Slayers are stronger than young vamps but its probably like a 7 or 8 fighting a 10 It's uphill but doable. With Caleb it was like a 1 fighting a 10 so there wasn't a point. They didn't even know if he was still human or killable.
I think it had a bigger impact because he was her final lesson before she went on to fight the first. She beat everything else that had ever been thrown at her, every kind of evil except him. It was part of that "each bad guy is a life hurdle" that Joss had going on with the show. The First could not be killed, only stalled for a time, so really he was the final big bad that she killed in the series.
You know what made Caleb such a good villain? The big bads in this show were either evil because they were made to be that way (the master, the first, angelus), or because their lack of regard for the damage they did to achieve their goals made them look evil (Glory, Adam, the mayor). But Caleb? He was evil for no other reason that he wanted to be. He enjoyed hurting people, the power it gave to him. I honestly think he could have walked away from it had he been inclined because for him, evil was a choice. And he chose to revel in the pain and suffering of others
@TonyEfforts no. He was human. The First lent him a portion of its power which is what made him so strong. This is my point. His evil was a willing choice that he could walk away from, he just chose not to
@Antonio Milton agreed. Buffy got her ass whooped the first two encounters but as always, she utilized other abilities like her agility and speed to best him. Faith would've done the same I'm sure.
Caleb is my favourite villian from BTVS, so chilling and sinster, plus he enjoys and finds the pain, fear and deaths of the potentical slayers amusing. Nathan Fillion did an incredible job playing this character as he usually plays heroes and good guys, wish he'd been in the whole season though not just a few episodes.
Fun fact: Xander was supposed to die here. He then would have appeared as the First for the rest of the season, taunting the Scoobies as they go into the big battle. But Joss Whedon couldn't bring himself to do it... so he did this instead.
yea ...but he was too strong and too evil . the episodes he was in scared me back when this show was on...he had the power of the first inside him if he were in more episodes more of the cast would have been murdered by him easily
@@streetfightervsxenoverse1832 actually it all depends on what you view as scary ..the fact that Caleb was an evil preacher was scary to me because hes supposed to represent god but chooses to work for the devil so i think Caleb was way scarier than the uber vamp was even tho he almost killed Buffy caleb was the scariest villain on buffy in my opinion.
The fact that Caleb was just an agent of the First and scared me more than the First(or any other Big Bad for that matter) is telling. And the way the camera goes to Spike when Caleb grabs Xander then Spike goes after him once he hurts Xander is done so well.
@@Angela-wo7lvI disagree .. and I don’t even like Spike.. but I think in the bigger picture Xander is on Spikes team and he saw him get hurt he saved him because that was spikes nature.
He was a normal human going on supernatural adventures with slayers and witches. I think he knew it was only a matter of time before something like this happened.
@@toamatoro570 Yeah not sure if he was brave or dumb. He had no powers or any fighting abelites really. He didn't even have above human intelligence. Actually thought he was going to be the smart person in the group, but it was the opposite.
This season was so dark compared to the more lighthearted earlier seasons, Xander losing an eye was one of the most shocking things to ever happen to a main Scooby gang member
I like that it's spike is the one that runs to help Xander and actually floors Caleb , especially given that he and Xander have never really gotten along
Work/fight alongside someone for a long enough period of time and you'll eventually gain a mutual respect, even if you don't particularly like each other.
Camaraderie that comes from multiple battles fighting on the same team is a powerful thing. They may have hated each other, but ultimately they were still brothers in arms.
@Angela-wo7lv I would disagree. I think Spike and Xander had a certain wary respect for each other. Spike because he's a vampire with 2 slayers to his name and Xander because he's just a human. Unlike say Wesley or Giles who are trained watchers or Gunn who grew up fighting on the streets, there's nothing special or powerful about Xander (as he acknowledged) but he's always there in the thick of it. I think Spike respected that even if he didn't particularly like the guy
@@joecolman1968100% I don’t think anyone could’ve watched a super strength tear into the eye of a normal human and not do anything.. Spike protected him because at the end of the day Xander was his teammate and he was helpless.
I was obsessed with this scene when i was a kid. Other kids were watching spider man when i was raised on buffy. My first show that wasnt for kids. Ill always love Buffy and Angel
The original plan was to have Caleb snap Xanders neck here, but it changed in production because Joss felt he couldn't send fans away happy killing one of the "core four."
Oh my. That explains another comment I read on here about Xander dying. I had no idea that was the original plan. I’m glad it didn’t happen that way. If he was going to die, at least have him go out in a fight like Anya did.
Faith in Buffy TVS is a dumbass dipshit. There was a bomb in a chest when she opened it and she screamed "GET DOWN!" to the others. When clearly, if they'd gotten down, they'd have gotten blown sky high into hundreds of meaty pieces and layer eaten by wild or stray animals.
He forgot rule number 1 of fighting. When the slayer is menacingly swinging a scythe around don't just stand there and call her a stupid girl. And rule number 2. NEVER leave your nuts exposed.
Why is everyone always comparing Buffy and Faith together? Even in the show they do I love them both they show both sides to a slayer they both use their heads emotions and fist to fight their opponents they fight with everything they have because both are warriors sure they didn’t get along because Faith went down a dark path but honestly that’s what makes Faith interesting Buffy isn’t dark and Faith isn’t light they are opposites but put them together and they balance each other out I love their storyline and character arcs first friends then enemies to comrades to sisters they share a bond with each other because they are slayers and no one else in the gang can get that except for them they are both pretty bad ass in my eyes
I’ve never compared them. I find them contrasting, just how you explained. I love Faith. she’s a badass. She fit the role very well. I’m always also very intrigued about people going down a dark path. She was a good villain, but I always had Faith in her (pun intended) that she would see the light. I felt bad for her. you could see what she was struggling with. I’m glad they brought her back. I think that she had tremendous growth in the show and she became an even bigger badass after she was back on the good side. I also love Buffy. She is the show, obviously, and she’s also a badass, but in a more conservative way lol If that makes sense. It would be hard to pick a favorite since they’re both so different. I’m more attracted to Faith in many different ways (I don’t mean sexually btw), but it’s also hard to disregard Buffy at all, or even a little just because we spent so many years watching her too.
Yep, I have never not liked Faith, I love my girl buffy more then anyone lol but I have never had something bad to say about Faith. I knew she would turn out to be alrite in the end.
I kinda agree with this. Two slayers and a vampire should’ve been able to take Caleb, he wasn’t that strong considering Buffy was able to beat him solo in the end.
If they all fought him at the same time I think they could. Here he fought them all individually. Even Buffy managed to momentarily distract him by sending him flying with superior skill and speed.
Hamilton was a blatant rip-off of Agent Smith from the Matrix. He just didn't wear the shades. Also, his martial arts wasn't as good, the guy didn't throw one kick.
To a degree yes until the scene where Hamilton beats depowered Illyria (who even at this stage makes Spike look like a joke) unconscious in about 10 seconds. Plus Hamilton first appears in episode 17, so he is more towards the end like Caleb is. Honestly based on feats Hamilton would beat Caleb in a fight my opinion. I’d say even Depowered Illyria would go toe to toe against Caleb.
The Master, Adam, Glory and Caleb were the scariest big bads on the show! Caleb though seemed to really enjoy the terror and really took his time, makes him the most mencing and threating. Since the Uncharted fan film, Nathan Fillion is always Nathan Drake to me so it's like what would happen if he was evil!
Taking his time? He seemed to make short work of whomever he got his hands on. That’s the kind of villain I like. The others were mostly talk talk talk and then one or two fights. Caleb talks and decimates at the same time. Wish he had killed Xander in this but Whedon decided against it due to not having enough time to grieve.
@@socialmedianotfunanymore Yes. Honestly, it probably would have been a really good artistic choice. But Whedon thought the characters wouldn’t have had enough time to mourn Xander in just the final 4 episodes.
The mayor is more terrifying than the master and Adam to me. You always got the feeling that there was a barely contained wolf beneath his facade of cheerfulness.
Nathan Fillion is such a good actor. It's a shame that his character was thrown into season that was severely underdeveloped. He could've been the big bad for season 4
I do think the season was underdeveloped. It had a lot of potential, but I also would have not liked if they dragged the story for 4 seasons. But Who knows. Maybe you’re right. They could have come up with something a lot more clever in 4 seasons.
Watching this years later I realize none on the potentials use their weapons on the Bringers in the beginning. Swords and knives galore and they are punching and kicking
Also, I get vampires are only killable by decapitation, immolation, or a stake through the chest, but this is in America, and there are a lot of problems a gun solves much better than knives and fisticuffs. I just imagine after Caleb throws Buffy across the room and says "what else you got", Spike just reaches into his jacket and says "I got a 12 gauge" and immediately puts a sizeable hole in Caleb's face, followed by the bringers.
Caleb should have been season 7 big bad along with the bringers being his minions, with occasional appearance from the Uber vamps and the first evil setting the stage for season 8
You watch Firefly and see Mal, the perfect reluctant hero. You watch Buffy and see Caleb, the pyscho that revels in the evil he creates. Nathan Fillion is the shit.
Man, they got absolutely wrecked. This is easily the worst defeat the protagonists have suffered in the entire series. At least when Glory beat the shit out of Buffy, no one else had to suffer.
Cookie Monster .....because they have enough on their hand with one evil being to fight? Even in the comics she said that going darth willow may turn her against her friend.
Maybe. Probably not, though. Caleb was playing with them, here. They didn't know what he could do yet and he wanted to test the strength of a Slayer against his own power. When he first punched Buffy, he was not impressed by their Slayer powers and as a result, he held back so he could play with them some more. If Buffy and Faith had tried to tag team him, they would have fared better for a while, but he would have tried harder too and probably killed one of them to send a message not to fuck with him. There's also the fact that Faith is not much of a teamplayer and her and Buffy have been at odds with each other for a while now. They don't play well together, there's no trust or cooperation and Caleb would have most likely taken advantage of that. In another fight, Buffy figures out that, although she is no match for his strength and endurance, she is much faster and more agile then he is, so she spends most of their fight dodging his blows and counterattacking whenever possible. This was AFTER she learned a thing or two about how Caleb likes to do things, though. In their first fight, he utterly trashed her, Faith, Spike and all the potentials and teaming up with Faith wouldn't have been enough to kill him, I don't think.
@@cookiemonster3056 Willow is ineffective against the first, and the first is very much protecting Caleb. If Willow tried to use magic against him, like we see later in the season, the first would try to possess her and fuck her up . like it did when she tried to track the first and willow knew better than to try again.
I was never a Buffy Buff (yes pun inteded) that being said it is a nice contrast and impressing to see how far Whedon has come and grown over the years. Yes, sure it's a vast difference in both the year this was produced along with difference in budgets compared to the Marvels he has been up to.. Still my personal favourite of his is Firefly, made a masterpiece with no small effort thanks to Nathan Fillion. Damn shame it ended due to piss poor judgement from studios.. Firefly never aired in my country so I only learned about it when I found Serenity in the local movie rental place.. Thankfully the show is still available at some streaming services today and I still rewatch every episode when I get that Mal itch..
Buffy got that ass in the end, she was pissed and probably wouldve slayed him right there if spike didn’t interfere. But her troops were more important.
Buffy would've lost. She only wins because of protagonist plot armor, combined with artificial stupidity. If Caleb had fought Buffy the way he fought Faith, he would've massacred her.
@@YourCreepyUncle. False, any fighter knows that going up against a significantly more powerful adversary for the first time will most likely warrant a beat down. But it does not determine defeat. Two active Slayers would’ve definitely killed Caleb right then and there, especially after realizing how powerful he was. But they had to retreat bc they were losing too many girls in the fight.
Buffy wouldn’t have beaten him then and there. Stop jumping on the slayers ass. The next time they meet he knocks her unconscious. Buffy’s skill did pay off here, but he was only knocked down for like a second. Even with the scythe she still struggled against him until Angel came. What comes out of your mouth and what actually happens are two very different things.
@@TheJayden3977 “Jumping on the slayers ass” you’re like the biggest hater i don’t even know why you watch the show lolol “He was only knocked down for like a second” 😂😂😂 You must hate that i’m right. Look, maybe you’ve never been in an actual fight so all you have to reference is your little comic book reality. Anytime you knock someone down, whether it be for a second or an hour, that means it was also an opportunity to finish them. You have no problem reminding everyone of how Caleb could’ve killed Buffy when he knocked her out in the school, well she could’ve killed him at the vineyard when she sent him flying across the room. And chopped his head off before he had a chance to recover. But no, her troops were wounded and many killed, so stop being a hypocrite just bc you’re a Dark Willow fangirl
@@RicoDavisYou’re wrong. Buffy wasn’t going to win this fight. Caleb was a LOT stronger than her. That’s just fact. He knocked her out with one punch in the beginning. The second time they fight, she doesn’t even last a minute before he throws her through glass and into a wall and knocks her out again. Caleb is probably as strong as either Glory or the Beast in the “Angel” series. Buffy alone isn’t strong enough to beat those kinds of beings by herself. She’d need the Scythe or some kind of help to level the playing field. Plus, she came in here knowing nothing about her opponent. She didn’t know how strong he was or how he thinks. It was a big mistake. Caleb was strong enough to beat Buffy, Faith and Spike in just five minutes. He was smart enough to not allow them time to regroup, form a plan, double-team him or get any kind of momentum. And just for kicks, he blinded her friend to send her and them a message. Buffy was out of her depths here. She was not going to be enough to win on this night.
But she could only fight him to a standstill. Caleb was just playing with her, sending a message. He wasn’t going to kill her…yet. He wanted her scared first. Doubting her strength against him. And Buffy wasn’t ready to beat him, not yet. Once she got the scythe and Angel was there to cheer her on and back her up, she had everything she needed to finally end Caleb.
@@Jeff_Pryce no, he thought she was nothing and she combo’d his ass and sent him fly across the room the same way he did her. I absolutely love that she did that and it was indeed a memo that eventually she was gonna end his crazy ass
Not very well. They were faster if they concentrated and focused purely on reflexes, but one hit would take them out. They can't damage him but he can damage them just fine.
It wouldn’t have made a difference. Notice how Caleb fights here. Everyone says that if they ganged up on Caleb, they would have taken him down. Caleb probably knows that-which is why he didn’t allow it to happen. He isolated each individual threat (Buffy, Faith, Spike, etc) and took them out one on one. Quickly. Mercilessly. He strikes hard and fast and doesn’t give them any time to regroup or gang up. He went for shock, awe and confusion, and it worked spectacularly. That’s why he won this fight.
I think.. and this is just my opinion.. if they had known about Calebs monstrous strength and durability in the beginning.. this might have gone different. If you look at the second time she brawls with him, she dodges his attacks and only attacks to counter.. and does MUCH better. Same thing with when she finds the scythe.
I think that’s what led them to turn on Buffy in the next episode. Everyone was saying this felt like a trap, but Buffy was headstrong and insisted on meeting Caleb head-on without knowing anything about him. And it resulted in disaster.
@@Jeff_Pryce right. Not to mention the tension between her and Giles was obvious at that point and she completely disrespected him in front of everyone & wouldn’t listen to his warning. On another note, it was out of character for Buffy to do this with Giles. When it came down to a real battle, she always listened to him. I know she was still mad at him for allowing the principal to attack and try to kill Spike but still.
Yup. Buffy by Season 7 has heaps of experience fighting people that are far stronger than her. Glory for example. Buffy is also a far more skilled fighter than Caleb. Buffy adapts quickly. Even two episodes later when she looks for the scythe Caleb can’t land a hit on her because she is too fast, even Buffy knows it.
@@socialmedianotfunanymorethe bigger issue I have is how out of character the writing for Giles was. They really assisted his character with poor writing/creative direction the final 2 seasons.
This guy is an untouchable animal everyone is flying and getting necks snapped and stabbed would love to see Caleb vs Glory. Great to see faith get in on the act. I think Buffy was totally caught off guard here coming up against Caleb. Later she grew and then slewed.
@@KrisBryant99 nah, he’s clearly not immune to sharp objects so a pissed off Buffy with a sword would’ve done the job. Two pissed off slayers with swords would’ve done even more
Is it wrong to vouch for Caleb in this battle? Apart from him being a fake priest and an evil incarnate? Yes, it is wrong. Gougeing Xander's eye is where he crossed the line.
Now I hope my boys haven’t worn you out too much, i need you fit for when I purify you. Miss I do believe you have your own problems you should be worried about
