The fizik Arione is the worst saddle for me, I rode it for a year on my commuter and after only 5 minutes I had pain in the perineum area. Thank you James Thomas for the great BikeFitTuesdays.
this guy james is the real deal. there are lots of content on RU-vid and they either are not clear or get too technical. this is the simplest and clearest explanation on saddle tilt. thank you so much. cheers 🍻 from NJ/NYC
I love these types of videos and as someone who had a professional fit I still find myself constantly tinkering with my geometry. To add some food for thought on saddle tilt, I have found that (for me personally) for long hard seated climbs (8-20% gradient) that I am noticeably less fatigued with the nose of the saddle facing slightly downwards. If I run a neutral saddle on 10+% gradients I need to work additionally hard to stop my ass disappearing backwards on my saddle. This tires my hamstrings, lower back and arms excessively. Running the saddle nose down reduces this additional stress. The downside of this, pardon the pun, is that on the flats and downhill you feel a slight push towards handlebars. But for the mountain routes it is a definite advantage in my experience. Horses for courses. Cheers
Oddly….I never have neck, back, wrist pain regardless of saddle position and/or tilt. If I tilt it forward I my sit bones hurt…if I tilt is backward I get perineum pressure. Still trying to find the “just right” angle
I’ve just swapped my 155 specialized romin evo gel for a 155 fabric line-s flat and made it 100% level to the ground. Sooo comfy and just feels completely neutral.
SMP dynamic is a great saddle, I've tried so many already and I always get back to the dynamic, but yes, tinkering with the optimal tilt can be time consuming because mm's can make the difference. I actually ride with the saddle a little loose so that if apply some pressure I can find the right seating position, after I hit the sweetspot, I stop and fasten the bolt and setting up ye old smp is done. The saddle is also slammed all the way forward as James mentions.
Francis a video on leg length difference what it effects in a cyclist how to tell if you may have one and what is done to fix this , through spacers under the cleats arch support etc.
In the final stage of the Giro I noticed that some of them (including Alex Dowset) seem to be slowly sliding down to the front of the saddle for a few pedal strokes and then move back up again. It looked like Alex also used some gripper tape against sliding. I thought only I do that because I am a bit rubbish at cycling. It must lead to a loss of speed, because you use your muscles to sit down properly again every now and again. Or I might be completely wrong.
Thank god for Bike Fit Tuesday, I had this horrible dream about living through Tuesday and I woke up this morning thinking it was Wednesday. Francis once again resetting the world back to right.
Great video, and after watching loads of BFTuesdays - I’m getting two bike fits this week! First bike went lower and longer, which was surprising, but made sense. Second bike on Friday...
Did not know that I was about to adjust my saddle even worse than it was. Got spirit level, and bam, I think I understand why my ride was uncomfortable. The saddle had quite a lot of nose tilt down, but when looking at the bike, you wouldn't notice, so now everything is level. Gonna check it this weekend.
Thank you for the explanation. As a relatively new cyclist, I didn't initially notice some issues with my new bike during a short trial ride, nor did the bike shop employee mention that my reach was too long. I began to realize this problem when I found myself shifting forward on the saddle during rides, which became quite uncomfortable. I attempted to adjust the saddle by moving it slightly forward, but I believe that reducing the stem length from 9cm to approximately 3cm will greatly improve the reach without causing me to kick my handlebards and moving the saddle forward that much. I guess one never stops to learn.
I hope that you've seen the other videos in this series by the ti me I am replying to your comment, but a stem that short is going to destroy your handling on the bike. A short stem makes the steering really twitchy. You might want to consider lowering the saddle a smidge as the saddle is almost always too high (and a saddle thats too high increases reach). After riding my current bike for two years, we realized that what seemed like the right height was really 2 cm more than it should have been. I was lowered down and all my issues went away. I recommend watching through most of the bike fit tuesday videos.
@@deemey95 Hello, I have not seen the other videos from this channel series but I searched for this topic over various forums, and watched many many videos from different channels. the saddle height was okey as that was the first thing I really tried to nail as it is the easiest change possible so I used several methods to find the sweet spot. In the end I did not go with such a short stem but only for 3cm shorter which means for 6cm instead of 9mm. It helped with the reach problem drasticaly. When I swichted the stems, the change did not seem to be that big as visualy having the former longer stem next to the installed new shorter stem with handlebars the difference looked even smaller than 3 cm but after first ride I was amazed how big change it made. Indeed, the handling feels more responsive but I would say not twitchy but yeah, I would not go for a shorter stem than that.
I have a Specialized saddle similar to what you showed early in the vid and a slight upward tilt has improved the ride immensely. Lots of saddles have a geometry that make determining "level" an issue so any tilt is kind of a relative thing. For example, I have a Selle SMP Dynamic on my gravel bike and when measuring between front and back high points, the nose has to be down for this saddle to work for me. For what it is worth, a bike fitter on RU-vid has a different take on the Selle SMP tilt than you and all advise on such things has to be taken with an mind open to the notion that what works for some might not work for you and opinions vary. The slight shift of the contact points with small changes in tilt can be impressive. Other than trial and error, not certain how any individual will find what works for them. Of course saddle height and bike fit are issues you can't neglect.
I had trouble figuring out how to get my Specialized Evo Romin functionally flat. That trick with the clipboard is awesome, it would have helped me get the tilt right.
Didn't know bike fitting was sooooooo easy? Watched gcn idmatch vid!!!! Couple of buttons to press, hey presto, job done, not a fitter in sight😂😂😂😂😂🚴♀️🏴 Enjoy bike fit Tuesday, keep em coming 👍
Pressure relief saddle help but for me it's still a great improvement with the nose every so slightly pointing down. Doesn't feel like a slope, I only have about -3 degrees.
@@bradley5431 I used a angle meter app. Accuracy is dependend on your phone. For me the Accuracy was enough and consistent to find the prefect angle and duplicate the setup on my other bike with the same model saddle.
I have a Brooks B 17 special on my touring bike nose is slightly up as you sit in a brooks and not on .but other saddles like you say flat .Like the clip board and phone tip going to use that one thanks.
To me 3 degrees down were magic, better hip rotation, less hand pressure on the bars just cause I have more stability, yeah, saddle tilt front relieved hand pressure, it's counterintuitive but, one you count the stability added to your hip, and hence it's ability to bear more weight, it's logical.
I find your videos informative and remarkably free of BS**t, I have a suggestion about saddles though:- I know you are relatively young forward thinking people (says the 69yr old) but there are very many people out there with a Brooks B17. It may be outside of your expertise/experience for valid reasons or you may hate them, but some comments about it's use and characteristics might go down well. No hard feelings if you do hate them!
The problem with the brooks in my experience (having owned a few and fitted.......ahem.......removed many) is that they lack any support - the entire role of the saddle. Usually transferring weight elsewhere, more often than not brooks users suffer from hand, neck and shoulder issues unless the position completely offloads that region i.e it is bolt upright like that of a touring bike but even still I quite often struggle to get them to work. Never say never though
Hey Guys. Very nice video. One of the big questions I had, how to measure the saddle tilt, what does it mean to have the saddle leveled since saddle shapes are different. Simple but hard to find a response. Thank you very much for that. James you are the best
Can you do a bft on reach and how to know its correct.. The traditional method doesn't take into account short reach handlebars. Also when i ride (very new to it) the outside of by foot aches, is this my feet just getting use to cycling or so i need some sort of support in my shoes?
Well explained topic, love these videos. However, going by experience, if you’re still uncomfortable after experimenting with your saddle tilt, you could have the wrong saddle width!
I have 3 bikes that I use regularly and tried my best to have the setup the same across all 3. All the bikes have different head tube lengths, reach, stack, etc., which complicates things a bit. Would love to hear how James would go about addressing this fit scenario where multiple bikes need to be considered. Thanks!
i switch between 2 saddles that i like. Fabric flat and SMP comfort which is the cheapest. both different but mu butt appreciates them. both go with 1° nose up. that helps me to stabilize the pelvis as i have a lumbar fusion. i have tight thighs and hip flexors too so my pelvis tend to naturally roll forward which is not good for my lumbars. pedalling out of the saddle and stretching is an obligation for me. every few miles i get up and push my pelvis against the handlebar.
That why my hamstrings are killing me I got a new saddle, from a bike shop and the nose was set up and it felt strange at first and my hamstrings and wrist was hurting a lot but I raised the set post and that helped a bit but my wrist still hurts quiet a bit
In my experience saddle back-tilt lets you sit on the rear of the saddle if a wavy one is too narrow otherwise. This causes problems with the nose jabbing at the bits since the pelvis does not rotate. Solution: Wider saddle.
Would love to hear James’ opinion on the Selle Italia idMatch system that GCN have just made a video about. How different is it to the setup he currently has and how does an algorithm compare to experience of a bike fitter?
I always end up tilting my saddle just sliiiightly upward to relieve pressure on my sit bones. I don’t usually have a problem with a little bit of pressure on my gooch lol
I used to be able to have a dead flat saddle on my 29er mtb. Then i converted it into a Franken-hybrid-gravel-trekking bike by converting the front end to rigid forks, which dropped the front end 45mm, and weirdo big back sweep bars with inner 42cm wide bullhorns. Now with the serrations on the seat post, i am unable to get the seat flat. I can run it 3 degrees nose down or 1 degree nose up. Neither bothers me comfort wise on a 50 kms ride, but which should be better in your opinion? TIA.
Hey next time am in the U.K. to get James a bottle of Johnny Walker, But he is right about this up down back and forth a good bike shop can help you once again a great Video.😎🚴
Lots of (if not all) cycling channels or bike fitters recommend a relatively flat saddle, or a slightly tilted down, and obviously not a single one recommended a tilted upward saddle. Now the important question is, why do every seat post has very wide saddle tilt adjustment to the extreme tilt positions, both upward and downward?
Presuming your saddle height is correct and you then change your crank length from 175 to 172.5 cranks, would you change saddle height in any way with the new crank length? Big fan of bike fit Tuesdays. Be well and Thank you !
I have always ridden my saddles nose up, sometimes fairly extreme, but after watching this I put my saddle level. Right away, I got sore shoulders and numb hands. If my saddle is not nose up, I feel like I’m rolling of the front, having to support my upper body weight with my hands and arms. I can’t explain it, maybe I am just the one exception to the rule ...
Hi Francis/James, now that I have measurement to my "bikefit" can you do a video how do I choose a size or frame manufacturer that better suits to my fit? Thanks ST
I‘ve had the front of my saddle tilted slightly upwards for years. I originally did it to reduce the weight on my hands and kept it as everything was more comfortable for me.
Agree. Shimano Pro Stealth saddle tilted 1 degree up, and buy an incline ohmmeter more accurate than a clip board and a spirit level and not expensive.
I have a better way than using a level.. place bike next to a wall or something that is level.. eye up saddle next to level line of bricks in wall or whatever it is. This works great as you can really see if the flat part of the saddle is indeed level
Helo. Need info on saddle tilt. How to level specialized toupe saddle?? 0 degree from highest point to highest point or 1degree down from highest point to highest point?? Ty for info
Personally I have to have my saddle tilted a little bit forward. Not a lot but a little. Looking to try a relief channel, should I start off with it level or how my current position is?
Question, if you have a 2016 Roubaix with an S-Works seat post, the one with the layback and vibration dampener how would you set the Angle, nose down so when you sit the saddle is then level? Thanks for the fit info changed my riding.
@@nickmannerings3574 I’m sure that will be in the mix. I’ve also heard (loose) clothing can even contribute. Well aware it’s “how you interact with the saddle” but yeah - fore/aft, etc. This is kind of why I’d like to hear what all James has to say as well.
@@standardh_ My personal theory is that it's friction. You want more friction between your skin and your pants than between your pants and your saddle. If the clothes cling to you, they don't rub on you and cause abrasions. If the clothes cling to the seat, you're scrubbing yourself against your fabric. Hard saddles, leather, and ones with a smooth vinyl top all seem to work for me with regular athletic clothing - YMMV.
Hey Francis, James, I was told the saddle rails should be horizontal as this is the "level" saddle position and that is how it was designed to be ridden, is this true? Would you agree that's a good starting point for a saddle tilt and then go from there?
Changed saddles for one with a pressure release channel, but don't feel stable sitting on it. Is it most likely the tilt, height or the fore/aft positioning?
It seems that you cater mostly to roadies, but is there any change in philosophy with setups for triathletes? Especially since much of their weight is pitched forward?
I’ve noticed that you guys mention the Pro Griffon saddle several times. For being a great saddle. Do you have experienced the latest 2021 model? (This one seems to differ quite a lot from the previous one....) I’m now riding with an Arione Open. Almost the perfect one for me, but can’t get used to being it so small at the front. Could the Griffon be a better saddle for me? (My sitbones width; 10,5 cm).
Interesting, I've always run a bit of nose down, made me go out and check it. and tweak it. Would it be different for mountain bikes or does same rules apply?
Never had knee pain/discomfort from riding outdoors, done a few indoor rides on the turbo and noticed discomfort just above the left knee cap after about 45 mins of riding. Is this due to the bike being in a fixed position?
After an hour, I get a sharp nerve pain on my left sit bone, impossible to sit down. Tried loads of different saddles. Any idea what causes it or what's going on?
Love these recent videos explaining each area of bike fit, I did wonder if I was correct measuring the whole saddle or just the nose I’m glad that’s cleared up Edit: I’m almost struggling to think of any area you guys haven’t explained yet, maybe handlebar to seat drop and it’s effects too high or too low? Keep up the great work
