#talksport #trending #simonjordan #manchesterunited #manchestercity #talksportboxing #viral A debate about Manchester United and Manchester City badges regarding slave trade boats being represented on the badges
I'm white and proud if that makes me racist so be it. I couldn't give a monkeys what anybody thinks of me . And I'll always have love and respect for my ancestors whatever role they played in the making of the greatest country in the world
We dont talk about the Barbary Slave trade where 1 million White Europeans were kept as slaves by Muslims. Which happened at the same time as the Atlantic Slave Trade We don't talk about that Britain was the first to outlaw slavery and the biggest culprits of slavery was Portugal and Spain who took them to their colonies in South America. We don't talk about that it was African chiefs who sold their people into slavery.
we do but all of this information get blurred from the real culprits in the slave trade. The ones who were brutally killing slaves, putting them on ships, and scattering them across the world, that only happened whilst the Europeans, after conquering Egypt, this has never been recorded before, this wasn't slavery it was a new way of keeping a people down who use to rule. if it was just slavery the slaves would have been assigned to the conquerer's homes and be treated fairly, this didn't happen. also, ancient slaves weren't bound to a master, if they wanted to leave as long as they left for another village they were ok to leave to start new lives.
@@Jbroyal2 Ancient slaves we're not bound to a master? Tell that to Spartacus and thousands of slaves crucified along the Appian way... Or just the fact that Slave markets existed in Ancient Rome, or that only a Dominus (master) could grant freedom. Lol could leave to a new village and start a new life what cloud cuckoo land you been reading.
There is no Racism in Islam or as Muslims there is the fake religion Christianity! It's clear and obvious as we all know and can see and hear near enough on a daily basis
I was not aware of the debate over these badges until I stumbled upon this discussion. What on earth is going on?!! I have been a victim of racism and there is no place for it in modern society. I have also lived in a number of countries around the world for many years and every single one has a problem with racism. With absolutely zero doubt at all, the United Kingdom is by far the least racist country I have ever lived in. If the emphasis is now being focused on some emblems on football club badges I would venture to suggest that you might want to refocus your energies. There are far more important issues in society today, even problems (dare I say it) not related to racism.
The only people that are complacent about the issues surrounding racism are those who don't have to put up with it daily or doubt that others do, then it's easy to be dismissive of it as a problem. Don't be dismissive of this until you have walked in those shoes.
@Dwight Crichton you tell me 5 things a white British person can do that a person of colour can't, if you want let's call it 4,I'll make it easier, name me 1
i am from the Mersey coast, Eastham, the start of the manchester Ship canal. The tradw from Liverpool to the Americas was the primary trading route of this country for many years and the Industry of the working classes in the Northwest of England saw the goods going out of Liverpool and other goods coming back in. Manchester could bypass Liverpool by using the canal. Slavery was not the major element. Our maritime history is important and these images should not be removed just to placate people who are obsessed with the issue of slavery.
Yip, and we also get told 'we need to have conversations' but if you say anything you get lectured and told you can't express an opinion unless your skin is a certain colour.
Slavery still exists today, but wankers like Leroy wants people to feel sorry for him despite people actually being enslaved today. Leroy doesn't give a shit about the people that are enslaved today or in the past
Capital accrues. If you buy a house in 1838 with money earned from the abuse of men, women and children, the price of that house accrues until you sell it to provide funds to projects like the Manchester Ship Canal in 1887. This is how capital works. Your analogy is not just ridiculous it shows a complete misunderstanding of how the world of capital works. There are many families in the UK. including the ex PM. David Cameron's family who got wealthy via slavery and are still wealthy today because of the funds provided by slavery. Don't believe me? Well, just go online and your can see the records for yourself.
@@haatpraat2993 you need to get a life Manchester wasn't a slave port and I'm not surprised you are called PRAT , the previous comment explains everything, slaves were freed in Britain and its empire by British goverment literally buying their freedom cost millions then and billions in today's money , maybe even trillions , this all happened 60 years before construction started on the ship canal, a canal that was built to bypass Liverpool, which had ironically been a slave port but like I said slavery had been a thing of the past in Britain for 60 years before the canal was built the merchants who built the canal , with navvies not slaves were cotton merchants and cotton mill owners in England not slave owners or plantation owners living in the US
@@haatpraat2993 What he's saying is the ship canals can't be used as some sort of imagery promoting the slave trade. EVEN if capital from the slave trade which had probably been reinvested and recapitalised by that point was used to make it, it was not a product of the slave trade it was a product of MODERNISATION! Duh. People have fought wars over slavery, opium, geography, lineage etc forever, shall we just cancel every single culture? Fuk me, the plains indians were barbaric as a M*th*rf**k*r with each other they just didn't have the means to travel further or come together as one, does that mean we should collectively sh*t on them as well? MORONIC! Routinely killing mothers and babies of ur own race of people? Kinda Nazi like init. NOT! Turn the page, change the bloody record.
@@Ethtre1 when that opinion is draped in victimhood and false racism claims, linking anything to slavery or racsim is not just a different opinion is moronic, how low and desperate must these people be to associate a football badge with slavery
@@seanhickin9959 False racism? I did not hear him saying anything about racism just understanding the historical links. Lots of symbols exist to this day which have links to profits made from slavery but people don't know because they are not interested and it's never taught in schools. If people educated themselves they would not feel so threatened by a discussion.
Thank you for speaking sense Simon. And Simon is 100% correct. We are constantly told we have white privilege just because we're white. Where's the privilege to poor white families on housing estates the length and breadth of the UK, Dependant on food banks, and hand outs to keep the electricity on to warm the house. And btw, just because we are white, we can still have an opinion on historical facts. Us British ended slavery.
We aren't "repeatedly told" about white privilege at all, you boring old fart. It's funny how only a few sentences is enough to tell me you're a brexit voting daily mail reading gammon. Educate yourself you baboon.
These people need help! Manchester has a geographic location that is close to the River Mersey, and a canal was built to get the ships up to Manchester. So ships symbolise Manchesters industrial success.
They are closet racists themselves that make everything about race and hating on white people with their alleged white privilege. Desperate and pathetic attempt, this to demonize Whitey all over again. Simon is right. It's being weaponised as certain words are weapons now too.
It’s a coloured person gagging to make racism an issue this is completely draining listening to this stuff. Simon correct as always. Don’t know why they are making an issue of it when Trevor Sinclair is employed by the station which is a way more bigger point as been through the courts but we’re not allowed to raise that
The Manchester ship canal was not about bringing cotton to Manchester,it was about bypassing Liverpool port authorities who had a stranglehold on import duties.
‘Those who are determined to be ‘offended’ will discover a provocation somewhere. We cannot possibly adjust enough to please these fanatics and it is degrading to make the attempt.’
There is never any mention of the way Irish Catholics were discriminated against and still are today to a lesser extent. Do you think that is because they were white ?
History is very subjective. The historians have a very ambiguous way of describing the past. One thing I must point out is this. There isn't a person alive today, that had anything to do with the slave trade, with the Roman occupation of Britain or the crusades. Dwelling on the past, can only bring sorrow and resentment. The people of today, should not pay the price for what went on previously.
How can we forget about all the racism when a certain ethnic people won't let us and keep bringing it up again and again and again and again even in places where it OBVIOUSLY doesn't exist
I would have thought the ships symbolised the ship canal and its impact on the area. Who said the ships represent slavery. Arsenal ? Is the cannon representative of Empire?
The ships on City and United’s badges was taken from the Manchester Coat of Arms, which was created in 1847, 40 years after the King signed the Slavery Emancipation.. and 60 years after Manchester boycotted the slave trade. To suggest the ship has any link to slavery is absurd.
This is such a tiresome and corrosive subject, which is doing immeasurable harm and damage to society. But then the perpetrators want that, don’t they?
No black person will ever tell me about white privileges. Has a white working class man from West Belfast I know only to well to be treated as a second class citizen in my OWN country!!
As someone who studies History, i fully agree with Simon on this issue 100% but this debate shouldn’t be on a sports radio. Politics should be separated from football unless football clubs have historically been linked to sectarianism as it forms a part of their identity like Celtic and Rangers. Keep Marxism out of football
Merchant ships sailed to Africa and took millions of Africans on slave ships to slave colonies. The work of these slaves built a nation and funded the industrial revolution (go see the numbers in terms of profit which the slave colonies brought into Britain and indeed Europe) So let’s get it straight but for slavery merchant ships and the 16 century European concept of race eg black and white constructs there would be non of this modern day racism kneeing on throats, lynching or need for talk of “kicking it out”. Racist have no understanding and increasingly the new strategy is to deny its existence.
The Prism of colour is all to prevalent these days. 90% of the UK population is White but the positive discrimination that is now adopted by all media including talksport is insane. Add it to the gender equality discrimination you have sky sports programs hosted by 2 black men, a women and if they can possibly achieve it a black lesbian. totally non representative of the colour and gender of 90% of the audience. the upshot of it is that half the commentators or hosts are chosen under this rationality and the standards of language and commentary skills have unfortunately plummeted. Leroy is arguing that these boats may or may not have been a reference to slavery back 200 years ago, well its hardly the boats fault (or are we at that stage where we can blame objects for historical failings) dont tell me Leroy has issue with boats!??! Manchester has a rich history going back a 1000 years as a port. So lets all address real racism, stop creating it where it doesnt exist. Or I will b e insisting on some Asian's on the screen !!
@@steviesteve4118 I think his comment on certain parties weaponising of the past to attack unassociated people in the present was a particularly astute observation however like he said you're allowed to respectfully disagree
Both the ships on the united and city badges represent the manchester ship canal , the ship signifies every ship that sailed past Liverpool and went to Manchester, the Manchester ship canal was built 60 years after slavery was ended in Britain and its empire wokeness gone mad , the ship represents free trade.and is a sly dig at Liverpool too 😀
Racism and slavery through a badge, is ridiculously trivializing the reality. There is no racism in slavery, all races have been slaves. It was never ending and will never end
This is absolutely ridiculous!!! I don’t care about the badges. They represent the clubs nothing else. Who keep digging into the past to cause issues. Let’s be honest who ever linked club badges with racism until someone decided to try and get their 5mins of fame.
Leroy is the most disingenuous person I have heard in a while. He claimed he didn't want this taken to where Simon knew he did. Leroy never said where we all know he wants to take it. Kept playing the victim! weak person!
History is history here, whether we are proud of our history, or ashamed of our historical origins, nevertheless, they are our history's origins, if we start dubbing out history to appease a certain group is bordering on censorship, rubbing out history because it offends someone, has anyone ever just considered a SIGN, yes that's right a lowly inexpensive sign, like at the beginning of an old Movie, or at the foot of a statue that says " this statue was, at the time depicted, and at the time of casting, done in and depicts a time of outdated views and opinions" or this film was filmed in a time and depicts a time of outdated views and opinions" end of story, or we risk censorship, history is supposed to show how far we have moved on from a shameful period in our past, not rub it out completely, a sign can be both informative and compassionate towards a situation that means we do not need to dub movie soundtracks or remove statues, they are all part of history, and shameful or not, is still history, and a sign solves both of these situations in my view, or is a sign more expensive than its meaning to put one up to explain why it's there.
The Irish don't go around with a chip on their shoulders about being taken from their country as indentured slaves before ever a black person was. Loose the chip or brick on both shoulders Leroy.
It’s about the three rivers and the Manchester ship canal and the bee which is used on the three rivers the Irvine medlock etc and the Manchester bee symbol comes from the three rivers and the ship canal nothing to do with slave trade what do ever do you research on Manchester history
The ships are there to represent Manchester which became a port with the construction of the ship canal in the 1890's this was nearly a century after the ending of the slave trade so the link is non existent.
@@hattmancock6396 no mate this country has nothing, no gold, no lions, not one let alone THREE, no diamonds, no minerals raw materials, no men to fight it’s wars, but for help you’d be talking German, no oil no natural resources. Coal was made obsolete decades ago. This is just a little island surrounded by water and few champions of note other than the immigrant ones that represented the “Mother Country” . Britain built it’s fortune off of the backs of African slaves, double dealings and duplicity and the fortune of the Tommy Gun but for this there ain’t nothing great in Britain. A weak nation that like a woman has to use charm, tricks and in some cases skullduggery to get what she wants. The joke is none of this was done for the serfs the peasants or the Victorian lumpant proletariate, the work house crew, the Oliver Twist lot. No it was done for the Elites. Plebs actually exist
Where does the Manchester bee come from ??? It comes from the three rivers medlock etc and the ship canal bee signs close to every one’s heart in Manchester history where the Manchester badges come from City and United
I always thought it was to symbolise the hard working people of Manchester. In a worker bee symbol. I had no idea it had anything to do with the rivers.
Is Leroy as passionate about the Barbary slave trade ? Where over 1 million white Europeans were taken as slaves by North Africans, at exactly the same time period as the slave trade he is referencing. For the record as well there were no slaves brought to the U.K. 99% of black British people are the descendants of people that came to the U.K. under their own free will and for a better life since the 1940s.
The British did not lead the abolition of slavery neither were they genuine about its abolition it was the Haitians who defeated them. British lost over 50 000 men attempting to reintroduce slavery on the island. The British could no longer afford slave trade because Haiti independence was emphatic.
a "positive outcome" in what way? Meddling with anything that can be tagged to slavery leaves everything open to change for the sake of activists who will never stop.
Bonkers. May be those same ships will cause us to remember the historical but not politically correct fact, that the Barbary Pirates captured enslaved and shipped 1m Europeans (including Brits and Irish) to North Africa.
Sunderland have a ship on their badge, its signifies sunderlands ship building history, should that be removed?, utter nonsense fron leroy, well done simon, the past has gone thankfully, move on leroy
About the only time I agree with Simon .. slavery is all colours & nationality's 71% of modern slavery is made up of women & girls, 50million slaves in total according to records of 2022.we can assume that these are not all black people, we've moved on a tad from the 17th/18th century. One life live it, respect people & be nice to people where you can.. there's wars happening right now and we concern our lives with what's on badges, get a grip... Big up SA PETE well said 😍
Shall we hate the Italians for what Romans did, should we hate all Germans for WW2?? Its the past, we will never move forward if we keep dragging it up. To me Leroy has got a problem with HIMSELF but is projecting it onto others and playing the victim card. Its just so boring
