skiing square vs countered vs rotated - what is it? EXPLAINED 

I used to follow tom on his instragram and i stopped watching after he started talking about physics that he clearly has no idea about. his understanding of physics is non existent and he claims this great knowledge. After that I looked into him a bit more and he seems like a charlatan or used car salesman conning people. His information is so boring and his skiing is levels below someone like the project productions guys. Even me who is an intermediate skier can see the difference between them. tom comes across condescending and arrogant. I don't like it at all and stopped following him.

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Did you guys meet before or after this comment? hahaha

Glad it was helpful!

My pleasure!

we go into more detail in the new biomechanics video about this stuff.

The best you will associate it with peing direction :)

thanks Mike!

thanks Russ glad you liked it

definitely being aligned with the body against centripetal force is key to skiing dynamic carving. Being twisted and bent in joints when you don't need to be is important. Some bend in certain joints is important though to be able to get the ROM but it's always a fine line of doing just the right amount and no more than required. 😂

@@ReillyMcGlashan Everything sort of changes with centripetal force but then it's important to be center balanced if there is such a term. forces in an Y,Y,Z plane need to be "balanced" It's just not as simple as point em down hill

You are welcome!

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Does G stand for "gravitational force"? What do you mean by C-of-G? Are your abbreviations the same as in the graphic of this video? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hpLovfCazyE.html

I mean centripetal acceleration, but that's normally measured in units of the acceleration due to gravity, whether in F1, a space rocket or skiing. C-of-G means centre of gravity, sometimes known as centre of mass. In some sense it's the average position of the body, and you can keep weight on the outside ski, while leaning in by bending the upper body - which moves your centre of gravity to one side or the other. You horizontal acceleration in towards the centre of the turn, plus the verticle force of gravity, combine to form an arrow. This should point from your centre of gravity towards a point between your feet, ideally closer to the outside foot. All the "inclination/angulation" business is about manipulating the location of your c-of-g and consequent weighting of the ski's in a mechanically strong way when under the G-loading of the skis. hope this is clearer, if a bit physics-y?

@@PB-sk9jn Thank you for clarifying. I appreciate it :)

@@michaelmaier8757 You are very welcome. At some level the (very) minor disagreement I'm raising with Riley is the degree to which "square" is always necessary/desirable. At high-G square is better - stronger body position to resist force, better drive on the outside leg, less need to move the c-of-g with upper body. (think touching your toes on Jupiter with 10G gravity - cracking at the waist might not be wise! We used to be told to incline our pelvis up in the '90s, cue lots of instructor jokes about "pelvic inclination". In a high G turn leaving the weak lower back muscles in the loop is crazy) At lower-G turns, more need to move c-of-g for same edge angle / turn radius, less need to be mechanically strong. Centripetal acceleration is v^2/R Whereas in a perfect carve R is function of edge angle. Depending on "v" and hence how high "G" you pull, you will either need more or less upper body tilt relative to legs to get the right c-of-g placement. Lower speed will require non-square and fold at the waist, higher speeds much more square, and really high speed/G will have very little upper body inclination at all. The amazing thing is we humans do this all quite naturally, but focusing on weight distribution on our feet. Go the monkeys!

At 1:48 you draw another arrow "to the inside" starting from the outside ASIS. At 1:54 you show a range graphic with two arrows. The arrow on the right (of the "rotated zone") starts from the inside ASIS. I would have expected it to start from the outside ASIS as the arrows before (at 1:44 and 1:48), since I understood it to refer to them. Do you refer to something else?

@@michaelmaier8757 drawing 2D lines over a 3D subject is tricky to put across well in a 2D video. It's 90 degrees from the line drawn across the ASIS, so it doesnt matter where the 90 degree line/arrow comes out from, just if that 90 degree line is parallel with the outside ski or not. That is the main point. I hope that clarifies it.

@@ReillyMcGlashan Thanks for your response. To which line of the outside ski do you refer? Tail to tip (T2T)? Edge to edge (E2E)? E2E is parallel to "outside ASISI to inside ASIS", but not to the 90 degree line, which is only perpendicular to E2E and T2T. Did you mean"[it just matters] if that 90 degree line is PERPENDICULAR TO the outside ski" (T2T)?

@@michaelmaier8757 this line is parallel if you were imagining looking from above down onto the top of the skiers head. Does this make sense?

@@ReillyMcGlashan I see. Thank you for clarifying.

you are probably putting extra rotational torque through the spine that you don't really need.

yes that's true... this video is not about when or where each of these three things should happen though. It is just teaching people how to identify all three. That is all.

@@ReillyMcGlashan I think that it would have been much easier to state and say, that at the apex of the turn, the whole torso should face the very same direction that the skis have. How can you expect others to measure these angels if you do not inform about that they must do it at the apex of the turn?

@@JanosKoranyi I'm sorry this 2.5 minute video doesn't live up to your expectations

there were three images side by side... Left, middle or right? I am assuming you mean the left as that was from the last clip shown in this video?

@@ReillyMcGlashan yes, the left

@@peterthomson7064 that was me demonstrating extreme hip counter but I wouldn't recommend anyone ski that way.

@@ReillyMcGlashan totally agree, it was the worst instruction I ever had. To get ski tips inline at the same time was super awkward

@@ReillyMcGlashan Reilly, I got my Canadian Levels about 25yrs ago & haven’t studied their philosophy, nor taught skiing for about 20yrs. Back then, the Canadians were very big proponents of counter rotating, which u say NOT to do. Assuming the CSIA still believes in counter rotation (??) are you saying the Canadian Ski Instructor body is wrong? I suspect not, as u are a big player in the interski stuff. Can u comment? I personally believe in skiing square, with some slight counter in some situations

"Rotation at the hips is weak"... are you referring to internal and external rotations of the femur here?

@@ReillyMcGlashan Yes, hip rotation only affects the femurs. Your example of "hip counter" is actually waist counter because the waist is turned away from the direction of the turn. Hips do not "counter"; they can only rotate laterally or medially, flex or extend, adduct or abduct. The rotators are weak and must obey the bidding of the iliopsoas.

@@ReillyMcGlashan You cannot use the ASIS and PSIS as markers to indicate whether the hips are rotated. Those are parts of the pelvis. The hips are the joints between the pelvis and the femurs. This is why people are confused.

​@@FuStyle321 Yes I know the pelvis technically is in the acetabulum where the femur head sits. I am using a generic term for hips because when you ask people to grab their hips, they grab the pelvis on the side of the ASIS (eg when dancing with a partner and you have to grab their "hips"). I am using this generic unscientific term to help get across a message in a more simple manner. This is for example sake to give people markers on what to look for. Either way if you counter rotate the pelvis (waist) or internally rotate the pelvis while carving (closed chain and the ski is tracking on an arc), this creates internal and external rotations of the femur anyway (depending on inside or outside leg) using the same muscles that you are talking about. In isolation open chain internal and external femoral rotation rotation tests the muscles by themselves are weak like you said, but when it's closed chain and skiing all the other surrounding muscles help and stabilise these movements anyway so the "weakness" in these muscles are negligible. . They are both (pelvis, femoral, or waist or hips, whatever you want to call it) connected and one can't happen without the other in skiing as the direction of the skis will always be a reference and also because of sidecut. Anyway this just to give people visual reference of how I classify square vs countered vs rotated in a simple way the average person can understand.

@@ReillyMcGlashan And I understand that you are using the term "hips" colloquially; but you are asserting yourself as a subject matter expert in a highly technical realm. The pelvis (waist) is not "the hips." Most coaches and ski racing SMEs make the same mistake. If you want to explain technical concepts I reccomend using (and explaining) the correct terminology. How do I find your email address?

This will vary depending on hip range of motion.

@@ReillyMcGlashan Really interesting. It'd be great if you could explain a bit further about how it is depending on hip range of motion.

from a biomechanics standpoint, trying to increase counter acting at the hip joint and increase tipping are two opposing movements and most people reach a point where the outside ski flattens as it has used up the internal range of the femur. Going out to end ranges like that under load in awkward positions is not ideal or strong. Staying square and keeping the pelvis aligned to deal with load is much better, which is kinda the opposite of what PMTS teaches.

Thanks, Reilly, for your reply. Interestingly enough Harb himself does not ski overly counteracted. But his followers do. Makes you wonder….

PMTS is great but the hip counter is definitely overdone for most intermediate skier learning PMTS. Most of the WC free ski with square hip and a bit of counter, not the jacket zippper facing the hill. I didn't know a lot of my troubles came from an excessive hip counter which rotated my legs until I watched Reilly's video about hip dumping in his premium subscription. After doing his running man exercise and skiing more square, in two days, my carving had never felt better!!! It feels so smooth and fluid now...

@@ReillyMcGlashan Hey Reilly, have you considered making a video series about fundamental of skiing for your site? I really like the recent video format of common problems and how to fix compare to Legacy which is more like a movie than down-to-business instruction. Also, more videos of practical exercises to strength different techinque will be nice too.