Basically. Playing the germans, even the SS, in a ww2 wargame doesn't mean you're going to goose-step into your local gaming store or club shouting Heil Hitler. It's a wargame, nothing more.
"We don't want our camo pattern to actually work when we put him on the table..." I salute your self-control for not saying "because we'll never find the bugger again if it does." A well-considered project.
I lost family in Buchenwald concentration camp, I'm Jewish but often in my wargaming career have played as Germans, I have no problem with the models on the table, especially as gamers research their armies and know the history, which keeps it alive. I currently field a Fallschirmjager Bolt Action army and would love to see your take on late war uniforms for them
I think it's a necessary step to familiarize oneself with the history you're bringing to the table. As long as it's out of genuine interest and there's respect shown the subject, it can work. My wife's side of the family is German - by chance, Opa was very nearly conscripted by the SS himself. He's 94 this year, and still kicking; a lucky escape by a matter of weeks. As concerns Fallschirmjaeger: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-qX5RPE2FqBc.html Beat you to it!
I can play Germans in WW2 but I'm often disturbed by the fascination the German army has on the average WW2 wargamer. It seems like it is the first army they want to collect; many know with an unusual degree of interest and detail each of their formations, know their ranks in German, etc. There is a good book about this fascination, by American historians, called "The Myth of the Eastern Front", focused in that particular theater but with specific chapters dealing with pop culture and wargaming and no surprise -- a lot of it was actually influenced by Nazi apologists after the war ended!
There was a post-war lobby group of Waffen SS veterans - the HIAG, if you're interested to go looking - which had a lingering impact on how the organization was portrayed and understood in the western nations during the Cold War. The idea of them as misguided but essentially noble soldiers forming the bulwark against 'Asiatic hordes' was... yeah. It didn't fly at the time in West Germany, but that took root outside their borders in ways that continue to influence the Hollywood caricature of the cool, calculating Nazi power structure.
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio yes, the HIAG is mentioned as one of the postwar influences on the popularity of Nazi Germany in "The Myth of the Eastern Front". HIAG was responsible for the plethora of books with titles such as "Waffen SS in action" which try to hide the fact these were murderers (and which sadly, regularly pop up in hobbyist circles...)
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio Brother, what's with all the I'm gonna virtue signal so everyone doesn't think I'm a nahhhssseee stuff all of a sudden? I personally clicked on this video because I'm interested in using this camo pattern for some Astra Millitarum and maybe even my own home brew chapter of marines. You do realize that just because you use something that may have been used by rather evil individuals in past history doesn't mean you're supporting them in any way? Anyone out there reading this own or like VW beetles, or like Hugo Boss clothing or enjoy drinking Fanta? Guess what, all three of those things came into being because of the head lunatic who started WWII and his cronies. An I doubt anyone out there who enjoys these things secretly practices goose stepping behind closed doors. An no I'm not downplaying the atrocities of the past. Oh and by the way, if you see this post this question is aimed directly at you Sonic Sledgehammer Studios because I'm curious of your answer. In the past on this channel I've seen you do countless painting tutorials involving the Soviets as well as the CCP. You do realize that for all the blood the nahhhsseee's spilled it pales in comparison to what the CCP, soviets and the various world communists movements have spilled throughout the 20th century and continue to spill to this day? Matter of fact the CCP and the soviets each have more then earned their places in history for being part of the most cruel regimes that humanity has known. There's a very good reason why so many people who have survived their terror or have studied military and political history refer to them as the butchers of the 20th century. Tell me my friend, why no disclaimer and links to information about the butchery they committed? I hope you don't think that what they did doesn't deserve highlighting as well? After all, butchery is butchery no matter what side of the political isle it comes from. Isn't it?
When you're making a real world model, logically you've to be the most realistically possible. This is one of the best tutorials for this kind of camo, this one could be used for other minis, as IGs or some WH40K'S orks.
Those who deny or forget history are doomed to repeat it. Considering that fasism and holocaust denialism is again on the rise it is good to talk about the history and more importantly remember. Thus, your introduction was spot on.
@@thepiratepenguin4465 Why not! Also another interesting subject is the homophobia that still runs rampart in many of the ex-British colonies (especially in Asia).
Always enjoy your painting tutorials. All things considered with the miniature in question, it's nice to see a video on the painting of a historical miniature. Can be used to paint other soldier minis outside of the WWII setting, like guardsman or other sci-fi minis.
It still surprises me occasionally how people hear *half* of what I said and get het up over it. The whole point was that there's nothing wrong in putting these guys on the table, but I think there's a responsibility there in knowing the history - which is true of any historical game, I'd suggest.
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio It would be a disservice to not be aware of the context of your model. Especially in a historical game! Surely you’re painting and playing because you have an appreciation for the often painful history of your models.
Thanks for that intro, I think that was well handled. I think all of us historical painters do (or at least should) struggle with the implications and history of our minis. I think providing information like you have helps to prevent our models from glorifying or legitimizing, even unconsciously, the indescribably hateful and evil ideology behind them. I personally did a whole force of Canadian/commonwealth troops for flames of war, and am about to start a force of Germans, mostly so I can get more games by providing both sides. Still doesn't feel great to make them, but I am never shy on sharing my views on the horrors of the nazis and their cowardly modern imitators.
Very true! It's something that ticks over in the back of my head when the 'we're all adults' line comes up. Respectfully, but not everybody is! Especially as time passes and we see more young gamers coming in to fill the ranks of us weathered old grognards, a brief primer doesn't harm anybody.
I've been a long time subscriber of yours as you do so many guides in areas I find incredibly useful. I really appreciate your intro which was so well thought out. I wanted to just add a little more depth into the discussion. With today's world being what it is with cancelling everything a certain demographic doesn't agree with it is so easy to lose history or worse still repeat its mistakes which is why history is so important. And boy oh boy is the world repeating mistakes. The recent middle east flare up and the rise of antisemitism is quite frankly alarming at best. Now I come from German heritage and believe me growing with that heritage with kids all from UK heritage wasn't a bed of roses shall we say. However it made me an aside student of history especially military history. It made me want to see both sides of a conflict and I have over many decades studied WW2 and had many first hand accounts from both allied and German combatants from that conflict. Myself being in the military and been in combat with the South African Defence Force. Its also been my experience that many would see me as many see the Nazis or the Waffen-SS. Now straight off the bat nothing the Nazis did I condone in any way but I do defend the combat soldier and the capabilities and achievements of the German soldier. Believe me no combat Waffen-SS soldier would have any time for his fellow SS man that chose to be a Guard at a concentration camp. No question the Waffen-SS were brutal and did some very bad things.....but i can tell you both sides in war do very bad things. I know I did...as did my enemies. On D Day there were very few German POWs taken.....why? Well if you had allnyour buddies mowed down you wouldn't exactly be dishing out donuts to the guys that were shooting at you. This is highlighted even in recent conflicts where civilian courts tried British soldiers for actions against the Taliban in A'stan. Nobody that has not served in combat can ever possibly understand what we go through, went through and decisions that had to be made to survive and protect our brother warriors. War is bad there is no good and bad side....its all bad. You don't want bad things to happen in war.....don't start wars then! But that is a ludicrous mentality as evil exists in the world and sometimes there is no choice but to fight. Apologies for the ramble on, main point I wanted to highlight, I doubt any man that joined the Waffen-SS to go into combat joined because they got told they could massacre civilians and Jews. The SS was the elite and likenall elites even today there is an attraction to that. To be the best. I know from my own grandfather who witnessed first hand the bravery of these men in saving his home village which was part of Germany but nowadays part of Poland. Many families got out thanks to the mad bravery of those men. Till his dying day he would not allow in his presence a bad word to be spoken about those Waffen-SS soldiers. I always am very selective about which units I put in the table and see them as representing the fellow warriors I knew fought by my side and I by their side. That aside once again a terrific video for a unit I'm currently painting up in this camo pattern. Thanks you for all you do on this channel.
Excellent intro to the video and very well thought out, you are my favorite painter on youtube and are the reason I got on board with bolt action. Thank You
WOW. I think this is the best ever cammo paint job you have done so far even beating the British Para figures.ive always said if you choose the right colours then that's half the work done.This miniature really pops.well done 👍👏👏👏👏
Great intro, excellent painting. This technique with a bit of colour adjustment would also work splendidly for the modern Russian "Partizan" / KZM camo. Pedantic observation - By changing the base colour for this to a sort of purple-grey you can get another variation (Burred edge with pale tan, Oak A with the purple-grey). German camo patterns of WWII can be a deep rabbit hole to fall down but if you are doing the 12th in Normandy, it can be worth it as they wore a crazy quilt of the variations as well as Italian camo. I view accurate painting of the subject (for both sides) as worth doing - the German war machine was an extremely tough enemy and the Allied troops who faced them overcame tremendous hardships in taking Europe back and finally stopping the vipers nest that had grown so very large. Cheers!
Your painting videos are both relaxing and helpful. I bought a box of bolt action waffe ss secondhand two weeks ago and used your grenadier video as a guide. I struggle a bit on how to do the camo on them, but this explanation is going to help me out.
Osprey publishing have a fantastic book on how to paint German camo, it's in there modelling series. Although it's meant for 1/35 scale figures the method can easily be used in 1/56 scale.
In wargaming, no one gets to shoot nazis, unless someone paints the nazis. Locally pretty much everyone in our historical gaming club has both allied and axis forces so we can easily switch off which one we play to keep our games somewhat historical. Playing as the axis is one heck of a challenge too. These SS guys got what was coming to them. Shiny, lets be bad guys.
My grandfather liberated Flossenbürg concentration camp with the 97th ID. I still have some of his old photos and they are horrifying. It’s one of the more little known camps and it was surprising to hear you lived near there. Been a fan of your videos for a long time, and have used your videos for doing a British airborne, American airborne, and Waffen SS force for a market garden campaign. This really helped me take on the SS camo.
I've toured the Nazi Party Rally Grounds at Nürnberg - obviously now a museum - and the Flossenbürg camp, and man... those are very different experiences. The rally grounds have absolutely masses of information and give kind of a 'big picture' of the rise of fascism, the Nazi party, and all that followed. That's a long, hard day in a museum. Flossenbürg by comparison is still nestled neatly in a quaint little Bavarian town, and you're surrounded by the very stark impression that this was all happening somewhere real, somewhere close to home. It's a different kind of difficult to square with, I guess. Glad to know that these have been some use in getting models on the table, tho! 😅 Market Garden's a favourite of wargamers with good reason!
If you are looking at this for Flames of War or any other 1:100 or 15mm models, I would recommend using a toothpick instead of a paintbrush for the orange camo. I have found it easer to control and it comes out better in my opinion. Awesome tutorial though!
Nice video! I painted up a handful of these guys a while ago- some for my German force and the others for my Polish AK force for the Warsaw uprising (as the home army used SS smocks captured from a supply shipment ment for the Wiking Division prior to the 44' uprising and worked it into their ad hoc uniform- really interesting to read into if you have time!). Something also worth mentioning about the camo smocks is that they were actually manufactured in the Dacau and Birkenau camps, which makes the idea of these things extra cursed and monstrous...
Now that's a couple of additional notes on uniform I really didn't know! Especially about working these into a Warsaw Uprising force, that'd be an amazing looking partisan force for the table.
I would echo many of the comments here. History is what it is. Having served in combat i will tell you that i didn’t associate every Iraqi (or Iranian) shooting at us as necessarily evil or bad. Some were sadly caught up in a very difficult situation. I met many that were just trying to feed their families in chaos. I would also point out that accurate portrayals are part of history and they teach people who observe war games a great deal. Human history is full of terrible things. The Mongols butchered legions of civilians, the same for the Persians, Ottomans…but even our own Curtis LeMay remarked that after what strategic bombing did to civilians if the allies lost he would have been tried for war crimes. “Bomber” Harris would have been a coconspirator in that I am sure. Sherman was right up there with his desire to bring brutality forward to finish carnage faster. And that is kind of the point. Historical war gaming allows us to discuss the history of conflicts. Relating the removal of pieces off the board represents the great cost of combat. We can emphasize that it is far preferable to remember history by honoring it with accuracy and truth in gaming, than it is to forget it and repeat it in the real. Your work is brilliant. I told my wife I think of you as the “Bob Ross” of war gaming miniature painting. For Americans, being compared to Bob Ross is uniformly high praise. I am so glad you are willing to share your gifts with all of us.
Kudos to you for the intro, Sonic. While the whole German army during WW2 is shady (to say the least, re: the clean Wehrmacht myth), the SS and Waffen SS is where I draw the line. I won't collect them, paint them or use them in my games, just as I wouldn't enjoy building a diorama of Auschwitz. That said, an excellent paint tutorial as always!
The Nuremberg museum is so real. It's up there with Auschwitz as WW2 memorials/museums. I went way back in 2012 when I was taking 18 months off work backpacking about the world. Certainly brought me out of holiday mode quick smart. Superb paint job here. I did my first pea camo on a 1/35 scale figure a few weeks back. Not as hard as it looks, just takes a bit of time. So much more interesting than early warm german grey too!
'Brought me out of holiday mode' is one way of putting it. I remember stepping out into the sunlight after a couple hours walking the museum and not quite knowing how I was supposed to spend the rest of the day after something like that. Something I'd still thoroughly recommend people visit if they've got the opportunity, though.
Being as close to some of these sites as I am makes it a lot easier to be able to connect how these places would have looked and what replicating that on the table looks like. The family here's also got a couple of photos from '43 of Great Uncle Engelbert, smiling a little nervously in his smart new Wehrmacht uniform - he was drafted, and as my in-laws put it, "Can you picture this family volunteering for anything so stupid?" but it's a really strange sensation to look through that lens.
great paint job on the mini. however there were no trousers issued to the WSS that were made in the oakleaf patterns. the only camo trousers issued was the “peadot” camo. if there are trousers made from oakleaf patterns they were “field” made.
Well done. Thank you for treating the subject so sensitively. I have a lot of Bolt Action minis and it's a hard thing sometimes to realize I'm "rooting for the bad guys" when I play Germans.
Well, yes and no. The ethics of historical wargaming in a much broader context is really a fascinating thing to consider. I'm lucky enough to know a pretty broad church of wargamers, and it surprises me occasionally to know how many of them are serving or former members of the armed forces; the idea that this 'trivializes conflict' doesn't seem to hold, especially when some of the earliest big names of wargaming in the 20th Century were returned servicemen looking to answer the question of, "What might I have done differently?" It is 'just a game,' and also not just a game - it's a bloody tangled mess! But to at least give the question some consideration is worth the time, whatever answer people arrive at.
Nice paint job and I wanted to say well handled introduction, I’ve been worrying how to handle painting and discussing these very models as part of a project I’ve been doing, painting up models from the Normandy campaign. Approaching this as an opportunity to educate is bang on and I hope to be able to do it as well as you when I get to wringing these posts :)
Honestly, decent take early on. Better than some people that label you a goose stepper and give you passive aggressive looks just because you have an SS/German army out. Far far wiser.
I think it stands to reason that in most historical games, someone invariably has to play 'The Bad Guys,' or the aggressors, however you want to put it. Accepting that the SS are the baddest of the bad is just part and parcel, but so long as you're aware... get on and play.
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio As long as someone's aware that human history was generally vicious and generally not a fully pleasant place to be in, i tend to be lenient with what people play.
Another great 'How I Paint Things"👍 And I agree with everyone else who commented on how you've sensitively handled the topic. I think if you drew a Venn diagram showing wargamers who collect SS and Confederate armies, you would find a significant (and somewhat disturbing) overlap.
ohly a congenitally stupid population like anglo-americans could wreak genocide in India and against the Native Americans and then 'cry' about the III Reich
I have been reading a lot about the Canadian Infantry Division's fighting in Normandy. They went up against the 12th SS hitlerjugend, that were mainly made up of 17-18 year old brain washed fanatics. A lot of Canadians were executed by the SS against the Geneva convention. So here's the conundrum: if I want to pay respect to the Canadian contribution in Normandy and the sacrifice they did, I have to include the SS in my games. To avoid the SS because of the atrocities they committed would lessen the Canadian efforts and ordeal in Normandy.
As a Jew whos family died in concentration camps ran by the SS its good to see someone adressing this, as out of the thousands of posts ive seen on youtube and social media about bolt action waffen ss, barely anyone mentions how terrible they were.
Haven't painted up my Kill Team Krieg guardsmen yet and with it being autumn, may have a color scheme for their jackets! Rest of uniform will be Army Painter Army Green spray.
Love the video and will be using this for my SS. Question about equipment colour- what colour should I be using for equipment? Things like panzerfausts, mortars and the howling cow?
I really liked how you approached the sensitive subject about wargaming with Germans, even though we know the horrific things done during the Second World War. I had family in Poland (and Greece) during the war and my grandmother would sew money in the clothing she sent to her family in Poland while she was a red cross nurse.
Didn't know you lived in Germany, greetings from the Saarland. Thank you for trying to handle this well, as it shows we germans are not the only ones having issues tackling these topics. I assume you are british, due to your accent.
you handled that intro with aplomb. It's important to remember that men and women of unparalled determination (aka fanatics) exist and they are not always on your side. I really need to break out a Primaris and give him this camo pattern.
@@stephenrider6107 TBH the Nazi military wasn't actually that advanced on the global scale. It had some fancy toys but overall its logistics and infrastructure were inferior to the Allies. ...Which fits the Imperium too, actually.
I always feel like weird finding the design of 'them' really cool. But it always keeps a sour taste afterwards what it was used for and by whom. The way you talked about it in your intro worded it perfectly for me how I feel about the subject.
It's something where as long as you're aware of the history and there's time spent learning as part of the process where you're building and painting an army, it's all in service of something genuine and important. Taking the opportunity to find out more about the past and those who're affected by it - and those that perpetrated it - doesn't detract from the fact that ultimately, it *is* meant to be an enjoyable hobby, and someone has to play the bad guys sooner or later!
Great tutorial as always, I have Cadians painted in this pattern. Can I make a request? HECU marines out of half life, I'd love to see how you would do those!
If you want the neat looking gear without the baggage, the Polish Home Army often stole and used ss infantry kit, so just greenstuff an armband to paint white and red and you can have the cool camo without the monster beneath it
It's only since having published this one that I found out about the Polish Home Army having robbed a supply train intended for SS Wikinger Division, which is extremely satisfying to me. Especially considering they followed this up by getting their hands on not one but two functional Panthers!
I'm trying to post a comment regarding the Camo scheme and it won't let me post it. There's a website with accurate depictions of Camo called atthefront. I just wanted to ket you know the oakleaf autumn Camo for the darkest shade isn't brown/chocolate, but rather a very, very, very dark brown almost black hue. The Plane Tree is brown/chocolate though. That website prides itself on historical accuracy. The plane tree spring side has a black hue to it for the darkest Camo color though. It gets confusing
RU-vid ordinarily doesn't much like comments with links in them. As to accuracy, using essentially the wrong colours here is intentional. At these scales, using a colour that's just off-black will almost entirely lose that distinction, especially under a shade. Most of these inaccuracies you'll see from scale model makers and miniatures painters are deliberate; accurately recreating camo at this scale ends in a blurry visual mess on a miniature.
Mr sonic sledgehammer, I’m sad you’ve had to open your video with the whole nazis spiel. NO ONE grown up would ever think your views run parallel with the vile because you’re painting a plastic ss soldier. I didn’t watch your Russian WW2 videos and think: this guy thinks people belong in the gulag. Keep doing what you do and don’t apologise for it. It’s a war game, end of. We all know what the uniforms represent and I’m worried that you may have felt you needed to explain yourself. All the best, T.
I don't think the point was necessarily that I'm worried about people thinking I might sympathize with the Nazi party, more that these things have a historical context which ought to be considered when assembling and painting an army for the tabletop. It needn't be a constant, crushing reminder, but the _knowing_ is important.
Agreed to your very well put comments. You have a great channel. I have German orange but the fire dragon bright looks perfect. The flesh was highlighted in Beige red or Basic skin tone?
This chap's from the plastic Waffen SS boxed set. They've got different smocks and tunics to the plastic Grenadiers, and a few different weapons options in there.
Hi mate I have been watching you for over a year now and I love all your teaching tips and tutorials. Can you please tell me where you get your bases? They look like they have a little lip on the edges. Also what size are they. Thanks so much. Matt.
Pretty much all the camo gear would end up in the hands of SS units by the late war period, so they aren't terribly specific to a campaign - they aren't even specific to a season, more often than not. The only ones you'd see restricted to a specific time of year would be the snow suits, otherwise green or orange oak leaf and even the pea dot camo would be worn as and when gear was available.
Hey Sonic, do you have a video detailing the painting process for the Pea Dot Camo (Erbsenmuster)? Through my research I’ve found that the uniforms were either Field Grey or Pea Dot camo and the camo in this video was used only for the smocks like you say.. I was wondering if you have any tips for a paint scheme for the Pea Dot uniforms as I really don’t know where to start and I wanted to mix up the regular uniforms with guys wearing the camo instead of just Field Grey 😅
I follow all your WW2 videos and your content is incredible, I follow them to the letter. May I ask, What colour/process do you use for the Panzerfaust?
The panzerfaust is just a couple coats of Vallejo Desert Yellow before the shade. You could highlight with a little Iraqui Sand or similar, but it doesn't usually feel like you need to on hard equipment like these.
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio thank you for your reply, I’ve given your tutorial a good, it’s not easy to get started and taking me a few models to get used to camo painting. I will post and tag you on Instagram when I upload my minis. Ps, what colour did you use on the rifle I like the pale look of the wood
At the end of the day, it's a game. Not a political statement by the player. Worse case scenario , in my opinion, is you teach someone something they didn't know before.
The half a handful of eggs who complain about "politics? in MY wargame about wwii?", the intro literally has timestamps. If you have an issue with someone pointing out in a very objective manner that the Nazis who signed up for the war crimes division did bad things as part of their job that they volunteered for (I can't stress this enough - they could literally have chosen to simply not kill every single day for 20 years! There were so many ways of being a Nazi without volunteering for active war crime duty between 1925 and 1945!), might I suggest you think about why this very skippable intro annoys you so much?
People really are getting a lot of mileage out of "What about the Soviets?" still! I've answered this question a few times by now; take a scroll through the comments if you'd like an honest answer.
it looks great. But try not to be so afraid or politically correct, like midwinter mini's. It's a miniature, a toy soldier. You're not a Nazi, not even for painting a Nazi soldier or playing with a Nazi army. It's part of this hobby. We all have to play the baddies at some point, whether they're SS or Orcs.
It's funny, since I was just talking about this video with someone the other day and how regularly that introduction gets misinterpreted. I never said nor implied that anybody - myself included - putting SS miniatures on the table is a bad guy. I did specifically say we don't need to feel bad every time we're putting these guys down to fight, after all. The point being made is that these aren't card tokens in a sci-fi board game or similar; knowing the history behind them is an important part of playing a historical wargame, especially in a time of tensions where 'Nazi' gets thrown around extremely casually.
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