A longer effective edge doesn't change the actual edge curvature achieved. You are incorrect to state that for 2 boards with the same SCR but 2 different effective edges that the longer board will turn tighter. Flex is just like SCR but on a 90 degree rotation different axis to SCR. A longer effective edge gives a deeper flex curve but the same flex radius, just as a longer effective edge gives a deeper sidecut but the same sidecut radius. It's all arc/chord/sagitta math. A carved turn is made with the leading part of the edge penetrating the surface and then the board riding on its base against the lateral wall of the carved groove in the snow. Look at your snowboard base after a day of hard carving. The wax will be burned away on the lateral 2-4cm by each edge. SCR & flex contribute to turn shape created when the, a turn at 1 degree inclination is almost all SCR, a turn at 45 degrees is equally SCR & flex, and a turn at 89 degrees inclination is almost all flex curve. All other things being equal (rider skill & inclination angle) your 200cm Cheater turns more tightly at high angles because its flex radius is smaller than your friends boards flex radii.
What do you mean with flex radius??? I think what I’m explaining is quite logical. The amount a board can bend - given it is not too stiff - is determined by how much space there is to push into when the board is tipped on edge 90° (sidecut depth). A longer effective edge on a given sidecut radius creates more space to push into and hence results in a tighter turn when tipped equally high on edge. No?!??
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Flex radius: support a snowboard at the either end of its effective edge, and load the middle with a mass. The board will bend into a complex curve, but the middle of that curve has a depth. Using arc/chord/sagitta math the average radius of the curve produced by the board flex under load can be calculated. Exactly the same math that relates the sidecut depth, effective edge and sidecut radius. Additional complexities include - a) that evenly splitting the mass and applying it at a rider's stance width reduces the depth of the curve. The wider the stance, the greater the depth reduction. b) in a dynamic turn as the rider's angular direction rate of change increases, the bending force generated by the rider's mass increases. Here is a link to a sidecut radius calculator that uses the same model as your "logical thought". natewaddoups.github.io/SidecutCalculator.html (edited post after I realised I hadn't put the link in!) The resulting curve for any board angle is solely dependent upon sidecut radius, not sidecut depth. And at 90 degrees board angle, no matter what the starting radius, the calculated turn radius = 0 (zero)! That is clearly a nonsense result and reveals that there must be a deficiency in the model. So what do we see in the real world. Look at your own carved turn tracks. Look at the base of your board after a hard days carving, looking at the wear pattern of your wax, including at the waist of the board. And think. A carved turn begins when the board is tilted on edge. Suddenly, instead of the riders mass being spread across the whole base it is all loaded on the edge. This causes the edge to penetrate the snow surface and compress the snow underneath the base until the base has sunk into the snow enough to support the mass of the rider without further compression. A groove starts to form and the base is riding on the lateral wall of that groove. The groove has a curve with a radius to it, at low angles predominantly shaped by the sidecut curve of the board, but as you are aware some flex of the board is already occurring as well. The force changing the direction of the rider's momentum (the turn) is created by the base riding on the lateral wall of the curving groove. At board angles less than 45 degrees the sidecut plays the greater role in determining the shape of the groove curve, but flex plays a gradually increasing role as the angle rises. Above 45 degrees the board base is still riding against the lateral wall of the groove, and that is what the rider is balancing on. But think about the axis of curvature of the board in relation to the direction change of the rider and it becomes clear that the flex curve of the board is now the major driver of the shape of the groove across the the snow surface. Look below to see board bend driving turn shape at high board angles. forums.alpinesnowboarder.com/topic/43232-bend-it/
@@riotsupercarver7467 ok...... I can't follow this! I'm not arguing with your groove in the snow thoughts. Of course that's what hold the board. I'm a nerd, but at the end of the day a practical man: I've measured turn radii on snow where I bent a 10.5m Stranda Pipeliner 185 into an under 5m radius arc..... The board has a 153cm effective edge. A board with a 100cm effective edge and an 8m radius can barely be bent into that size turn. How would you explain that? I've seen it, done it, measured it. I find your explanation overly complicated - because I haven't learned that kind of maths. I still find what I stating in the video to be 100% logical - and I've experienced it on snow. There's one other thing: The short/fat board trend has produced all these boards with super short effective edges and partially under 5m sidecut radii. The reason for the engineer's choice of such small sidecuts is simply that an 8m + sidecut radius on such short effective edges would hardly turn due to the lack of sidecut depths - which is a result of pairing short effective edge with large radii. That is totally logical from my standpoint. I'll take a deep dive into your thoughts. Thank you for the comment. Interesting thing to try and wrap my head around, for sure!!
@@Justaride-Snowboard-ChannelAn explanation for your observation. When I talked about flex radius above I mentioned above that stance distance alters the flex curve for a board of any given length. Why is that? The riders mass is acting over the available length between the end of the effective edge and the binding location. If all the rider's mass is at the centre of the board the leverage is maximised. If a board was made so short that the bindings were placed over the ends of the effective edge there would be no leverage force exerted beyond the bindings to bend the board. Now in a very recent video analysing turn shape you described how riders initiate their turns with weight forward and finish their turns with their weight towards the rear. The modern supershort carving boards you are talking about tend to have significantly longer noses than tails. Leverage and flex is relatively high when the board initially is tilted on edge and G forces are low. But as the rider turns away from the fall line in the bottom half of the turn the riders weight shifts to the rear, to what is now a very short lever even with the relatively high forces being generated in this part of the turn, making the board difficult to flex and tighten the turn shape. How long is your stance? and how much effective edge is now behind your rear foot on the supershort board, compared with the longer Stranda? If the starting proposition in any logical train of thought is incorrect, then no matter how logical the process that follows, the end result is incorrect. Your starting proposition, that sidecut depth per se is influential in turn shape is incorrect.
Fantastic Lars! Best snowboard channel across all of RU-vid. Kudos and thank you for all the golden nuggets. Very much appreciate your work. Liebe Grüße aus Essen.
Other then this minor point about "largest possible turn" below, you are one of the few guys out there that actually understand board (and ski) physics. Too often I hear people straight up say "sidecut is what makes the board turn" which is simply wrong. (old skis were edgeless, camberless, long and almost completely straight yet they turned) 8:48 "sidecut radius number describes the largest possible turn" according to your explanation of the turn physics, the board will always have to be tilted and bent even if only a little bit, to turn. Because the board will never turn while flat on the ground, and the sidecut radius is measured in two dimensions, the number doesn't signify anything happening with the board in the real world. The board will simply never achieve its sidecut turn so it is not a "possible turn" at all. The function of the sidcut radius number is only to give us an approximated idea of how deep the sidecut is compared to other boards or lengths but that's it. Board length, sidecut, shape all contribute and assist in turning but the primary source of turning is always the fact that there is pressure in the middle of the board and none in the tips. ... all of this makes me think how important a narrow stance is for turning - because of course, the same weight distributed in a narrower spot along the length of the board will flex the board more than that same weight distributed in a wider spot.
I just found your channel in the last couple days... This is the channel that every rider needs to be subscribed to 😉 What's quite interesting about all of these design aspects is how many average riders pay no attention to them, at least here where I live anyway. Only a handful of people here actually get a board on edge. I have always been concerned with side cut and effective edge because I figured out early on how it all worked back in the 90s when I was first starting to really carve. Now I only ride hardboots chasing carves. It's fun to experience different boards and how the different shapes, radius and lengths react on turns.
Thanks for the great content! I am new to your channel, however, I really appreciate your depth of knowledge and willingness to share in such a well articulated way.
Really good info. I especially like how you highlighted the importance of the flex working with the sidecut and the concept of sidecut depth. My latest custom Coiler board plays with that concept. My idea was that I want to have really small sidecut depth. That was in order to keep the middle of the sidecut engaged with extreme edge angles. The turn then follows the shape based on how much I muscle the board (decambering). Bruce (the board builder) wasn't convinced at first that such a design would work especially with duck stance softboot setup. I'm glad he eventually built the board and now I can ride the way I want. Here are the specs of my board: 164cm length, 136cm ee, 300mm waist, 16m scr Interested to hear what you tought of the Contra James let you ride. For reference my board has 7.6 flex on Bruce's scale. I don't know what flex James has but bear in mind that the number is a measure of deflection so shorter ee board is bound to have less deflection. Bigger number == less deflection. In any case 7.6 isn't a soft board. I also have a fun illustration of what happens when it's icy and you attempt a high edge angle turn with a deep sidecut depth board: cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/916689081512128532/968110107693027398/unknown.png?ex=65e5af4c&is=65d33a4c&hm=9b734518e5e89f937abaad1a87ff2679606488d83ea80a610f161f225c9442b7& ... and for the sake of comparison, with my new board: cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/341764489517072394/1207335504169672776/image.png?ex=65e8804f&is=65d60b4f&hm=f97afbeed9a58d5509bb954c060b0ea226f581dbc2b6f97d268511f7fe7ff871& 16m scr and 136cm ee seem to result in small enough sidecut depth to keep the sidecut engaged even when the surface is icy/firm. Also for reference, my usual go-to black slope is around 26 to 29° steep and about 20m wide. Flexing the board allows me to carve that even though 2x scr is larger than the width of the slope.
Awesome comment, again!! Yeah, I completely get what you're saying. Great pics. Just taking a nap on a firm groomer! Hahaha... The Coiler had a 12m radius and grip for days. Too damp for me. I like more feedback. But it's on the right side of good and evil!! Great board!!
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Yeah get what you mean about the Coiler. I often take two or three boards with me when I go shred. One of my favorites is Salomon Super 8 Pro 154. I really like how it ejects me from the turn way more than the Coiler. Of course for the kind of riding I do with the Coiler, I want it to be predictable and easy so I can really concentrate on getting as high edge angle as possible and as close to the snow as possible. That's where my goals differ from you and James. I do want that pencil line carve as well but I'm ready to compromise a bit there in order to get as low as possible. That said, I still consider turn a failure if I lose the decamber during the turn. What I like most about that kind of riding is that the perfect turn is so hard to reach. Also I haven't ridden the Contra designs James rides. My board is hybrid hardboot design. Bruce says it's 80% hardboot construction. If I understood it right, the mid part of the board is where the main difference is and Bruce said my board has almost like a slalom hardboot board mid section and that's not the case with "normal" Contra design. I was fully prepared to ride the board with hardboots if it was too much for soft setup but I'm glad that it works great with softboot setup. But back to the topic, the way you describe and label the topics in your vids is great. I've been asked to do a tutorial vid about deep duck carving and now that there are amazing resources to use as a base (you and James), I'm probably going to do that at some point. The way I've been planning to do it is that I will link to various parts of your vids and also to James and only present kind of like "addon" or "plugin" type of stuff about what is needed for deep duck carves based on what you guys teach. No idea when I'll do that though. Hard to balance research work and "research hobby". 😆 Yeah, I'm a total nerd. 🤓
@@xargo6454 "What I like most about that kind of riding is that the perfect turn is so hard to reach." Yes!!!! exactly!!! 🙂 Great idea with that video!! Do it!!
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel I got baited by James with this vid: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-uNBua1SMosE.html ... and made a short take of my own hip shift here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ROKKN-NHXzQ.html You guys can do all the hard work with concise tutorial series and I'll continue to drop bits and pieces here and there. 😉
Wow what a small world! I’ve done several courses with Neil McNab (technical, backcountry & split boarding) & they are amazing. He really helps progress your riding. One of my best days riding was a heli drop with Neil in Switzerland. As a fellow geek I love your content!
He's a gem! We've never met in person, but I've been chatting to Neil for over 10 years now about splitboards and general snowboard nerd stuff... He's one of the few people who really understand snowboarding....
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel His book is really good too. Full of technical details. He’s seems to (or used to) recommend + on front foot & - on back foot. Would be interesting to get his thoughts on the whole posi posi stance for carving. When I did his technical course he recommended anywhere from 0 to -6 on back foot. However that was more for freeriding and not carving specific.
@@jaimepardo Since he raced and understands both techniques in depth, I'm sure he differentiates between the two in a similar way that I do. I rode -6 and later 0 on the backfoot for well over a decade. My riding has changed. I turn more and jump less. I slowly moved to posi, it was certainly NOT an overnight thing. I'm talking 3 or 4 seasons to go from 0 to +6.... It is quite different, and changing the technique is also not super easy or done quickly. But I viewed it as a path and an experiment, and it improved my carving dramatically. It's all preference and personal purpose. The biggest point is that duck and +/+ require two different techniques. Conveying that is my main goal with the talks about stance. And Neil is well aware of both. His whole 'bringing pressure to the tips by keeping the knees outwards' is so important when in a duck stance!
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel My plan is to experiment with stances angles with a view to trying posi posi for carving. But good to know to try it gradually rather than jump straight in with crazy angles. His tip for pushing the knees out when in duck stance to engage the contact points also works amazingly well for edge hold on icy faces. I’m not sure how all that will work (applying pressure to edges end to end) going posi posi but I intend play around & figure it out and take my carving to the next level 😀👊🏼
Another interesting video. I had not really made the connection with sidecut depth and potential carved turn radius, although I had a Tanker 172 that carved similarly to my current Virus 162, despite its larger sidecut radius. The 162 is definitely easier to toss around in tight places.
Me and my friend were literally puzzling over this today - the effect on a turn radius as the edge angle gets higher and higher (and the board flexes to suit), and how it relates to the advertised sidecut radius. So well timed to answer our questions! We were rewatching some Donek science videos from 11 years ago which was helping too. Anyway, thanks man, keep it up, loving the tech and theory!!
Sean Martin from Donek is gold!! The ways he's found to illustrate sidecut and explain the physics of a turn blew my mind the first time I watched it ages ago. He's a master!! Thanks for watching my stuff! 🙂
Side cut radius is the board flat on the ground. Yes, when you load up the board in turn and decamber it, you are no longer turing on the side cut radius but rather the flex of the core. O.O
You have perfectly described why I have historically preferred boards with larger (~8.0) sidecut radius and longer (1200+) effective edge, only I didn't know the geometry. This also explains why I LOVED my '95 Santa Cruz XXX 155, which had an effective edge of 1250. I'd love it if someone did the calculations to demonstrate that relationship between the edge angle, sidecut radius, effective edge and the actual turning arc of a given carve.
Hello there ! Very interesting and informative video Lars. I'm also quite a snowboard nerd myself so your video got me thinking (and it also got me doing maths!). First, I want to say I'm a fan of your work and I don't want to be rude or anything, but I would like to challenge one of your statement. The goal here is just to deepen my comprehension and snowboarding pleasures ! When you said that a longer effective edge allows for a greater range of turn radius, that felt like en enlightement to me, but then, I look at the equations for the radius of the turn in relation to the sidecut radius, and that is simply: Rturn = Rsidecut*cos(edge_angle). In other words, this doesn't use the effective length at all. For a longer effective edge an a given edge angle, it's true that you can flex the board more, but that doesn't result in a tighter turning radius. However, a bigger deflection puts more pressure on the edge because of the board stiffness, so it probably gives a different feeling or allow for an even greater edging angle without skidding, which would be an explanation of why you felt that a longer effective edge gives a tighter radius. That's my argument for now, I'm looking forward to hearing back from you on this matter. Cheers !
You’re correct. And you I’m going to make a video where I will correct this. Someone else already brought this up. The reality is that the flex in combination with sidecut radius of the board is the limit to turn tightness. Except for that statement, I think the video is still pointing out the right thing. I say at one point that changing EE would call for changing the flex, too. However, what you are pointing out is absolutely correct!! Thanks for the comment!!
So I guess they should add this as another parameter of the board - sidecut depth. Of course you can calculate it by yourself, because they tell the widht in the waist and the widths in the widest point at nose and tail.
Thanks for the comment! All these numbers are somewhat relative. None of them alone tells you much. Technically effective edge and radius are enough to get an idea about how deep a sidecut is - and really, all you want to find out (if one actually wants to find out.....) is something about the range of turns a board can carve cleanly. But therefore you need a reference board! And that should be YOUR reference board. My idea behind giving this info is really to empower people to make their own educated decision on a board. If you have a board with a 120cm effective edge and an 8m radius, and you like it, that could be your reference. Seeing the same EE on a 9m radius is a board that has less range. Seeing the 8m on a board with more EE is a board with a larger range. Sidecut depth as a number is kid of irrelevant. But I had to explain it so people realize what that all really means and says about how a board rides.
Great video, and great videos. I've been railing turns since 1990 or so--since it started, really, on both hard boots and soft--and have given turning and board design that many years' of hard thought. I am struggling with the notion that, given equal sidecut radii, more effective edge increases the envelope of potential turn radii. In my conceptualization, the radius of turn resulting from a given radius sidecut is a function of board angulation and flex; increasing or decreasing effective edge length changes the length of edge contacting snow as that turn is made, but it doesn't change the envelope of potential turn radii. Said differently, as I see it, the increase of sidecut depth that results from increasing effective edge, given constant sidecut radius, is the result that effective edge tracing a larger length of circle, and thus more of that circle's curvature, but it does not change the circle itself (or, therefore, the sidecut radius, or the range of possible resultant turn radii). Of course, now we're into physics, and I could be completely wrong. Thanks again -- very provocative and fun.
Thanks for the comment! Increasing EE will give a board of the same radius greater potential to bend the board simply because of the increased space between sidecut centre and ground. So you can bend such a board further than the same board with less EE.
Just look at different sizes of the same board - as the board (and so the EE) gets longer, the side-cut radius gets larger as well, to compenate and give the same *relative* curvature so to speak. Take a small globe and the actual earth as example - they are the same thing, just in two (quite) different sizes. Their curvature relative to their size is the same, yet the globe has a small radius while the earths surface looks almost straight when both put next to each other.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Great minds think alike, they say. 😀 Some riding together would sure be a blast! Feel free to let me know about your Europe trip plans.
Hi Lars! I have learned so much from your videos breaking down snowboard specs. I've noticed some manufacturer spec sheets have multiple numbers for the sidecut radius. Could you help me understand what this means and how it effects the ride? Thank you in advance!
Thanks and great question! I'll make a full episode on this. But to answer the question: there are radial sidecuts (a part taken out of one single circle with the same radius) and blended sidecut radii... Tip and tail radii manipulate the turn entry and exit. So companies play with that depending on how they want the board to ride at a certain stage of the turn. You're supposed to shift your weight from front foot to back foot through the turn, and when you do so, this all makes sense. :-)
Great video, looking forward to the rest of the series (or the two hour version 😉). First two nitpicks: A snowboarder telling another to do a eurocarve *is* actually asking him to do a trick not to carve. Europeans less confusingly also call it the Vitelli turn, and its a laydown with weight on your hands and you "crouch" into it by going deep first with little board angulation. Unlike a similarly deep carve its not G-force allowing the high board angulation. Please stick to the term side-cut radius like used in board spec sheets instead of saying "turn radius" like sometimes in the video. Now for the nerdy stuff to dig deeper... 😀 One thing to expand on is non-radial side-cuts. The other thing I thought about, is the actual resulting formulas for (for now radial side-cuts) this. The effective edge being the length of a circle arc, yok can put effective edge and side-cut radius put in relation and also calculate that side-cut depth. Now would the depth be a good comparison figure? Do different sizes of the same board when designed to carve exactli the same have the same depth? At first one may think yes, but I am currently not sure. The actual curve the board rides is a three dimensional blend of the side-cut radius in one plane and the curve of the flexed board in another perpendicular plane. Is the adaption of the side-cut radius to a changed length enough to get the same resulting 3D curve, or would not the curve how the board is flexed also have to be (or better be) adapted in the same/similar proportion? If so, that should also mean different depth. 🤔
I know Vitelli turn, named after Serge Vitelli, as a full circle carve! I'm just trying to state that carving is simply a way - or maybe THE way - to ride a snowboard, and that many riders out there instead of learning to carve all the way down a mountain simply claim they're carving because they can do on single toe turn and then call it 'Eurocarving'.... You're right, I should say sidecut radius. I purposefully didn't do that, because I wanted to separate sidecut depth from sidecut radius... So I called it turn radius. But you're right, that causes confusion. In regards to non radial sidecut: as I said in my introduction, this is one part, there will be more. YOU already get the whole thing. But YOU are technically not my audience at all. I have to simplify and build up... The sidecut depth to me in this episode is simply a relative figure that gives information about the possible range of cleanly carved turns of a given board. I'm not connecting it to any numbers or definite figures. A deeper sidecut does, however, result from a longer effective edge or a tighter sidecut radius on a given edge length.... Really, all I'm saying here is that the radius number alone does not tell you how tightly a board can turn - and my Stranda Cheater 200 is the perfect example for that. I'm sure you actually understand what I'm trying to say. Let's not make it overly complicated! Peace!! :-)
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Ah, gotcha where you're coming from with te Eurocarve. Yeah, I got whot your idea was with the depth, but I was thinking further. Like with the math at hand to from the specs of one size board calculate how a different size of that same board would need to be specced, one could also predict the difference between different boards (of same type) of different sizes (when not available in the same ones) more precisely, especially when they are not radically different and any guesstimate would be no better than "they are both carving boards, they probably both carve well". I do and always will favor try before you buy and actually demoing boards whenever possible, but those opportunities are rare.
When you say longer will go tighter if you don't change anything (at minute 7) ... Yeah, but you will have a much wider board in the tips wich at one point will be maybe unrideable... So, as the longer boards usualy have the same width in the tips and center as the others in the family, they automatically flatten the sidecut the longer they get. If you want a longer board with less radius you need a more agressiv sidecut = a bigger difference between centre and tip width. Another thing that stands out from this video is the fact that, for best geometrical sidecut turning you should have the smallest stand width possible and weight centered in order to put max weight in the center for board flexing. The legend that you have to lean forward to carv actualy is a misunderstanding of why you have to lean forward 😁
Your comment doesn't sound friendly with that emoji in the end, but I'll try to answer anyways... - What I'm saying at min 7 is hypothetical to make people understand what I mean - Yes, the boards become wider in the tips, yes there is a limit to that. - Longer boards do also become wider in the tips in general, they're not the same, as their waist is also not the same. They grow on all ends. - It's obvious that you bend a board better when you're more in the centre..... You still have to get the board high on edge in the first place, or else you can't even compress the centre when the board is on edge. - The legend is not a legend and forward pressure is crucial to many things. One is that you need to stay on top of the board and don't want the board to ever get ahead of you. The other thing is that the nose sets the path for the rest of the edge to follow, so you're digging that trench with your front foot! Thanks for the comment, I hope I could help.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel I'm sorry you consider my comment agresiv. It was absolutely not my intent. In carving, the edge is blocked in the snow, so more pressure on the front than on the back would not make the board turn. As you correctly say, the carving turn is made by the flexing of the board , when tilted, until the center digs in the snow. At that point , the only way to modify your radius is to tilt more/less the board in order to bend it more/less. Fir example, if you go too much forwards or too much backwards with the pressure, you will degrade your turn. Going forward is in order to compensate the slope and acceleration. It would be interesting for somebody like you, with a big carving level, to test the consequences of extremely wide stance vs extremely narrow stance in carving turns. I bet the narrow wins... Only talking about pure carving turns! Again, sorry for the apparently agresiv comment.
@@dinubunica thanks! Glad we clarified this! I agree 100%. I ride a rather narrow stance for my height, 53cm mostly (21"). When I say 'forward' I'm not talking about the entire turn... I'm slowly moving onto the backfoot through the turn. But I start every turn on the front foot with forward pressure, and my upper body always hinges forward from the hip. Weight distribution through the feet is a micro movement for me. Thanks again for replying! I really appreciate that! The written word is sometimes hard to interpret!! Sorry for my assumption above!!
Of course. You're not compressing the camber and you're not pushing into the sidecut with the same force as you do on groomers. Less resistance from the snow then also leads to more drifted turns.
Found your channel because I was searching about stranda snowboards, like your channel. Do you have experience on the shorty? Would be nice if you can make a video about it. Also the bowlrider, found not much about it. Also your opinion about hardboot/softboot splitboarding would be maybe interesting.
I love my Shorty! It's an amazing pow board with a freeride heart, comfortable at speed but also in the trees when it gets tight. On groomers it blew my mind... More grip than most dedicated softboot carving boards out there. Really strong edge hold and great vibration dampening. Bowlrider has a tighter radius and is a little softer. More nimble of a board with a lower speed limit. Otherwise, same fun in pow and on groomers. I splitboard in hardboots. Atomic Backland Expert, no modifications. Plum bindings. It's perfect! I'll never go back! Uphill is 200% more efficient, downhill is very quick and easy to get used to. Hope that helps!
Hello Lars. Can you please help me? I choose a snowboard and decided on two options Capita DOA and Borealis Tundra. Both fine to me, but Tundra has effective edge 118cm while DOA in same length is 128cm. I wanted Tundra more but doesnt know will this 117cm effective edge will good for me. Im 188 cm tall and 75kg. Please help me🙏
More EE is simply more grip and less nimble.... So really, pick your poison! 128 and 117 on the same length is a big difference. Looking at the shapes of those two boards I can't figure out how there can be an 11cm difference, hmmmmm.... Also, I know nothing about Borealis as a brand. Capita are pretty well made these days.
in the example of the two boards near the end, you say the free ride board is technically capable of shorter turns. however, it sounds like it takes more effort to do so, is that correct?
What I was trying to say is that the freeride board being the shorter board of the two with the smaller turn radius (7.6m) is likely gonna turn larger when fully tipped on edge than the longer powder shape with a 7.9m radius, because the pow board has a longer effective edge, which gives it a deeper sidecut and therewith more room to push into the centre and tighten up the turn. It is confusing, isn't it?!
@@Justaride-Snowboard-ChannelTo lessen the confusion, you should really stick to saying side-cut radius when you talk about that very board spec, and not "turn radius", as thot sounds as if you were referring to the radius of the actual turn.
I’d love to see people’s reactions to that massive board in lift lines and in gondolas. you also don’t seem like a big guy. The look of shock on there faces 😂
love your channel and videos. They are very helpful ! I was looking at an all mountain freestyle board such as Rome Party Mod vs Rome Agent. They have almost same flex. Rome Party Mod 157W ( because I’m a UK size 11 ) Zero camber to rocker at tips Effective edge 124.7cm Sidecut radius 8.06m Rome Agent 158W Positive Camber to rocker at tips Effective edge 122.8cm Sidecut radius 8.22m Despite being shorter and zero camber party mod has a longer effective edge and almost same sidecut radius. Would you say party mode has more turning range options than Rome agent based on this ? Thank you so much
Ultimately depends on your ability level in regards to tipping the board over. The difference is quite minimal, I'm not sure you'd notice. Also never ridden Rome. Sorry!
Let's stay with side cut radius, side cut dept will vary with effective edge so it doesn't mean anything. It's the leverage outside your stance vs. space between your feet... If theres no tip or tail it won't turn, because you won't be able to load the center and decamber it... The only reason you'd want to know the sidewall depth, is if you dint know the radius and would have to calculate it. : D
I'm not saying you need to know sidecut depth as a number. But it is a THE indicator of how big of a range of various turn sizes a board can produce. Explaining that was part of why I made this video. You can have boards with a deeper sidecut but larger radius than others - solely because of a much longer effective edge. Sometimes that can even lead to a board that despite its larger radius can be turned tighter than another board with a smaller turn radius....
@@Justaride-Snowboard-ChannelYeah, an example for the latter would be Jamie Lynn's Lib Tech Short Wide (from before they made it longer) with a seemingly short sidecut of 5.8 m, which however, given it is a 147 cm short board, rides surprisingly normal like your usual 7.5-8 m sidescut. Compared to that, the Jones Freecarver 6000s side-cut of 6.7 m at 158 cm seems less short, but with that length and the particular long effective edge it rides really different from a middle of the road side-cut.
@@elho001 That's too funny... My nerd friend Spenser referenced the same board (Jamie Lynn) to me last night in regards to this video! Hahaha.... Yeah, you're right on the money with all you say!! Thanks for contributing!!
@@martykasa7864 you're missing my point! It doesn't tell me anything, and I never said it would. It's the sum of the things - and you can't take sidecut depth out of that equation to draw a conclusion. What's the EE and what are the radii for those boards? Then we can talk!
This was really interesting thanks Lars, you explained it very clearly. After skiing for ten years your video on double posi stance got me bqck on q board this week. My board is a ten year old lib tec attack banana and although i can get a carve out if it, its clearly not the tool for the job. Do you have any suggestions for a board for an intermediate snowboarder to start out carving? I am 45 snowboarded for a week or two a year for 20 years went to the dark side for ten years and now am back to boarding. I am 65kg and 180 cm
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channelwow thanks for the quick reply... I was half expecting not to hear from you. I am 42.5 euro boot size so pretty small I will ride only one or two weeks a year and I don't really mind what I spend. I would rather buy the right thing once!
@@wingnutLP1 Okay.... so do you want a dedicated softboot carving board, or an allmountain board that carves well and also rides powder and such? Asking because of size...
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel This is a great question! The answer is probably one of each, I am going to sell my board and ski gear and commit to the carve! I think I need something directional for piste and powder that can carve and something that I can dedicate to on piste. I should add that the resort I ski is in Switzerland and does not have super wide blue runs that you see more often in the USA and maybe Canada (I have never been to Canada unfortunately).
Couple of questions: What size Shorty do you ride and do you have any issues with controlling the board at slower speeds. I think you indicated you weigh about 130 pounds??? Also, how durable are their sidewalls and top sheets. I believe the website says they use a glossy polyurethane. Most glossy top boards I've had in the past seem to get beat up pretty easily. Thanks
I ride a 164W Shorty at 138 lbs. It is torsionally on the stiffer side so it requires more input at slower speeds. But the nose rocker makes it very forgiving and it never hooks up, so it's not really a problem. I find it very versatile. It is designed to be ridden longer. I'm 176cm/5'9.5" and the 159 feels too short for me. I like the stability of a linger board. Sidewalls are super good! Topsheet lacquer coating is obviously fragile when encountering steel edges in the lift lines or rocks.
@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel so do you think a 159 would be the correct board for someone shorter than you at 5'7", 140 lbs with a size 8 boot or go with the 164?
@@Darrelllcho you can go either way! In this case it's preference and riding level. I have a friend, who is a highly skilled rider. He's probably 5'5" or 5'6", 150 lbs and rides the 164..... He needs the length to move fore aft and be supported in that direction.
Hello Justaride! Thank you so much on information you are sharing. One question, does Stranda have discount if you are licenced snowboard instructor? i would like to try that board you are showing.
Thank you very much!! I appreciate that! You can email Stranda with your license and proof of employment, and they may sort you out with some form of a discount. But you need to be employed and on snow! Cheers!
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Will do! your last video about carving technique helped me alot. Was able to do deep heel side carves on my first thay this year!
Let's be real: I would love to! Then I'm gonna tolk it over to My Wife for at least 4 hours more😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 I with My snowboard bibs and boots on Me in the kitchen making dinner...😂😂😂
Could be! Haven't ridden one. Burton runs by that formula.... I tried Hometown Hero and Deep Thinker, and I'd have to ride them in a 152 to be able to bend the tips at full board angulation. Wild!!
The old Bezerker (like about 10 years ago) sure was stiff as hell. Zero chance to butter (as in actually press, not Knapton nose roll), you would have rather braken your bindings (or lower legs) before flexing that thing. The more recent ones are supposed to be a lot better.
@@martykasa7864While that sure is among the stiffest boards out there, at least Knapton himself rides a long radius, ie. a shallow side-cut, not a deep one.
@@elho001 Yeah man, right on the money once again! His actual board I don't think they'd even make that for anyone, hahaha.... Imagine some 'Eurocarver', who can't actually tip the board on edge properly gets loose on an 18m radius on a bunny hill... Hide your kids, hide your wife!
@@thetube4p Aah! Ok! Hmmm.... to be honest, I wouldn't feel overly confident talking about that. It's more of a guess from all the things I do understand. I think a smaller radius is beneficial for gripped turns. I'd also say that full camber is NOT beneficial since the heavy grip in the tips probably over-engages. Of course it can all be done... But from a functionality standpoint I'd say for gripped turns a board with a normal or even slightly shorter than average effective edge (average, relatively to the board's length...), early rise tips, camber between the feet and a rather tight radius would feel better and easier to ride.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel I think your theory is on point for easing the physical demands and hooky nature of camber in slower gripped turns in moguls or other locations requiring very tight radius turns. Boards with shorter EE to length ratio, short radius sidecut and early rise or 3D shaping do enter a skid easy, add maneuverability, and aren't as insistent on tracking straight nose to tail initially. But I find these don't do "high speed" gripped turns easily due to the risk of actually skidding/washing out and dropping speed. Sometimes these decks can't even do medium speed gripped turns without slowing themselves. It may be that the deeper measured sidecut depth on a shorter radius is prone to kick out or skip across the snow surface without maintaining full contact. Anyway I slice it, there is a very small margin for error at high speeds before washing out these decks. For high speed trenching I find full camber longer EE longer radius sidecut on a stiff longer board is very physically demanding to start breaking the traction/grip (of course it can all be done!) and I sometimes end up carving pencil thin when I hoped to displace/spray/trench/lay a gripped turn on a feature. Literally can't get loose sometimes, too much carve, especially as I get tired or if the snow is very hard. This setup excels though at long drawn out gripped turns at high speed "in fresh snow or corduroy" and can do medium gripped turns, but slow gripped turns are near impossible. The high speed allows it to break loose easier and once I'm there, the board can handle the power of the turn, dig better, track straighter nose to tail, drive the tail in, and exit the turn with most of the speed I started with or more, which is my goal. But it's exhausting driving that tail in. I can carve all day on this board without fatigue, but smashing features is too tempting. So in search of striking a balance between 1. not being exhausted so I can ride another day, and 2. not slowing due to skidding on short radius less cambered softer decks, I just compromised and got a full camber semi-volume shift deck with shorter overall length than my normal rides, fairly high EE to length ratio, middling progressive radius, and med-soft flex for me (med-stiff for most). This board has been the ticket for gripped turns at slow and medium speeds in back-to-back days of riding without too much fatigue. It only skids when I tell it to. The softer flex allows me to overcome the front end over-engaging nature of camber, and the softer tail doesn't wear on me as much. On empty resort days I'll go back to the stiff board and open it up for high speed gripped turns ... when I can handle the workout. Any thoughts? Appreciate you and anyone who nerds out on snowboards!
@@thetube4p Lots of great points. Cool to see someone reflect on their setup and riding style this much!! I'm not a skidder, so I can't say too much about that. But I think you're spot on here.
I guess my heavy German accent gives it away...... it's not my mother tongue, ha! I haven't been able to find the English term that actually describes what I'm trying to say. According to the language used in the Canadian Ski Instructor Association (damn skiers... ;-)) they don't use either one of them for the ski but only for what the body does. Referring to the ski on snow they seemingly say 'tip over the ski more!', when they want to say what I'm trying to express by saying 'increase board angulation'. Thanks for the comment! Learning something new every day! :-)
