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yeeeees thanks Alex i have been waiting for your video on this game i hope you maybe can help the devs fix this game or atleast make them aware of the problems so down the line it can be fixed
@@BLAKSOLDIER Because it's literally just loading assets. It's always going to happen to some degree. Idk what the fix could be when the engine is trying a bit too hard to stay low on memory and there's too many 8Gb GPUs still being sold and the console architecture is what it is as well.
The animation section of this video is really something - Alex’s ability to even figure out what’s going on makes these videos so great, let alone that he managed to find a solution.
They simply don't care. People will buy the game because it's silent Hill and statistically almost nobody will refund due to "minor" issues. Why spend several million dollars polishing to get it the last 3% of the way there when it doesn't matter to the bottom line?
@@Philosopheraptor It's an inherent issue with unreal engine and it takes skill and effort to program around. It's 100% possible to deal with because some games do come out without stutter but for some reason it isn't prioritized. I truly don't understand it because like Alex says in this video, it's one of the most immersion breaking issues a game can have and can ruin the experience more than most other potential visual and performance issues.
Unreal Engine still stutters like a MF 4 years into PS5 generation. And with more and more developers using it to streamline development, i look forward another 5 years of stuttering on any hardware
As a modder I found out this game uses 5.1, which doesn't have any of the stutter fixes we see in later versions... I have no idea why this remake didn't upgrade versions before launching, it's a week or two of work.
@@dwagin6315 because epic is pressing the whole industry to use it Because MONEEH.. remember times when Studios had thier own engine? You could see the art of developers.. now its all bland and the same i can tell when a game is running in unreal.. doesn't matter how it looks or which art direction.
"The game runs great for me, you people are deluded." >9950x >Dual RTX 4090 >128GB 6000mhz >10Gb/s SSD >2000w PSU You see it for most games Black Myth, CP77, Starfield etc
@@TheAmazingSpiderGuy_99 for sure. I know little about it. But I can't even count how many awesome games I'm missing out on because stuttering just ruins the experience
I want to buy a beer for that person who found out that you can mod in DLSS Ray Reconstruction to swap the default denoiser! The IQ is so much better and there is basically no RT noise or "boiling" artifacts anymore. Awesome stuff!
Okay now this is vital information that I feel is more important than some stuttering. Not having RR when you could have seems way worse and thanks for the tip.
@@RedPuma90 Like Nicholas said most games that use ray tracing and have a version of dlss that already has ray recon built in it can be added, for the developer its literally just like flicking a switch, i dont know why devs choose not use it, its kinda weird as weve seen in most cases its way better than regular denoising.
OLEDs shines with BFI, what are you doing using VRR on them in the first place? You're just wasting the pixel response on a ton of persistance blur. VRR flickering happens on everything anyway.
lol if people thought Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk were bad at launch while on RED Engine, imagine what Witcher 4 and Cyberpunk 2 are going to be like on this utter shambles of a "game engine".
@@Spr1ggan87CDPR said they are working to avoid the actual UE5 issues. I believe them, but I really hope they do fix it cause.. not working fine even on a 4090 is BAD.
@@Walamonga1313 Silksong is a fucking sidescroller that could run a Tamagochi. We're talking high fidelity 3D titles not glorified SNES and MegaDrive titles.
And everyone is switching to UE5. Man, it will be a treat to run around in the next Witcher game, where every few seconds the screen stutters. Bright future upon us.
We already have the following mods: frame generation, ray reconstruction, pre-shader compilation, TAA modifier, image clarity, and performance enhancement. All of this is accomplished without access to the source code. The game comes with outdated DLSS files. Ladies and gentlemen, this is starting to feel like the Monday of AAA game releases
I am so sick of every modern game running like garbage. Hardware has gotten exponentially better while software gets increasingly sloppy and poorly optimized. It has pushed me out of the hobby as now when a game looks nice, I just think about how poorly it will run.
1000% this. I refuse to buy a game if it's performance is hot dog water. And so many people tell me I'm missing out on great games. The problem is they're not great games if they are a performance shit show. I refuse to play Elden ring because performance is terrible.
@@markusjohansson6245or just have both that’s what I do, if the port is crap on pc I get it on PlayStation I would rather deal with less fps the stutter fest
Something needs to happen, I don't know if Epic, Windows, Nvidia, AMD , Intel need to come up with some sort of a solution but I think we can put a bit of a pause in trying to increase visual fidelity and make sure the game can run smooth at least with medium range PC's.
This is all on Bloober Team, if they had used a solution that wasn't frame dependent then we wouldn't see this issue, the engine gives you the tools to fix this, you just have to learn to use them correctly
@@nimbo112 The jedi survivor devs made the same mistake. I'm sure they aren't the only ones. When so many people keep fumbling it, that's a systemic problem that needs a systemic approach.
@@gavinderulo12 I don't care that most people don't care. I want my playing experience to be as smooth as possible. I'm playing Robocop right now, which is using UE5 and it is running perfectly. My conclusion is that most devs don't know how to use this engine. Incompetence, lack of training, lack of time to polish the game?
@@RobertFromEarth Nowdays studios just hire some junior with some experience with UE, put together some assets from some library and call it a day, why spending month in optimization which is extremely hard and require some experienced people to work at it when you can just let Nvidia do it's magic tricks with frame gen, dlss and stuff like that. Only a minority notice stuttering so why bother? That's it and it won't change, it will get worse.
The place at the walk up to silent hill you actually are walking through a volume trigger that does trigger the initial city loading. If you enable hidden objects from the player it's a directly labeled volume for the preload.
It's not our job to fix this issue but for the people whose job it is to fix this issue they need to get their act together. They shouldn't be leaving it up to whether or not the customers can fix it themselves.
There is also the issue with dualsense and controller vibration in general on PC! When you open the map or read an item for a few seconds (not instant) the vibration and adaptive triggers stop working until you move the mouse for it to return! That is ridiculous, given you are opening the map frequently as part of the gameplay loop. I really wish Blooper team fixes this issue as soon as possible as I don’t think it is a big task for the controller functions to work properly and it breaks the immersion when I am going back and forth to move my mouse 😅
I also noticed this issue. I hope it gets fixed soon cuz I like how the controller's features work in this game as well as to fix the traversal stutters
Also noticed this. I was understanding when it first happened as it was before the games “real” launch but I’m very shocked there hasn’t been a patch to fix it yet, or any patches for that matter. I hope it’s because the patch that is coming will be huge in terms of fixes.
Controller vibration definitely has issues. I'm using an Elite 2 controller and when i open the game it's a toss up if the vibration will be on full blast (even if it's set to low on the game options), or if it won't work. I ended up deactivating it completely.
@@makoto4341 yeah I switched to xbox series controller to check and I got vibrations, but next time I opened the game there was nothing, tried couple of times same issue that I switched back to the broken dualsense implementation. There is a bug in the comtroller features in general that needs to be fixed. I hope the next patch fixes it.
Never would I imagine that we got out of the PS3/360 era with the "tying game logic to FPS" crap just to use it to fix the game animation more than a decade after 💀💀
As a UE developer, your findings are extremely interesting and very concerning. Usually delta time is used pretty much everywhere to avoid issues like the speed of the game changing with framerate (which plagued most older games, and Fallout 76 lol). Most default engine functions use it also, so you might be working with delta time without even knowing as it's all under the hood.
Good coverage! I have a mod called "SH2 Essentials" on Nexus. It aims to fix visual artifacts the game has without lowering performance. Be weary of some performance / stutter fix mods though. They switch the game to DX11, which has a higher average FPS but lower 1% lows so stutters are actually worse!
@@luumitdoppelu8092 I tweaked some values to reduce ghosting, improve clarity, and I powered draw distance of objects outside the fog since it was wasted performance, which resulted in a 6% uplift
@@Hybred Interesting, this has no negative impact on the quality of the Raytracing when enabling hardware based Lumen and / or combining it with DLSS Ray Reconstruction? Raytracing can be a bit finnicky with such changes from what I can tell.
I can only assume that it's because it's easy to develop games on. Same with Unity, which also often runs like crap. Also games are way too expensive and time consuming to make nowadays, so I guess the time and money investment for companies to create and update their own proprietary engines just isn't viable anymore. Presumably you'll have seen how everyone complains about Bethesda and FromSoftware's engines. I've even seen people suggest that both companies should scrap their engines and move to UE5 for their next games lol.
@@yewtewbstew547But there other engines. Like Decima, for example. Kojima is using it too, along with Guerilla Games, who created it. It would be great, if some other devs could use it too. Games, based on Decima look as good as UE5 based ones, but run much much smoother.
@stangamer1151 sony developers usually update their engines as well every generation. A reason why their 1st party studios have been slow so far. Notice how even in house, their studios use different engines for their games...naughty dog for instance doesn't use decima. I think kojima using decima was just a sign of respect to him after his departure from Konami, it's really not a 3rd party engine that everyone is free to use.
@@stangamer1151 Yeah, but Unreal Engine is available for anyone to download and learn. I believe many game developers nowadays learned how to make games in something like Unreal or Unity, so it's easier for studios to just use these engines instead of teaching their employees how to use some proprietary engine like Decima.
Still can’t believe a halo game will have to run on this stuttery engine. Can’t wait to stutter along the game world in a warthog. Idk how ppl get excited over UE5, yes it looks amazing but it plays so poorly.
Surprisingly didn't mention the shadow imprint the main character leaves on the fog while moving. I find this very distracting. Great analysis video though.
I have no knowledge of UE5s internal asset streaming manager, but I cannot fathom how a company of graphics programmers have allowed that problem to persist.
This is why proprietary engines are "better" they're dedicated for EXACTLY what the game/devs need and the devs have engine techs around to work on the engine. UE5 is a good all rounder, but is filled with unnecessary things depending on the game and it's completely out of the devs hands on how to handle in depth engine issues.
Publishers have to spend money and time to gut UE5 default tools to make it fit their game's vision is all. At least this is according to CD Projekt Red for their later UE5 sequels and I'll take it. Engines are just a vehicle games must use. Seems like everything comes back to time and money. UE5 is cheaper for dev tools/licensing fees, but if publishers spent a bit more money and effort for their devs to properly code their tailored games to UE5... We would surely get a great experience on PC. I guess cost/time losses its benefit rather than inhouse engine tools to MOST publishers who adopt UE5.
Excellent piece. The animation/delta time part is particularly interesting. It's great honestly, it feels like we're finally going somewhere with all these UE stutters! I'm curious to see the response to this, and hopefully a fix in a way or in another. Thanks Alex.
Adding UseFixedTimeStep to the launch options has the funny side effect of bringing framerate parity with the PS2 original. As someone with a 2080 Super this is perfectly fine with me as I don't see myself running the raytracing above 30FPS even with DLSS. I understand the frustration for all the 4090 owners out there that can't enjoy high framerates to the fullest though :)
@@nimbo112no. Its not just the pc community. Most gamers are casual and don't even really understand what fps means. You really think they care or even notice these issues?
@@AnimeUniverseDE hope so because as bad as the janky animations are (I find them more distracting than the actual stutters) being forced to play at 30fps is just as bad, pick your poison
I have to say, that modern games are not using fixed time steps with interpolation for rendering floors me. This seemed the obvious solution to me two decades ago to solve an entire class of delta time issues similar to those displayed in this video. Accessible examples of this technique can be found in the Ship of Harkinian source port of Ocarina of Time, where the game logic continues running at its original framerate, but the scene can be rendered at any framerate the player desires.
Fixed timesteps are not ideal, cuz when the frametimes are longer than the timestep, the game actually slows down and runs in slow motion. Use of a proper delta time avoids that. I'm pretty sure not every game engine that uses delta time has these issues that UE4/5 have, so it's definitely solvable. But, if you can ensure the frametimes will never exceed your timestep, fixed timesteps are fine. Edit: Before replying, I haven't actually read the second part of your comment, my apologies. You are correct that the source port of OAT as well as the source port of Majora's Mask use interpolation to smooth out the animation regardless of the fixed timestep of the game logic. That seems to work really well, but the game's responsiveness is still tied to that fixed timestep, which is not the case with using delta time.
Well, just don't play shit games... I see it as this ain't even released. It's not working so i don't fux with it, i just glance at the fake tease of a real game and move on from shitshows like this. I'm on a 3070Ti tho so i'm rather limited. Still is better than playing thru a game at 22fps. Gaming is a full on woke carcass at this point.
The day the developer was revealed should have started sending alarms going (and not the silent hill siren kind). If theres on thing blooper team stands out for is their technical incompetency.
On linux using VK3D (proton) with 7800x3d + RTX4080 almost no stutters, animation flawless. If you cap on 60fps - it's perfect. Could be totally windows timer "fault".
@@ArletteTatsuno Don't run using dxvk only. Use vkd3d + Dxvk glpAsync this way you will have zero stutters on top of that you won't lose upscaling support.
It's 100% traversal stutter. You can actually see this happen very obviously if you use the No Fog mod from Nexus Mods. I was messing with that mod and the Sunny Hills mod just to see how everything looked and the stutters are happening when sections of terrain and map get loaded in, which the fog is used to hide these sections being deloaded in the distance.
@@albert2006xp I don't think I am being to be honest. I love the game so far, it's stunning - the engine has that part down. I can even cope with the low framerates - I can't expect an RTX 2070 super to last forever. But what I can't deal with is nearly every game I've ran using this engine has stutters afflicting it - and the nature of the stutters seems to suggest that they can't be powered through with better hardware. Many games in this generation will still stutter in a PC that is from 2034. It's not good enough.
@@albert2006xp Nah he is completely valid. The game is decent enough but these issues are extremely noticeable when playing the game. If I can't game with 13700k and 3080 ti smoothly then this is shit indeed. Should've raised red flags among gamers when they revealed Bloober team was going to develop it.
@@AJ-xv7oh Yeah I did. It's a fantastic game. There's something wrong with UE5 - if the developers could fix it I'm sure they would, the game has had far to much effort put into it for them to just ignore something they could otherwise fix.
As a console player. I am happy these small traversal stutters in load zones that happen to load in the next area of the game aren't long hitches anymore as everything is streamed in. I remember back on PS3 where a game like Fallout 3 and New Vegas and GTA4 would just stop for a few seconds as the game loads in the next part of the world or assets. SSD's really are a godsend on consoles. Putting one in a PS3 also mitigates the issues in Fallout 3 and New Vegas and GTA4 on PS3. Just glad it's just a quick hitch and not the game completely stopping.
DeltaTime is one of the greatest enigmas to me. In concept it sounds like a perfect one-size-fits-all solution for games to support variable framerates (honestly I’m kind of surprised it was never considered in the past when games had to be reworked from NTSC to PAL and vice versa), but in practice there’s always some obscure caveat that makes it weirdly unpopular. I know plenty of indie games that can’t bother to work outside of 30fps solely so they can guarantee consistency, and even games like Pikmin 4 (running on UE4, mind you) have the animations and physics sped up if you boost the framerate to 60!
Why is the fog not reflected by lumen or even RT? It's so jaring, the ground keep reflecting black building outlines without the fog that should be on the way.
I don't think lumen software RT would be able to trace particle effects such as the fog. Theoretically the hardware RT would be able to trace and reflect the fog but I would imagine the performance hit to be absolutely massive as its effectively rendering the already demanding fog effect multiple times depending on how many reflections there are in a given scene and performance with RT on in this game is already pretty poor on even high end cards. I might be wrong on this though as I don't have much experience with UE5
@@FelipeOliveira-bj6mk I noticed it immediately too. Ironically I think the game would actually look more realistic with far simpler reflections used there. Or none at all. They wouldn't even necessarily need to be real time reflections, because realistically there should not be any meaningful clarity in these reflections. They should mostly just be grey with dark shapes moving behind them, because that's what the fog itself looks like.
After a bunch of testing I use vanilla game with custom ini that enables RR, black point adjustment to remove greyish black, the lumen reflection trick in this video, and disable chromatic abb. Games looks fantastic now. And knowing stuttering is unavoidable I don't botrher with mods.
how has Alex been hammering this for like 5+ years and these developers _still_ haven't figured out that you shouldn't delay the render thread in order to load in 25 whiskey bottle assets behind a closed door while running around outside.
Sweet summer child. Unreal engine was NEVER good. Go launch Arkham City (2011). Traversal Stutter. This has been an issue since before most people even knew what frame times were. Get used to it, because this will basically be the only engine used by AAA in about 10 years.
@@bananaphone3754 Yeah I noticed it back on UE3 but UE4 was way worse for stuttering. Dunno why people just caught onto this with UE5. (or even blaming DX12 for some reason when it was present back on DX9/10/11)
The last time UE was good was UE2/2.5. UE3 was defined by shit performance and pop-in, 4 and 5 have been defined by dogshit performance, looking soulless, and having chronic stuttering. It shouldn't be surprising though considering Epic and their owner despise PC Gaming.
The intro is absolutely hilarious! Alex, I think the DF team should do a conversation with developers that don't have stutters in their games and ask them for a deep dive into how they prevented stutters! I think this might be good for the entire gaming community - devs included!
From what I've seen at work (which is not at all in the field of gaming, but has similar concerns) is that thread scheduling can be quite wonky on Windows, leading to very unpredictable timing of things in real-time (very parallelized) applications. We had to use alternative 3rd party libraries to help with that, which eventually made timing rock solid in our case. But of course I don't know if that's the actual issue in UE5 here, considering that similar timing issues seem to be happening on the PS5 side (which is obviously not Windows).
All the amazing effects, awesome lighting and all around great graphics Unreal Engine 5 provides mean nothing as long as it continues to have awful stuttering.
The hitches are due to asset loading with the new seamless world having indoor spaces, some other UE5 games have had this issue (in addition to shader stutter) but not to this degree.
Add my voice to the chorus. This generation has completely killed my enthusiasm for not only pc gaming, but console as well. It’s almost never worth buying anything at launch, and even if most games run “better” on my ps5 in performance mode, they typically look like absolute garbage.
While UE looks extraordinarily ahead of its time as always, this again proves that a new coat of paint cannot fix flaws. This worries me after hearing that the new Halo project is utilizing UE.
This game looks great don't get me wrong, but it's not graphically leaps and bounds better than other recent 3rd person survival horrors like Dead Space Remake (Frostbite) or RE4 Remake (RE Engine). And whilst DS has similar flaws, RE looks and runs excellently.
It looks so much better on PC, the reflections, definition and clarity, i also completed the game on PC maybe im a bit biased. I really enjoyed the game since i haven´t played the original Sillent Hill 2. GG
The PS5 version's frame rate tanks hard in the Apartment block room with the large mirror in performance mode. Some of the rooms are near pitch black before getting the torch too.
