I ALWAYS get higher club speed when I'm working on coming from the inside. As much as 4-6 mph faster. I'm a Mevo+ guy personally but I have a couple lefty buddies who enjoy testing the limits of my sim bay's coverage & durability. 😑 Love the channel & to anyone considering any of the products tested & explained here, don't hesitate to reach out, he'll get you solid deals. 😇
I really liked your presentation, but mostly because you demonstrated the ability of the new Skytrak+ to register every shot. My original Skytrak had a 10 - 20% miss factor which was very annoying. I now have the new Skytrak+ and am eager to put it into play. Thanks for your continuing videos.
Very nice. Big lag is gone. I swing in the same speed range as you and when I drop my foot back and go hard in to out like you here my swing speeds jump On all units I've used so this seems accurate. Those in to out swing aren't always good but they are fast. :)
Wasn't the old Skytrak doing an estimate on swingspeed. Pretty sure it was working back off ball speed. With the dopplar radar on the new unit, swingspeed is now measured.
I tested ball data on my skytrak against quad side by side and didn’t seem to interfere. Data on all 5 measured parameters bs, hl,launch, spin, sa was almost identical. Hence don’t see why wouldn’t for club data. Probably best way is to check against overhead like hawk or uneeekor
I was glad they were very transparent disclosing it was calculated. I’m going to try to do some benchmarking. I’m just a little concerned if it’s a device using clubhead stickers if I could interfere so I have to do some testing.
@@3o1Golf I have to do testing. It has nothing to do with what unit is reading what. It’s all about if one will interfere with the other. I have explain to several people never shotgun off videos for views. I want to make sure they are valid and not misleading. I have watched way too many comparison videos that are worthless and misleading.
It’s going to depend if both units can operate at the same time without interference. I’m not sure that’s going to be possible. But I’ve covered the Flightscope unit quite significantly with the recent updates, you can watch those videos.
Yeah I find that many do not mind the delay and then others hate it lol. Just like software, it is a personal preference thing. Many people I talk to using a TV on the side actually prefer the delay. Thanks for watching! P.S. I am not a fan of when the ball shifts another direction when using Trackman Virtual Golf due to the calculation.
Hey man, would it be possible to test the SkyTrak+ v a Trackman or GC please? I'm interested in buying a Skytrak+ but as I have nothing to compare the data from it to I'm reluctant to purchase until someone compares. Thanks man!
A ton have people have asked. I have only had this unit a few days. I’m going to see what unit would be a good comparison, and ensure there would be no interference before doing a comparison video. I never want to just shot gun off a video for views like I’ve seen others do when it’s actually an invalid test, and can be misleading. I hope that makes sense.
Given that the ST+ plus supposedly has dual doppler radar, I wonder what the unit is actually measuring with it. It seems like the dual radar should be able to measure a signal from the head in three dimensional space and time, so it should, theoretically, be able to measure path (and angle of attack for that matter). I can see where face angle (and dynamic loft if they chose to represent it)) would reguire a calculation. I wonder if this is semantics in some regard, as they may be using machine learning to process the clubhead radar signal in time and space to estimate the path (maybe also using ball data for that estimate). If they are only using the ball data to estimate path and face angle, then the only thing they would be using the radar for would be clubhead speed(?). It would be interesting to know more detail about this.
When it comes to path and face, the line between calculated and measured is blurred. Trackman clearly calculates face, and does it well outdoors, but also indoors when there is sufficient light to measure impact location. In any case, it is unknown how the + works, but it is likely not based on laser curtain and IR strobe method used by the first Skytrak device. These Rapsodo patents are for a down the line device, but could well be how the + obtains path and face. Very clever if that is how it is done: "With the methods described, all the club related data can be measured as shown in Table 1. Together with the 3D model of the club head, the simple model of the golf ball and ball parameters (measured, for example, using methods similar to those described in U.S. Pat. No. 9,171,211 B2), the 3D scene of the golf ball launch can be fully reconstructed with high accuracy." patents.justia.com/patent/11583746 So you are on the right track about the use of machine learning, but I think it focuses more on the photometric side of things ... getting accurate data from blurry low res medium framerate stereo images.
@@GolfSimulatorVideos Thanks. I think the issue is what input data is in the calculation (radar, photometric, both). From the Live Q&A at GolfWRX, Nick Clearwater was somewhat vague with the answer to that question but reading between the lines, it includes the radar data and might be both (also interesting that patent referenced from Morini33 suggests Rapsodo (maybe ST+ too) uses both). If you learn any more about this, I'm sure would be of interest to your audience although SkyTrak may not want to divulge more detail.
The Sytrak plus has similair hardware as the ES16 Tour plus. Side based radars are limited with their club data. They can measure club and ball speed and possibly angle of attack. A direct comparison with an overhead unit or radar from behind will be a good test.
Really nice video, I was interested to see a higher driver swing and how the reads were. My Mevo+ is just too inconsistent and always has some bug or issue. Might be selling that and moving into this. I’d be interested to see how it works outside, I hit in my yard with a pop out net.
Unfortunately, this is as fast as I can swing. If I have someone who can go higher I can try to do another video but I figured this would suffice as it is far above the average. Sounds like you must be way up there in speed.
@@mdamiano88 so I was going to do some wedges which I can do at the GSV outdoor practice area, but my club is all grass. I do have another course close by with turf so will try to get there soon.
Neil, the face and path are determined using the point in time where the face initially touches the ball. A lot can happen between that point and when the ball separates from the face... especially if the CG of the ball and club don't align.
Why do a video like this without having a higher end LM to compare against? I’m keen on getting a ST+ but your comments about being not sure if the 116/117 swing speeds are accurate or not could easily be dispelled if you were comparing those shots to your Trackman or Uneekor overhead LM’s?
I am working on what comparison would work and ensure no interference. There are a lot of comparison videos that are not done right and can be very misleading. After I am confident I have a good way to do a comparison I would be happy to, but I do not like to shotgun off videos for views. I hope that makes sense.
@@russellfothergill9082 I am not sure yet, I have only had the unit for a few days. As I said, I will test to ensure no interference is going to cause a bad comparison. Especially because now we are talking club data, which means reflective stickers on faces of clubs etc.
I only have had the random miss with faster driver. So far with this new unit I have not had a miss thus far. EYE XO is great for sure but also $10,000 vs $1,995 for that original skytrak.
Thank you! Yes, I do agree about the delay. Not sure if they are doing more math or maybe do not want to start flight until it is fully complete, etc. Trackman if you notice has a delay on their fitting range software, but when you go to simulation there is no delay. The downside for TM4 here is that sometimes the ball takes off then changes flight since it finished it's calculation. Could be the same thing and they do not want that experience. Thanks for watching!
@@GolfSimulatorVideos personally I would rather have the delay early on the SkyTrak . The ball flight on trackman always throws me off, especially as they account for gear effect mid flight.
@@alexvanderlinden5937 Yeah, it's really weird on drives that change halfway through. They had it delay a while back then I guess they had so much pressure on the delay they moved to that new way. Straighter shots don't matter much but if you curve the ball it can be funky!
Have a question for you on the ST +. I can't get through a round of golf on E6 or even the practice range without the unit losing connection. I have an excellent wi-fi set-up in my house so it is not a wi-fi problem. Is this normal ?
Everything is calculated. Ball data is also calculated. The more accurate direct mesurements will make the calculations more accurate. Not even a quesion that Skytrak will not measure most club data so the accuracy will not be the same as a Quad or Trackman.
@@bubba22a1 not true. They measure ball speed, spin etc. Every launch monitor out there has to calculate carry. Even Trackman full flight outdoors has to since it can’t see it land.
@@bubba22a1 you're absolutely correct, everything is calculated...even what is often considered measured. 😉 There is an assumption that you've made in your comment though. You're assuming trackman and foresight "measurements" are always accurate. Maybe. Maybe not. 🤷
Hi, I am 17 HCP golfer from India, looking to buy a launch monitor suitable for indoor and outdoor use.I am currently in the Usa on a holiday and researching to be able to make a purchase and take it with me back to India. I have been recommended the GC3 and Full Swing Kit. I am keen to know more before I can make a decision. Any advice based on user experience is much appreciated. Thanks.
Love the reviews! Not sure if it's possible due to the sensors but would love to see a head to head comparison of the GC3 vs. Skytrak Plus. Reviewing the accuracy, features, courses even if possible.
Hey there, love your channel. My question is have you ever tested the strike data on the lower right of the screen with some foot spray to see how close the strike data shown is?
@@GolfSimulatorVideos Also, have you tried using any club stickers to see if that improved/changed the club data on the Skytrack+? It might not change anything though since I think Skytrak uses the doppler for the club info as opposed to the cameras.
Ya, that’s why I did not like my SkyTrak. Nothing worse then puring a driver and it not picking it up and having to hit it again. I also had the same issue with my 2-iron. It did not like the low ball flight and increased speed.
So first off, BLP doesn’t not provide face angle only path. But, path with BLP is measured by placing a reflective, that also known as a fiducial, that the camera can lock onto and measure, as the club comes in to impact. This unit is taking all of the other data and using an algorithm to come up with path and face angle.
So MINI measures club path using a reflective sticker on the club face also known as a fiducial. That allows the camera to track the dot coming into impact. However, does not provide face angle. The skytrak is calculating the club data. It is measuring like clubhead, speed and ball, speed, data points to back into the club data using a calculation.
The Mini should be more accurate if it is directly measuring more club data. Everything is eventually calculated so we can assume their calculations are accurate.
Thanks for continuing the videos on the new Skytrak and look forward to more of them. The swingspeed numbers are concerning for sure and doing some addl comparisons seem reasonable as a followup. More concerning is the calculations on the club path and face angle data. My initial reaction as a current Skytrak user is that with the measured Spin axis/horizontal ball data points currently measured, you can make good assumptions on the club path/face angle on a center strike- an assumption that is difficult to know for sure - which causes doubt and uncertainty. A question now is the new Skytrak using a center strike as an assumption to generate the calculated cub data? There are a few ways (club face angle/Club path) to hit similar ballflights. The EyeMini and BLP measure club data directly and the Eyemini even gives you photo evidence of the strike, which is very definitive. Hard to imagine that the new Skytrak will be able to provide the user with that reassurance and confidence in the club data points- but I look forward to be disproven. Again, I look forward to more videos and appreciate your thorough use to eliminate variables. I am looking to upgrade during the Fall/Winter and the new Skytrak/BLP/EyeMini are of most interest to me at this point.
Hey Mac, ST+ does not assume a centered strike on any driver shot. The training set and techniques used could provide impact location, but at this time we've chosen not to. Hope that helps with your concern.
I'm no expert but seemd to me the ST + should have the ability to measure the club path and face angle data. Don't understand why they choose to calculate it.
@@nbargolf they are saying it’s within .5 and could get even better with more enforcements. I’m sure it comes down to costs of hardware and trying to keep the price down below other units.
@@nbargolf I wish it was just that easy to measure the club head. Beyond the driver, measuring the club head via fiducial isn't all the helpful. Machine learning techniques are sufficient for the displayed data.
No it does not. I would need to get with someone like Nick at SkyTrak to ask the specifics on that data point, but I think AOA is a data point that would have to be measured buy a camera or radar.
Feel free to. I don’t shotgun videos for views and the facts are i need to verify I can run two units like that especially with club stickers without having interference making it a bogus comparison. I see way too many videos that show bad comparisons and can be misleading.
@@ottawapop yeah I’m not interested in pot stirring lol. This channel was built on integrity and transparency. That’s why all videos are uncut and I show things how they are.
So that is kind of pending. I need to do more testing with some products to verify some things. If SkyTrak has this within the spec they are stating, it could be one of the best values for dollar and margin of error. R10 is a super low price and good value but pretty decent margin of error. Mevo+ price is right there as well with Pro Package competing with SkyTrak Plus.
I would say its the mevo plus at this point. Mevo plus comes woth 10 free E6 courses and no yearly subscriptions. I suspect the Skytrak + will have a yearly subdcription like the original.
HAHA! I mean I have increased for sure I was surprised at my last fitting how bad I needed a XS vs my previous S. I was swinging really hard here, more than I like to due to risk of injury. The numbers matched right up to a normal swing 110-112. I was just surprised to see 117. I am going to maybe give a few shots similar swing on some other devices to see if I can get there more consistent now or not.
Great video like always, your channel is awesome. Very helpful information. Is good to know club path, face path and face to target is calculate because i thought is by hardware and was only reason looking to upgrade for old skytrak. Can you compare or comments about this club data against to r-10 because is calculate too by software. Thanks in advance
Thank you! Based on data provided by Garmin, they will have a larger margin of error. Mainly due to the inability to measure spin axis. Nobody knows how each one of the companies calculates each number, for instance even Trackman gets impact location to calculate spin axis indoors, many do not know that! I am going to try to benchmark this club data against another unit, but I need to make sure there is not interference, especially if it needed club stickers, those can't interfere with SkyTrak Plus or that would be a terrible comparison. I do not want to shotgun out videos for views, I want them to be valid and not misleading. I see too many videos that do that and want to keep the integrity of the channel the best I can, and as always uncut, shown how it is! I appreciate you watching!
@@GolfSimulatorVideos thanks so much for your reply. Is great you work like this. Not only for views. I’ll be waiting for your next videos. Any recommendation launch monitor or other kind of device than can measure club path mainly. I want to work in my swing in to out because have bad habit out to in.thanks again
@@JorgeMorales-do5pr the two mid levels that measure path right now are gc3/BLP and Mini. Mevo+ does read path but using radar which I actually find quite accurate based on my testing. SkyTrak Plus could be a player for sure I just need to do more testing to verify.
Calculated does not necessarily mean inaccurate. It could be argued that TM4 calculates many of its metrics, but is of course based on analysis of what the doppler measures. It just isn't directly measured Quad style. When I hear the term "calculated", I think of statistical guessing, such as original Skytrak's club head speed and the R10 spin axis. I think the + way of obtaining face and path is far better than guessing based on statistical models. But it would be very nice to have accuracy confirmed. I think I saw a stat claiming better than 1 degree. For path that is not great and I'd hope for < 0.5 degree error. But face is so challenging to measure that I don't think 1 degree error is a huge concern. I have seen TM4 and Quad used simultaneously, and they disgreed on face quite often. Apparently caused by slightly different definitions of impact, and with the face closure rate as high as it is, a millisecond difference can change the numbers. Of course, a true 1 degree difference in face to path can send a drive curving 20 yards.
Watch my first video and I go over all of the new features. I think the biggest thing from what I am hearing from people is the measured club head speed, 40% larger hitting area makes it easier, delay is improved, plus higher level of accuracy with the new hardware. Like most products, there will be a level of personal preference and value for everyone. Thanks for watching!
@@GolfSimulatorVideos I have no misreads and don't need a larger hitting area and I don't care about the 2 second delay 🤷🏻♂️. I'm not that impatient lol. It still doesn't work at the range off the grass. For $3000 it should work off the grass.
@@CybekCusal So it is just not for you then. Like I said a lot of personal preference and value. Sounds like you are good, if you want to hit off grass you could look at Mevo+, UNEEKOR MINI, GC3, etc.
Club data is nice to have for those that want it. A slice sidespin can come with an open or closed clubface. The face to path ratio (not so much face to target) as well as face contact (gear effect) are what will influence the sidespin and sometimes that is not that easy to understand oe master when you are playing. If it were, then we would all be pros. Kudos to Skytrak for making an attempt to help those that want club data. How accurate it will be, time will tell.
Question, I have a Gaming CPU that has a AMD Ryzen 5 and a RTX3060ti and I want to get the Bushnell but I have heard it does not work with AMD CPU. Would you recommend the Skytrak + or the Launch pro for my set up. Also which is more accurate between the 2
