Should trans athletes compete in female categories? - BBC Newsnight 

Why do people think that testostorone is the only thing seperating a male and female? There things like bone density, lung capacity, heart capacity, body structure... Which all have a major impact on performance in Sport.

A girl on my track team has run the entire season undefeated in her events but ended up losing to only one person, and it was a trans woman

It is really embarrassing that we as a society are seriously considering biological males competing against biological women as fair and inclusive.

100% not! Get your own trans teams! What a sick joke 😡

While gender equality is a good thing, in sports however, a lot of things are subject to one's body structure. Biologically speaking, men's body is stronger than a woman so it would be really unfair for women. So 2 things can be done; divide sports according to their biological sex, or make new categories to cater them.

Reducing testosterone is like saying ‘Ive drunk 15 beers but I stopped half an hour ago so I’m all good to drive now’

I can't help but notice that its only the former males who wish to compete against women rather than the other way round.

Our ancestors would think we have lost our minds.

Short answer: No. Long answer: Hell no.

1:44 "but a woman is winning" OMG THE GASLIGHTNING

The fact that this is to be debated is insane

100% no, that is not fair or equal. They should be competing in trans categories.

How is it "blatant discrimination" when sports have always been based on biological gender? Doesn't that logically say that's sports have always discriminated?

Create a category of their own unless you want to destroy female athletics competitions

I can all give you something to think about, why allowing this is an utterly bad thing for biological women. Did you ever notice a case, where a female to male trans person made any noticeable impact in mens-sport? Why not, because they are genetically in a huge disadvantage, even with substituted testosterone. Born male will push born female athletes out of their sport and that will, in some cases, not be able to be reverted (missed scholarships, missed opportunities)

Women don't stand a chance against these cheaters. Why they allow it? If I were women, I would not take part in such organized sports competitions.

If you are going to let Trans Athletes compete, you will need to create a new category. The NCAA has destroyed the Women's Division by allowing the Trans swimmer Thomas to compete, it is a travesty to the actual women that have trained to compete. As a former athlete, feel terrible for those women that are cheated a place in the arena, in the final rounds and on the medal stand.

Why is this even a debate

No, they should have their own category

Why is it that the women who attempt to transform to men don’t ever try to compete in men’s sports?

There should be women's series for biological women and open series. Nothing else is fair, you can't rewind puberty.

A trans racing driver doesn't make the best argument for including trans women in women's sport when racing isn't gender segregated and the advantage that men have over women in that sport is much less than in other sports

Absolutely not. For the same reasons you can’t have a horse race against humans. Men are born physically stronger in most cases.

Absolutely NOT! Why is this a question? THEY ARE NOT WOMEN!

I feel like a third group where any gender can compete would be the best option.

Caitlin Jenner who used to compete in sports is the ideal role model for all transgender athletes. Caitlin competed as a male, and won Olympic gold as a male. So if you are a biological male, compete with the men's sports, and then if you want to dress and act like a female between races then feel free. Or dress like a woman while you do the mans sports. Nobody would mind that. If for example a trans woman wanted to wear a tennis skirt and make up to play against other male tennis players at Wimbledon then nobody has a problem with that. They can wear what they want, put ribbons in their hair and give themselves a girly name. That is all well and good so long as they play against other men. But for a biological male to compete against biological females is an absolute joke. It is sexist, it is insulting and demeaning to all women athletes and all the spectators.

This is a huge win for women and girls. We have got to reclaim dignity and fairness for women everywhere! I am so tired of women being eradicated and pushed out of their spaces where they can shine.

This is so wrong, I can't believe this is even a debate. This is so unfair on women.

as it should be. feelings can’t be more important than facts. and facts are clear to anyone who want to see them. trans athletes going from 163 place in male categories to breaking records in female categories and we are supposed to pretend that there is nothing wrong when WE ALL KNOW why they are “suddenly” winning!!

I support trans rights, but I don’t think it’s fair for trans women to compete against cis women in sports. I don’t understand why that’s such an unpopular opinion. When I tell people that I respect trans people but I don’t deny biology, they think I’m just sitting on the fence and that I’m scared to have an opinion, but that IS my opinion. Why does everyone think it has to be black and white? It’s like you have to choose between being seen as a biology denier or a transphobic ‘terf’.

it's common sense, they should not compete

The answer is simple: No. As a biologist I am appaled that it’s possible. Someone who was born as a male has approx 20 times higher level of testosterone than someone who was born as a female. It makes them 20 times faster, stronger, competitive, their red blood cells provide oxygen to organs much faster because there is more of them, their injuries potentially heal faster. No hormones or therapies after puberty can change that. Simple Biology. Sport’s institutions should not base their decisions on political correctness but on common sense. If they want to be inclusive, they should create an open cathegory where all athletes interested could participate, no divisions. That would be true equality.

Why don't they just maintain their testosterone level and compete vs men? Interesting side question, why don't female to male transgenders compete vs men? Maybe because they KNOW there is an advantage?

"Dou you understand that women have zero chance of winning"......"but a woman is winning"😂😂 the world is going crazy 🤣

If a motorbike identified as a push bike would it be allowed to compete in the Tour de France 🤷‍♂️. People are free to be who they want to be however it doesn’t seem fair in competitive sports, and perhaps there could be a separate category for trans people

Im sick of this whole trans topic

If they go through with this then men and women should just start competing against each other imo

ofcourse not, its a physical competition not mental

Imagine training your whole life for a sport as a woman, just to lose to some guy who thinks he is a woman... sad times

Why is the guy narrating saying 'Her' when talking about a 6'5 man stood next to a swimming pool?

Compete with the body you were born with. Men haven’t made themselves six inches shorter or made their shoulders more slender. Bigger hands, longer limbs, longer muscles, larger bones, heavier weight, stronger upper body. It’s completely unfair and appalling that anyone would feel good about winning by cheating.

If you changed, that was your decision. Nothing wrong with how you feel and what you want, but don't impose your life decision onto others and or groups. Play your birth sex. The fact that this is even a debate is insane. Like what you like and do activities you enjoy, but don't push to force a change on something that doesn't need it at all. There's no hard feelings. Life doesn't just bend to your desires, everyone should know that. If you can't accept the fact that life won't always go your way, then you have some personal mental health problems to think through regardless if you're straight or LGBT+. Politicians and committees need to understand how deliver the right stance, not just the public appeal stance. Those people should know how to poetically manipulate words where people understand the reasoning and don't feel offended. Why don't we just put nba players against handicap basketball players? Just because you want to be apart of something doesn't make it right.

Indonesia is unfair,they allowed transwoman in volleyball,but they did not allowed christianity in their country

They should have, and compete in, their own categories in sport.

The pro-trans side constantly obfuscates the fact that when the category of "women's sports" was created, the terms gender and sex were seen as synonymous, as in the category was obviously not created around people's "gender identity" but around the female biological sex. Nowadays when a forced separation of the two terms, sex and gender, has occurred, the pro-trans side tries to use it to their advantage, as in "what's the problem, the trans woman is a woman competing in a woman's competition" etc.. If you try to point out that transitioning gender doesn't change a person's sex, and transitioning sex is a physical impossibility, they will a) lie about the extent to which HRT affects a body (trying to brush away the fact that HRT does not affect skeletal structure/hip geometry/centre of gravity, lung capacity, heart size, reproductive/internal organs, differences in seeing motion, fast twitch muscles, tendon strength etc. etc. - in fact every cell in the body is sexed and there are 6500 genetic differences between males and females), and b) disregard their own mantra of "sex and gender are separate" and argue that female sports are somehow protected based on gender, even though even they will admit that gender is a social construct (i.e. not a physical reality and thus a completely arbitrary and pointless metric by which to categorise any sports divisions), and finally c) call every factual point you raise transphobic and claim that is reason enough to disregard your opinion... Because inevitably they will at some point try to fall back on saying trans people will kill themselves if they don't get what they want, ie emotional blackmailing. There is nothing wrong with saying biological males who make the personal choice to go on HRT/transition, are not then entitled to decide that they shouldn't have to lose against other males, and should thus be allowed to compete against females so it would be more fair to them - that is an absolutely absurd demand. A sex category is inclusive of everyone born as that sex, and exclusive of everyone who was not, there is no judgemental discrimination there. Trans identified individuals have severe mental health issues with accepting themselves or the reality they were born into, as the very notion of being "born in the wrong body" is entirely absurd, it is an absolute impossibility that "someone or something made a mistake" when a person was born - you are born as you are, and that IS the reality we must live with - in cases of extreme discomfort, it is the psychological side that must be worked on, as that is where the issue resides. It is beyond baffling seeing the rise of this attitude that delusions should be accepted, that we go along with people who think there is something wrong with their body because they feel uncomfortable with the sexist gender stereotypes of society, and encourage irreversibly damaging their bodies. The riling against "conversion therapy" is also unfounded, as identifying as trans, is in no shape or form a sexual orientation. Calling it conversion therapy is dishonest and an attempt to manipulate the discourse, there may however not be any truly appropriate therapy for this specific problem being utilised at the moment, something absolutely specific to the identity issues and self-acceptance problems with trans people, and that is something which needs delving into more, rather than being shunned as unethical - what is beyond unethical is the calls for allowing children to transition as early as possible (more scientific ignorance from trans activists as they disregard cognitive and emotional maturity among other things).

Should motorcyclists compete in the tour de France?

Why don't they just make an Olympic games for Transpeople

Honestly this is not a "difficult decision". Everyone with common sense knows the answer to this.

Absolutely not. Have a separate category for trans athletes if you must, but it's simply unfair to have people biologically born male to compete with biological women. There's only so much that hormonal inhibitors and similar tools can do.

"Inclusion" is a word that has lost all real meaning. Not everyone should be included in everything. To do so would be preposterous. For instance, I should never be included in anything involving swimming because I sink like a rock. If we are going to keep segregating male and female competitors, it needs to be based on chromosomes. Nothing else makes sense when you consider the purpose of the segregation.

A lived trans experience??? What has this to do with sport or fairness? Male and female categories were introduced for a reason. And we ALL know why.

Hormones are only important if you want to control their growth and development, but that matters before adolescence. On average, adult male has bigger lungs, more muscles, and a larger skeleton compared to an adult female. These advantages can't be reduced by hormone therapy. If you think iam wrong, put transfemale vs transmale in a competitive match, you will see. If involvement of LGBT community in sport is so important, please create a special category for them. By the way, i can't wait for the day when female transitioning to a male tries an allmen competitive sport.

Biological women should compete with other biological women. ❤

Have Trans as s separate category don't put into men's and women's sports. That's complete BS.

Put them in their own category. They should only be classed after they've gone through the entire transition with surgery.

Someone *saying* they identify as a different gender doesn’t mean anything, you still have a biological advantage

I fully support trans ppl - but as that one ep in southpark showed - it is kinda unfair sadly. You could make a new category for both trans man and woman however! After all its the sport that should mattar and not in who's team your playing.

Why are there no female to male trans athletes in the top echelons of male sports?

If it doesn't matter if transwomen compete against ciswomen then why don't we see more instances of transmen winning swimming championships against cismen? Why don't the transwomen compete cismen? If the differences don't matter? This just doesn't make sense. And like the last guest said above, the science isn't conclusive. Until then ciswomen sports should be left for ciswomen.

Im in my 50s and out of shape. I demand to compete in the Olympics at the same level against Phelps, Serena Williams or whomever. Anything else is unequal and unfair to my feelings. I demand inclusion and equity! And please stop calling us normal women “cis women”. We are women. They are men who think they are women or viceversa. They are individuals with a condition called gender dysphoria. People who aren’t disabled arent called “cisable”. Create sports for transgenders where they can compete against each other, and while at it build the Bathrooms for them too, but leave the rest of us 99%ers alone. Stop it with this trans stupidity. It’s getting tiresome.

NO,NO,NO, Why do women never transform into mens sports,that is very obvious isn't it. ??

You can be a boy, a girl or whatever you want! But no matter what one soughts out to be, you have to compete against the same gender that you were at birth.

They should complete in transformers league

If 'trans' woman really were the same as just any woman nobody would feel the need to add 'trans' in front of the word woman.

The insanity is, that we're even having this conversation

I will identify as someone with special needs and then compete in the special Olympics.

To put an end to this nonsense, the real women in sports should just stop competing in events where trans athletes compete, fortunately there aren't enough trans athletes who compete in a variety of sports, so the negative effect of real women missing out on a few events a year should have less of an negative impact than actually competing against trans athletes, this should put pressure on organizers and sponsors to come to the table and find a solution.

Nope they shouldn’t. Look I know we gotta be understanding about the other side but they also have to be understanding of the biological advantages they have over women If they transitioned before puberty then sure I can see that as an exception (given documentation/proof of transition before) but after they should have their own category. Let’s face it…. We see a bunch of males transitioned to become women to compete. We hardly ever see a female transition into a man and compete at any high level sport. Why? Because they are at a severe disadvantage when playing against men. So men that transitions are already at an advantage. Sorry not sorry but there’s gotta a be some middle ground here.

Sometimes comedy writes it's itself. This is like an uno reverse from men for all the things women fought so hard for. They can't let women have all the fun.

Very simply - NO

Just image you have the worlds fastest male on some distance turning female. That would be quite unfair for the other females wouldn’t it?

Be whoever you wanna be but play it fair If ya born a male but don't identify so And wanna still compete in the sport you love, live your life as a woman but still compete at the male team which you still biologically belongs to

When can we expect NORMALITY to return to this country ?

What I find so interesting about this issue is that participation in sports has never been about inclusion and fairness to anyone wanting to join in. Maybe only TBall for little kids, but once you start keeping score, you will have a chance to participate only if you are athletic and able to be competitive. If you go to a large High School here in the US and are short and not very athletic good luck trying to make the Varsity Football team. If you are not tall and fast you’re not going to be able to make the basketball team. I can come up with many examples here, but the point is that participating in organized, competitive sports is usually reserved for those that are athletic enough to be selected for the teams or be able to qualify for events. If you decide to transition and that renders you ineligible to participate in sports, then join all the kids that had no choice but joining the chess club because they were not athletic enough to make their school teams even if they grew up loving the particular sport they will not be able to enjoy playing.

The answer is No. Simple.

A ridiculous question that's unfortunately relevant today.

coming from a previous MLR rugby player myself. You absolutely can not only use sports that require very little to no contact. They are mainly only competing in sports that are individual races, weight lifting, hand eye coordination. If you really want to see the truest overall difference, just let transgender athletes compete in full contact sports. I.e American football, rugby, wrestling, kick boxing, MMA etc. the physical ability when it’s straight brute force down to a biological advantage you might re think if it’s fair or unfair for transgender athletes to compete with sis gender athletes

NO!! WOMEN fought for the right to vote, work, and have sports teams. Transgender individuals can stary their OWN sports!

The answer is a plain no.

What about creating a new sports category?

Trans-women are not women, they are trans-women. Women are women. Therefore trans-women should not participate in women’s sport, they should participate in trans-women’s sport. It’s insane that we even have to have this debate.

NO❗❗❗ Does not the Evidence/Science show there is an advantage.

They need to compete in their own transgender category period

The IOC really let everyone down when they said it was up to each individual country to decide if they should allow Trans Athletes to compete. The IOC (god help us) are in charge of most Sports so a definitive NO to trans athletes competing in female categories or setting up separate Trans events could have occurred.

They are simply not women, the category is called "women's sport". Even if they don't win, they benefit from their male influence. Don't oppress women to let some weirdos feel nice. Being "offended", and feeling "discriminate" does not mean you are right.

Transgenders should be its own group in the competition. There's an unfair advantage that female transgenders have being born a male prior to switching, especially if they have already hit puberty prior to switching. Males comparing to females have higher levels of testosterone level that aid in body structure development and allow males to have more muscle mass, stamina, and higher bone density and growth spur. Look at Lia Thomas who competed in the female swimming competition and compare Lia body statue to the rest of the other female swimmers in the competition, you can tell Lia already had an unfair advantage.

Hot take: You should stay away from hormones and any other form and degree of medical transition until you're ready to permanently exit sports in any professional capacity.

huh why not just make one for them.

I fully plan to identify as a woman and get my female athletic scholarship

Women sports needs to be protected and the people to do it are women, who need to speak the truth now and not be afraid.

Funny how there is NEVER a conversation about trans men in men's sports, almost as if, gasp, there are inherent biological differences between men and women!

No. While I think they deserve the chance to compete, I think it is difficult to deny that unless they have undergone radical transformations that took away the physical advantages they had as males, those advantages are still there, essentially putting them in a different category altogether from typical women athletes. Creating a new category based on their physical condition would be the wisest and fairest option in my opinion.

I don’t think it’s being said that the testosterone receptors in males are more sensitive than those in females (yes, they both have it) meaning no matter how low the testosterone levels are, biological males are going to have the testosterone advantage just because their body is programmed to do so. Their muscles just pick up the testosterone easier even at low levels.

There are some sports like shooting, archery, bowling, etc where physical prowess takes a backseat to skill. Those sports shouldn’t have male or female categories

When you look at the timing of these “transitions” with the timing of the associated competitions, it becomes very obvious that these people just want to win at any cost. It is extremely pathetic.

They should have their own tournaments. Its not fair for us, real women, genuine women

I know it sucks, but you can't always get what you want. The way things are now, I don't think we have the capacity to fully integrate trans people into competitive sports at this moment. Maybe in 20 years. It's gonna require more studies, more science, more data, potentially separate categories for trans people to compete in....More infrastructure. It can be done, I just feel like we have to be more realistic about this situation. I feel bad for the trans people who are athletes who want to continue to compete after transitioning. What can you say? Sacrifice is part of life. You have to make choices, and sometimes that means giving up certain things that you want or need for other things that you want or need more. That's part of being an adult and living in this imperfect world. If you transition, you are making a choice, and that choice necessarily has consequences, because all choices do. The consequences that come out of choosing to transition may be ones that are hard to deal with, and that sucks. But that fact is as much a part of the human experience as is gender, if not more so. Ultimately, your choices define you. And I also know that the LGBTQ+ population has a higher proportion of people diagnosed with mental health issues than does the regular population. I bring that up because I recognize the emotional impact of having to give up or fight for or change the way in which you compete in sports would probably be heavy for a lot of people. Add that to the tumult of transitioning, as well as the difficulties inherent in living as a trans person, and I can imagine some heavy depression (and all of the possibilities that it might bring up) resulting from being barred from competing as a trans athlete. And that really sucks. But again, ultimately, we are all humans and we are subject to the limitations imposed by the realities of the world and our own choices. If you want everyone to be treated equally, you have to start there

That's how far gender equality craziness can go, yet it's not the end

Biological Men are just stronger than biological women - short, tall or skinny.

There's a logical way to solve this. If you have XX chromosomes, you can compete in women's sports. If you have anything else, you can compete in men's sports.