Should You Buy A "Homage" Watch? 

bitly link is 404 for me currently

can you update your favorite affordable watches...

Hey Ben, do you know of an affordable watch that looks similar to the Cartier Santos?

+1 for broken link. Looks interesting and will have a look but wanted to follow your link. I'll just have to watch another bwc video and try there

@@neikimtv coming soon 👍

I mean the video is about more 'questionable' homages also wasn't the speedy itself a rodania homage

🟥🟥🟥Indeed, Rolex registered the models of its brand, but the existing designs from other brands such as Blackpain, Omega, Tavannes among other brands. This video is the best example that a RU-vidr does not know about watches, which is why he asks about demands from big brands, the reality is different. Greetings.🟥🟥🟥

The Nautilus is an Homage of the Piaget Polo

lmao the sub was the first dive watch blancplain’s marketing bs has everyone convinced otherwise apparently

@@fezzes428 The Rolex Submariner is from 1953 and other brands already had submariner watches before, such as Tudor, Seiko and the Omega Marine from 1932. Go study.

this is my feeling, personally i like homage watches usually on their own merit I like the thing they're homaging but it is literally impossible for me to ever get them when I have significant financial obligations and barely make more than 20k a year I personally feel some of the hate against homages is gatekeeping, why shouldn't I be allowed to enjoy things because some rich people want that design to be exclusively theirs (often lost on them that the luxury brand producing it, was not the progenitor of that design) I do personally think it's a drop of western chauvinism/a sort of racism that has made us accept Swiss watches as the real deal Japanese watches as technically 'authentic' and Chinese as always fake

true

Whatever you want to tell yourself justifying wearing a fake

Design patents exist.

@@mstcrow5429 Yes, but breaches of patent are quite easily avoided by making a few subtle changes. No breach of patent, no law broken. It doesn't matter what you or I think of this; the fact is the "homage" companies have good lawyers who know just how far they can go.

@@rangersmith4652 Wasn't trying to make a legal determination. Just OP seemed to be unaware of them.

@@williamwallace9427 If a watch clearly and boldly wears the brand name "Pagani Design" or "San Martin" and varies just a bit from some other watch's design, it's legally not a fake. Your opinion on this is irrelevant; what matters is the law. Morality being subjective, legality is the only criterion by which this can be objectively judged. A year ago I was gifted a fake Rolex Daytona, and not a very good one. It bears the Rolex logo, etc. but is clearly not a Rolex. I keep it around as a curiosity, but I never wear it because I know it is an illegal fake.

I as well own a couple of Pagani watches. I also have Rolex, Tudor, longlines, Omega. The Pagani has been as good a daily wear as any other. Any watch has its propose. I love em all. And have even turned fakes into decent daily wear watches and removed fake markers.

You'd feel even worse if that $10K watch was stolen off you in the street.

I most likely tells the time more dependable. I kept one of the "real " ones to remind me never to spend more than 1k on a watch.

Same I own homage watches because I can invest my money in better ways and also I don't mind getting the look without having to worry when i bang it all over the place.

Those cheap Chinese GMT movements are notorious for breaking, I’d steer clear of them.

I think they would utterly destroy them if they could, as they try it with fakes. The problem here is the Design Protection, by which the Design of a watch is obviously protected, if registered, only lasts up to max 25 years. The often copied watches are much longer on the market so they are no longer protected by design law. And everyone can use that design, as long as they don't violate trademark laws, as fakes do. Second reason could be that it is damn hard to prosecute some chinese backyard producers, that just pack their suitcases and off they go, protected by chinese non cooperation regarding an immaterial law violation.

@@poGaymerdisagree. Here in the US, billion dollar Rolex going after Pagani would be made to look like pompous, greedy fools. Their business model of selling direct to grey market flippers would get exposed. No way they’d get a conviction. In SUI they’d win - but that would just mean SUI people couldn’t buy them.

Only watch nerds know about Pagani and other homage brands

Scratches on a vintage styled watch like that just make it look even more vintage.

Exactly! Own a genuine Rolex and it has to stay in the box most of the time or risk getting mugged.

@@Zerpentsa6598 That too! lol.

Well said!

fr watch geeks sometimes take things way too serious, at the end of the day its someone else's watch and theyre enjoying their purchase no need to shame them

True, I've got a pagani design (PD-1731) that was apparently a Grand Seiko homage or something. I had no idea at all, I just liked the smaller size and design and the price seemed good for the movement and materials involved. I did not want to flash I just liked it that's all. Do not overthink this too much...

These are people who primarily attach or base their personality on their material possession/s. It's kind of sad.

I agree. But my question is why buy an homage if you aren't looking for validation? There are an almost infinite number of affordable options that offer similar design elements, but are still original in their own right. Citizen, Seiko, Orient, Casio, Tissot, all have huge catalogs, and not one of their watches are a dimension by dimension copy of another more "famous" watch. For the money I spend on a Pagani, I got a Seagull 1963 with a real life column wheel chronograph movement that is mesmerizing to watch. It's not trying to be a Speedy, or a Royal Oak. And no one will mistake it for one. But seeing a column wheel chrono in action without spending $5,000 is a treat. No one will mistake my 1963 with anything else, but I will tell you one thing. It has more in common with the actual Speedmaster that made it to the moon than a Pagani Design Fake Speedy does. Heck, it's closer to what went on the moon than my Bulova Lunar Pilot.

Those are shitters bro. Save your money and buy a speedmaster.

@@suckgames no

Well said. Huge respect. After all our own experience & satisfaction is what matter mosts in collecting.

@@suckgames why should they do that?

@@suckgames Speedmaster is a fantastic watch, but also above my range I'm afraid. I won't take a loan to get it; after all, it's just a watch and I have another spendings. Sure, it would be nice to own one, but there are more important things in life 🙂

And the excuse of "The real one is too expensive".... Yes, it is if you want one tomorrow. But I just save up for my grailwatch. Knowing very well that it will take me years. But in the end, I got the watch I really want. Instead of wearing a clone that reminds me all the time of that watch I would rather be wearing.

@@MrPleers Couldn't agree more. It's also beter for your money.. It is better to invest in stuff that holds it's value than buying a bunch of ripoff-watches that are just wasted money because nobody will ever give you a dollar for it. So the "The real one is too expensive" is actually not just an excuse for poor buying-habits it's also a real waste of money. I stopped buying garbage a few years ago. Clothing, Accessory... (hell i even buy books in their hardcover-format or limited editions) because when i spend my money i want some worth in exchange. Now when i'm getting rid of something i sell it ob eBay and i usually get more money back than i invested for the product i enjoyed for long enough. (Except Clothing but it's better to get a few dollars back from a quality product than throwing away your stuff for nothing)

No. They absolutely are trying to fool people. Unless you are less than 12 inches away you aren’t going to see the different logo

@@williamwallace9427 they arent fooling anyone that can read. If someone is honestly stupid enough to think that they are getting the genuine article for what Pagani gets for a watch than that is on them!

Honest ? They call themselves Pagani Design. But don't design anything themselves. Just stealing design's from other more famous brands.

@@MrPleers 100% true

@@williamwallace9427 He meant Pagani isn't trying to fool the buyer. But honestly, do you really care if strangers will recognize that you have a Rolex (or a fake one) from a distance? Many people can't even read an analog watch or list more than 3 watch brands, let alone recognize a submariner.

Tisell Explorer 36 here, same answer. It's not our fault that some of the coolest designs are with brands only the rich and/or fanatics can afford...

Loving my Pagani Oyster, can't really say the same if its 100x more, yes its sharp on the edges but it comes with solid links, sapphire crystal, and run -6 sec a day! But at 1/100 the price of the "real" thing I'll gladly get the PD.

I have the same problem! I have San martins version of a grand Seiko diver. For the price the quality is insane, I can't imagine the finishing on the GS to be that much better? Spring drive would be nice but other than that is the GS really that much better...?

@@flyguy1359 how else would you feel your superiority if the “lesser” people can enjoy the same thing the same way they do ?

@@flyguy1359 The GS would be that much better. Grand Seiko has some of the best finishing in the business.

I think your last line nails it.

Excellent summary

Stunt double, love that. I'm stealing that term for all my homages/clones from now on.

Very true. Of all the RU-vid watch videos no one brings that up. Also smart when on vacation - lost stolen damaged - no big deal.

Not just afford one, but actually wear it most of the time. You don't wear a £15k watch outdoors in London or Birmingham or in any western city. You risk getting your hard ripped off.

One issue you haven't addressed here with regard to homage watches is instant gratification. I've seen plenty of watch collectors on forums & watch crunch etc who have a couple of watchboxes full of homages yet claim they can't afford the original version. I think some of these people are not being honest with themselves & lack willpower. I saved up for over 2 years to get my Tudor BB58, should I instead have bought 30 Pagani Designs, nope not in my opinion.....

@@Andrew.W75 That is true to some extent. But I know that for myself at least, I couldn't just have one or two high end watches as my whole collection. I like to have many different options and styles depending on what I'm doing/wearing/mood etc. But each to their own.

@@HonestWatchReviewsHWR Your comments here echo my mentality exactly. I've owned approxiamtly two dozen watches over 6-7 years - none worth more than $300. Currently down to 6 but that feels a little light. Could I have saved all the money lost through depreciation etc (maybe $1500?) and bought 1 or 2 nicer pieces, sure. But what would I have picked as someone with no watch WEARING experience? Certainly not the same watches I would buy with $1500 now, because watch ownership is a journey. You have to WEAR different watches to even learn what you will actually like long term. Trying to travel down that road by only buying expensive watches will take a longer time and surely costs more. Also, after you invest so much time saving the money for a grail piece, is it even remotely possible to be objective about it's merits with all the attendant emotional investment? I doubt it. You HAVE to love it now. By the time I'm dropping big bucks I wanna be matured enough as a watch owner to KNOW what I like.

I have a Seiko snk800 pilot watch I got 5 years ago for about $70. It's pushing $200 today. A month ago I got a Berny homage of the same watch for under $70. It's has a Seiko V31 movement, sapphire glass and titanium case. Objectively speaking, it's a better watch than the original, discounting the auto/quartz issue. Seiko has gone overboard with their prices lately. Half the homage watches out there have Seiko movements anyway and If I need the accuracy of a high end Seiko automatic mvmt, I'll buy a quartz for 1/10th the price.

@Andrew.W75 I think "can't afford it" is a little synonymous with "I don't consider it a good value.". Kinda like that $45/lb steak that you could afford to buy, but can't afford to throw money away on. IMO, unless you're buying it to flip, lock away as an investment or designate as a family heirloom, and you're willing to eat stupidly high service costs, most modern, high-end watches are an overpriced extravagance fit only for those with money to burn on inflating their egos. I'd take a well curated collection of 10-20

It IS absurd to spend thousands on an item like a watch. It's also absurd to care about "homage" watches as much as most of the commenters on watch forums seem to. But most of the people who rail against homages seem to care a great deal about the topic. I think if one is an adult, (and also if one is fortunate enough to own expensive watches as well as enjoying cheaper ones), one will tend to care less. Let's put it this way; i personally look down on people who care whether someone buys a homage watch. I DON'T tend to look down on people who wear or buy homages. YMMV.

Yeah nice watch i have one , and a big grand diver .Good price for a well made watch . And the steeldive capt willard is a classic.

I wonder if a channel like Wristwatch Revival would feature something like this on his channel. He does do people’s watches from time to time, but I’m not sure if it’s exclusive to Patrions. You could also try to find a watch maker to see if that watch is repairable and for how much.

@@tinyman392 Not for anything even close to the price of even an excellent homage.

@@tinyman392 -I did not inherit that watch because my dad sold it at a yard sale in the 1980's. I hope whoever bought it brought it back to life, but the closest i am going to get is a homage. I have a local watchmaker I've taken a few pieces to for repair. I got a good deal a year or so ago on an old Rolex that wasn't running and he brought it back for $150.00 but he told me the '3rd. wheel' might be a problem in the future. besides the fact it's radioactive.

@@swilkobarfingtoniii1642 Oof, that's too bad; I was still hoping that either your dad or you still had the watch. Glad you found a watch maker that gives you a good deal though :) As long as you don't lick the dial, I think you'll be fine from the radioactivity :p

@@tinyman392 Now you tell me? Watchlicker sounds like an Aphex Twin track! Or maybe a RU-vid channel... :P

Heard that, they are now homaging Seiko 🤣🤣

@@ItumelengS ... an Eastern brand.

Save a tiny bit more than $300 and get a 39mm Steinhart Ocean One. Or try and find one second hand for less. They have a wide variety of colors and dial/bezel variants. If you're into vintage looking divers, also check out Gnomon's "exclusive" Steinharts which are all in 39mm and offer designs that Steinhart themselves don't sell. The quality and value for money of these watches are pretty much unbeatable. My wrist is also too small for 42mm divers, but those 39mm Ocean Ones look pretty much perfect on me (17cm wrist).

The Swiss watch industry started with mass producing fakes of British and French watches, and this space in general as you mentioned has countless examples of large brands copying each other throughout history. Many watches from large brands also contain a significant portion of parts/movements made in China, so the quality argument is a bit illogical as well given how loose labels like "Swiss Made" actually are. The fact that these points are seldom mentioned makes me wonder if there's an underlying tone of xenophobia when discussing topics like these.

@@SuperMooMooFarm Regarding "swiss made": The majority of the watch needs to be made in Switzerland. Recently the percentage has been increased from 50% to 60%. Plus Research and development needs to take place in Switzerland as well. The "Swiss made" label is one of the strictest of the world (only germany is stricter). So equating the quality of swiss watches with the quality of chinese watches for example is stupid as fuck.

When the San Martin AliExpress store gives you are more dignified buying experience than Rolex, THE watch brand, then it's no wonder people make fun of those buying luxury watches,

@@Alias_Anybody Let's be real here, luxury watch high horsee here are just masking their monetary superiority with appreciation of horology and blah blah, not they actually appreciate paying 100x for a 99% similarity thing.

Homage brands offer more and better quality and specs for half the price

Tell me a single Citizen model with pagani specs quality at Pagani price!!

You have nothing to be proud about wearing a knock off

@@williamwallace9427 keep malding

Keep wishing you could buy a real one

@@williamwallace9427 how is that a bad thing ?

Agree 100% ... I just bought the SD 1970 for $106 from Ali and love it.

You bought a sweatshop virtual counterfeit. Which makes you a lame d bag

@@williamwallace9427 ok, whatever you say. at least im not a fuckin idiot ranting on the internet.

Depends. I think the Casioak has a certain homage to the Royal Oak but remains very much unique. We need to call clone homages for what they are: Rebadged replicas.

How about car designs? I was wondering why we don’t see Ferrari homage cars.

@@victorvelazquez I believe a car's design can be protected through design patents. A design patent covers the ornamental aspects of a useful object. So these design patents are meant to protect aesthetic and not functional elements; in regards to watches I believe shape, size, crowns, etc. can all be considered "functional" which is why I don't think many (if any) watches have design patents.

@@ceja1500 Thanks. That makes sense!

Exactly. Even with a little wiggle room, it would be a civil trial which means ALL Rolex business practices would be fair game - they’d get embarrassed.

Except there are a ton of other brand that have unique design, don't break the bank and offer great quality.

You’re wrong. They are essentially counterfeits. Which makes you giant d bag if you wear it

@@williamwallace9427 why are you so pressed about this? If anything, calling someone a douchebag for wearing a watch you dislike makes *YOU* a giant douchebag

I get your point and I agree, but...I found a Tisell Explorer...with tolless bracelet adjustment...and it's so thin and well-fitting...I just couldn't resist. I would have gone for it even if it wasn't a current Rolex Explorer copy, but there's no denying that the first step on my purchase was an Epxlorer video by Adrian Barker...

👍👍👍

@@vaclav_fejt I just can’t bring myself to buy a full on copy homage of an explorer. I’d rather save the money to get a 114270 or buy a Smiths Everest. Also, Traska has a super good looking Explorer type watch in both 36mm and 39mm that’s pretty unique compared to most homages.

@@Dialandhands Interesting options. If the Smiths was available with my local retailers, I would have considered it. Traska has just one thing that puts me off - that hour hand. We'll see. If I ever go for something better, I'll get a Seiko or a Christopher Ward...maybe...

For that money you can get an actual alpinist

Why let others decide what you like?

@@chrispekel5709 that is exactly why they switched to a seiko. Because they want something that they like

@@Lobstersarefabulouz why did he buy the sub homage in the first place then? Clearly he liked it?

@@chrispekel5709 did you even read his comment properly? A person can change their mind ya know.

@@Lobstersarefabulouz of course. And I interpret it to mean he got his feel feels hurties when he felt bad for bot having enough money to buy the real thing, when he should have just laughed it off and not cared. It was the direct interaction with someone else that led to his decision making. Did you not read the comment?

cry about it

Guessing you can’t afford a real one

"Homage" sounds nicer than the name that actually should be used "cheap clone".

@@williamwallace9427 that's the whole point of buying an affordable watch yes, not being able to afford a 30 000$ watch is not an insult.

A bit over dramatic lmao?

I faced different feelings when I bought my Vostok...after the war started. I got over it, but I'm not as proud compared to, say, wearing an original Prim.

I know what you mean.

If a watch is able to make you "feel like a fraud", you should see a therapist instead of buying watches

Many of the Chinese homages do give the wearer the opportunity to experience the look of their grail watch. However, I can understand the sense of feeling a bit of a fraud by wearing it, even if the name on the dial is different.

The logo on the side is atrocious tho. I have one and I itch to sand off that logo to make it look less jarring

How about wearing original designs from affordable brands?? I don’t believe you need to buy a copy Daytona to find out if you like chronographs or a copy submariner to see if you like divers, there are so many options available that for me it is not justifiable to wear a clone watch, since I started collecting watches I wanted a Rolex sub but started buying Seiko, orient, Tissot, mido, longines, Oris, Hamilton, Tudor and finally arrived at a point where I can afford Rolex and own 5 at the moment, no matter how anyone tries to spin it wearing “homages (straight up copies)” is never justifiable.

@@sergiogarcia9822 for me homages are a novelty. A fun gag item. And they're sorta priced accordingly. It's like dressing up at halloween. Maybe you're pretending to be Zombie Elvis. Are you actually Zombie Elvis? No, that would be ridiculous. But you're having fun with the idea of it. To me it is similar and I didn't end up wearing most Pagani Design watches more than once even. One could argue my Seiko Prospex Speedtimer is a Daytona rip-off, it doesn't take a Pagani Design to do evoke that sorta response. Probably most watches from the same make in my like 40, 50... (+?) collection are from Seiko or Casio and I did say I like Micro Brands, which mostly are pretty unique designs. One of my favourite watches to wear on the daily is the Nodus Sector Pilot Phantom as I found out due to my irregular work I really have come to appreciate a day-date complication and the jubilee style bracelet which I had my reservations about turned out very classy and comfortable (something I also appreciate on my Seiko SSK GMT). I like different watches for different occasions, moods, outfits etc. I love my Seiko Presage Houjou Star Bar dress watch. I like the exotic dials on my Zelos watches. I love Titanium watches (etc the new Baltic Aquascaphe or various RZE models). In the summer I wore my yellow BT version of the G-SHOCK GA-B2100 a lot because I'm not afraid of ruining it during various watersport activities and I don't ever have to set it, because it's always 'go time!' when I grab it. That's what I meant... enjoy the journey. That might include homages. In my case homages can be regarded as a 'phase'. There's a very low threshold to get into. The designs are proven (albeit by other brands) with global recognition and appreciation. They're just sooo affordable. It's a good accelerator for anyone's watch journey to develop the tastebuds, get a feel for watch sizes, different styles (visually, not 'well dúh it's a chronograph (or diver), what did you expect') etc which I'm sure in most cases leads down a path far away from homages. In my case I now like things I haven't really seen before. An actual Rolex Submariner would bore me to death (in general I don't care much for Rolex; I only really like the reverse Panda Daytona and the early 50's Milgauss). My latest and biggest purchase to date was a close to $3k Ball Watch Co. 00RED limited edition (1 of 91). Which such a vast collection I probably could've had a small collection of luxury watches as well, but I honestly don't think I can argue I need a watch that is much more expensive than a Tudor BB58. Especially in this day and age where it gets dangerous actually wearing your luxury timepieces like you ought and should be able to. I get far more enjoyment from the vast variety and if getting a couple of homage watches in the beginning all lead to that, then great. Would I recommend people to skip that phase altogether? Probably. For me they've served their purpose and I now have no use for them. But I don't think it's tabu if someone still goes that route.

@@sergiogarcia9822 And I personally think the price of a Rolex isn't justifiable. And I think a homage watch is as harmless as a cover song. Luckily for both of us, we don't owe each other any justifications. No matter how anyone tries to spin it.

@@shiznuts Well, all the brands you mentioned are too expensive for what I would like to spend on a watch; they're all over 150€! IN my "fun" collection of around 15 watches, half of them homage watches, I have nothing over 100€.

I don't know what kind of 7th sense you have that you can "feel" slightly different types of polished stainless steel just by touching, but you should consider reaching out to some material scientists and or TV stations with that talent.

what he means by testing it is seeing if you actually like the watch once it's on your wrist or not. sometimes you like a watch on the photos but once you put it on your wrist it doesn't look as good to you anymore and you end up not wearing it often.

Another thing that debunks "hommage to try out if you like the design" is that if you spend 1000+ bucks on a watch you really really should go to the dealership and try the actual watch on. That is why I never ever understood why people buy watches over the internet. It is such a personal thing and watches usually always look different in person.