Totally! The issue is that icy requires a narrower board, but is also the higher consequence when booting out. I do the same thing and then put risers under the bindings on those narrower boards on a firm day. I pinned your comment!! This is great, because in the video I made it sound like you should ride wider when it's firm.... That's not how I meant that, and that's a bummer that it came out that way.
Thank you for yet another great video! I'd love it if you could set up a colab with Ryan Knapton and "pick his brain" sort of speak on why and how he rides the way he does and how he ended up riding the boards he does, so that people understand better that even in his case it was a learning process that lead him to ride the boards he does. As far as I can tell he is someone that can nerd out on technical board "stuff" and I can see you two going for a couple of hours in blissful discussion on the matter and the comments be like "we need more"... All the best and ride safe.
100% agree go big or go home approach. get the ultimate best for the ultimate steepest, and work your skill up, but that will allow it to do so. i made this misake and now chewing my 3rd board in 2 years because my ability dramatically increases and realizeing there are gear problems im facing not ability problems anymore. so get the best stuff get go, save yourself lot of hurt both financial and physical.
Sorry, agree with who? I hope I didn't say 'get the ultimate best for the ultimate steepest', because that's not really what I believe... That approach works for some and doesn't work at all for others. It's so much more complicated than just buying the wildest gear. But I'm glad for you that you're figuring out your ways!! That's what it's all about.
I have ridden various freeride boards for most of my riding life and for many years I rode a Burton Supermodel with a 24.5" waist. I had a break from the sport and when I returned it seemed the world had gone wider! In my required board length 24.5" didn't really exist any more as far as I could tell across the boards I was interested in. I settled on a board with a 26.5" waist and I'm glad I did not go any wider. The edge change is a little lazy in comparison to my old board (I noticed that immediately) and it required a small adjustment to my carving. I no longer have any boot-out issues at 26.5" though so that's a good thing! I also went for new boots along with the wider board and went for something very stiff to protect my ankles which have had some damage over the years - I'm sure that has had an effect on how the edge change feels also.
There’s is a functional waist width for everyone. Yeah, the Supermodels were narrow… And sometimes manufacturers do make it quite difficult to match length and width to what one needs… Glad you’ve been able to adjust! ✌️👍
totally spot on. I ride a Salomon 2018 ultimate ride 155 with 254mm waist width. Manage to scrape my butt on heel side with size 8 mens boots. One thing, I think, that also comes into play when picking board width, is the shell size of the boots. Im rocking Vans and Adidas, which is said to be having the smallest shell in the industry. Shell size can go up by 1 or 1.5 if I go with DC, K2. Ie the shell size of Adidas 9.5 is almost the same as DC size 8.
I've coined the term 'booting-in' to describe when you have toe or heel drag, but are not losing edge grip as apposed to 'booting-out' when this same drag puts you on your butt or face. As long as I already have established good edge pressure before reaching that high edge angle I'm likely to boot-in rather than boot-out
33.5cm waist width and 20m sidecut for me these days, 11.5 boots and duck stance. Most people, including instructors and some brand ambassadors i've met, can't really ride my board (carving on edge or moguls/trees). It's perfect for me riding regular or switch on all terrain, trees, moguls, steep groomers, etc, but wouldn't recommend those specs for 99% of riders. Disclaimer: I've been riding 32cm+ waist boards slowly working up sidecut radius over 7 years now and used to average close to 100 days a season.
I totally hear ya! Great comment!! You're realistic, and you know your place. I appreciate that you're reflected on this topic and don't run around recommending this setup as a generally good idea for carving.... :-) The key is '7 years, 100 days each'!! Love that!! People need to understand that carving is a journey... a long one.... And the gear can and will change as you go.... But it's mostly the rider, that's where it starts. Board hardly matters at the beginning of this trip.
Thanks for saying this. Ive seen a lot of people who are new to carving but think they need a board thats wider at just the waist that their foot. Its just a miserable time. At size 8 i need to find boards that are as long as i like without being too wide.
Thanks so much for taking the time to share your positive, technical and always informative content. A great resource of useable information. Keep up the great work!
Once again you are right on ! I was a solid carver, and I became tired of booting out on my heel side turns and not getting the same thrills on heel side compared to my toe side turns. So I got an Amplid Big Kahuna , 29 cm width under foot , 27,6 waist compare to my Burton Big Gulp , at close to 28cm under foot and a 26.5 waist width. Well, after four sessions , I still struggle to properly put it on edge, and when the terrain is rough and uneven, I am so much more efficient on the Big Gulp ( also the side cut as a lot to do with it ) . I will not give up because I did not had a really good carving condition day yet and I still recuperate from my total knee replacement. So the journey to great carving is still on ! Thank you once again for this fantastic channel ! Cheers Lars ! 😏
Thanks Martin!! Yeah, I hear ya! This whole channel is literally solely here to inspire people to do their own work... and from my experience it's the very few that really gain something from those partially silly wide boards. Glad you're feeling things out! Way to go!
Yet another great informative video. It’s obvious that you’re reading comments and answering them in upcoming videos, which is so helpful. Running out of talent is a bigger problem for me than running out of boardwidth now that I’ve tried a few, 270 for size 11 is fine for me, I’m definitely going backwards in skills anyway 😂
Thank you so much! Yeah, 270 sounds about right. You might get to needing a 280 or 285 eventually... But you're on the right track. Don't go there, if it' not obviously needed.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel tried the 280, not enough time to persist with it but I’ll try it again for sure. I think length is a bit short though 😆😆😆. It’s all good though, made a lot of improvements through just trying all this stuff out, risers, boards, but angles and boots was one of the biggest, and it’s all been fun. Thanks for all your information sharing, best kit and set-up advice out there particularly for us posi types.
I started carving in soft boots a long time ago. I ride about 90 days a year, and have some carving skills. At first I used a European board F2 Eliminator for boardcross, but it was narrow, I put crazy angles, then I bought a Nidecker Tracer snowboard - the board was softer and had a fancy assisetric shape, but it became possible to put smaller angles on it. Now I decided to experiment and bought a Bataleon Party wave plus with a width of 28.1 cm in the middle of the board. The shoes don't stick out of the board at all. The board is in the middle of the road, about 6 out of 10, it shakes slightly on the bumps, but I easily coped with its width, and I think the radius there is 8 meters. My conclusion is that a wide and suitable board is not bad.
...and as you described: You are clearly an advanced rider who can handle this!! Had you been on this board on day #1 of carving, things would have been a little wild, I think... :-) Bataleon is not ideal for edge grip in my opinion - in particular when you know what the F2 Eliminator can do!! That board has always been a weapon right from day #1.
@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Yes, the bataleon just caught my eye in a boardshop and I bought it by accident, for the sake of experiment, mainly because of the width. It doesn't cling to the slope so sharply, of course, a spoon on it nose, raised edges, and irs only 157. But the idea of a wide board is revealed. I still have the F2 Eliminator, I have a 161, 12-13 model, already with a rocker in the nose, although the effective length of the edge is large, of course. It's a pity that they are wide from 166, as far as I remember.
Wide is a big factor, but to me a board too long is a bigger factor. So im into volume shifted boards. I had a 27 at a 161, but i got a new board at a 27 waist now at a 152 and I'm loving the board. I can go pow and carve groomers, once i dialed down my turns and get the skills up. Then i can truly unlock the power of my board.........in a few years 😬
Love the scott story. Been on superwides and ye it works. But its alot of work so i backed of and are more happy on 264-268 waist whit little or no taper.
As a carving enthousiast with 29,5cm boots, finding something near a 29cm width underfoot is like finding an needle in a haystack. There barely are any production models that would allow me to get steep edge angles without having to run crazy binding angles to avoid boot drag
It's tough! I totally agree that there's a gap in the market. Very difficult for companies, since you're unfortunately in the minority. Check out James Cherry, Donek and Exegi. They got you covered!!
Another great video Lars and very well explained. My board is a 26.2 waist and I've yet to get far enough that 'Ive booted out. If I do maybe I'll consider something wider, or maybe just go to the dark side and 😂👍
Great video Lars, I agree with everything in this video. I have the cheater 170w and find it perfect for my size 9. I do have a new donek with a 29cm waist (and a 30.4cm, which is too much for me) and although I love it, it is a lot of work. It rewards you when you put the work in though. Zero heel drag no matter what is nice, as I can get heels to drag on cheater if I really lean on steeps. I find myself gravitating towards cheater as it’s the perfect balance for me. I have t-plates from Japan that add a bit more clearance and even more dampening and the combo of cheater and plates is 💦 Will be in Fernie this weekend, hope to see you there 🤘
This video relieved some of the anxiety I got with debating the sizing I got for my Korua Cafe Racer 159. (21 -6 stance, size 10.5 at 80kg) Their sizing chart and customer service suggested this size. Now to see if I do or do not boot out on my turns this friday, or if I really wanted that extra 8mm of width from the 164.
Koruas have tons of taper making the boards relatively narrow under the critical foot - the back foot.... Hope you'll be fine! Rider weight is not an issue here. You can ride the 164, too. Don’t mean to confuse you… Korua is a little weird. They put vastly different amounts of taper on the same model in the different lengths. Makes no sense the way they do it. Seems entirely random. The 156 is the OG cafe racer, and I still thinks it’s the most functional one with its 14mm taper.
I'm anxious, but it's still around 70 degrees of angulation I should be able to reach with the 2cm of overhang I've got. More if I were to change the angle on my back foot. No sense worrying about it until I hit the snow.
Another take on the subject might be : try to ride steeper angles every year. Go from 27... 30... up to 42 over the years.... The rear foot from 9 to 12 to 18. Same effects of being able to boot out later.... Plus better forward facing positioning on the board and better butt positioning. Reducing the stance width also helps a lot for having more freedom of positioning choices and bending the board in the center of the radius.
Hahaha, yeah.... I would have also saved you a learning experience for yourself!! :-) Those are much stronger than some Lars telling you stuff... ;-) Thanks for the kind words!
In 10.5 US (43.5 EU) boots and Korua cafe racer with 276 mm waist, I boot out if I wanna rly lay out and be super low on a carve. I ride +30 +18 and i set my stance on closest possible inserts (narrow). I am not feeling like its difficult to ride it like that so I am considering maybe a wider board or just to try wider stance although i rly like the feeling i get in a turn with narrow stance. Love your, videos so much valuable info! keep it up!
Of course you boot out!!! That board has so much taper that it's much narrower under the back foot than the 276mm waist suggests! That is exactly what I explained with underfoot width... I talk about this in many videos.
Is your boot centred across the board with equal toe and heel overhang? Watch my video on ‘functional waist width’. It will help. Hopefully it translates.
I have big feet(46-47 depending on boots) and the widest board I own is a 277 waist width I have yet to boot out on aggressive carves. The only time things are a little off for me are on my 270 ww board where off groomers I catch my back toes once in a awhile
It's tough! I totally agree that there's a gap in the market. Very difficult for companies, since you're unfortunately in the minority. Check out James Cherry, Donek and Exegi. They got you covered!!
Since Scott paid me to analyze three videos over a certain time span to see improvements, it would be a bit of a 'dick move' to tell you here in public what he needs to do... :-) I hope that's understandable.
so in your opinion the rough formula for the average joe resort rider is max 2.5 cm overhang of the boot over both heel and toe edge of the board with the boot placed optimally centered in a correctly mounted binding, right? your channel is a very informative source on my recent little nerd journey through snowboard equipment. another source of mine is a german snowboarding online forum (i'm german myself), in which the members recommend the following rough formula: outer boot length - 5cm = minimum waist width. following that forum's formula, basically every rider above a us 10.5 size boot would have to get a board wider than 270 waist width, which is a size many macturers don't build at all, not even for their longer modells (if I did my research correctly not even Burton does that despite being by far the biggest snowboarding company). So that forum's take seems like quite a steep assumption to me. made me question though, what kind of width I should look out for, given that I want to get the Burton Ruler Step On in size us 11 (rode the rental version for 8 days this season and they were a good fit, while being much smaller than the boots I bought a few years back). the step on bidings are said to be quite big in the needed size L, but the bindings footprint is significantly smaller than my old Union Force season 2015/16 (which I've never been a fan of) and it fits my current snowboard. My current snowboard has a waist width of 263. What's your opinion on that? And on that mentioned forum's rough formula?
The Forum is actually pretty much spot on. Their suggestion leaves you with 2cm overhang on each side at 0° backfoot angle - roughly! Depending on angles that'll shrink 2 to 8 mm or so... My 2.5cm are a max. Depending on angles that's fine. The issue with StepOn and carving is the super fat heel cup that holds the mechanism. You'll hit the heel cup eventually. Your 263 waist is pushing the low limits hard. 268 is more appropriate... or even 270. And yes, there should be more wider boards and yes, they've been too narrow forever... :-)
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel wow you answered really quick and in careful detail, I'm once more impressed by your expertise. I'll link your channel in that forum, as your information and their takes really do line up. yeah I realised I was pushing width limits, when I took a closer look at my board after informing myself online. What's weird to me, that while my feet aren't small they are certainly not abnormably large. more like slightly above average. yet there are only very few boards with an appropriate waist width for my size. I'm wondering what folks with truly large feet are doing. finding a boot and especially a wide enough board is gonna be super hard for them. thanks for the input, surely helps me on my casual search through the heavy spring discounts right now.
@@derg6222 You are entirely correct... It's a bit of a joke how snowboard sizes are being offered. I've been in this industry in a position where I get to talk to companies for over a decade, and I've been saying this to many people 'up there' for all this time... They simply don't care... And now that there's wider boards, of course they're overall smaller - Short-Fats or Volume Shifted boards....It's a nightmare! One of my motivations for this channel is literally to get people to think so they can demand more appropriate gear. It's after all always about money. But some things are simply silly... Like some boards come in 2cm increments in length.... What for?! It would make much more sense to go in 5cm increments, which is actually noticeable, and therefore offer three widths in the popular lengths and two widths in the not so popular lengths (like narrow and mid wide in the short lengths / mid wide and wide in the long lengths / all three widths in the popular spectrum). Boards should also not top out at 164. 174 would be more appropriate! It's funny seeing some big guys freeriding on a 162. They don't even know how much better that could feel... This would mean that we might have less models, but therefore more size options. That's the difficult way for a company! Much easier to overwhelm everyone with models than really designing a small, concise line of boards that all have a different purpose. Boards would also go up in price, I think. But the people that are affected by this (which are many) would surely appreciate finally riding a better size board. My personal conspiracy is that boards have become shorter and shorter while prices keep going up (not much, but still...), which means less money spent on materials, or compensation for material price increase, while still making good margins. Not easy to solve this, but it's very real! A 150 costs the same as a 164 in a given model. Pushing shorter and shorter boards means more money in the bank. The performance loss for certain ways of riding is insanely high. Plus, the downside of this whole short-fat trend is: what about all the people with small feet???? Hahaha... As long as snowboards are regarded as toys with ever changing graphics, I'm not gonna win this battle... :-)
hi Lars, amazing content here and elsewhere on your channel! Have a hypothetical question here. If, to accommodate a wider board, I use a slightly bigger boot e.g. half a size or one size up (which will then meet the 15mm overhang each side); will I actually get more leverage over my edges? Thx!
Thanks for the kind words! No, you won’t. Leverage comes from the foot size, not the boot size. You might actually lose leverage due to some play between foot and boot.
Do you have recommendations for wider boards for people with big feet. I'm in the market for a wider board for my size 13 feet. I just hit the point last season to where i was starting to boot out on my beginner board with 26.6cm waist width. It is so hard to find anything that is wider than that, that isn't a hard charging freeride board or specialized powder board. Searching online there are a lot of people asking that same question but not many answers. It might be a good video idea. I really appreciate your videos.
@@kwchalky02 ...and K2 is like Ride... half a size smaller than how they fit. In a Burton you'll likely need a UK 12. Same foot print as the K2 in UK 11.5.
Good views on board width! Just a question on the board angle for "expert" carvers. Is really 90 degrees of tilting the board the optimal and desired angle? Looking at the elite of alpine snowboard racers, who should be the real experts, they don't tilt the board up to 90 degrees as that's quite ineffective for edge grip.
Great question! There's no desired angle.... I agree with you!! I'm using that number as the maximum possible angle, which some people really want to be able to utilize, which is actually not that functional for riding with good flow...
Another great video Lars! I now have 2 boards, one for hard icy conditons and one for softer conditions. I really struggled on my wide, stiff freeride board on the ice! Would be intersted in your thoughts on turning radius V edge angle. The steeper your edge angle, the tighter your turn will be, but surely theres limits to this? When considering rider weight and speed. I modelled my Burton One Hitter in some CAD software and my turning radius decreases alot when the board is past a 45deg edge angle. I cant see how i can achieve a high edge angle, and such a tight turn when riding at speed?
It's all about board flex!!! Burton - sorry Burton - has THE WORST flex for carving. The Squeeze Box technology, which almost everyone has adopted in one way or another, where they mill the core thinner in the middle and leave the tips thick (Burton are next level with thick tips!!) is the Anti Christ for carving :-) The tips need to keep bending as you put the board higher on edge. I literally can't carve on a Hometown Hero or Deep Thinker AT ALL. Suddenly I'm on my face.... It's the tips refusing to bend and then lift the centre off the snow..... So I'd have to go to tiny sizes to have the right flex - like a 152. And then obviously the centre flex would be way too soft. There is a deep reason for my choice being Stranda. Narrower stance options, insane understanding of blending flex, sidecut, taper, effective edge camber and core profile... It's an art an a science to make a good carver, and really, Burton make great freestyle boards, but that's it.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Wow thanks for the reply. I never realised this! Explains alot! I've already ditched the EST bindings, maybe its time to ditch the board too...
No, I don't. That's a good point and should be fixed with better binding choice rather than going for a wider board. This is one of the many reasons I ride NOW for.
hi... 5.7 Ibs and boot 9 ...190 lbs ...ex carving no problem..+24/+9 or 12....looking for new board and I should go for cafe racer 159 with 269 w/w or 164 with 276 w/w ....please let me know what is your opinion. tnx
@@zoheirjavaheri1605 ....obviously this is overly simplified advice!!! 164 is a big board for your height if it was your go to tree slayer..... It all depends on the desired outcome!
You don’t NEED that width. Whether it’s too big for you depends on you and the way and where and in what conditions you ride. My videos are guidelines with physical facts. I’ve heard many people say that they don’t notice a particularly large waist the way other people do… If you like the way the board rides, there’s nothing wrong.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel yeh, that's the reason why I have it, I like it, and it's fun to ride for ME. I also have custom X and like it very much, but when I tested Biru, apart from side slipping nearly impossible, which is not what I really need to do, it felt great, and totally different to custom X, that's why I bought it (and ofcourse for possible pow, if I ever find one, custom x sink so much..)
Great video Lars! What board/binding would you suggest for someone with small feet (7/7.5 US) and quite heavy (80kg)? I currently ride a Korua Cafe Racer 159. It excels in soft groomed snow, but when the conditions turn icy or choppy, it becomes a death machine. I feel like the board is too wide for me, but if I go down in length, my weight gets out of the recommended range. Thank you in advance!
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel I really like the surfy feeling and the ability to cruise or charge of the Korua CR, but it's tough finding the right condition for it. I usually ride Mt Cypress in Vancouver, so early groomers can be quite hard-packed and icy, and the CR loses grip easily. Is there a board that handles those conditions better while still fun to carve? Bonus point if it can cut through choppy terrains. I know it's a lot to ask, but thank you!
@@user-xy7rj1qe2p CR 159 has way too much taper to carve well in steeper, firmer conditions. The 156 with 14mm is much better. I don't understand Korua! Every length of the same board has a different amount of taper by huge margins - making it an entirely different board.... To carve firm snow you need forward pressure! To carve a heavily tapered board you need backfoot pressure! It simply doesn't work! Their boards - the ones with 20mm + taper - are great for mellower terrain, good corduroy and powder. But not so much for performance carving on steep or hard slopes. This is of course just my opinion and observation after riding quite a few of them. Pointy noses suck in choppy terrain! Has something to do with the board's outline between tip and contact point... So Korua... not such a good brand for that. Look at the K2 Alchemist 163, standard width, 256mm. So much better for your application!
@@Justaride-Snowboard-ChannelThank you for the recommendation! I've heard a lot about the Alchemist. But 163 is the longest size right? Will it be too much? Also, what do you think about the Stranda Shorty? It also has shorter waist.
@@user-xy7rj1qe2p Shorty is meant to be ridden longer. You'd wanna be on the 164, which has a 260mm waist.... So Alchemist is narrower. You're 80Kg, I think it's fine. Or go for the 159 (or 160?!?!) I don't know your ability level or height. You'll have to find out for yourself. But thinking "It's the longest one, it can't be right for me." is why many people are on such small / too small boards... The truth is that K2 should be offering a 166 and a 169, and then you wouldn't be thinking that the 163 is surely too much! :-) I'm 5'9 and 62 kg. I rode the 164W Alchemist... was great.
" only " riding 10 days a year 🤣🤣 I wish! Like the vast majority of people I get 1 weeks holiday a year so only get 6 days a year and I have to be within the weight limit for transporting my kit by air so a " dedicated " carving board is never going to happen. The " functional " waist width will hopefully size a board for me that literally has to cover everything- icy groomers in the morning, chopped runs in the afternoon, a bit a powder surfing when conditions allow and everything in between. Still interesting videos tho 👍👍👍
in Germany 1 whole month of paid vacations is the standard minimum for every full time job. crazy how different work and free time cultures are compared to the US.
That's definitely one way to interpret carving! Super fun to go fast on edge. I do, however, also appreciate a more 'surf style' / Japan inspired carving style where it's more about the line choice and style rather than the 'gnar factor' :-).
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Most of japanese "surfers" don't have large feet :D It's very funny why they ride in more 15° in back(lots of them set 27°, omg😅)