Skyrim - Did the Dark Elves deserve to be invaded by the Argonians? - Elder Scrolls Lore Discussion 

The best rules.

@@nelothmasterwizardofhouset7266 Hey Nelototh, make me Hortator

@@cazikman NO, make me Hortator!

@@nelothmasterwizardofhouset7266 Make me a tea

**Argonian Kills master with magic** Telvanni: I see you have some talent, would you be interested in a *recently* available Shroom tower?

. Fun times. My first character in Morrowind was an argonian n

Thanks for validating my current Morrowind playthrough lol

Scaled N’wahs

LOL, I absolutely love the way you think. I had never thought about it like that before, but that’s genuinely amazing hahahaha 😂😂😂🤣🤣

I loved that in skyrim, The Nords disdain for the Argonians, and me There Lizard hero, thane of all there holds and the most powerful person in the country.

While I do broadly agree with you, the Ayleids enslavement of the Nedic humans was drastically different, as they engaged in ritual blood sacrifices and cannibalism of their slaves. That isn't a justification that the Dunmer SHOULD be engaging in the practice, but simply a statement that putting it on the same level as what the Ayleids did is somewhat inaccurate. Dunmer slavery also wasn't EXCLUSIVELY racially motivated, as they did have slaves of other races, even their own. There are numerous Dunmer slaves in Elder Scrolls 3, and while they're certainly less numerous than the Argonian or Khajiit ones, it is still a practice.

@@Jenn-lq9yu I think the problem here is that slavery as an insitution is inherently immoral no matter how it is spun. And violent revolution has been the historic precident for how slaves have set themselves free throughout history. Both in Tamriel and our own World. If someone's boot is on your neck choking you, you shouldn't be expected to peacefully remove this boot from your neck if the person standing on you has no interest in setting you free.

@@yeetthatmolotov to be sure, that's one hundred percent true that slavery as an institution is always immoral and unjustifiable, my base point was that there are still deeper levels of immorality within that which the Ayleids reached that the Dunmer never did. Thus the original poster's comment comparing the Ayleid enslavement of the Nedic humans to the Dunmer enslavement of the Argonians isn't quite accurate. What the Ayleids did was -far- worse than anything the Dunmer ever did to the Argonians. The Ayleids would ritually sacrifice Nedes, they'd rip out children's hearts and offer them to the Daedra, they would literally turn people into flesh sculptures by flaying their skin and reshaping their bodies. That's a level of depravity well beyond what the Dunmer ever did. Thus saying that Alessia's revolt is the same as the Argonians' isn't quite accurate.

Seriously, nearly all Dumner were at least complacent in the enslavement of argonians and benefited from the labor they provided. Fuck em.

@@Remy-q7b your argument is incoherent and not even remotely based upon what I've actually said. I have at every turn said Slavery is bad period, but the Ayleid version was worse than the Dunmer version. I also don't know if I would actually agree that the Dwemer version was worse than the Ayleid version... yes, devolving the Falmer was pretty messed up but there's still a significant difference between that and ritually sacrificing people and turning them into flesh sculptures. There are in fact degrees of messed up. I think the Ayleids hit the deepest one possible.

Imo The Argonians did nothing wrong. Slavery will always have terrible consequences and The Dark Elves learned that the hard way. TL:Dr:You reap what you sow.

Also the snow elves tried to kill all the atmoran refugees and failed only in killing ysgramor and his two sons. He then left for atmora and came back with an army to take revenge on the snow elves. It was an eye for an eye situation. Even if it wasn’t completely moral, it is undeniably a justified act.

For Ysgramor, while I do think the pain and anger he felt at the destruction of Sarthaal and the death of his son were genuine, I'm fairly certain his overall motivations were more than mere revenge. Considering his former home Atmora was in the midst of a bloody civil war as well as a gradual deep freeze, it seems more likely that his main motivations were to claim a new home for his people more quickly than merely assimilating peacefully with any locals that were already there. The attack on Sarthaal was the justification he used to convince his countrymen (and likely himself) that such actions were necessary and just. And anyone who's really looked into the Atmorans' conquest of Skyrim will know that this was not as simple as rolling in and killing elven warriors. This was a BRUTAL process. Men, women and children alike were slaughtered and even *enslaved*. The walls that protect Windhelm? Build by Snow Elf slaves. Ultimately, the 500's rampages across Skyrim and Solstheim drove the remaining Snow Elves underground to seek the "protection" of the dwarves. I think we all know how that turned out. There's seeking retribution, and then there's the systematic genocide of an entire race, and the conquest of the region they called home. The Snow Elves' actions during the Night of Tears were brutal and unjustifiable (at least as far was we know), but I don't think their crime was equal to the punishment they ultimately got.

different races have different perspectives. Also a lot more than a few and Ysgramor is known as a hero by Men while a genocidal maniac by Mer.

@@jackagonis9302 Dude Ysgramor committed mass Genocide for the sacking of one city. 7 generations later his decendants are STILL racist against Elves.

The prideful fall.

Understandable have a nice day

Only 1 reply?

Camels don't wear pants?

I shat your pants too

Optimal play by the lizard folk

Absolutely fuckin based. In the immortal words of ContraPoints: "Do you believe you can purchase acceptance through conformity? That is not true freedom, Tiffany; that is merely adding another cell to the prison." Certainly not all Dunmer deserve what happened to them, but the Dunmeri government did. They played with fire and they were burned, they blamed the fire.

👏

House Telvanni is debatable.

Stolen joke.

Hippity hoppity both telvani and dres are bitches

Hippity hoppity red mountain went poppity

Squats Forever You mean rotting in the Riften jail for a crime you didn’t commit? Sure sounds great 👌🏻

@@elliesophiaxx it would be better then actually going outside

mate, have you even seen that video where brand-shei full on executes a guy combat-x style over an axe?

@@razzlebackdraft8201 I had a playthrough where he took out a woman over a book.

@@elliesophiaxx ? When did he go to jail ???

Geralt of Rivia fUck those guys

Zurin Arctus i dont care thei are fucking evil

Zurin Arctus Exactly.

Zurin Arctus no I said i dont care who the thalmor are and that tey are evil

The altmer aren't evil, they're just very, very salty about the invasion of Summerset by Tiber Septim, and they empathize with the various groups of elves who've been genocided by humans. The Thalmor are ruthless but they're not without justification, and the empire is actually just as ruthless as them. When you read on the Empire's methods...

Honestly listening to the lore it's like most of the dunmers problems are caused by themselves

@Lord Admiral Spire Anyone who’s played Morrowind should understand that slavery was seen as an essential aspect of Dunmer culture. Sure, not all Dunmer could afford slaves, but almost all Dunmer, bar a few like certain members of the Twin Lamps, felt they had a legal right to own slaves regardless of that. This isn’t a minority thing at all.

@Lord Admiral Spire Oh don't worry, it doesn't. However, due to the nature of slavery in Morrowind, you must understand that any consequences the Dunmer faced would have had to be faced as a people, not on an individual basis.

@@caconutnuts if most of the dunmer did not know what it was to own slaves, then they are just saying that. Also having played morrowind, slaves were only really seen in the telvanni district, they were rare in other parts. Most dunmer did not have experience owning slaves and just felt it was their right just because.

@@waluigi3515 1. Your point about much of the Dunmer population not owning slaves, therefore not being culpable in perpetuating slavery, isn’t convincing at all. Every Dunmer, with very few exceptions, at best saw abolition as an Imperial plot, and at worst felt pride in the institution. Saying they were “just saying it” doesn’t mean anything as a defence, because you’re basically denying or at least minimizing what they themselves are admitting to-supporting slavery as a part of their heritage and culture. Your argument makes no sense. 2. The biggest slave plantations on Vvardenfell were in Hlaalu territory. House Dres is said in-lore to depend heavily on slavery. This isn’t a just House Telvanni. Slavery was the norm in and an important part of Dunmer society, and if you don’t think the game made that pretty clear, then you should go over many of the lines of the average Dunmer in-game.

@@caconutnuts your first counterargument dismisses the fact that many dunmer, such as in the redoran district, have in game dialogue when taking about the abolitionists, they state this (something along the lines, it is not the exact statement): "I am not saying I am against the abolitionists, no one I know owns slaves, but it is dunmer law that we can own slaves". This suggests that they don't not fully support slavery as you think they do, because this is ingame dialogue you can have with an average dunmer citizen, as when I played morrowind I remember having dialogue of something along these lines when in Vivec. So you are thinking the dunmer population in general are much more for it then they are. And your second counterargument, I said that slavery was _rare_ in otherparts, not that it wasn't around. Most citizens of hlaalu are in cities, only rich families own farms for the most part. And once again, it is _ingame dialogue_ that it is supposed to be rare in other districts. Tho, I'll admit I was wrong about only telvanni having slaves commonly found, House Dres does depend on slaves the most lorewise so I'll give you thatm

Negative influence? They were protecting physical territory against dragons and new threats. Southern morrowind was likely northern blackmarsh all along.

The Hist did nothing wrong. Seriously, I think that the rise of the An-Xihleel is not part of any hist plan, but a side effect of the drastic measures they took to handle the Oblivion crisis. My guess is that when they discover that the combination of lots of argonian battle monsters and a mountain of daedric arms, created fertile soil for a genocidal conquest political movement, they will intervene to chill their lizzies down. It's just that the Hist live in a slower time scale and their primary feedback is digesting the life experiences of dead and buried argonians. So ... that may take a couple of decades.

nah, the an xileel are a lot like an actual reactionary political faction. they did it because they got tired of being slaves and letting their brothers and sisters be slaves

nah, the an xileel are a lot like an actual reactionary political faction. they did it because they got tired of being slaves lol

You are the definition of the phrase "Never before have I been so offended by something I 100% agree with."

IronGrizzlyBear well to a sertenten point it was justified but then it got heckdit couseing falmer and the fact that the dwemer disappeared what left of them can't be reversed yet

I agree but towards the end of the Nord's campaign they had the Falmer of the run, what i want to know is if the nords hunting down the Falmer and actively chasing them to the ends of skyrim was justified. Had they simply fought the Falmer to a point where the Falmer couldn't fight back, but still sustain a stable population, I think that would have been justifiable.

A war was justified but the Atomoren (Nord ancestors) probably went to far, though it is impossible to tell if actual extinction was intended as the birthrates of the elvish races and human are very different. But what done is done, the snow elves degenerated into blind goblins when betrayed by the Dwarves and the Atmorens won land that would later become Skyrim

It wasn't really justified destroying them comply they could of keeped a town of them it would make the story of the elder scrolls could of been very different

Falmer killed off a nordic settlement in fear of them misussing the eye of magnus(not out of fear of the nords getting children quickly, this is what the winterhold questline brings to the lore). And the nords killed off AN ENTIRE RACE, the rest got changed into monsters by the dwemer... nords definetly went too far.

ghostprick i would’ve killed the first person who thought of touching me

@@Vencidious that's easy to say having lived a normal life. People never understand how a slave could continue to live like that but forget that's all they've ever known. Those who did resist either had limbs removed were beaten or branded to be watched further. Sometimes they even had whatever family they had killed in front of them or we're killed themselves. Try to say you'll resist when they have the person you love most with a dagger to their throat

chandler gensel I hate dunmer, and each and every day they get dumber. And also, I made sure, idc if the law pursued me, if I saw any slave thingy (slavers, slave auctions) I would kill every dark elf there, and now I know why they are called dark elves: their hearts are too dark.

chandler gensel also have you heard of Ja-Reet

@@Vencidious Actually they are called that because their skin was turned gray from a curse.

agreed we need more info what i do know is altmer also keep slave and thalmor had some part in the invasion the twin lamp likely got bigger after the degree and help from both hlaalu and empire in dres land it likely the argonian were getting intel from the abolitionists so why would they kill them too

We don't have a lot to go by due to the scarcity of information. However, the widespread massacre of Dunmer civilians certainly wouldn't be uncharacteristic of the An-Xileel Argonians. We're talking about people who went out of their way to attack Solstheim, populated by half-starved refugees, just to "wreak havoc". On Helseth, I agree. While he banned slavery, there's virtually no mention of him building relations between Morrowind and Black Marsh.

You have to keep in mind, the Argonian attack was led by religious zealots and hordes of Argonians basically mind controlled into a psychotic rage by the Hist; there was no logical thought on where they attacked or who they killed, they simply went on a murdering rampage across southern to central Morrowind. Of course, when the lizards finally met armed Redoran resistance, it became clear that the savages and their stone weapons were only good for murdering defenseless women and children, and could do little against a fully armed and armored Mer determined to stop them in their tracks, and the argonian assault became as waves against a sheer cliff face, breaking upon the solid rock of Redoran's disciplined formations, until they were pushed back into the mud whence they came, and almost all of what Morrowind lost was reclaimed.

@@viysnjor4811 Spoken like a truly based Dunmer.

I agree with u

it was to hard as it left both morrowind black marsh skyrim unable to reform the pact to protect it self from real threats like the dominion

You have the Dunmer to blame for that, not the Argonians. Damn Elves.

Where do people get the idea that the Argonians slaughtered the dunmer en mass?They sacked Mournhold, they viciously attacked house Telvanni and House Dres and then went back to Black Marsh. Infact now Morrowind and the Dunmer are recovering.

@@durshurrikun150 They're still occupying basically everything south of Mournhold, actually. What's left of Vvardenfell and northern mainland Morrowind are recovering, slowly (it's been like 195 years, now), but the Argonians are still there, still killing any dunmer they find in their holdings, in basically a cold war with House Redorran. But this might be a problem of the Fourth Era being 200 years long, so far. All the events are so far spread out, and it feels like the effects are either so slow or just don't exist. It has no sense of time or impact.

@@ElectromagNick Wrong. The Argonians were defeated and driven off southern Morrowind. There are just skirmishes on the border between the two provinces.

I mean. The An-Xileel aren't that bad and besides, the Hist is above them anyway

@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231 slaughtering half a nation is not bad... Yeah sure. The Hist maybe controlling them, but they are willing participants.

Tao 타키오 slaughtering? It was revenge for what they did to them

@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231 revenge or not. It's still that bad. Slavery has been outlawed for centuries, and while I understand the argonian plight, wiping out the entire nation I more than simple revenge. And the Anxileel are as xenophobic as the Thalmor to the rest of Tamriel.

Redoran: Am I a joke to you?

it bad what they did but also ironic just as they had hatred for us we have hatred for the aedra worshiping altmer and the argonian have fallen into there plans and with no dunmer army to fight the dominion of the they will ether die free or be slaves again this time forced to abandon there god trees or see them burn and if empire win same apply both aedra worshiper and hate deadra and pagan gods

Acherontic Arts Could not have said that better.

This sumarise it very well for one dunmer mught have seen more than 3-5 generations of slaves across his life time and some of those slaves to be the children of the first slaves, yeah the possible hatred in them would be immerse for their grand parents have worked to the same being and now he or she. Unfortunatly Dunmer got to be the face of Argonians hatred and symbol of near milenia or strife and pain, when they were weak they got bounced.

Elves may not be immortal in the Elder Scrolls universe, but they do live for centuries. It's entirely possible that many of those wealthy slave owners had been around since the beginning of the slave trade and thus owned multiple generations worth of slaves throughout the ages!

Yah the little children killed in Thier mother's arms by blood crazed lizards pffffft....cowards didn't do anything until after the Dunmer got blown up by a 🌋...then came to scavenge the bones and who suffered the common people pffffft lizards yummy on a Spit

My thoughts exactly

Yep

yeah but genocide still isn't a good way to improve your foreign relations, making yourself only bigger a threath and target. It is selfish to retaliate a long running offense to your people, it is foolish to make enemies bigger than you, putting your people in danger.

Are you so far gone into this fictional world that you consider a lore youtuber as a historian? Dude....take your pills.

"game historian"? it's not as serious as a professional IRL historian but this guy still definitively has much more insight of the game lore and their maps than many, one to refer to when it's about the game's history (hence why "historian")

In this case it would've been better "a thief steals a lot of your money, years pass, the thief has children and grandchildren that learn to abhorr their grand's crimes, then family tragedy after family tragedy happens which brings that family in peril only to then have your grandchildren beat up those of the thief's family and steal all their belongings". It's a shame that only the dunmer have means to talk with their ancestors while argonians only bred hatred within their families, a single level headed argonian ancestor could've helped in preventing the genocidal campaign, with only the thick-headed dunmer ancestors still sticking around and causing quarrel in their own houses.

@@cdgonepotatoes4219 honestly I'd say its more, "thief takes everything you have, you and your whole family are called stupid and ignored in society while the thief keeps coming back and taking your stuff, this happens for generations until your descendants beat the shit our of the the descendant of the thieves who also partook in stealing from you"

@@danielshore1457 I feel like I got caught by some unreliable narrators... but I guess that's what makes me like this world: "" You can't make an abridged version of everything in it, or at least you need to make multiple abridged versions each taking the view of conflicting characters who all believe they're right. There's no 'third better option'. "" I was quick to trust every single Dunmer upheld the Ebonheart Pact's "don't enslave lizards" even after all this time and who knows if they even had the power or will to enforce that between houses when they're too busy bickering over other things.

then acts surprised when they wake up as an enslaved tributary state to the Third Thalmor Dominion.

@@Maxibon2007 I doubt the elves will gain a foothold in Argonia as no Empire ever really managed to conquer them. And the Elves have a track record of underestimating enemies. I think the Thalmor would invade Argonia self assured and be slaughtered whole sale by the Argonians, as well as the WIldlife, Plants and Diseases in the Heart of Argonia. Another point to consider in this is that what Interest would the Thalmor have in a dingy swamp inhabited by in their mind "primitive tree hugging savages"

@@Maxibon2007 What Thalmer is brave enough to step foot in Black Marsh?

@@Maxibon2007 Bro, it's been established in ES5 through books that Argonia is now a powerhouse that not even the Thalmor would want to challenge. They would most likely die from the diseases. There's a reason why the Dunmer never got slaves in Black Marsh but only on the borders.

Woke culture defending genozide...

@@etetepete the Argonians waged a retaliatory war against a people who viewed them as worthless animals to be murdered or enslaved and you want to come in here and defend them? "Oh the victims of countless raids, massacres, and occupations that led to their brutal subjugation are fighting back? Aren't you just as bad as the evil supremacist empire for cheering their victims on as they carve their way through them?" No. However, if you think my original comment is evil, just wait until you hear about the Haitian Revolution. It was glorious.

@@faffywhosmilesatdeath5953 Declaring a genozidal war is evil. Theres no way around. No matter the history.

@@etetepete yeah, you keep on peddling that "both sides" garbage.

Well said.

Happy Birthday!

FudgeMuppet thank you! You guys are awesome!

Happy birthday

Hope your birthday keeps getting better and will only be topped by each birthday to come. Maybe Ill get a dunmer vid on mine as well.... Aug 24th.... another friday... lol But really, hope your birthday is full of great times and memorable moments.

Birthday. Happy. You. To.

Jay except the children. The Dunmer children did nothing wrong and were powerless to do anything about the slavery

You're just a peasant living a meek life, and praying to the three good Deadra that your crops won't fail to produce. You have a family, a shack, and some rags on your back. You go to town one day and see a Telvani wizard get attacked by an assassin. With the flick of his wrist the wizard turns said assassin into liquid shit. Tell me. Would you have the balls to go after the wizard let alone the entire house with farming tools? There's no Democracy or any peaceful means to do what you're suggesting in the world of the Elder Scrolls. It's a land of might makes right.

@@logancaine9616 agreed there on might makes right.

What the hell is an ordinary civilian supposed to do against a master wizard of house Telvanni? If he went up to the wizard and said that slavery is wrong what do you expect to happen? The wizard telling him to f*ck off at best and magically blasting the civilian to death at worst. Think before you damn speak

@@marielenapotts848 The problem is that it is not "an ordinary civilian". The entire Dunmer society was sustained by the use of slaves, and that enabled them to avoid field work. Only a few Dunmer worked in the fields. So the reality is that the Dunmers did not complain about slavery because they benefited from it. Not because they didn't have the tools to stop that. It is for this reason that the thief's analogy does not work, since the correct analogy is: "there are thieves, and their relatives and neighbors benefit from what the thief steals. So they prefer to remain silent to continue enjoying what was stolen."

Yes... yes, he is... that 'flute' is more akin to what we would call a recorder (in earth terms) which could easily be played through cloth covering the mouth. Our modern flute, played by blowing breath over rather than through the wind hole, could not be played in such a fashion or would create an unusual challenge.

phatbassanchor You can do that with recorders? I had no idea. I am aware it resembles a recorder more but they call it a flute in-game.

How do dudes without lips even play a wind instrument at all?

Thank you Jesus.

Amen to that.

?

Don’t you mean- (sigh)forget it... This is why I hate Christianity but not people

Doing these great video's takes alot of time and efforts.

Plenty of the Dunmer killed didnt have slaves and many of them probably saw slavery as immoral

@@michaela2634 Dumner "morality" as a concept is one big grey area at best. So it's entirely possible that slavery was not viewed as right or wrong, but instead just a fact of life. That's how it was for thousands of years human history at any rate. Plot twist: Humans were the most evil race all along

@@michaela2634 A lot of those "innocent" Dunmer were still complicit as bystandards to Argonian oppression. Not all of them deserved to die, but they are reasonable casualties.

@@michaela2634 and yet much like the Empire, those so called innocent dunmer did absolutely nothing about it. Fuck them

That's because you're a filthy N'wha, also imperial swine probably.

i doubt a mer slave would be all that useful in black marsh

I've never thought of it that way but it makes sense seeing how intrinsically tied Morrowind's economy is to slavery

Does any nation really *deserve* to be enslaved?

@@StefanyDjuba this is a 3 year old comment...on a 3 year old video. How did you even find this? Ah well, nobody really deserves to have anything bad happen to them, but the world is a cruel place. The mark of true civilization is to be able to move on and forgive those who have wronged us. However, whether in games or real life, we're a very spiteful and hate filled species. Thus the circle of violence begins again. The old generation of oppressed giving rise to a new generation of oppressors, the old generation of oppressor falling to become a new generation of oppressed, and thus is born the phrase that fallout touts "War never changes".

@@clericofchaos1 I mean, the comments didn't disappear and neither did the video, not sure what's your confusion. I don't really buy into the forgive and forget thing. A good civilization protects its people, and that's what the argonians did. I think it's a little absurd to demand them to be forgiving when the dunmer weren't willing to be forgiving at all.

@@StefanyDjuba I mean, if you read the original comment, i didn't demand anything of them nor did i in anyway condemn their actions. On the contrary, i said "they had enough of a justification to rally the troops". Nor did i ever to say to forgive AND forget. You should be willing to forgive but you should never forget, lest history repeat itself. I was just pointing out that an eye-for-an-eye leaves everybody blind. It's very easy to hate. You can come up with an infinite number of reasons to hate other people, all of which make perfect sense to you. Whether they make sense to the rest of the world isn't your problem. Which is why there are people out there that hate others for stupid reasons like the color of their skin, or for some other nonsense like not being vaccinated. On the other hand, it's very hard to forgive. Which is why Christians are really the only ones capable of it. We're a peculiar people set aside from the world.

@@clericofchaos1 when I talked about demanding and condemning their actions I was talking about the point they made in the video, which I thought your comment was agreeing on

Not to mention how alessia and pelinal are seen as heroes, how is what the argonians did any different?

@@danielshore1457 Both the Argonian and the alessian slave rebellion are good, is this too difficult to grasp?

@@danielshore1457 the ayleids were monsters that deserved everything that happened to them

Loreshelter well I'm black so that explains my bias, thou that doesn't really make it right

Elder Moose Argonians and the dunmer are my top two favorite races. So my feelings are conflicted.

I like cats

Argonians are property.

Loreshelter whats funny is that me favorite races are the dark elves and the argonians

Exactly, dunmer fanboys act as if they're the good guys, which they most certainly aren't. They're xenophobic assholes with a collective superiority complex.

@@FrogyFan Nothing wrong with a superiority complex when you actually are superior.

Ignoring the racist comment, wow you are both sociopaths. The innocent should not be punished for the crimes of their countrymen. You can't go around killing random people because someone that shares their skin color did something bad. Please none of you ever get into any kind of public service

@@grillmadeofrecycledgrenade3197 The same could be said about how the Dunmer captured and treated them as slaves. The fact the Tribunal allowed it says a lot about the culture.

@@IveBeenWithBruma the same cannot be said. "You killed my mother, I killed you" is vengeance. Still wrong but reasonable. "You killed my mother so I killed yours, who may or may not approve or even know of your actions" is the logic of a truly sick mind.

agreed mate😧

I'm betting you've owned a pair of Nike shoes in your life, right? Or a smart phone? Or some other luxury item like that. Luxury goods are cheap in the U.S. because people (including children sometimes) in the 3rd world work in near-slavery conditions. Do you think those people in the 3rd world would be morally justified if they decided they wanted to kill you and your entire family? Because I don't. This is the logic you are affirming.

yes, yes they did. as we learned in morrowind even elves that weren't actively engaged in the slave trade supported it and treated those who opposed it horribly only a relatively small number of americans will go to war or launch missiles does that mean that when we vote to slaughter people that we're innocent of the act? not owning slaves doesn't save you if you SUPPORT the trade me not killing you doesn't mean shit if i'm saying that you deserve to die helseth's proposal wasn't entire opposed...but then it did spark him to become considered a figurehead of the empire and once again put him at odds with many of his own people it sparked a bloody civil war that he won...and "effectively" removed the slave trade..but how long will helseth reign? how many detractors simply nod and go along with it while plotting in the dark to have the imperial figurehead removed? a law without the support of the people isn't an effective law, it only holds so long as you have the strength to beat them if they disobey you and there happen to be 2 very..very effective guilds operating in morrowind that for the right price will remove him from power, resulting in a new king..likely not sharing the same imperial mindset, not being leashed

@@death299 Get off the computer then bigot

​@@iamdream2562 "bigot"? for believing that people that openly condone slavery do deserve the revolt and revolution from the people they enslave? are you saying you'd blame africans for killing americans and/or invading america for a thousands of years of invasion of their territory, killing of their soldiers and removal of their young for such a purpose? does a man that beats his wife day in and day out while holding a gun to their kids head if they dare leave..is he responsible for her actions when/if she kills him or did he have it coming? slave revolts, were they unjustified? many resulted in slave owners and those in LE who hunted them down being killed the majority of morrowind was in support of slavery the entire damn time, including in house Redoran and Hlaalu that banned it for a variety of reasons, from supporting it to abolishing and freeing slaves being immoral on the grounds that slavery is legal in the nation the difference between third world countries and actual slavery is that one is exploitation of negative circumstances (which is extremely immoral) and the other is going out of your way to abuse and deny living things of rights because you fucking can it's the same reason a family and child selling their organs (or marriage) is..wrong to buy but not nearly as wrong as you going to the country, shooting the family, taking the organs/individual and then selling them which one do you think the courts would look worse on? which one do you think would result in anger and the next time someone like you comes into the area them being fucking flayed? if you have to keep a nation from engaging in slavery or genocide by holding a knife to the people's throats, no one is going to feel sympathy when the people you openly kill slit your throat the moment you show any sign of weakness if almost everyone in mexico supported killing men and women of the states and enslaving the children do you honestly think that you would be opposed to killing them the moment something happened to destabilize their military capability? you can't engage in vile actions for thousands of years and expect some sort of pity card when you're put in the seat of being executed for it they were engaged in this shit thousands of years before Alessia was born, thousands of years before they became "dark elves" and were simply Chimer they were given a very..very real chance to end it and they opposed it, in many instances killing abolitionists and when they weren't killed they were often forced to keep those views entirely hidden i'm a fan of the dark elves, but they definitely had it coming they see it as their right to own others, choices have consequences...sometimes those consequences are severe

Look up president Ngo Dinh Diem during the Vietnam war. He and his brother were targeted individuals for the injustice in south Vietnam. That stuff happens in the real world

It's no bcoz his compassion it's to boost his ego .Vivec literally told the dunmer if they're refuse to worship him he would drop on them.Also , prayers and reverence increase the power of gods. Without , prayers gods become weaker and lose their influence.Thats why Vivec hold the meteor above instead tossing it somewhere or destroy it. It's exacty the same reason thalmor try to with by banning worship of Talos.

What's really goofy about that is that apparently he held it there without reducing its momentum. It wouldn't have done that much damage by simply plopping down from a few hundred feet

Yeah, nobody ever bases slavery stories on the trade that still goes on today.

Rhanindito Widodo about half of those things wouldn't have happened if they weren't such dicks to everyone

DragonHeart 12 👏👏👏

DragonHeart 12 All the races are dicks to eachother. Hammerfell doesn't trust anyone outside the borders. Skyrim despises beast races and Elves. High Rock is snobby and sees their neighbouring Orcs as vermin. Orcs don't trust anyone that aren't from their strongholds. Black Marsh ambushes and kills any outsiders. Morrowind generally dislikes what they call "outlanders" Valenwood is a reasonably racial-friendly place, but their odd/taboo lifestyle doesn't attract alot of outsiders. Summerset has a superiority complex and believes every race is beneath them. Cyrodiil is definitely the most racially equal out of all of them.

Ya Forgot Elsweyr friend this one feels like to remind you about it.

Before they were Dunmer, they were the Chimer, a race responsible for things more repugnant than even widespread slavery and enough arrogance to make today's Thalmor jealous. They needed their asses whipped into shape, but probably not as hard as they got it.

That's brilliant!

ACID CAT but not the dark elven children

@@marielenapotts848 oh we do spare the children. Dres, no need to beg. What are we some beasts? For the matter we only hurt those that don't look like an egg.

As they should

Wade Dewell tell that to a little Dunmer kid who saw his parents get slaughtered in front of him before the Argonians do the same to him

@@marielenapotts848 did said Dunmer family actively or passively support slavery?

@@marielenapotts848 you seem to be everywhere, slavery apologist.

I don’t O just subtly smirk

Mr lentelka 💯💯💯💯💯

Both are right in that at the time they had the power to do so. The dunmer enslaved the beasts, and the beasts took revenge. 🤷🏼

Would you like a lizard man to punish you for the evils your society engages in?

but they did Slavery is Illegal in Morrowind by the Third Era meaning Argonia invaded after they Abolished it

You realize the Dunmer actually won the war right? It wasn't a total victory, but they stopped the invasion, wiped out most of the invading force and pushed the rest back into black marsh and reclaimed 90% of the territory they lost.

Nelson_ Rebel what about the Dunmer children who were completely powerless to anything about the slavery though? Did THEY deserve it? Is being born as a Dunmer (something that NPCs do not choose) make them automatically guilty and deserving of being slaughtered? Think

@@marielenapotts848 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8t5aQ2mTx-4.html

Yeah you're right, alright guys, let's continue being slaves so we don't end up like them dark elves.

@@sunlight-sky151 Classic Commie comment

"It's time for a prayer, it's time for a prayer. For our lord Dres can't wake up, and his food has gone stale. His whip won't be cracking, all netch ran away... Marsh Brothers, Marsh Sisters, it is a good day!" But seriously, I see you're a true saxhleel shelik as well. And that song is absolute poison, my friend.

SlyBiffrons Yeah dude.

I don't remember any. Is it a mod?

SlyBiffrons It's been a while but I'm pretty sure there are. If not then I must've been playing a modded version.

SlyBiffrons its a mod my dude.. theirs no slaves on the island

Timesweeper 9 you were definitely playing a mod

and maybe use dead argonian as wallets and shoes, khajit as clothing

@@Ren21798 Yes, it is pretty sad. The good part is, the red eyes make up for a good decoration.

@@soeppoes8949 actually no they weren't pushed back into argonia they were just stopped before they could go any further. they kept most of the land they conquered and still hold during the times of elder scrolls 5

@@soeppoes8949 Source? I’m pretty sure Argonia annexed or de facto held a significant chunk of Morrowind according to maps I’ve seen on the state of Tamriel in 4E (seen in r/teslore), so I have no idea where you got that idea.

Exactly. If argonians are capable of revenge, they know damn well the dunmer are capable of it too.

Thank you so much! Really appreciate it :)

Sithis approves

Funny thing every time something threatens Morrowind it's usually the redoran and or the telvanni that slap it down so yah lizards wanna assault the mage Lord's in Thier towers hahaha best of luck.....

“war.. war never changes” 5 mins later: *nuke explosions in Pennsylvania and New York* (Fallout reference)

Brazil?

@@StefanyDjuba Nah, it's Bulgaria.

You dropped this. 👑

That's the problem right there. Argonians don't have the "one person" to represent their cause. With Alessia and Ysgramor, people can sympathize with them more personally as there are names of sons and loved ones involved.

@@shaokhanwins1037 Which honestly should be even more a reason to see Argonians in the right here. You can attach a hero to a name as much as a villain. Only difference is there’s no Snow Elves or Ayleids around to give there side of the story.

@@darkpaw1522 solid point

same

Hey, maybe they will both join the Thalmor. It's not like they are part of the Empire 😁

@@benyosefdrak2686 They don't need the Thalmor.

@@undeaddragon1158 They may not need them now, but soon they will realize the benefits of aligning themselves with Thalmor interests.

@@benyosefdrak2686 The Argonians live in a province that is virtually impenetrable so the Thalmor aren't of use while the dunmer don't gain anything from an alliance with the Thalmor.