@@venmis137 not at the same time - he means 10 000 different types of kicks. Obviously there's probably only a few dozen different types of kicks across all of martial arts but Bruce was apparently Ti/Ni consume last so the concept was what he was going for.
I think the difficulty that Dave and Shan might be encountering is that if you don't have Si you don't have Ne either. Si is about getting the detailed steps of the process right, Ne is about visualizing the overall goal of the process and how the steps work together. It's easier to trust the process if you can visualize where it's taking you
This works literally when I think in terms of building a structure in Minecraft. With Ne, I can imagine how blocks will fit together to achieve certain shapes. But I couldn't actually put them together without using Si gathering the blocks and just getting it done. Using only Si, I could build a bunch of things, but they would be generic forms.
i guess im asking randomly but does someone know of a way to get back into an Instagram account..? I somehow forgot my login password. I would appreciate any assistance you can offer me.
That's why learning the discipline to organize & maintain a clean room will help you not only run your business but more importantly, your life. I'm sadly an ENTP and had to learn this the HARD way!
For any gamers out there, best way to see Si, at least for me, is something like this.. Whenever inviting Se friends to play an MMO, they will always have clean inventories, completely cleared out banks, they get a new item, they don't like it? Delete! In comparison, I'm like a hoarder! Mine will be stuffed with so many items that I could see being used later and items I know might be useful, items I might need to research and learn about later on, so why would I dare get rid of any of them? My Se friends will try to go 10 steps ahead while I'm moving slowly behind them making sure I'm not skipping anything important. They like to charge right into battle whereas I CAN'T GO INTO BATTLE until I finish this and have this buff on and prepare these potions.. YES, this is the process! You don't just go out into battle without following the process! I'll spend the extra 10 minutes to get 5% more on my return for completing this quest, but they're like, what? My time is more valuable than that a measly 5%! (and they're right, why do I need to complete every. single. thing. on. the. list?) They'll scrap the quest and move on! Scrap the quest? WHAT? You don't do that! Why not? Well.. you just... YOU DON'T DO THAT! I've found, many times, that after my Se friends push me out there too early out of my comfort zone, it all goes fine. Sure, it wasn't perfect. We didn't do X Y and Z silky smooth, we may have suffered a couple losses we otherwise wouldn't have. But, we got it done. It was fine. The prep work and that process, often times, it isn't necessary. I can get carried away with perfecting builds and having these slick solutions ready and waiting to be used for different scenarios, but my Se friends just say screw it, they get in there and make it happen with what they have and they move on. My Se friends get burnt out rather quickly and juggle many different games at the same time. That's insane to me. I need like a week just to switch gears and get comfortable in my state of mind for something different, and when I do, I'm immersed, and it's hard to stop thinking about it even after the fact. The same applies to the real world. I have a hard time throwing things out (but when I eventually do it is such a burden relieved) because there are potentialities for every item and because there's sentimental value with them all, memories attached, etc! And I get so stuck in my comfort zone and won't even move on different tasks, many times because in that moment it wouldn't be perfect if I did. Don't have X tool to do Y job perfectly? Screw it, I won't do it, I won't make any progress. Don't have the time to clean my office perfectly, the way it needs to be done? Screw it, none of it's getting cleaned! The mess is more comfortable to me than a job not done to its full potential. If the proper process isn't feasible, nothing's getting done. Lots of personality systems call Si users the laziest people, and that might be true, but we have our reasons, haha!
I play WWII air combat games. The Si players are great at performing intricate maneuvers that I could never do. They're capable of really fancy flying to get out of impossible situations... when they see it coming. That's what they really struggle with: enemies can sneak up on them. They seem to have a laser focus and things that fall outside of that beam go unnoticed until it's too late.
With Savior Ne with Demon Si messy inventories get really fun. On my computer I've got a tonne of folders with very similar names and all thrown in locations that they may or may not should be in. The difference, with Ne you constantly jump between different concepts and ideas, so you regularly abandon or put on hold multiple projects without properly internalizing the Si, so a clean inventory (or computer) with what would have been organised chaos for an Si Savior becomes digital landfill. I'm just glad most of what I work with is in image form, otherwise I'd never be able to pick anything back up... (INTP)
Si is about precision & orderliness. Once I do something and file all of the steps that work best in my memory bank, I'll do it exactly the same way every time. Breakfast, I make it the same way every time, until something else intrigues me or I stumble upon something else. I'll mull it over in my mind and then if I like it I'll integrate it into my routine, especially if it works better than the previous way. If I want to do something new, I'll watch a bunch of videos of other people doing it until I have the process mapped out in my mind, then I do it exactly that way and then adjust wherever I need to. The memory of lead Si is amazing, I remember all the details of everything, anything I've ever done in my life. I can close my eyes and it's like I'm there reliving that moment as if it were happening right now. Something in my present moment will spark a memory and the memory comes back like opening a file folder in a computer with a video of the event. I internally sense the sights, sounds, tastes, smells, and feels of it all.
Huh, I do that too as an Ne dom. For me on creative projects I'm going after conceptual goals / pillars and for me routine is because its mentally too hard to organize and follow steps on new processes. It's not because I want the same thing every day necessarily I guess. It's just mentally way easier to not have to think about how to make lunch
Karate Kid, wax on wax off. Practice makes permanent. Do something enough times, it becomes second nature. Know it like the back of your hand. The thing you have to watch out for though, is that bad stuff gets locked in just as easily as good stuff.
I don’t think she’s saying “if you do #1 it will lead you to #2.” She’s saying “you NEED to do #1 in order to get to #2.” What wasn’t mentioned is that you actually need to do it well too. This is a very different approach from Te which throws shit at the wall. Si is building a ladder to the end goal. And for Si throwing shit at the wall creates a very shaky metaphorical ladder. As Fi-Si I find it incredibly difficult to go to #2 without being content with #1. Si trusts the process because there is a lot of effort invested into it. Similar to how Ti trusts their reasons and Fi trusts their values. I will point out though that Si can be very painful. It is very taxing on the mind. And it makes starting very difficult. If you can use Te to start and Si to continue, then you’re good.
Mylaur my understanding is that in each case Si is serving to fulfill either Te (what works for others) or Ti (what works for me). In this case Si kinda takes a supportive function.
Thank you for explaining that. One of my sisters is lead Si and I always want to understand my loved ones better. My Si is very weak and low-priority compared to hers.
I'm an INTP, TiNe, but I learned to use Si to my advantage when I started teaching English. I was like "there are all these great ideas floating around, but I can only make my students see them if I give them a map first". Of course it doesn't work for everybody, and I had to develop the hell out of my Fe to get them to listen to me, but eventually it paid off. This year I got a student that already knew a little English and wanted to improve his conversation skills. In the first class we just chatted, and I picked up some basic mistakes he was still making, despite being very eloquent. So the next class I brought some basic material to fix those mistakes, and he said that that kind of thing was boring, he wanted more advanced stuff. But I knew he couldn't go forward if he didn't fix those basic mistakes first, so I pretended to acquiesce. The class after that I brought some more advanced material that would teach him "the advanced stuff", but also review some of the basic things. He realized there was some repetition in there, but I encouraged him to go over it quickly and try the new topics. After he did the activities, I was able to show him where he was making mistakes. He was so angry at himself for not noticing these things on his own that he studied his old material all over again, in addition to the new things I was showing him. After a month he thanked me for insisting on going over the boring stuff and for putting up with his "strong personality" (his words, not mine).
Sir you're a great smart guy I'd have forced him to study, because that is the optimal process. Do it even if you dislike it. "If you don't want to do it, it's your fault" INTP here too but not as great Fe skills as you.
My husband is lead Si, he doesn't know anything about personality/functions, but he frequently refers to "prior self trust", because he has a lot of systems in place and kind of a terrible memory. So, he has to trust that he set it up right the first time, so when he gets back to it, he can find things etc.
As an INTP I'm starting to see the value of doing a boring task over and over. You're laying bricks for a wall, which is obvious to most people I'd say. But I really struggled with it for a long time because when you're smart in school, you get instant gratification and don't need to learn to be disciplined in order for a payoff.
Oh My God, I feel the same way, I was such a good student, and I barely studied at all.. Which kind of made my life a bit more difficult, becausr I didn`t learn how to.be disciplined. Adding to that, my mom also didn`t make any rules, and now this is hard. Job, chores, and finding the time to pursue your dream is really challenging. I am getting more able to do it now.. Coming fron an INFP..
I’m married to an isfj and trust the process is a decent way to sum it up. It’s all about creating the steps to get from a - z and then religiously following those steps when executing. And they are very good about executing that plan efficiently and will not stop until the final step has been completed. They are loathe to deviate from their plan, even if there’s a faster way to do things because they have already established something that works. And yes, she’s very good at video games and puzzles haha.
It's true. The ISFJs I know stand out as being naturally better with technology, video games, and puzzles than ESTP/ESFP/ISTP/ISFP, who tend fumble around until something interesting happens. STPs go full rage mode when something doesn't work for their train of logic. SFJs go full rage mode when something changes without warning, like if you misplace their stuff.
Si is high resolution planning. So it’s step by steps, so it’s details. I guess having a connection to the physical objects as something subjective push them to organise all of them together in their head or something. Narrow down experiences into that frame so it’s past oriented.
high resolution planning is the perfect way to put it. because both Si and Ni are planners, but it's Si that does the --> i gotta do this, to activate the next thing. the breakdown essentially of the entire process, then get into it to cover for every possible concept or outcome. whilst Ni overplans for certain situational awareness, not really steps but a certain thing or danger in mind in which they fear they may not be able to react fast enough to the details coming at them.
Ne-Si Superpowers: Ne - complex connections of subjective possibilities Si - real world intricate tasks that can be done over and over again Actualizing the Ne gives Si a boost of extra productivity and complexity
Am an ENFP and a carpenter, and throughout my apprenticeship this was truly the biggest hurdle to overcome. I found it so hard, but so rewarding to trust the process from A-Z. In life in general, this still is my biggest hurde to overcome 🙃
@@orihoola I wanted to skip most of the boring steps. Now that I am some years older (24 atm), I have learned to appreciate trusting the process and laying a good foundation to a greater degree.
i’m an enfp and the other day i realized why i weirdly love baking and cooking and following the instructions bc it’s a little mini Si project (that i don’t have to commit to)
Dave and Shan, I know I say this often, but I have to say it again! The level of value and growth you guys have brought to my life is mind-blowing! I thank God for you! ❤️🤗🤗
Yes!!! As an infp, Si is my 3rd function, but I do that. Step further, I must do that. I cannot not do it if i want to actually finish something and not have it fall into the abyss of ideas. I imagine something i want to do/ make/ write/. Thinking of doing the thing is powerfully overwhelming. Used to be, it would get the best of me and id be stuck in that analysis paralysis. lts taken me years to train myself to think ok, where to begin? start here, must make a list. Step one is xyz.. two lmnop.. so on, and i'll be damned if i didn't finish the thing well and good! Thus the list writing. I did always "know"all the parts.just never occurred to write anything down. Lol. Now I'm very dependent on the frigging lists. So much so, if its not there its not getting done. Its like my mind is like" wwait, you mean i can actually control the environment? It doesnt have to be something that happens and i just have to deal? Ace! Ima do that list thing. " lol and god forbid i should have to skip one of the steps. Nope. Not skipping. Must do in order. Or idea gets scrapped, rethought and births new list. Lol.. is this Si, idk, bruh, maybe ocd. Haha
Filippos Addimando I’d argue any introverted savior function is fulfilling. I’m Fi-Si, and, boy, Fi makes me happy. I am sure Ti’s feel the same way about their dominant function too. And have you heard Jordan Peterson talk about his Ni? He invested decades into it.
@@sashamotovylets1753 Ti does not make very "happy". Ti is quite a desinterested function, like Ni. They're quite detached from the self and it's pleasures. What they might experience is a sense of satisfaction. However, I do not think it is like Fi in that sense. Fi is more like Si. Both are very "attached" and aimed on the person themselves. Ti and Ni seek indifferent truth.
Nah it's not underrated. Si doms can be incredibly stuck in their own ways, and as soon as little puzzle piece or step in the procedure is missing they can throw a temper tantrum.
Yea, Si is quite undervalued, but it's quite a difficult function to use without investing a huge amount of time, the exact and correct physical steps in order must be memorized, which takes an immense level of patience and diligence to achieve, if not inspired by curiosity, but I think where it pays off is when it's balanced with "Ne" when the aim is to figure out how something works
So I guess Si doms with masculine Ne really have a problem here? Because they will not remember the steps, they will remember a connections of pictures and ideas.
@@toni2309 I'm not sure, but I don't think it's that they won't remember, they'll just be agreeable with it- that is- they might not show conviction or might be Double-minded when using their "Si" if it's feminine. Not sure though
There is a brilliant RU-vidr called David Murray (the 8-bit guy). He restores and mods old computers. I wonder if he has saviour Si because the way he goes through the process step by step it sounds very much as you've described it here.
This explains A LOT! It also shows me yet again what an asshole I am! I used to have more Si friends than any other type, but as I started becoming more self aware and aware of the people I was surrounding myself with, I realized that the Si people appeared to have been using my friendship to meet people they deemed important and get them something they were after. It seemed like they had an agenda rather than genuine transparent connection. When I started seeing it over and over, I dropped almost all of them with no explanation. Some I had been friends with for many years. It hurt to do it and I cared about them and even felt like deep down they were wonderful people. However, loyalty in friendship is one of my core values, and I wasn’t getting a fraction of what I was giving. (Typical overactive FE 🙄) I feel bad now because obviously this is how their mind works and it’s not ill-intended or intentional. This trait they have is obviously beneficial in everyday life, but it also explains their struggle in relationships and friendships. I obviously need to give more of the grace that I expect others to give to me. I’m grateful OP is teaching me more every day about what an asshole I am so I can correct it! I used to think I was a loving person! 🤦♀️ I “feel” love for everyone and I genuinely want good things and happiness for everyone, but my behavior does not always reflect that. I can be very hard on others. I still have a lot of work to do! -ENFJ
I've found most ENFJs to be like this. Just overactive/aggressive "love-bombing" and wanting to fix every problem but if you don't respond appropriately they disappear/betray you/smite you down. They are insanely paranoid so much so that if you say anything about them to someone else when they aren't around, even to give status updates on a project you're working on together, they instinctively think you betrayed them or said something bad about them. And rather than confront you and sort it out and deal with an unpleasant exchange you'll find they've packed their bags in secret and no reason given for leaving.
basic decaf I never looked at it like that, but you’re exactly right. It’s a little less about paranoia than about loyalty but I can certainly see why it looks that way. What we are thinking is that if I consider someone a close friend, I don’t talk poorly behind their back and I will stop anyone who tries to talk about them to me. If someone I’m loyal to isn’t loyal to me, I have no reason to trust them. Why would I want to be in any kind of relationship with someone I can’t trust? I’ve been doing a lot of inner work and now I see how that is extreme. I still believe in loyalty but I want to have some balance in my reactions. I appreciate you sharing how our behavior looks to other types. I am absolutely guilty of what you’re saying regardless of my intentions. It’s my having a warped perception of the intentions of others. Thank you for sharing!
@@danad401 Well, it actually is paranoia.. Paranoia about loyalty. Everyone, every type, understands loyalty. It's not extreme to expect loyalty from your friends and colleagues. It's extreme however to call into question their loyalty when it's over something neutral. Why is loyalty even being considered at every turn? The obsessive me vs. tribe thing is not healthy. Giving a project update is a neutral thing. "I wish you wouldn't have done that without me being there." It's ironic because ENFJs will do anything to get things done, even go bark to upper management far outside their "proper place" or station.. yet, they feel betrayed when other people are, in a completely neutral state, actually properly doing their jobs. Haha, it's just funny. I have literally just worked on my work before and I've been called emotionally manipulative by an ENFJ for doing it. Like, you give me too much credit, I'm actually just doing my job, not playing a game with you.
basic decaf What you’re saying does makes sense. I will have to work on that. As for “doing your job”, no one is obligated to take time to bring awareness to others. I can’t speak for other ENFJs you know, however, I would not think someone’s work would be manipulative, nor did I even consider that you were playing some sort of game by responding. I took your response as taking the time to bring awareness to someone who needs to be aware that their perception and behavior of a situation is toxic and needs to be corrected. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m in my 50’s and I’m trying to have a healthy, balanced mind and healthy perceptions of others which means doing things differently and learning from mistakes. That being said...I consider your response a kindness and a help.
@@danad401 Haha, well here's another example. My last comment was simply referencing an ENFJ that I worked with and what he would do. It had nothing to do with our exchange, you or your reaction to my comment, or anything, I was just talking through his behavior. It's behavior similar to what I've noticed in other ENFJs, so that's why I was talking through it. It's interesting that you seemed to spin that differently than my intention. But thank you for listening.
Oh wow, this is great. Best description of Si I have heard by far. When I plan I have every step in mind already and then just take one step after another. This makes managment super easy, I can quickly see where everyone has to go and what they have to do so that everything works, like clockwork. Every piece fitting together.
As Ne dom, I totally do Si (cheating with Ti). Decided I wanna learn crochet, with my 20 tabs open, swearing because I can't Se see what. I'm doing wrong. Figures it out and do 5 rows. Yells 'im a genius!' and leaves it as another unfinished project.. yup, I'm definitely an Si Dom 😁
WOW. Dave's mention of Zelda and not wanting to follow the steps was amazing to hear. I've felt that way all my life and never heard anyone else express that. I only like open-world games, especially city builders, or games like Anno for that reason hahah.
Ne-Si, can you relate to this? I'm supposed to be an ENFP so I'll tell you how I learn anything (language, music, Blender 3D, python language etc) : I learn the basics of the basics then I just get an idea of something I want to do, I try to do it with what I know, I get stuck somewhere, I try to figure out on my own, I'm still stuck, I search how to resolve it ( I want a simple, quick yet complete answer), finds some other interesting things while searching (I put this in a box on the side of my brain, it could be useful later), I find the solution, it resolves my problem, I continue my project, I get stuck again, I try to figure out on my own etc etc until I finish the project (if I finish it 😅) For academics I never read the chapters or watch the videos in the order if I'm not completely lost. I usually hate reading the instruction manual before using something. I could read it but I'm not interested, so I won't. Figuring it out usually is easier to do. Thing will work eventually.
Yes! Especially the part about getting stuck and sidetracking to something interesting that will be useful later. I’m still not sure of my type but I’m 100% sure I have demon Si. I learn as I do, rather than taking tutorials, it just makes me insanely bored and I always end up skipping steps or doing everything in a way that makes more sense to me. I have this tendency to learn by seeing how everything works as a whole and then understanding the basics as I see them interacting with each other. That’s why I grow very impatient with language courses but pick up on languages very easily on my own. Same thing with music, I barely know anything about theory, can’t tell which note is which, or can’t read music sheets, but I can still learn / play by ear and I know the right notes, pressure, and timing. And yes, I do suffer when realizing I missed something important but it’s still really hard for me to do things in an specific order haha
I agree 100% and I'm an ENTP, Ne-Si also. The worst freek outs are when I lose sth or the computer doesn't work (IT'S A MACHINE ITS SUPPOSED TO RUN PERFECTLY). I've broken 3 disks by hitting the machine. People never get on my nerves like that. And also everything has it's place so if sth dissappear I know "it's not there, it's not there, ok, I've lost it" and I don't suffer. I'm extremely organized (my demon in a savoir weird-touchy-neurotic way).
@@UnsuspectingCommenterPassingBy OMG the languages course and music learning I'm the same ~~~~ If I don't have someone to monitor me, I will always try to play this cool Ost I heard the other day instead of practicing the technical aspect because "I got it"
Ne-Fi Consume, Si-Fi Sleep. When I get into my Sleep, I notice my focus tunnel visions down onto 1 thing. Suddenly, I get so much smoother and more coordinated on that 1 thing. For example, dancing with Ne is sloppy but when I focus into Sleep the world around me kinda quiets down and I'm alone with my steps. My foot moves exactly where I want it to go, not just sorta close. My arms don't look as jerky and awkward. That kinda thing. (And yeah, I'm going into a kinesthetic perspective. That's just where my Si-Fi seems to be. Not sure how a visually-oriented person would experience Si differently, but I'm sure it would be stark.)
This is great! Si is probably the least well understood of the 8 basic functions. So many of us assume that we understand Si and it stops us from learning more.
I've finally learned to recognize what Si "looks like". I can recognize who has Si/Ne vs who has Se/Ni. But it's frustrating that I can't yet feel what it feels like to have Si. But that feeling of ignorance and frustration drives me to keep learning
3:04 master one stitch and you've mastered the entire thing I should be able to leverage my understanding of Ni to understand Si… So, for me, I use my Ni to dig down to the fundamental generic principals and formulas that will work with ANY Sensory details. So maybe Si is doing the same thing, but in reverse. Maybe Si is digging down the the fundamental specific details and info that will work with ANY conceptual patterns?
@@subtleGradient That's a great way to put it, the fundamental sensory material that will work for any conceptual pattern. Understanding the building blocks of, say, cooking in order to make wild and Ne interesting new recipes
As an Ni dom, I can imagine that Si trust the process because they unconsciously fear the future which then prevents them from questioning the immediate reality. In a way, they have no choice. However, the same applies to Ni as Dave points out here. Both organize, but they live in totally different worlds.
That's when Si fears Ne but how about it being healthy? As TiNe I don't fear the future so that's not the reason why I Si trust the process. It's because it's the actual actionable steps of the conceptual fabric of reality. Si is systemic and I like that with my Ti. In fact I'd confuse Si for Ti.
The term for this kind of step by step organization is "dependency chain" - where the interrelation of each option tells you the most efficient order of completion (or, I suppose, the most emotionally rewarding series for those with savior feeling).
How good is your replication of sensory information? How often do you effectively consume details, then blast them into practice? If I watch a video of someone cooking, I can remember all of the ingredients in order, strategize how I will pick everything up on my way to the store, and replicate the recipe in the same order at home without having to constantly refer back to the video because of my ability to organize those details for the short term and if repeated, it will stick for the long term. Maybe you do this in some manner, even unconsciously with a process in your life?
Ne dom has a super interesting perspective because the process we're trusting and mastering is learning a concept and locking it in. When making music I try to lock in rhythms and vibes, which are ultimately a bit abstract and free form but used solidly
This makes so much more sense to me now! I was quite conflicted when I attributed myself to be an Ne user, but wasn't sure how the Si function played into that. People often described "Si" users as those that "trust the process", and I always thought "well, I always second guess myself and never really 'trust' the process (especially I'm learning something new and someone else is giving instructions), so I don't really see how I would be an Si user". Now, based on my understanding it seems that Si-users (or at least I, as an Si user) "respect" process and understand its purpose rather than what I understand to be "trusting" the process.
ISTJ here: I want NOTHING MORE than to find short cuts and break systems in life, but whenever I try to do that, I find myself running into a wall at 100 m/ph Wile E. Coyote style. Then I want to punch a hole into the wall because I know I have no choice but to go back to the beginning and get it right. It's absolute hell feeling like everything in life has to work like that, but it's our only way to achieve our goals: research, research, practice, practice, experiment, fail, try again etc. I don't even wish this on my worst enemy. Meanwhile I watch my SP and NJ friends trying to do the same thing and they're like, ''Super easy Bruh! Just do this and that and you're all set!'' BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW!!!
It's just not. TeSi B/P. I get stuff done and see it through. But if there's too much abstraction or lack of clarity, I get annoyed and just irritate the hell out of everyone.
The way I see it, trusting every step (Si) comes down to expecting not to necessarily win at the END, but counting every little step ( which u could divide to manageable pieces ) as a win which doesn't crash you emotionally, and in another sense if u go back to Ne which is better at starting and not necessarily finishing things especially when they're big( in other language when they contain too many little steps and more complicated and longer in time), they ( Si and Ne ) match up well, there's an uncertainty to Ne as a function which always sees endless opportunities, a feeling of nothing is done or finished or there's a lot of alternatives, and for Si also I think trusting the steps comes from a form of uncertainty that is such unimaginable that you come to this conclusion to just stick to little steps, whereas for Ni and Se it's not about being INSIDE of the process but looking at it from a distance
Try people with executive disfunction. I struggle with breaking down tasks into small steps, get confused on what to do, and I for the sake of god cannot follow instructions. I just miss steps, don't see things, confuse the order, and just can't seem to be able to focus on one step after the other.
I'm an ENTP. In my life I've noticed that in the areas where I've grown the most are systems of knowledge that are SO complicated that there's no way my Ne can help me, like astrology for example. In that case I listen and learn and try to understand the little I can, so once I've mastered some pieces my Ne can get it and that's when I feel I lose interest. When my mother try to understand sth with her Ni (she's an IxxJ) she lose her temper because she NEED to know how that knowledge relates to her Ni and I'm like (with Dave's voice) "be patient, I don't understand either, but we will". She won't do it unless I'm with her and help her calm her anxiety telling her that it's sth NEW buy IT MAKES SENSE. TRUST ME. I've seen some Si minimal evidence it's true.
@@simonmeehan362 LOL In my way through College I've learned to do my Si in a weird-neurotic way. Everything has its place because if I lose the keys I FREAK OUT. People could not believe when they saw me hitting the computer because I needed to deliver my homework and that shit wasn't working. I can stand control chaos with knowledge when it's about a topic that's interesting to me, but I'm my sensory life it get on my nerves like nothing else.
Trying to start my own business is forcing me to do this Si thing that I personally have hated in the past. I usually see my Si as lacking patience. So I have made a routine....it hurts to follow, but I try and fail most days. I actually have thought back to school, how teachers set up lessons and homework assignments in order to get us to learn. Setting up that school system has been helping me to learn how to run my own business. Hoping that I can keep the momentum going and see this to the end.
I'm an ENFP and this really blew my mind because it helped me to see Si in a positive light. In her analogy, I'm constantly wanting to abandon the quest and go off on my own quest. It's also interesting to hear how you two with Ni/Se have trouble trusting the process. I think for myself, I do trust the process, I just really don't want to do it. It's boring, expected, predictable. But I'm also realizing that the times in my life that I've achieved the most is when I've just grit my teeth and went along with the boring old process.
As an ENTJ I have been obsessively trying to crack Si at one time. And my take away is not quite like what you have described or what the lady described. I don't have the proper language for this but so I will use an analogy. Say someone needs to start a gardening project. An S user will be able to access all the personal historical data on their physical experience with gardening to achieve the present goal (Si) and the ability to navigate the physical elements in the present (Se). N users, on the other hand, will be able to have a vision of what are the steps needed to achieve the goal (Ni) and the ability to see various possibilities of deferent outcomes (Ne). So Si to me is like always registering what's going on in their physical environment to form a prefered state of being in the present. Outsider looking at it so I may not be totally accurate so am.open for corrections.
Interesting. Pair that Si sequence of cause and effect with Te and yeah...you've got someone who knows how to get things done, and done exactly right. My sister is an ISTJ and I envy her organizational skills. I see her picking up new interests (like most recently, she learned about law and became a paralegal seemingly overnight) and just not having ANY doubt. Meanwhile, with my tertiary si, I've been writing this book series for like 15 years, and I'm stuck in a low status factory job because I don't want responsibility lol
Basically, learning the Specifics, unlocks the Principles. "From one thing, know ten thousand things". So if you learn how to drive a manual transmission in one car (clutch, heel-toe, rev matching, etc), you can now pretty much drive any stick-shift car. Interesting.
Yeah.That's it! You got it. I type my mum as an istj, and she a very good driver but her fears and concerns about driving always makes me laugh and wonder. I just started driving more often like a year ago, yet she still has some fears, and won't let me drive in specific areas because she says it's dangerous for an inexperienced driver, and I'm like mum... I've been driving for over year now trust me, I'm a double observer "Ne-Si", and sometimes I skip some "Si" principles/rules because I understand the reasons for some of the rules, then I just forget to follow at times or dismiss them in some scenarios due to "Ne",for example, she freaks out when I don't use an indicator in some places, and I'm like mum, don't worry I see that there is no car behind me or too close to me to not be unable to maneuver when I slow down to make a turn, but she's like nooo, using an indicator shows that you know what you are doing, and I think because I don't follow some of those rules at times as caused her to question my competence. Lool.
(INFP) Mother is Lead Si and Multiple friends also. Go figure, one practices calligraphy and my mother lays out a day of cooking like hero's planning to dethrone the bad guy in a movie. Me on the other hand, I'm cutting corners while still formulating the process.
I have trouble following recipes, but if I learn a new skill then I can use that intuition more dynamically as I go. Actually taking the time to measure things out melts my brain
Ignoring the tiny concrete details. Not trusting that learning the basics will eventually be useful, and instead focusing on the conceptual through line or big picture idea.
Most times when I get instructions I look at the end first. Then I miss stuff and I skip steps and I screw it up and have to start all over and go slow. Definitely inferior Si in my case.
It is the same for all main cognitive functions - trust it, and follow it, because it is your strength, whether it is Si Ni or whatever. And read up on the theory to understand the tripwires of your function. Si's challenge in my eyes is getting tripped up by past experiences, and also judging your current actions harshly because you expect them to affect you in the future.
To the best of my knowledge, Ne is my 2nd function, and Si is my 3rd. I assume that Ne is what makes me good at things like finding items other people lost. The phrase "to do this, I must 1st do that" makes perfect sense to me, but it doesn't seem like an intuitive-"trust the process" behavior to me. It feels more like it is logically the best way to achieve the objective. Time after time, I'll get to work on something, but then people don't understand what I'm doing. They'll tell me "I thought you were doing X." I'll explain "Yes. X is the goal, but to do X, I must 1st do Y." They usually get confused "But X is not Y." I try to break it down "Y is just the groundwork to make X possible. X will be ready to go, and it will work effectively because I prepared by doing Y 1st," but they'll have none of it. Can anyone explain these misunderstandings?
6:27-6:37. When she's talking about her arrangement, and she's like, there's no marker label on it, but I know it's beside the gigantic bleach, so it's definitely the "bleach-water" mixture may indicate saviour feminine "Si"
The bottles thing is so hilarious, cause I have 8 of the exact same bottles in my bathroom, with different things in them, but because of the different colour and smell, I never even thought about labeling them.
Yes! What's weird as a Ne/Ti, I had to see the complete big picture and then I am comfortable with the Si steps and see how it's leading to the end results.
instead of going for owning the process, i usually just go straight to enjoying the process while doing it (se). usually i will immediately forget about my ni that afraid of the sensory process. going for the reps of se will help me to balance the ni
Have you heard of the egg peeling community? They peel off the shells without breaking the membrane and race each other. It's the most maddening thing you will ever see.
Just to clarify "process" is more of a Ni thing while "structure" is a Si thing. Like you can trust a process because you can understand it verse trusting the structure even if you don't really understand it.
Wrong. Process is a name of a group of sequencial and repetitive actions to do something. ACTIONS, SENSORIAL thing. Process is a literal, factual, sensorial thing, so process is a si and se thing. Ni is no process.
Yeah, it gets easier to trust the process once youve done it a million times, as every artist knows. There is somethinh innate tgat they learn about the process every time they work it, but also that there is some secret about that process that the artist knows and has always known since their very first work. And that secret is what has tugged along the artist thru all those toils to get so good.
Ni is pretty similar I think in the sense of observing the whole story. I think it would just be more focused on the narrative and personal relationships within it.
I am an ENTJ and we use Si. I use it in cooking. I like cookbooks. It’s just that I don’t like using Si if I don’t have value the thing I’m trying to achieve. I don’t Fi value so I don’t want to do it.
5:58 I'm an INFP, and this is how I am when I build structures in Minecraft. It hurts a lot to have to make alterations to my builds. I hate having to do things multiple times..I just want to put a ton of effort into doing it once, and never have to worry about doing it again. I imagine that Se+Ni people would be more comfortable throwing blocks down and making changes as they go. They need to be able to see what they're building so that they can filter down the sensory and decide whether or not what they're building is correct or pleasing. I prefer to imagine it all in advance, and then to build to this abstract image.
I feel like the Si-process based thing is easy for me to undestand because of my Ti-dom (I'm a ISTP). Heavy Te/Ni users may be confused because of the rush to get concrete results
I see the value of Si and how it works, but I still find it boring. Sometimes I know it’s the better way (when it is), I just don’t want to use the repetition, the patience, etc. Also, it can be VERY inflexible and stubborn when it’s wrong... but I guess we all do that in different ways.
Gosh! I can relate to the ending. That's why my mom doesn't understand why I eat overdue food that already has a bit weird smell and why I can't notice stuffs that need to be cleaned. I should take a look and observe it, but it's tiring, not obvious.
reinforcing again my confidence about me being an esfj cause i do that too and so automatically that if i haven't watched this video, i would've never knew how GOOD/HIGH Si i have.
Si about that refined art and process... I do think it fits music too. And that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm perfecting the little steps. No idea how the Ni/Se are doing it. Why wouldn't you learn to lay down the bricks (basics)?
The problem is that it definitely works in small things, but it is increasingly less likely in larger things. As the goal gets bigger, fewer and fewer people succeed, and we intuit that fact. Look at all the hardworking perfectionistic ballet dancers who never reached the top. So trust the process in small things, but don't assume it will work for big things.
Aka my mum on ancestry.com - gotta fill in those gaps (aka family members). Terrible with concepts and theory... anything that skips a fact (gap) and she gets lost instantly.
Oof. I am demon Si and honestly I do what she explains but it causes great anxiety because I suck at it so I'm more likely to fail. Also my Ne saviour has no patience so I speed shit up and mess it all up. Sometimes I try really hard at Si-ing shit and it never works out anyway.
Si works really well when the goal is good and when you have the appropriate talent for that goal and when the social/material/spiritual context supports that goal. So you need good N first to make sure that the Si actions will work out. In the example of embroidery, it's a small, safe, reliable project, so you can't go wrong. Also, Si people probably gravitate to small, safe, reliable projects. But even then, Si can be screwed by bigger forces, e.g. people who lose all their retirement savings when a supposedly rock solid bank collapses. They think, "But I did everything right!"
Hearing this from an (I'm assuming) Se/Ni perspective really solidifies for me that I'm Si/Ne lmao, but likely not Si dom because I'm not good at doing this consistently. Like I played piano off and on growing up, but the minute I got a piano teacher who made it homework to practice I wasn't interested in practicing at all. I play more now than I did with a teacher. But when I actually do Si it comes quite naturally to me. Not sure then if it's a savior or a demon for me. I'm that crafter that people in my family look at and are like, how?! A few years ago I watched a youtube video or read a step-by-step guide online, I practiced and I mastered the thing, then I moved on an practiced and mastered the next thing, etc. until I could knit you this hat. But I'll go months without knitting anything. I relate to the willowy, symmetrical, aiming for perfection thing in arts and crafts as well. I just lack the work ethic aspect, haha.
I'm a professional pianist and an ENFJ. So I don't feel Si is the only function involved in being diligent. Either that or I somehow really developed my Si over time. I think you probably didn't feel that practicing was worth it for you personally at that moment; as opposed to my long-range view of the 'big picture'. I have to say that getting into the nitty-gritty details isn't my favorite thing to do, but I respect that kind of 'Si' focus is necessary for me to develop (Ni perspective again ;) ). And so I keep making myself do the things I'm not great at. Now it sounds like I'm tooting my own horn. But I know there's plenty of things for me to improve in; both within playing and life in general. Sometimes it feels like it all takes super long. But hoping I get where I want to be is a big motivator.
You can also see how feminine "Se" is distinct from "Si" at the end when Shan talks about bleach, you can see its more about sensations; smell, colour, and many others, and it may not be for keeps/recall, but "Si" on the other hand is.
well its kinda what the girl in the video said but in the opposite way, she is aware of the so called big picture of interconnections and final goal but thats not her priority, she first will go through all the small tasks and steps while a Ne dom would first go to that other place. There's where the whole thing that your dom function needs you inf one comes from
Brilliant! Another gamification analogy... I would describe Si along the lines of 'if I can pass this level (complete this task/step) then I can unlock the next level (next step in the process)'. ... so is S or N higher for me!??
"Si is looking at the whole quest from above and seeing that if you want to do this you need to do that, and if you want to do this you need to do that etc" this seems more Ni than Si than me. Or Si but from a Ni users perspective. Si - how is the data organised, Ni - which pattern is best for me. She is commentating not just on the data but how it fits into her Ni pattern.It's not Ne because it's not gathering, it's organising.
You're referencing the right concepts but I don't think you're applying those concepts correctly. "If this, then I do this, if that, then I do that" is Ne-Si. That is describing fulfilling many different branches, options, or paths (Ne), each with its own, specific piece of data (Si), which has been collected and organized previously. Specific processes to achieve each possibility. The alternative would be "No matter what, everything can be used to get me this" is Se-Ni. That is describing using anything, all kinds of fresh and non-specific information (Se) and applying it to achieve a singular goal (Ni). One possibility, no process, just do it. Si-Ne. Together on their axis, they see many possibilities and patterns and rely on (sometimes a singular piece of) stored information or detail which was collected previously.. to guess or anticipate how these many possibilities or patterns are going to go down. Si-Ne users will be aware of and sometimes dread the many different outcomes, and may even hesitate to act because they might need more information if they've never done it before or are unsure of themselves. They approach a task first by relying on how they've approached similar tasks before and will tend to try to do their best to apply known information before eventually giving up and seeking help (new information). For this reason, Si-Ne users tend to rarely ever read instruction manuals, that is, until all else has failed. That quote from the video, "Si is looking at the whole quest from above and seeing that if you want to do this you need to do that, and if you want to do this you need to do that etc," is referencing the stored, organized information in the mind (Si) to anticipate the outcomes to different scenarios (Ne). This is why Si users tend to always say they're just "winging it," especially with a task similar to what they've done before. They go into things trusting their previous experiences and just go with anticipation of it flowing like before. Se-Ni. Together on their axis, they see a singular possibility or pattern and will rely on all kinds of new data to "will" their way to that singular outcome. They're usually much more confident because they're already hungry to collect all kinds of new information to ensure that that one outcome happens. Because of this, their processes change all of the time, they just don't (internally) store up any of their past experiences and can't reference them. Sometimes they will be surprised by things they shouldn't be surprised about. They tend to forget mistakes they've made previously. This is why you see so many Se-Ni users get excited about systems of organization and new structures, so much so that they make RU-vid channels and coach others. It's because they need to physically have these external systems in place to function more effectively. Se-Ni users are crazy about that kind of stuff. They very readily jump into instruction manuals to get new information because they view each new thing as, like, actually a new thing. They inherently think it's silly to apply a known process (which was used for something else) to the new thing, because, well, it's a new thing, it's different! Hope that helps!
Ne dominants need to recognize and embrace this aspect of themselves. My (ENTP) life is so much better now that I am not afraid of the fact that building that intricate little bit for the things that matter grounds the possibilities so that I am not spinning my wheels with things that are just a waste of time.
With Ne I'd rather learn color theory more broadly in terms of relativity, dissonance / tension, resolution, etc and think about the various ways I could utilize these concepts than be taught specific color combos. I will straight up forget
Ni : you want a space to live out your days in peace and tranquility. Greenery or shrubbery? Si : you want a garden to spend time in the sun with your kids. Does this tree need to go there? Do you prefer the sycamore or would a box hedge suit better
For Si, each time you do a thing a certain way, it becomes more and more second nature, instinctual. Karate Kid, wax on wax off. It becomes so second nature, your mind earns the freedom to wander. I used to bullseye womprats in my T-16 back home.
6:27 I'm taking a sharpie to that bottle so I don't like grab it to water the plants or something. Actually in my household we wouldn't have a bottle for bleach and water combo. 🤔I'm not even sure if we have any bleach.
