Yeah at that point you have zero control in a king air.. your just along for the ride.. the king has a massive account of weight out on the wings.. they go to an un recoverable flat spin in a heart beat..
@@skippynj1979 yes, you have to have high altitude and use aerodynamics as your friend to get you out and regain control at some point...otherwise its a freefall
@@casual9982 Ben's reply was to inform Robert, that the 'goober's' actions were not what had caused the stall, but that it was the pilot's fault as to what happened to the aircraft. Do you get it now, genius?
@@benbazy9238 skydiver's fault. You don't overload the tail. They should know better. We had this happen at my dropzone. Big way morons did it to our kodiak.
Back in the early 70s (I think it was '73), our pilot at Z-Hills lost it when I was out on the wheel and wing struts, going into a nose-down dive. It took everything I had to hang on, looking straight down at that whirling prop. I felt that if I'd let go, I'd have fallen straight through that buzzsaw. The (centrifugal, I guess) force mashed me down, bending my knees, and I watched my gloved hands slip slowly off the wing strut. The other jumpers on the lift, who were pinned in a corner of the cabin, said later they saw the skin of my face deform and peel back from my teeth. I didn't let go because I really felt I'd fall through the prop in that nose-down attitude. The pilot finally recovered, I virtually fell back into the cabin, we got straightened out and made the jump, doing a 4-man star in freefall. The next day I felt like I had been beaten all over my body with a baseball bat!
To be honest I think if you let go you would have gone backwards instead of down, however your next worry would have been striking the tail at a speed that most certainly would have meant death
@@mtblake1249 Possibly ("gone backwards"), but I didn't want to take that chance! I didn't even think of hitting the tail if I'd have let go. We were diving straight nose-down in a spin, that whirling prop looked mighty close, and I was slowly loosing my grip. It was a pretty scary experience.
The other problem is the fact that Walter Beech in his wildest drunken fantasies never designed the King Air for skydiving. Given the operating costs, tiny door, high jump speed, high stall speed, prop blast, low tail, and weight penalty of unused pressurization gear. It blows my mind that ANY drop zone still flies King Airs given the abundance of PACs, Porters, Caravans, etc.
The FAA / NTSB usually only investigate when an incident is reported to them, which i doubt happened in this case (given the pilot recovered from the spin). But i believe the skydivers could still file a civil lawsuit for negligent infliction of emotional distress, which could possibly cause the FAA to look into it. But i think it's quite unlikely that this got reported. Edit: I just rewatched the video, and toward the end you can see the pilot recovering and pulling out from the dive. Edit 2: the uploader stated that "this wasn't the first or last time this happened" in the description. If this is a repeated occurence with this pilot, maybe it did get reported. Who knows.
@@acbulgin2 you can even see one of the skydivers fly out after the recovery. very gnarly. it's the same for me tho, i've been a pilot for many years, but except for emrgency parachutes i do not have a lot of knowledge on the topic. However, i know that for a lot of skydivers the reverse is true: they have lots of knowledge about parachuting and little knowledge about planes. I know a few guys that fly skydivers and drop them off and they've also told me, that especially due to the low speeds at dropoff you have to be careful that not all skydivers move to the back at once, which they usually try to prevent through means of a pre-flight safety briefing. The pilot, in my opinion, MUST assume that the skydivers are not aware of the consequences of shifting the weight backwards and it is therefore the duty of the pilot to warn them about that. Whether this happened and the skydivers ignored it is up for discussion. another thing i've been thinking about is the unfortunate placement of the exit door. In most planes i've seen used for skydiving (mainly cessna caravans and pilatus PC-6) the door is located toward the center of the fuselage. Due to the low wings that's unfortunately not possible on this aircraft - one more reason for a thorough safety briefing.
Meh. Let's talk about this scenario. Obviously this was a large RW formation getting prepped in the doorway. Now if the jumpers notified the pilot of their intention to launch a 12 way RW formation after spotting...then the pilot should have increased his airspeed for the jump run. What happened was as soon as those folks shifted their weight to the rear of the aircraft and it altered the center of gravity for the aircraft making it become an unstable platform. Yes...he did recover quite nicely...but if he had increased his airspeed a bit, this probably wouldn't have happened in the first place.
@@HaloJumpmaster Absolutely a good recovery. But, bad piloting to get himself into that situation to begin with. Seems like he forget about the additional drag on that side of the plane. In this case, the pilot appears to attempt to maintain straight and level flight without enough power to the point it caused the same result as a low wing stall. Pilot should have known better. Recovery could've been a lot cleaner too. But, any recovery is a great recovery.
Both kingairs stalled for the exact same reason, too many people at the rear throwing off the center of gravity. The “load organizer” telling everyone to slide to back at the same time should have known better, glad everyone made it out safely.
@@devioux4082 100% true. They also reduce power to the left engine for added safety, and yaw right to compensate. That's why it rolled left after stalling in both cases.
This exact aircraft crashed a few years later killing all 11 people on board in Hawaii. On one of these flights shown here (maybe it was THIS flight - happened in California) it lost parts of its elevators but was able to land. Crazy! Check NTSB and other sources.
Jump planes are compromised due to the big open exit hole in side of the aircraft. Then they slow down and may even pull the throttle back on the jump side so that the slipstream is not as bad for the waiting jumpers. Additionally, the plane may well be overloaded with jumpers and their gear packed inside. Stalls happen, but are almost all recoverable given the altitude at which the jumpers usually get out.
Not to mention the pilot has to compensate with the rudder for throttling back the door side prop just to keep it straight down jump run. I've thought about jumping out of Bay Area skydiving because it's closer to me but now I've got seconds thoughts lol. I'll stick to Taft for now.
@@gouda2872 the one and only time I ever jumped was outta Byron. Everything went great - it was an awesome experience. That was hella years ago but I still get juiced whenever I tell someone the story..
"Additionally, the plane may well be overloaded with jumpers and their gear packed inside" totally false, weight (with fuel) is calculated so this never happens and there's always a margin. For example my DZ can load 20 in our Cessna Grand Caravan but we never do that 18 is always the max.
This is how pilot flying the plane gets to have some skydiving fun with the rest of everyone 😀 To be serious though: when I saw the wing with flaps out (flying slow, not too far from stall speed), then the instructor calls out "start sliding down everybody" I knew what's gonna happen. Plane not only stalls but starts to spin due to CG so far back. What's worse - people tumbling in a spinning airplane cannot really walk back to their seats even if they realize wtf just happened and what caused it. Those at the tail near the door are best jumping off ASAP to lighten the tail. Seems like the pilot managed to pull it out of the spin and noone went through the props, so I hope everyone learned from this and had some fun during this after all :-)
And with flaps extended you don't get closer to Vs as this speed decreases as well. It was an intentional spin most probably. After watched another similar video after that one, maybe even the same aircraft, you can clearly see the initiation of spin induced by the pilot
For the love of god, when will these so called jump masters realise when you move 6 people to the aft of the plane you move the centre of balance of the aircraft. Both the pilot and jumpers failed to communicate.
I don't think a lot of people realise how fine certain tolerances are with small planes operating slow and close to the stall. But it doesn't take much overweight, hot and high, ice on the wings, wrong CofG etc etc, as you discover if you study small plane accidents. It worked before, and it got them up there, so they think it's a great big machine that just flies, just because.
This pilot was still training and not cleared to solo in this plane by the primary pilot training him. The Drop zone owner was desperate for a pilot one weekend and called the pilot in training in to fly loads. This is what happens when dropzone owners seek profits over safety. This aircraft was later sold to a place in Hawaii where it lost an engine on take off and killed all 9 onboard. Kingairs make nice jump ships but need to be flown faster on jump run and jumpers shouldn't crowd the tail
Wow, close one. Would you be okay with me featuring this in an episode of Weekly Dose of Aviation? Of course you will be credited both in the video and in the description.
I recall that the one weekend I didn't go to Sibson Airfield (UK), the Pilatus PC6 crashed due to structural failure. When the ailerons dropped off mid-flight, Paulie (the pilot) turned to the jumpers in the back and found he was talking to an empty aircraft. The jumpers saw the problem and bailed out immediately. There were skydivers dropping in all over the local village, which was a bit of a surprise to the locals that were out shopping. Paulie picked a field to land in but as he approached, saw a football match was underway on the field. He pulled back on the stick to abort, but lost the balance and cartwheeled into the ground. Thankfully the Paulie survived the crash with a few bruises. The parachute centre went on to buy a skyvan instead.
Good move, PC6 isn’t designed for larger volumes of passengers like the skyvan is, much wiser purchase from both a pilot and jumper 👌🏽 I like the PC6, don’t get me wrong, nice fun aircraft, but high maintenance, especially when used to the max and overloaded
@@patrickswayze2596 I agree, the skyvan was a good move. The accident report showed that the PC6 was being over-stressed when it returned to the ground after dropping the load. They were diving down too quickly which meant there was added load on the airframe and the aircraft was not getting serviced as often as it should have been. They were stretching the limits of what was permissible under the CAA's and manufacturer's specifications. This led to a failure that could have been avoided, but would have put the aircraft out of operation when it was most busy. I was shocked when I arrived at the airfield the week afterwards and found the PC-6 stuffed in a corner of a hangar in pieces. It was badly beaten by the crash and I was surprised that Paulie survived it.
This is the third video I find of this exact kind of issue happening. I believe it’s a combination of the change of the CG and the airstream on the left wing due to the jumpers being outside and altering it. If you watch closely, it’s that wing the one that stalls first, causing the plane to roll to the left. The exact same thing happens on the other 2 videos I’ve seen.
That's one way to look at it. I would speculate that at a more fundamental level it's a combination of disregard for safety in general in skydiving circles (jumpmasters who should not be), improper aircraft types being used, and pilots somehow not being alert to their flying configuration at a critical moment because they have "done it before" without dying. There is a constant marketing of the supposed safety in skydiving, but if you as a beginner believe in it and pay large sums of money to participate you are still only rolling the die because you do not know what kind of people are or aren't responsible for your survival. A 'sport' that probably shouldn't be, imo.
This stall was not due to pilot error, this was caused by to many people sliding down towards the tail and shifting the majority of the weight to rear behind the wings. The “Load Organizer” made a mistake by telling everyone to slide back, he should have known better.
I've never piloted a plane but let me act like an expert too. Ahem - pilots fault. He should compensated for the Cornelius effect by pulling the aft rudder at the time of the dismount.
So, there was also another incident of a plane stalling recently a few days ago (5th Nov 2021) almost hitting the skydivers that went viral. Seems like a common occurrence huh
This one is so similar that I thought it was the same incident from a different skydiver camera. I had to check the aircraft number to realise this is another one.
Well the jump master and everyone else in the aircraft haven't been properly briefed. You don't ever have a group all clamber into the door and have the rest of the load slide to the tail of the aircraft. Whenever we had a whole load exit in one group, the lead would get in the door and exit and the rest would then rush towards the door and follow. This is obviously to keep from getting the aircraft tail heavy and stalling.
@@zabamaz103 facepalm, an old movie as a reference?? probably the only plus for the King Air is its climb performance . Best is complete BS, there are quite a few better all around jump planes. The best one however is always the one you actually have.
So all the guys shift the cg to the rear, pilot has flaps down quite a bit, hang outside the plane slowing it down even more, then all jump at once throwing the cg way forward in an instant. What could go wrong
It is not an incident, it is a completely normal manoeuver, it is made by pilot to go back to the ground faster to reduce the delay and the cost between drop.
Literally just watched a video of a stall almost exactly like this happening to another king air in couth Africa, crazy stuff, glad it looks like everyone got out fine.
The fact that the poster claims, this wasn't the first or last time this happened makes me question the wisdom of the pilot and the jumpmaster. Looks like this is one of those places where someone will have to lose a limb or their life before anyone takes real notice.
I don't think this is the DZ in Byron.. it's not green there, more of a brown color. and also they have a 900 HP Super caravan, not a king air.... so i think they for the wrong DZ in the description... also that plane in question crashed in hawaii in 2019.. just look up the tail number and you can see its not even around any more
For some reason they are training the sky dive pilots on the king air to pull power on the left prop and adjusting the prop speed.. add in flaps and rear aft center of gravity and your asking for a bad situation... I know the STC specifically bans more than 2 jumpers at the door. I believe the weight limit was 400 or 500 but it's been about 8 years since I last flew them.
It seems that twin engine aircraft aren’t best suited for skydiving due to the pilot having to purposely reduce power on the side the skydivers jump from and their presence spoiling the airflow over the control surfaces.
For those wondering what happened here is a link to the video of the most recent sky dive plane stalling, and it has a comment from the pilot of that plane, as well as a link to a facebook post on it, detailing what happened. Given that this also looks like a King Air C 90 it's likely the conditions of the stall were the same. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7nZHZFo29k4.html
NOT Pilot error in my opinion,(mostly). The Chick in frame with the inverted A/C pictured perfectly, should put 10 frame by frame prints on her lounge wall for the ultimate Holy Moly bragging story "I did this when I was young"! Oh, and not flyin' an armchair btw. If you have NOT studied the principals of flight AND PILOTED an A/C(AND Skydived!), DO NOT bother us with your "expert" opinion.
This is why I correct folks who make fun of skydivers "Why would you jump out of a perfectly good airplane?" Um, these planes are designed for VERY short flights - skydiving only. They are not given the budget most planes would get. So trust me, you WANT to not be in these planes for any longer than you need be. Also it stalled because they loaded the back. WRONG. You load from the front first.
First week in a city in northern England. I saw a crowd of people by the road. As I passed I realised they were watching the emergency teams scraping people out of a bad crash. At the time I thought it was bad taste. A few years later , late at night on RU-vid and I’m pulling up a seat.
i am ignorant about planes but...is it a Beechcraft King Air ? If so, can it be a problem for a plane of such sizes that all skydivers went rapidly to the back of the plane ?
This seems like a major weight and balance issue due to everyone shifting to the rear of the aircraft. Also, damn dude! When I clicked on this, I didn't even realize it was your video! Crazy stuff. Glad nothing happened to you on this botched jump... 🤘🏻
If you want to know which of the people commenting do not have pilots licenses or have never gone through flight training , its the ones blaming the skydivers for that stall.
The moment that asshole said "everybody start coming down" I was thinking "the fuck...NO, you absolutely do NOT do that". Jumpers in the front, not being part of the group might get the idea to also move back thus fucking up the plane's balance . If added to that for some reason the pilot's air speed isn't enough then that's a recipe for disaster. That load master really made a mistake when he was that.
I bet the pilot didn't even realize until he/she looked at this video that he was holding full right aileron during the whole spin sequence - which only exacerbated the spin. It takes an almost unattainable amount of self-discipline to let go of the yoke when entering an unexpected spin.
We intentionally leave the good people at the front of the plane since they can run out after we are gone and still get to the formation leaving almost a full 5-7 seconds later. Never rear load the plane that heavy.
Pretty sure that is the King Air that already had a bent wing from an earlier incident. Totally sketchy operation, skydivers lucky to survive that unplanned maneuver.
Too many people were forming on the outside of the same door. The shift in weight, low speed, and new drag would cause the plane to do aileron rolls. It did just that.
Why do I get the feeling that there simply aren't rehearsals involving pilot, jumpmaster and moving payload at these clubs and companies selling parachuting as an adventurous hobby? It seems it's always about senior skydivers getting their own jump costs sponsored by "students" and likewise pilots getting their flight time sponsored and any form of preparation that involves actual flying is out of the question because of cost.
Too many moved to the rear at once. This moved the center of gravity to behind the wings, bringing the nose up, initiating the stall. The man calling everyone to the rear of the aircraft is to blame.
Neither, this can happen and no one needs to be at fault. No one has ever died from an incident like this, and they do happen every now and then. This is basically as low risk at skydiving gets. Jumping out of the plane in the first place is more dangerous then the stall spin. You're infinitely more likely to die from chute failure then that aircraft stall spinning.
