Should You Call Your Pastor a Priest? 

Greetings brother it's the same here in Denmark

Same in Sweden. We think ”pastor” sounds a bit baptist.

Sacrifice isn't over; only the propitiatory sacrifices. Otherwise there wouldn't even be a "priesthood of all believers", as it is the Church that offers the Eucharistic sacrifice (through her people) The reality is that ministers (by virtual of their vocation) ARE the priestly leaders of the priestly community -- in this sense, they are "ministerial priests" and not merely "general priests" (as all Christians are)...

@@vngelicath1580 Yes, all Christians are priests. Not all Christians are pastors. Calling some Christians "priests" in contrast to others will need more explaining than calling some Christians "pastors" in contrast to others.

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@Kaiser Grady Instablaster ;)

@Josiah Jon thanks for your reply. I found the site on google and I'm in the hacking process now. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

Ananda In the Roman Catholic ritual of baptism the pastoral priest or Deacon say's You are Prophet Priest King. And anointed with priestly oil. Chrism.

@@richardsaintjohn8391Interesting I didn't know that. It seems through scriptures that we partake of these things through faith in Christ without the need to go through "ordained priests". (1 Peter 2:5) "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ." (1 Timothy 2:5) "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" (Hebrews 4:14) "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession."

Asaph Vapor I just gave a summary of the information. I have a great deal information on this that actually affirms what I am saying to be true… The problem of your argument is that it only focuses on the western Latin church. In fact, you can actually go to the Cambridge etymology source and find that what I am saying is absolutely true

@Asaph Vapor Certainly, etymology is not the real meaning of the word. You obviously missed the point, so, it looks like I need to explain the point being made more clearly. First of all, many fail to understand to distinguish between a lexicon of original language and etymology. Yes, literally spoken and in the strictest sense, presbyteros means ‘elder’ and episcopos means ‘overseer’. This, according to some, would show that presbyteros is NOT the same as priest, which would be ‘hieros’ in the Greek, or ‘sacerdos’ in Latin. But here we bump into a first, obvious inconsistency. If being consistent, the word diaconos should be translated as ‘servant’, which it is not. So for this ministry, we see this word being narrowed down in meaning by the Christian world to mean no longer ‘servant’ in general, but a specific ministry that only some had, not all. All deacons are servants, but not all servants are deacons. Yet this is denied for the words presbyteros and episcopos, as if suddenly they MUST be read in the strictest reading possible, as if those words are not being redefined by the Early Christians to mean more than the original reading.

This inconsistency becomes even more glaring when considering the following: Timothy was by all appearances an elder or overseer, exercising the duties appointed to those offices (e.g. 1 Timothy 1:11-16, 4:17) and having the authority to appoint both (1 Timothy 3) - and yet Timothy was not an “older man” at all, but one to whom Paul exhorted, “Let no one despise you because of your youth” (1 Timothy 4:12). Ignatius of Antioch, writing in circa A.D. 107, commended an overseer who was likewise not an “older man” (Epistle to the Magnesians III). So we see that the words were not strictly applied to denote only the general meaning of ‘elder’, but as young men were ordained, it became more of a title for an office of ministry, away from the original meaning.

This is even further evidenced by the fact that the Latin translations did not translate the word presbyteros (the Latin word for ‘elder’ would be ‘senior’, as was the translation of ‘elder’ in Mat 27:1, where it did not apply to the new ministry, but instead was used in the old meaning), but kept it in the Greek, clearly signaling that something new was meant by it, and that it wasn’t simply ‘elder’ anymore. Further exploring the history of the word ‘priest’, we see that the Hebrew has the word ‘cohen’ (plural cohanim) to denote the sacrificial/ministerial priesthood of the old covenant. This word was also used for Egyptian religious offices (Gen 41:45), priests of Baal (2 Kings 10:19), Chemosh (Jer 48:7), etc. SO it was a generic term, not specific to the Hebrew or old covenant. In the Greek translations (e.g. the Septuagint), this word was rendered as ‘hieros’. Further translation to Latin rendered it ‘sacerdos’.

So we see that in the classical meaning, cohen, hieros and sacerdos denote the generic function of a specific religious man who offers to a god(s), as opposed to presbyteros which denotes an older man who by virtue of his age and wisdom/status presides over a local community. But why then don’t we see the NT priests called by those words? This is the point: they could not be called 'cohen' or the linked 'hiereus/sacerdos', since the NT priests were NOT cohanim, by law and by definition. Our language simple does not have (anymore) the words to discern between those different types of priesthood (English had 'sacerd' for a while, but by lack of a Jewish presence, that fine distinction got lost, the two words started to be used interchangeably, and sacrd got in disuse). Apart from 'cohen', the only Hebrew word available was komer, signifying pagan priest. That could not be used, for obvious reasons! So they needed a new word, and settled on presbyteros. Not to be kept in its original meaning, but a presbytery that was ministerial and priestly.

Christ means anointed.

Well, at least in some sense, the word Priest was etymologically derived from the word "Presbyter" (Elder). Therefore, the usage of "priest" is not completely unfounded. Link: www.etymonline.com/word/priest However, I do admit that etymology is complicated, and thus that argument for usage of the term isn't the strongest.

@@colerobbins124 the strongest argument for its non-use in the body of Christ are the teachings of the Apostle Paul.

@Asaph Vapor yes. God gave some the gift of Shepherding. Those people were elders/overseers. But they were not a formal office of people who were the only ones allowed to teach, preach, and baptize. This was made up by Ignatius in the 3rd century to create a professional class of Christians and was popularized by state churches after Constantine. Shepherds are good people who care for congregations. Not the face of the church.

@Asaph Vapor I think you should read the text in Ephesians more carefully. There is no OFFICE of pastor. The text you brought up is discussing the GIFT of pastor - unless, of course, you are arguing for FIVE separate offices. Scripture only teaches that there are two offices: ἐπίσκοπος, ου, ὁ; διάκονος, οῦ, ὁ, ἡ The work of one in the office of an ἐπίσκοπος is to ποιμήν. Unfortunately, the modern church has confused Biblical definitions by calling all those who hold the office of an ἐπίσκοπος a ποιμήν, thus, confusing the office with the work. Blessings

Asaph Vapor That would make five offices... The text is abundantly clear - they are canned GIFTS!

Asaph Vapor 1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop (episcopas) he desireth a good work.

Lay Priest. Pastoral Priest.

@Steven Millard the gentiles like to give themselves honorific titles but it shall not be among you. These pastors frankly are using naive people to give them money and status that is no where in the new testament

@Steven Millard they never addressed themselves as "Bishop Polycarp" or "Elder Clement". Paul never called himself "Apostle Paul". They referred to themselves as "Paul, an apostle of Christ". It may not seem like a difference but it is. They were describing themselves as people doing a certain function, exercising their gifts God has given them, rather than by formal titles.

California Lewis You just contradicted yourself “I Paul, an apostle of Christ” - he calls himself apostle. ..they’re holding an office though, not just “performing functions”

@Steven Millard no. The preisthood god established in the old testament was because of man's sin. But now, there is one mediator between God and Man, the man Christ Jesus. He is the high preist. Of course you would think its dangerous because you've been brainwashed by clergy. If the lay people found out the truth about New Testament ministry, the ministry "profession" might be threatened.

California Lewis We have a God of order. Lutherans are bound to Augsburg Confession Article XIV - “no one ought to preach, teach or administer Sacraments without a rightly ordered vocation”

Steven Millard you seriously think that everything in the Old Testament was abolished just because of Jesus coming. The Old Testament was a pattern for things to come. A shadow. The apostles/bishops/elders, the fulfillment of the prophets and priests of the Old Testament

@@aaroncarlson1162 your bound by your traditions and dogmas then. Not by the scriptures. So much so that you quote a 16th century document rather than the bible. No, elders and bishops are not new covenant preists. They are never assigned that role by the scriptures. I think it's hilarious that Lutherans claim to scripture alone but can only quote dogma and tradition to make their case. You are bound by your traditions. The clergy only want your money and the state Lutheran church which wrote the augsburg confession put that in there to protect their profession. God does not place Christians in a heirarchy.

@Asaph Vapor exactly. God chose ordinary people without education to preach and baptize. And Paul instructed the churches to raise up elders. In 1 Timothy, Paul gives qualifications for who can be an elder and none of the qualifications include seminary education or denominational endorsement or even formal ordination. This is a tradition made up by the clergy to protect their profession.