Siegel on Marner: ‘The entire season it felt like he was kind of done with it’ | OverDrive 

Yes, change was necessary after Montreal.

Two great moments in the last 56 years, '78 and '93. 31 years since Wendel and Gilmour gave us some great moments. Shameful...Press conference today = BS

Mitch will not get a dime more in Toronto on his next contract. He should take a cut to about 8 or 8.5. No other team is going to give him 10 million or more. Not a chance. Aho at 9 million is a great comparison and probably the better all round player.

Local boy Marner had it great in Toronto and he took it for granted. He didn’t realize that during the regular season, opponents are more occupied with padding their offensive stats than checking him into the boards. That was why he was points producer extraordinaire. Playoff hockey is a completely different animal where team play is paramount. Marner for some reason detested being bodychecked hard so he avoided the dirty areas. Management with its unlimited resources didn’t hire psychologists to get Mitch to play fearlessly.

I agree with Hayes, things should have changed after the Montreal series. When the money comes in, that's all that matters to the suits

Thank god for Hayes

Wrong O Dog. You tell Marner that he’s playing on the 4th line with Reaves as your center next year. 40 points in a contract year!

No way Shanahan survives in Montreal with 1 playoff series in 10 years.

O-Dog at the beginning talking about how other teams haven’t won either, naming Dallas and Carolina being good for 5 years, etc. Here’s the problem with that take that O doesn’t understand: Those teams go on runs. They make it to Conference and Cup finals. That’s how these teams measure their success, how deep they go. Sure, losing in the first round and losing in the Cup finals is still losing, but it’s a yardstick, the best indicator of how close a team is.

Wasn't it pretty obvious after the Montreal playoff series?

It’s 100% the contract with Marner. He could have been a hometown hero, but he chose the other path.

Marner for Saros and a first round

To answer jonas' original question. Honestly I think what was different is auston and Willy raised their game. And adapted there game to a new level. It became painfully obvious mitch is incapable of that. Therefore too much money is tied up in that player. Time for a change

Hayes was bang on. He knows what’s up.

Cowan, Minten, Webber & Hildeby should have a REAL shot at making the Leafs next season.

Hayzie B came with the heat right from the start ...on fire 🔥🔥🔥

The fans are done with Marner. He will be remembered as the Invisible Leaf.

It's plain simple. MLSE will not take any risks to their overall revenue.

I'd be pretty pissed if they traded Rielly and kept Mitch. You don't have to love everything about Morgan Rielly to realize that he wasn't even close to the top 5 reasons they lost against Boston or any playoff series. Mitch is at the top here. A non-factor in so many series, not to mention the pouting and whining in Game 4 against Boston or when he flipped the puck over the glass against Montreal and cried. This is not the kind of leadership we want on this team. I'm all for trying to swing for another P1 defensemen at any cost, but that doesn't mean Rielly has to leave. I think the team is worse with Rielly gone. You get that P1 defensemen for Mitch.

O'Neil dude? Are you high? How could you compare the Leafs to Carolina or Dallas? How many playoff rounds have the Leafs won since Shanahan got there compared to Carolina or Dallas? Which other team has been so consistently good in the regular season without being able to win more than FOUR playoff games in one year more than ONCE

Yes you can Hayes, your the Captain of Leafs Nation

The fact is this team finally learnt how to play playoff style hockey the last 3 games of series!! First time ever! Why isn't this talked about?? Can you imagine if Matthews and Nylander and Woll were 100% healthy and available to play. Might have been very different.

Leafs should start a rehabilitation project for Marner with priorities: 1) Mitch stays to play his heart out for Leaf Fans & not just to be treated like a God in Toronto 2) Mitch back checks all the way back to his net unless Leafs get puck possession 3) Reaves teaches Matthews, Marner and Nylander just how to stand up for themselves 4) Coaches mentor Marner to adjust for playoff officiating like Marchand does😀 5) In playoffs - Matthews doesn’t play centre for Marner

Its the never ending story with Toronto. Jeff O'Neil defends Shanahan being granted his 10th year of his 5 year process to win the cup. He states we're going to need to change players on the ice, while ignoring Shanahan agreed to let the multiple GMs who have come in to sign players worth 45 million in contracts per year to also have no move clauses in their contracts. Toronto fans blame Marner for all the Leafs problem, ignoring that year after year Matthews scores obscene amounts of goals in the regular season only to get single digits of goals in the playoffs, we're talking you can count them on one hand. This team is going to run it back, whether or not they want to and they're going to spend what little money they have after paying our core 4 on more forwards as opposed to lowering our defensive average age to sub 45 or the thing we really need, that being a goaltender. Never forget, we signed Murray to 1 million less than Campbell at the height of Campbell's career for less than 30 games played.

30:54 - THIS NEEDS to be talked about more. We almost unanimously give players props for taking team friendly discounts, but but nobody talks nearly as much about these types of situations, were players demand the full bag, and then don't put up... PLD is going through this right now, but nobody talks about how much less heat he'd have if he took a team-friendly contract, instead of being paid for 8 years, ON THE ASSUMPTION he'd continue trending upwards... Being paid for production he hasn't actually once reached in his career yet... Nvm production going down...

If they can move marner, the other 'stars' become alot less complacent. The organization has to take back the power.

I’m new here, it was my first year as a fan of the leafs, so I have no idea what happened years before, but got the just from listening to everyone talk. I find one thing curious in that press conference. It’s not the “everything is on the table” line, it’s the one before it. Where Shanny says “In the past, I believed there was a time where you talk about patience…. However when you see patterns persist and the results don’t change, you have to adjust the way you look at things” He was the guy who always maintained that the core 4 concept would reign supreme. He’d curb stomp anyone who questioned that. This is his admission to what we’ve all been saying, that what we are doing isn’t working, we can’t wait any longer and hope for it to get better. That wording and the defeated way he is saying it makes me think this is the closest we will get to Shanny saying “I was wrong, it’s not working”. I feel like this might have some hope that change is coming. I also think that Pelley being there isn’t a random thing either. Pelley is showing the fan base early on that he doesn’t intend to be as hands off as prior management was with the leafs. He’s showing that he’s keenly interested and willing to be involved with the team. Indirectly, he’s telling us that, while not fired, shanahan doesn’t have the free rein that he has had previously. As a new fan, I fully believe that if Shanahan tries to step in a torpedo a market trade like he did with Dubas, Pelley will be more than happy to intervene. So as I said, I’m new here and haven’t fully embraced the paranoia and scepticism of the leafs nation, but the statement above, the atmosphere of the meeting, and the CEO making an early impromptu appearance tells me something serious may happen this time, not just more of the same

Dont think the situation is that bad for the leafs. Mitch would be smart to conduct free agency rn, get the extra year, and hit reset. Mitch with 9 years locked up is a pretty great asset. Playing out the year with injury risk and the fan base being made doesn't seem optimal.

"the Leafs win press conferences" Noodles with a painfully accurate insight there

Why don’t they get Mike Keenan or Gerard Gallant?

I agree with Hayes,,i have to see it to believe it,, Toronto not going trade no one,,

We went through the lost years with Ballard . If the crowds were to quit they would have done it then . They will be fighting over tickets come the season opener . Regardless who is on the ice .

You'll have an easier chance moving Tavares. He's getting 99% of his money up front as a signing bonus. He'll only make a pittance staying here the whole year. He could actually go to a team who might advance in the playoffs next season versus staying on a team that's floundering. And that way he doesn't have to go through the embarrassment of being stripped of his captaincy.

How does Shanahan keep his job? For the last 3-4 years everyone was saying break up the core 4…it doesn’t work! Shanahan was way too stubborn to the point where he didn’t take advantage of being able to move Marner..tied his own hands and now will say their hands are tied!!

The Buds are hard pressed to move players with NMC’s,but that isn’t impossible to overcome.A player will not want to stay if he isn’t wanted.But I have to agree with Hayes,until the Buds make moves to the core 4,I’ll believe it when I see it.

Leafs brass are always adept at talking the talk. Let’s see if they’re finally ready to walk the walk. I’m with Hayes - I’ll believe it when I see it.

It could be trade deadline when Marner or JT move to another team by trade. Shanna mentioned this.

Find another station for tennis and designate one of your five stations for Overdrive only.

Darren Ferris was so bad for Mitch’s PR. Sour indeed. “Took a discount on entry level contract so won’t on RFA deal”. WTF?!

Hayes is the best

Hayes 100% right

Tavares has only a year left on his deal. The bulk of it will be paid out on July 1st in the form of a signing bonus. Would it be so costly in terms of cap savings to buy him out? True, there's no trade to be had if that route is adopted, but the potential cap savings might make it worthwhile.

You can't build to win a Stanley Cup. You can only build to be competitive. There are 32 teams all doing the same thing. Freaking out when you get bounced by a good team and loosing your poise will only make it worse. You just have to make sure that you have a competitive team more often then not. That you keep getting into the playoffs, and that if its the same sort of hurdle, you have a coach, manager that can make the subtle changes that need to be made to increase your chances and decrease your opponents chances. Trading productive players for the sake of trading them and sending a message is a very good way to undo all that you have gained to this point. You just need to have appearances, but even in math where two coins are 50% and 50% that in itself does not mean that you will win every 2nd game. You can very easily lose 3 in a row or win 3 in a row. I have to agree the pressure is many times the order of magnitude of other winning clubs if you are in Toronto. Right now the Ryan O'Neil's see the negetive aspect of this, but the group that wins a cup for this franchise will be monopolizing hockey television for a decade if not two. Those names will be naturally praised an worshiped like gods, just due to how much hockey television is made to appease the greatest hockey market. As for the coaching, I more than happy to make a coaching change for the leaf's, not everyone understood the moves, even the players were perplexed themselves, and the line shuffling during Anthony Matthews 70 chase looked like it did more to hurt the team than it did to improve it especially considering the confidence of the top 5 going into the playoffs. That is on the coach. This is the one thing the coach is supposed to know, after 9 years. Of any pundits, he should have the highest foresight of how his moves will pan out much more so than anyone else since he is the one calling the shots and adjustments watching this team daily, yet it often looked like even the coach had no clue. I like him as an organizer, and a person, and I also think he will one day become the coach everyone wished we had today. That said we can improve with coaching no doubt about it, this will not be easy, we can't screw up, we really need to make a very smart coaching selection.

Thx guys

I don't know if Marner is done with Toronto, but I know for sure, that Toronto is done with Marner! Overpaid, arrogant, entitled underachiever.

Hope was there in beginning. 2019 kadri suspension,2020 muzz hurt, 2021 JT hurt, 2022 hot goalie but should have won, 2023 hot goalie no scoring, 2024 injuries no scoring no more excuses.

You can spin things how ever you want, but they're correct, virtually everything is on the table. Treliving is not Dubas, so after observing things for a year, he is likely moving in a different direction vis-à-vis roster construction. He is handcuffed this off-season by no moves, but 2 of the 5 no moves are expiring one year from now. CapFriendly has the projected cap space in 2025 as 51M+. That's when there will be room to make significant changes. This year, assuming he re-ups some of his RFA's at reasonable numbers & one or two prospects (e.g. Cowan, Minten) make the team, he'll have about 11M left to re-sign Domi, find a top 4 RD & a reliable goalie to back up Woll. Good luck, he'll need it.

It's quite clear the Leafs are NOT going to resign Marner after this year--Looking at it that way, is it better to keep Marner and (likely) not have Playoff success or move on from in. Yes Marner has a NMC, but it's also a contract year for him. IF he believes he is not going to get his "cookies" this year in TO, he behooves him to move on as he wont be here next year anyway. From the Leafs perspective it almost doesn't matter what you get back--the most valuable thing is the CAP space accrued. Worrying about "losing" the trade is old school thinking--take the savings and replace Marner accordingly..pref someone on D.

Im not excusing him but he hurt his ankle late in the season. This had to explain some of Marner's playoffs. Skating on a healing ankle.

They need to run a public marketing campaign to hear what the public has to say. The slogan can be, “If Good isn’t Good Enough, then what will be Good Enough?” They need to promote this campaign all over the city. TTC, Yonge and Dundas Square, Malls, etc Put the people’s opinion to work and listen to what we the fans suggest.

🚨 BREAKING NEWS 🚨 Marner and Tavares open to negotiations for dropping their NMC.

I think a combination of some new players and re-signing some of our new guys like Domi, Bertuzzi, Edmundson, Lyubushkin, and Dewar. Maybe even Robertson.

The amount of people that think Marner would even think about resigning with the leafs is astounding. Marner has all the cards. The conversation they are having right now is useless.

The Mike Singletary speech applies to Marner

Poor Princess Marner. I swear a few years ago this guy bulked up and seemed confident. Man needs to hit the fk gym

I think the Leafs need to adapt the Vegas mindset. Drop player loyalty, make the hard changes necessary to win a Stanley Cup. Vegas made a lot of unpopular changes to their roster a few years ago, and it paid off for them.

28:46 “ok Mitch, you wanna stay on this team, float threw another playoff series and head to free agency? Cool, well, your now last on the list of players to get treatment after the game, even the reserves go before you. You like having your own room on the road? Looks like you’re now bunking with the 3rd string goalie on the road for the foreseeable future. Anything else you wanna say?” -Shanny

Every team in the NHL is committed to making money, period.

Why don’t we figure out who built this team and why it was built that way. And what you’re going to do about that.

Marner, Reilly + to Nsh for Josi and Saros (Yes they have NMCs but it's worth a shot).

Great points by odog

Fired up Hayes 🇨🇦😁

Read between the lines guys, this core 4/5 thing aint coming back.

Who you going to get that is going to improve the team? If you don't know, maybe there isn't anyone. And they've been through enough player changes. You say you don't know how it is going to happen. Toronto had a good playoff team when Ballard was manager and Roger Nielson as coach.

There are guys who are still irritated about how the Marner negotiations went the last time. Ferris took Dubas to the shed. If Marner and Nylander had the same contract, leafs have a cup

Until the fans don't boycott games, nothing will change

Players are overpaid for sure. But I don’t think we need to move Marner. We could end up like sens. Key is good goaltending. Last 2 years they started the wrong guy in net. Samsonov gave up the most screened goals in the league and he can’t track the puck. Both goals he gave up in game 7. Woll is the key going forward and we need to add another experienced goaltender even if he is old but bring a guy who is solid. He can be a backup to woll.

Boston Pizza's on the table. Marner could've been traded before July 1st last year, but Shanahan did not want to. It's the Leafs own fault they give no move contracts

O-dawg trying to compare the Leafs to Carolina is a terrible take. Since 2018-19 the hurricanes have never been knocked out in the First round of the playoffs and have made the conference finals twice in that span. Saying they won "nothing" is actually disingenuous. Yes, they didn't win anything of importance but, they've won a hell of a lot more in the playoffs than the Leafs recently.

Do you understand the definition of performance base salary? Do good get paid good. That is what I think Rookie base salary is for. Start and get paid something. Prove your value and we will pay you. Thoughts were positive but some feel the team didn't get what they paid for. I think they won't renegotiate this July 1. Similarly to Nylander in negotiations. We know the Leafs would prefer to keep Marner and Marner wants to stay, the best solution is to skip July 1 negotiations and play with Marner into the next season and see what he can do as a whole. Then negotiate after the next playoffs. Why? Because this is one last year to make a significant improvement. To remove Marner from the team, how and for who? There isn't anyone out there available. The team needs to depend on their farm team and drafts. The leafs won't find good trades.

Guys, Rangers fans are/were used to this. What changed for Rangers in '94, bringing in PROVEN winners- Messier and Graves. Guys who wouldn't accept y2y losingin playoffs. The core was almost there with Leetch, Buke, Richter, Alexi but the WINNING desire wasn't. Mess changed that. Toronto accepts losing in playoffs. Leafs need that catalyst guy, and of course, how about a good goalie?

I don't think anyone from the 5 gets moved next season.... the excuse will be ' theres no move that would make us better right now "

I’m at a 5%… 95% all 5 are back next season. Next year will be a write off to let those contracts naturally expire. Is what it is 🤷‍♂️ fans need to prepare to swallow another 2-3 seasons to get to a competitive team again.

Pelley was there to show that Shanahan is not the boss anymore. Treliving will have a lot of say, because Shanaplan is dead and Shanahan is a dead man walking. Marner is probably gone because the no trade contract doesn't protect him from hate. I can see Tavares trading his no trade year to re-sign for a lower cap hit extension. That would make him a hero. Bertuzzi won't be back without a paycut. They have to figure out goaltending and a true number one stud defenceman.

Your definitely not going to find h to o many nhl team fans quickly raising their arms saying, I’ll take him, or , we want him ! It’s best to put your head in the sand , and sit on your hands, and demand he stays his full contract on the team he signed with originally, just because the leafs fans want him out , does not mean the other teams want that kind of player. He signed that contract deal, he should honour it now and prove he deserves his leaf money

Pelley comes in….. and gives Shanahan another shot?. That alone says where LEAFS are going!. HAYES IS AMAZING !!!!…..

Guys for the last 10 years. Look what son of hand drafted Matthews he was one first overall are the top five players you will get something pretty good but what they have to show for after that second round is third rounders fourth round and so on zero. Have a nice summer boys

One of the reason why Leafs have trouble every year, your seeing good 2 to 3 depth players leave every year. Leafs are to the cap and are force to see good role players walk. Having that much turnover every year on good role players puts a lot stress on the coach staff.

The problems are deeper than the "core". The team depth is non-existent, goal tending is always second best, and the team doesn't have a number 1 defenceman.

Shanahan has 3 stanley cup rings with Detroit, who was the MVP of the Detroit Red Wings that made them champions, what was the one element that they had that the Leafs, never have had...Nic Lidstrom. He's got those million dollar rings and he never clued in that that was the missing most important thing. That's because he gave 53% of his salary to 4 players who never performed when it counts believing the defense would take care of itself...10 years.

If management decides two of the Five are being traded and they have no movement clause then threaten them with sitting in the rafters the entire yr

He’s going to the caps. Help ovie to 900 quickly then become the new face of the franchise the next 5-10 years and fans will be fine with that and embrace him cause nobody can replace ovie. He may very well assist in goal nr. 895.

Watching the Leafs manage a pro hockey is like banging your heard against a wall. The always do the EASY thing. Throwing around good money after bad.

I have not seen anything about the effect or affect of the car jacking on Marner. I don’t think he has been as dominant since. He has had good stretches but I have wondered about that incident.

Trade Proposal A) Marner and Reilly for Dobson and Horbvat B) Marner,Reilly Tavares for Malkin & Karlson C) Marner and Reilly for Werenski, Marchenko, Sillinger a 1st and and 2 rounder

Saw Sweden beat the US (5-2) with Hedman/EK65 and Dahlin/Brodin in the back end. That is what the Leafs neeeeeed!!!!

I am Mats Sundin and I have a NMC that I will not waive

Shanahan took full responsibility for the Leaf’s failure, then proceeded to fire Keefe. ✔️

Been saying this for years, the Tavares signing was a really bad idea. I get that Dubas got really excited for him, but that contract handicapped this team's potential so much. And its not that Tavares isn't good. But when you already have guys like Auston and Willy, its not worth tying up that much money into a NMC. Dubas screwed this team.

Hey guys, I have one question for all of you. Do you all believe that current management has what it really takes to win a Stanley Cup in this city??

Vancouver did it. Looked what happened. Sometimes it's the culture and attitude.

Hayes is the only person that gets it. love Hayes.

All they are going to do is change to coach. The two players you need to move have full No Movements. We're going to have to wait till next year and let 16 and 91 walk in free agancy.

So finally the management sees the Leafs as the rest of the league and the fans have seen it for 5 years +?

Think, instead of getting Tavares and trading Kadri - They just kept Kadri. Imagine how much money they would have had to address Defense and goalie positions. We are dealing with idiots.

One round defeats to the future Stanley Cup Champions, I'll take that like Salming, Sittler and McDonald went through. Tough division's, tough opponents. Wouldn't want it any other way. What if the Leafs played softies every year. Don't know if I would be as interested.

Buy out Tavares and tell Marner he is out. Give the team a list of ten teams that he would go to. Vegas would work really well.??

Anyone who thinks keeping Shanny is a good idea is absolutely out of their minds. That being said, as someone who loves seeing the Leafs lose, I support the decision.

If the GM goes to a player with a full no movement clause and saids we don't want you and if you stay you will not dress for any games then they will waive and give them a list of a few teams and you can move them ....that is how it works! I am so tired of people acting like people with large ego won't waive their no movement clause...it happens all of the time

Imagine treating someone so poorly for no reason at all that a player no longer wants to be here.