Sickening use of CCTV I am told about 

Follow-up: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-EIKOingA5Zo.html

There is surely something of a conflict here if recording images and sounds in public places is swept up into this legislation. I have a dashcam installed in my car, and as far as I'm aware, that is a perfectly legal thing to do and also doesn't seem to require any form of justification as to the reason why I have it. Also, as far as I'm aware, it is also legal to take photos or make videos of public places, including anybody who happens to be passing by, without requiring any justification. These are places where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. So if I take a photo or video in a public place, and happen to put it on a social media channel, and somebody loses their job, or maybe their marriage, because they weren't meant to be there, then according to you they might have a case against me? I will state that is surely absolute codswallop if it is in a public place. That is surely not the same thing as intrusive recording of where people do have a reasonable justification of privacy.

My neighbour has at least four cameras on his home. Two cover my entire front garden, path and front door and one at the back of the property is pointed directly into my garage window and covers the back gate and side entrance of my property. The one at the back of the property, which is also about 10 foot from my kitchen door has audio functionality. My neighbour and his wife dislike me after I politely asked them if they would lower the volume of their music in the back garden. The level of hatred and revenge that has been directed at me since then makes me assume they are listening to my private conversations which have included discussing their behaviour with trusted people. I hate security cameras, I feel all of my privacy has been violated.

My security cameras are movement activated and have been set to exclude, as far as reasonably possible, triggering on movements outside the boundaries of my property. Any captured videos are uploaded to a cloud store and auto delete after 30 days. No audio is captured except the camera covering the immediate porch area so someone would have had to approach the front door to be recorded. All in all, I feel comfortable defending this as reasonable and proportionate to deter and detect criminality

There's no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public place.

I was the CCTV controller for our local village hall for many years. We operated to a strict control policy per the ico. The police regularly contacted me for access to our recordings (the police were approved for access under our policy). The police would also knock on doors of houses with cameras when trying to obtain crime information and they seemed to consider various household CCTV a great asset in combatting crime. I'm retired from the hall but my own premises have detailed coverage within my property boundaries

Marvelous. Meanwhile, just about EVERYWHERE you go in town/car parks/pubs/shops etc, you're being recorded with impunity.

My wife is a goldsmith and we are required by her insurance to have CCTV coverage of all entrances and exits. Our neighbour across the street was very suspicious of this and complained that we may be looking inside his house - which was absolutely not the case. This year while he was on holiday his house was broken into by his rear door which is in sight of our camera; now he is a convert as the police could use our CCTV to identify the criminals

What if you’re capturing antisocial behaviour from a harassing neighbour for evidence?

I have awful abusive neighbours that vandalise my vehicles & use my garden as their rubbish tip & give themselves full access to my garden whenever they like, so I have security cameras up now & I don't care what they say or do as I will record anything that supports my complaints about them over the years! I also have a CCTV licence but found your video interesting. Thank you.

As an advocate for privacy and freedom, I hate the CCTV surveillance state we live in where every house in the street has 3/5 cameras, tracking your every movement and listening to your private conversations.

How about the fact that none of us can walk around any town without being constantly captured on CCTV ?

Around 2010 a number of school kids were using the close I stay in, to smoke, and leave there rubbish behind. Our close was getting vandalised with graffiti, and with me staying on the ground floor, I could see all that was going on So one day I put up a cctv camera, but made sure it could be seen, as we wanted to catch the school kids. On one occasion there was around 20 kids in the close, and after they left, they left all there rubbish A few weeks later, we decided to tell the school kids to get out, and we began to take photos. The school kids weren't happy about this, telling us, you cant take a photo of us. A number of parents made complaints about this, but as soon as they seen the footage of the videos which we recorded, they went quiet These parents now learned that some of there kids have taken up smoking

Even if you pay a subscription images from a ring camera are only stored for 30 days hence by the time anyone goes through a process the subject matter will no longer exist.

A friend of mine installed a CCTV camera because of problems with illegal drug use and selling in the neighbourhood. They did it to protect their property. The police simply didn’t want to help. Inadvertently they recorded a murder by stabbing. The police impounded the recordings and the recording device. The recording was used to help with a conviction. How does that work out if the accused objects to the use of CCTV? I can provide you with details if you are interested

The Ring devices only store for 30 days, and only capture if someone walks into the zones you set, or you live view. It does not record indefinitely like cctv.

I understand all that you have said in this video. As far as video and photo capture I have always understood that permission is not required in a place where a person would not have a reasonable expectation of privacy (a public park or a public street etc).

We should all make Subject Access Requests to our local Authorities for the images of us as we go about our daily business walking in town. What bigger abuse of 'Personal Data' is there than an organisation with probably 100's of cameras all recording our every move, being monitored by no one knows who, behind closed doors. If it's OK for the Council to have cameras intentionally capturing us, with high resolution, and probably facial recognition, across the town, why can't I have a camera monitoring the street outside my house to capture exactly the same images from my window?

Would love to know how this crosses over with people filming on their phones and publishing on RU-vid etc.

So The BBC can record me and the kids watching the London Marathon and broadcast it live, but I can't record the BBC film crew going past my house on my CCTV and post it online?

I wonder if this explains why, when my business was broken into and we got a clear image of the culprit’s face and the police recognized him, no further action was taken?

I have a Ring doorbell and have a yellow sticker to say they are being recorded if they come to my door. My neighbours also have doorbells, but not Ring ones. Ring has zones and I have set them up to not record outside my boundary.

Only in the UK can you try capture an image of someone burgling your home but you become the criminal 🤣

"It certainly might"... Got to love lawyerspeak 😄

I've got a slightly serious question . My property is on the corner of a side street and a lane . The far end , from that corner , of the property , also on the lane , is the corner of my garage . In the 8 years we have lived here that garage corner has been damaged many times by refuse trucks and also flat bed hgv's ( scaffolding and building supply trucks mainly ) . There are two utility polls just before you get to the garage corner when coming from the direction of the side street . We have just renovated the garage , including a rather expensive rubber skin on the roof . The utility poles occlude points of view from the house where we might easily mount a camera to monitor that corner of the garage . Likewise , there is no obvious place on the garage to mount a camera . It is likely a matter of time before a high sided metal vehicle ( refuse truck , e.g. ) damages the new roof at the corner of the garage ( the lane at that point is a pinch point and with a camber angled so that the sides of such vehicles lean towards the corner of the garage roof ) . Council drivers are driving as well as can be expected , bless them , but mistakes occur eventually when accidents are set up to happen , regardless of the competence and attention of a driver ( in fact they have told us they would prefer not to have to drive down the lane for this reason ) . I can't mount a camera on the new roof as that would void the warranty for the roof . Can't mount one on the side of the garage with a vantage of the corner as the poles are in the way . Can I mount a camera ( e.g.a doorbell cam ) on to the utility pole without informing the relevant utility company ? If I didn't , would the footage still be relevant in a claim against for example , the council or registered owner of the vehicle ? For clarity , the camera must needs point down the ( public ) lane to capture any such incident . Would appreciate any comments . Ta

Most dvr's have an option to block out certain areas that each camera picks up. So if the camera picks up an area beyond my property there is the option to have a blacked out square that can be size adjusted to blank out that sensitive area. On the recording and remote live feed it simply shows a black square in these sensitive areas. My camera points out towards the road to keep an eye on my van but also picks up neighbours front of house. Where the windows and doors are I have covered these areas to afford them privacy. I have also spoken with my neighbours about it and shown them on my phone what is being picked up. They were all in favour of the cameras as it improves security and when shown that those sensitive areas were covered had no objections. I think if you are open about it with your neighbours and show them what is being captured then I don't see any reason you should experience any problems.

I don't believe that any recording device is illegal in England because if that were the case then every cctv camera and dash cam in the country is also illegal. We installed a cctv camera about 5 years ago on the advice of the police after having problems with a neighbour. A few months back we had a visit from plod because said neighbour had complained about the camera. My response was "so your dash cam is also illegal then". They left.

What you are applying is that it’s perfectly ok for the Authorities to put cameras on a public street and film law abiding citizens. But ordinary householders can’t film anyone passing their house.

One of your best practical advice about lawfull use videos on cctv law from every point. nice one

Hi B B B, yet again you provide us with a lot of sensible advice and information, one thing I am still unsure of is while footage of the activities in the public domaine filmed and recorded from private premises will not conform to the domestic exemptions for GDPR how is this different from personal photography film and recording carried out in the public domaine for personal and private use where again GDPR does not apply, is there some legal distinction related to the position of the camera?. Cheers, Richard.

Very good information ,for what can be a grey or misunderstood area . I work for local government and local police supplying cctv for public saftey and law enforcement..We have to consult "legal" before installation of new equiptment.

I film people every day with my dashcam but I'm not allowed to film beyond the boundary of my home when my car is on the street? My car can film but I can't film my car. 🙄 Madness

I have Ring and police wanted me to see if I’d recorded disturbance at neighbours house 🏠

So what happens to those individuals who got sacked for sneaking off to watch snooker at The Crucible and their boss saw them on telly? Sue the BBC? 😂

Very odd. The police ask house owners for any cctv footage if there has been any incident in your area ?

Hi BBB, what about the belief that you can have no expectation of privacy whilst in a public space ? I am asking as I have my CCTV cameras pointing up and down our sidewalks and street in an attempt at curtailing loitering, trespass, also petty theft of private property such as bustbins etc.

And yet plod rely on private cctv when they are forced to investigate a crime.

The data is encrypted and on my ring doorbell the neighbours property is blanked out. Audio is only recorded when triggered by the motion sensor. That's a darn sight more privacy than public cctv camers that are all over the place in the UK.

How is this different then to people that walk around in public filming, saying their auditing a building or area? Normally involving a security or police officer and put it out on Facebook etc.

It's the big brother world that we live in sadly. Amazing how sensitive parents are about their children appearing on cctv or a photograph, but are then perfectly happy to distribute the same on social media for all and sundry to see!

So taking pictures in public is perfectly legal but taking pictures of people from private is not , what an ass the law is

Ironical when the police often need footage from a cctv camera to solve many crimes, yet we're getting prosecuted for it also? Sometimes the law really is an ass.

I wouldn't be too bothered about this. I reported a location to the Information Commissioner's Office regarding a CCTV system (several cameras) that was being used to record a public footpath adjacent to a farm. There was absolutely no reason for this to be done; rural Scotland - nil crime in the area. The ICO were not interested.

Most CCTV DVRs wrap around every 14 - 21 days in which case if you need to access any particular footage you have to download it within that time scale otherwise it gets overwritten. Not something you would normally have to concern yourself with.

As usual thanks for your take on a tricky legal subject. However, you have raised a question in my mind which I will be very grateful if you will clear up. I have watched many 'auditors' recently all of whom argue that photography in public by members of the public in pursuit of their 'hobby' is not covered by data protection law and that no member of the public, when in public, has a right to privacy. If this is the case, then how is a CCTV camera different when it is in essence doing the same thing as an auditor's video camera. I am sure that there is a perfectly simple reason for this. Many thanks.

It's hard to understand where the line of privacy is versus being in a public place. Doesn't that make councils live cam footage of a high street or traffic cameras an invasion of privacy to some degree? If you do have a troublesome neighbour who is coming on to your property and damaging or stealing your assets. Would your own camera footage, be rejected as evidence in legal proceedings? Despite setting your camera up correctly to capture precise areas within your property boundary and have no sound recorded.

Our house opens directly onto the pavement, i.e. no front yard. There have been cases of graffiti on other similar houses on our street, as well as vandalism and other crimes. So, we have the motion record setting turned on on the Ring doorbell so that if someone graffities our house, or otherwise vandalises it, we will capture them on video. I assume that this is a legitimate reason to be recording the street immediately outside our front door, and I didn't see anything in this video that suggests otherwise. What I took away from this video is that I must not use any video recordings to harass or otherwise make trouble for neighbours or passers by. However, if I use the recordings only to provide evidence in the case of a crime, then I am making the recordings legitimately. Is that right? I should note we live in an inner city area, with no children living on the street or nearby, so I don't have to worry about that complication. Also directly opposite is an office, not a home, and they are also recording CCTV of our property, 24/7, so they're not going to object to our recording... unless they are stunningly hypocritical about it!

Very interesting. A follow-on for you: how does this apply to car dashcams which may be always on? Let's say you're parking your car in a regular area.

I have Amazon blink cameras with cloud storage, we have one above the cat flap to see when the cats are in/out, one near the front door mostly to monitor parcel deliveries and one on the garden which captured an intruder who stole a bike from a neighbours garden which we uploaded to the police website.

Brilliant info. Shame when these issues occur the police do nothing to the persons wronged.

What is the position on this BBB as is 100% true in this case. A police officer knocks on my door as has seen I have a camera & would like the footage as a crime happened just round the corner? I agreed but could that come back to haunt me from the defendant not including a brick through the window. Please reply for a change.

I’m in a neighbourhood watch scheme and we are constantly asked by the police if we have any cctv or door camera for information about car crime or burglary in the neighbourhood so how on earth does this work ( your dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t ) what do you think of this about what our police are asking .?

We had someone breaking into a property with an Angle grinder, Motion sensing didn't capture it but the excessive audio alert did. Prevented them from driving off with our trailer as we called our neighbours and they set the on site Sirens off. Bit of a shame, police were only 2 minutes behind them for a change (the response times have been improving).

If beyond your boundaries is public property what happened to reasonable expectation of privacy?

What a world we live in, where trying to protect yourself from crime can land you in more trouble than actually comitting a crime.

There's no privacy in public. Audio of next door captured - the proportionality comes down to where the frig else am I going to put the doorbell if not by the door.

Would be Interesting to know how it stands for narrowboat owners live streaming the canal path and public areas surrounding their boat, especially ones that "constant cruise" and have to move every 14 days - Ive seen a few around, that also record sound, and seen a lot posting recorded video for a RU-vid post...would this be any different with the boat being residential but in a public place? - thanks

It is not clear why a domestic user may be in breach of the data protection act if they video their premises. Is there a specific law relating to this? Thanks.

I would really appreciate it if you could tell me the difference between an Auditor (after the fashion you have dealt with in a previous video) filming police stations, councils, security firms and the like all around the U.K., posting thousands of hours of content online for potentially millions of people to view - and a private citizen recording a few feet outside their home in the interest of crime prevention? Auditing channels also have audio of conversations with the police, councils etc and members of the general public, as well as passers by - I’m just interested to know the difference, if there is one. Many thanks

I can understand the reasoning behind not recording someone walking past you house, but I thought it was ok to whip out your mobile phone and record in a public place. Is there a difference between hand-held and fixed devices or is it illegal to record in public spaces?

I adjusted my CCTV so as not to overlook my neighbours rear garden, she (in her 80s) had a fall and lay there for 8 hours because I could no longer keep an innocent eye on her.

I got a cheap security camera on my back yard which blocks the neighbours' garden, but I also have one pointing at the street, because several neighbours' cars get bumped and even broken into and want the street to be safer. It only records movement and is on a second storey so faces are hard to identify, but one can read a number plate. After 30 days it removes recordings. A neighbour complained this invades their privacy and requested all recording of himself. As the system does not identify people, I offered to share a clip if he gives me a date and time, if there is anything recorded. He insisted he wants everything with him in it or take the camera down, and I ignored the request as unreasonable. His house is not in the frame. Does he have a reasonable case?

This business of recording video / audio outside the boundaries of your property remindes me of another question that you might be able to cover, security lighting: what's the legality of people having outside security lighting, movement detection activated or otherwise, when the light shines directly into neighbouring properties? Very high powered security lights are very common and it doesn't seem to be a requirement to 'hood' them in such a way as to only light your own property... Do the neighbouring properties have any legal position to ask for these to /not/ be directed onto their properties?

Hello I love your channel and it gives very clear guidance so I have a question and it is this , I have a ring doorbell but we don’t record anything with it we just use it for parcels and door related things but we can see the hole street so are we braking any dater protection rules etc as I’m thinking of removing the device as it’s becoming a bit of a headache many thanks in advance.

Also, I've got a webcam set up on my window so I can see who is going up and down my street. I saw a guy trying car doors, called the police and they came out (they grabbed the wrong guy up the street 😂) . He asked how I knew and I explained about my camera setup and asked if he wanted to see it and he said no, it was fine.

How do I stand recording a neighbour's entrance to the side of my property over which I have right of way and out to the road. My neighbour doesn't live there, it is an unused agricultural building. This entrance poses a clear security threat to both my neighbour's and my property, in fact I do have footage of people coming in and stealing things. The camera only records when it detects movement around the gate.

Question: How does this mesh with the concept of “auditing”? Seems that uploading a video to RU-vid of random people (not all of whom might be public officials) could have the same effect as recording random people just passing by your house. I’ve also seen quite a number of similar videos uploaded to RU-vid showing TV license goon visits too (which could be argued the same way as freedom auditors)

It is well known that it is perfectly legal to film in a public place without any requirement for consent, so doesn't that contradict the CCTV/GDPR issue where the camera is capturing your property and , say, the public footpath and road?

@BlackBeltBarrister do Dashcams fall under the same rules?

It's one of them where the government will enforce this law then knock on your door for the footage when there's a crime.

Some months ago we had a knock on our front door, it was a police officer asking if we had a cctv system. Apparently next door had had a break in and they were hoping we may have some footage that may help identify who they were. We did not have a cctv system.

Anyone who asks about my cameras including the police, I tell them it doesn't work... done. This seems like a load of bollocks anyway, what about ordinary cameras where people are in the background when you take a picture, is that also a violation of some random law? What about live TV news cameras on the street? can you take them to court if you are captured?

Black Belt Barista, I find some kind of cognitive dissonence when I think that you're not allowed to record the people walking in the street with a Ring door camera, and post the video online, because of data protection laws - but you can walk down the street with your camera recording, and then post that video on RU-vid or fakebook live or whichever site. What the hell....does that mean that one could pursue legal proceedings if one asked someone filming, to stop recording them under the data protection laws? Cheers 👍

Necessary, justifiable, proportionate. Reasonable duration for storage. Take care with audio. Use for appropriate purpose only. Keep long term only if for clear reason

The part about pointing it at next doors garden i get, the part I dont't understand is the part about the public walking past. How would me recording/Live streaming peolpe walking past in public view be any different to me Live straming/Recording on my phone out and about in public?

Very enlightening thanks.

Things are getting stupid in the UK with drone law and people whinging about CCTV. My mate had the same problem with his neighbours, until one of them got burgled, then they could not wait to get the footage, which unfortunately he did not have.

Having examined the legislation and the court judgment, I would say it is very important to stress that Art 6 of the GDPR is the starting point. That is, the lawfulness of the surveillance in the first place. Without being able to establish, by clear and credible evidence, (and this means in reality, not merely picking one of the options and simply saying it is so) that it is lawful to start with, questions as to reasonableness and proportionality and so on are completely irrelevant. Many people seem to believe that they can bypass that initial hurdle and by backwards logic assert that because the way they use their system is reasonable and proportionate, it is therefore legal. A great big big NO. It is quite possible (although unlikely) that surveillance of neighbours property could be judged as complying with all the reasonableness and proportionality and safety requirements of data capture and processing. But it if it is not lawful under Art 6 to start with, it is not lawful!

Hi, so in regards to the CCTV recording, what would be the case if you just replied that the cameras do not record the footage? Do they have to take your word for it?

Yet you could pick your CCTV camera up, set it to record, and walk around your nearest public shopping centre filming anybody and everybody. It feels like not only are the police not interested in crime prevention and conviction - but they actively go out of their way to make it difficult for the public to look after themselves. Although saying that, I would not be too chuffed if someone had a camera pointed directly into my back garden 24/7.

I am in an interesting situation. The "front door" of my house is actually in the shared pathway between my house and the neighbour's house. (Their front door is in the more traditional position, at the front of their house, facing on to the street). They also use the shared pathway frequently as access to their property. Not only do they use it but often visitors do, too. If I were to use a door camera, I would capture every person who visits next door using the path. I've no idea how I'd pick the bones out of GDPR.

Years ago our neighbour had a visit from the old bill telling him he had to remove the cameras as they were filming the road and your not allowed to do that. Reason being was children as he could have been recording them and that was a big no no, but guess it's ok now...

I like the use of language "It absolutely certainly MIGHT". that made me chuckle. I'm intrigued - if someone walks past your CCTV and then starts a Subject Access Request, how could you know that you have captured them?

Surely if your neighbour walks past your house, and that area falls within a public space, it's no different than a street photographer taking photos in a public place? It's perfectly legal to capture photos and video in public, consent is not generally required and they do not have to disclose this data under GDPR unless operating as a business.

My solutions are thus; 1, Don't tell the neighbours what sort of camera you've got 2, if anyone asks the footage gets wiped after a few days. Simples👌

What is the difference between recording video, say as an auditor on the street outside your property and say mounting a camera on a tree in your garden recording exactly the same scene?

How does capturing the image of passersby relate to the fact that there is no expectation of privacy when you are in public? Does this mean that any images I have taken in public in a city street that very obviously contain images of people fall into this category, as I store them digitally on my PC? I can't see the difference between CCTV images and still images (those I take?)

I installed cctv a few years ago after my car was vandalised. The camera monitors our front garden and the immediate street area in front of the house where I park my car. As you say this might be tricky to justify, but the only time the police have been in touch with me was when the local shop just up the road from me was robbed at knifepoint. I was asked if I could review the footage at around the time of the incident and yes I did have a clear image of the person running past. The police asked me if it was ok if they had a copy and I was happy to comply. What they said was that, in an incident like this, they will ask people in the area to review their footage because this will give them a very good idea of which direction the person they are looking for was heading. I never heard anything further about this so I have no idea about any outcome

Are shops that use facial recognition technology in breach of data protection law?

If i sit on my fence and overhear my neighbours it is perfectly legal? If i look out of my window and see someone in the street it is perfectly legal? If i use that information gathered into my head to report a crime and go to court it is my wod against theirs and who has the better barrister. If that information was collected by a recording device, which proves the event, i can be told to delete the information as it would prove the crime. These data laws are supposed to protect us, but they protect the criminals. The "law" of unintended consequences caused by knee-jerk legislation (created by politicians so disconnected from reality - they tend to pass laws to protect themselves) at work. As a ex-copper comedian once quipped: CPS stands for Criminal Protection Service.

Only people who have something to hide worry about CCTV

Am I right in thinking there is no law forbidding the taking of photographs or video in a public place? In which case captured images outside the boundary curtelige would be no issue?

Please consider covering the Ellie Williams case, victim of grooming gangs locked up for talking about it publicly, first day of her trial started today.

How are these laws compatible, 1/ data protection, 2/ the right to privacy in a public place ie:- road/pathway. 3/ taking photos/video in a public space.

This raises an interesting conundrum. I've recently seen a number of You Tube videos where drone users are flying over both public and private property capturing video and yet claiming that they are not in default of data protection.

How come RU-vid is full of ‘auditors’ who assert their right to film wherever and whatever they want as it’s ‘in the public domain’, yet one’s not allowed to film and record visual events and sound around your home environment? Strange, eh?

How does this not contradict the rules you previously paid out saying you are allowed to record in a public place as there is no right to or expectation of privacy? I get not being able to record others on private land in some contexts or it could be stalking but everything you just outlined would make it impossible to record in public as well especially if you get a single frame with a private property somewhere in shot in the background

So if plod shows up asking if they can view my front door footage which cannot help but catch people on the street, as they are tracing someone, am I protected from gdpr legislation?

Just because a camera may be mounted on a house property does not mean it is a working one...it may be dummy deterrent..also...how does anyone know whether it is working or what field of view may be being recorded?Nobody in reality is going to spit the dummy out over a camera on the front of a semi detached on a street,unless they are up to no good...if it was pointing clearly towards windows and not street level then you may have to enquire but that alone could start neighbourly issues.

My neighbour constantly uses her camera on my door or bottom of drive. She also follows me up and down the drive going to bin or speaking to anyone on street.. Police have been called and said its harassment but they called and said its OK and so did Ico despite my finding it an invasion of privacy. It does have audio too. So no, they won't do anything