades. The thing is, when Scandinavia. Canada, Siberia and some other parts of Russia are basically the only livable places left in a few decades, and all of the world are competing for that space and whatever resources are left there, do you really think the nation states we have today will withstand that? We will start seeing society collapse in a couple of decades or so. And once that happens, I honestly don’t see what will be left to live for. Not for myself, others may feel differently. I don’t believe in survival at all cost for myself. Life needs to have quality to be worth living, and when hopes for the future and for building a better world disappears there is no quality left to be had, not for me anyway. So yes, my retirement plan is suicide. Yes, it will be the answer when it gets that bad. Read the latest climate report, then come back and tell me I’m wrong.

@@josephinenilsson1541 The future looks uncertain, do u still hold onto the belief of no hope. Then why are people breeding and starting families if there no future left. How long do you see yourself living for. sad times ahead, yet people are breeding its really unbelievable, how many are clueless on the coming years.

Yes, for their ego and because of money. In germany, if you born a child, you would have social pension as well and woman do not need to work fulltime. It is so ideal theory.

and?

Easy to say when you are a man, you can change your mind later, get a girl in her 20s or 30s and have a child. I’m a woman 😢I’m 27 years old what if I change my mind when I’m 35?

@@belle3055 a beautiful lady like you will have her options open till the age of 45. It is a different case that I won't change my mind

​@@ameygade1977it is fine, we have enough of you

@@riceball100 I ain't freezing my eggs

So you basically decided to die in loneliness, your choice what can I say

@@ediccartman7252 Yes, what you say is true, but in my opinion deciding to have kids just because you do not want "to die alone" as you say, may be seen as selfish. I didn't exactly say that, because life is complicated nowadays you had better not have kids, merely saying you can understand those who do not feel like having them. I have seen people "die alone" because their younger relatives or children didn't seem to care much about them or they have decided to go live thousands of miles away from them. Honestly this can't be a reasonable point you're making. Then everyone does as they see it is best for them!

@@semprefedeli6729 that's true - everyone does what's best for them. I personally don't see anything wrong with not wanting do die alone. It's nothing to do with selfishness, human being is a social animal in its nature, and you should have smb. who you can share your thoughts and troubles with ( even those you can't share with your friends). And I'm sorry for being rude, but saying life is complicated is position of a weak person. Nobody promised, life is gonna be easy. And saying life is complicated, is just an excuse for doing nothing and unwillingness to change smth in yourself .

Finally a fair and reasonable reaction. If you don't want kids, fine! I hope you go d meaning and joy in your life in another way 🤗

@@jeroendebruyne2165 thanks, I perfectly understand that the purpose of life is getting married and have kids. One thing is having this clear in your mind, quite another is doing things simply because "this is the right thing to do" when you don't feel like it 🙂👋

most of the people are way too egoistic to adopt which I find so weird.. when it comes to dogs or animals in generally... people are like " oh noo dont support breeders! so cruel! ADOPT AND SAVE A LIFE " then people doesnt have the same mindset when it comes to human kids......... " eww its not my lineage, I want mini me " then there are kids that end up being victims to human trafficking etc OR no one say oh you are so cruel when you marry cousins ( consequences of inbreeding...) or have biological kids when you know parents has serious deceases that is going to impact the kid.... lol

Excellent point.

Been waiting for this comment!!

What a load of crap, this is selfish and disgusting and self-scented you should be ashamed of yourself

Yes, very funny , 🤣 you and parents should decide whether the child should live.

What utter shit. I wonder what a person 50, 100, 300, years ago would say about that in the world they lived in.

based

Mmmm ... yet you are still breathing? Not to mention the pure contrary nature of the comment ... hoping it is sarcasm but there are so many nutters around hard to tell haha!!

Other cultures and religions are having children. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Personally, I chose to not have children. There are so many in the world already, that are suffering badly, also in richer countries. So, instead, I've been a foster parent. Over time I've shifted more and more to nature being more important than nurture, in raising children. We have tried to install many good traits in children, but we've seen over and over again, how they follow their original family's pathways. E.g. my last foster daughter didn't get pregnant as a teen. But she is utterly selfish, as is her birth mother. My last foster son is damaged by Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and we hope to have saved the world from a mass murderer, since he was one big ball of aggression. Yet, he's still indifferent to others, mainly. Sigh. So, if two kindhearted people want children, I'd say: go for it. Pass on the GOOD GENES too! The future needs smart, responsible and compassionate people too. Nurses, teachers, scientists, doctors. If that's your family legacy, PLEASE REPRODUCE and train them well! The others will reproduce REGARDLESS and they'll only outnumber the good ones otherwise. Just my stance on things.

Bots don't prefer kids, they prefer staying alone like a lost sheep

You have a lot of nothing except cope

A new dawn will come. Of course, it's not as if we live in utopia. Yet, there is still good in the world. I hope people can recognise it and fight for it. The majority of people do seem to prefer their lives despite the difficulties they face. I would say that it's definitely important to overcome problems such as climate change and excessive consumerism. Hope you have a wonderful day!

@@cosmiclifeist4875 Having a child only increases the Want, Consumption, and Grief in the world. There are no altruistic reasons to have a child.

@ It also increases happiness, love, and beauty. It helps form meaningful bonds and sustain civilisation. Unfortunately, many people do procreate simply because they want more working hands. But this doesn't mean one cannot give birth in order to give someone a life they would value. If that's still not altruistic, then neither is the decision to not procreate, since those who don't exist have no desire to avoid existence that would be satisfied by their prevention. I hope that we can address problems such as climate change and rising inequality before mindlessly procreating. Hope you have a wonderful day!

Why would anyone want to bring a child in to this mess Republicans are creating. If you are being forced to carry an unwanted child then you have lost your right to choose for yourself.

If you are not having fun in the 21st cehntury west then you have brought it on yourself.

That's very wrong 😕 poor kids

Its fine.. by the time your peers wake up Europe and Asia will be an older population.. so they can import you youth

@@hayleyfay4779 I don't think they'll be happy to import unqualified highschool drop outs without any qualifications and 4 children.. it sounds more like a possible extra load on the benefits system if they invite them to Europe. I'm convinced that sadly we are on our way to a future like the one portrait on the movie Idiocracy

If there is happiness in that, then that too is life. I think it's unnecessary help, but I'm praying that you can find happiness for you.

@@MarionPetterson europe has benefitted more than they could ever pay back from Africa . They should take the youth . I find it condensing that you assume they UNEDUCATED .

Because it is illogical and makes no sense when thought out rationally AND when the evidence is taken into consideration. It is worrying that so many are so easily convinced when it allows them to avoid responsibilities and burdens.

There will never be 12 billion people. Although I do agree some people probably never would have been born. Wink Wink.

Then, if you want people who do labor, you should pay better, there is a lot of corruption and inequality in this crisis

Yes and the highest form of satanism

we wqill burn in hell

Yea and it is so easy. Just get a pills and grind all over again. Then wonder they are lonely when they hit 40s 50s. Then they commit suicide, end of a good story of a feminist. 😅😂

@@codelessunlimited7701 Another delusional incel.

@@dot347 one does not have to be Christian to see that promotion of depopulation is evil. Especially when this is mainly targeted to ethnic European women. The only babies the evil elites want them to have are mulato babies. Just look at the advertising where in 99% of commercials White women are paired with blacks. How dumb do they think we are?

If you think there are too many people: you can reduce the number by one. Go for it

@@jeroendebruyne2165 Ok but to double the impact I'm taking you with me

I was living in the same situation for over 10 years, agreed to try for a baby because I love him and I convinced myself I want children. Found out I was pregnant 4 days ago and I feel like my life is over and I regret it so, so much. Trust your gut, I wish I had a time machine now. It is an irreversible challenge to your whole life and who you could be.

​@@ourwishonawing how are you now ? If you could turn time would you leave him and have a child with someone else?

​@ourwishonawing wait once the child is born. I am sure, you will love this baby

​@ourwishonawing wait once the child is born. I am sure, you will love this baby

exactly

Adoption is not the same as having your own bio child though. It is not the same experience, no matter what fantasists claim.

there not enough babies to adopt, 1 baby for 30 parents

@@how-to-live-right Yet there are still a lot of children in the orphanages. I think that it shouldn't be more difficult to be granted the right to adopt a child than to be granted the right to procreate. Adoption must become easier and you should at least fullfill some basic qualifications for procreation (like e. g. not being a drug addict) - but I am still against procreation in general.

@@quinncreel6091 Do you realize that it's very selfish to have a biological child for this reason?

A solution bigger than the problem, at least when applied universally. Still, it has value in bringing attention to the need to reduce harms.

@@cosmiclifeist4875 The problem is that all sentient life means suffering. The solution is that all sentient life goes extinct. Then all suffering ceases. It will never cease as long as there is one single sentient being left.

@@francisdec1615 It means much more than suffering, and the cessation of that other side of the coin is not something desirable. If anything, it would be the genesis of a problem much more potent than the solution (of course, the values under consideration are abstract) for the sentient beings in question. Additionally, ideas such as sentientism and transhumanism can help eradicate most forms of suffering.

How is that different from suicide booths or better yet nuclear war? If reproduction is pointless then so is living.

exactly

@lix5639 是的。我同意你的看法。在我看来，养孩子比读博士还难。😂

Gibberish. With no people there is no one to enjoy life. Scary how popular an illogical such as anti-natalism has taken such a grip.

That and eating plant based diet. Animal agriculture is responsible for mass extinction, ocean dead zones and acidification, soil degradation etc.