Did a quick comparison between my hardware 106 and this plugin (demo version). I concur: it's the same. Not 100%, but it is so close that any difference doesn't matter (to me). I bet there's a similar degree of difference between hardware units.
You know, ten or fifteen years ago I hated VSTs, Windows XP/7 had terrible latency with the CPUs of the era, and the VSTs sounded nothing like the real thing. Fast forward to now, and I can't justify the cost/space taken up of hardware. OK, there are a few pieces of (usually analog) hardware that still has a small edge sound wise, but VSTs have really matured to an amazing level, have'nt they?
Yes, I agree, but again, there is still a point of having them, the workflow is different, it's very different to twist a knob or feel the instrument and just spending whole afternoons clicking a computer mouse... But that's my only justification at this point...
Yes but a good midi controller and a bit of work mapping software to the controller works great. And then you have all of the automation capabilities of a modern DAW with any parameter you want
@@bitspacemusic Yeah.. I compared that to the hardware a couple of years ago. They've also got the Zenology version. Hard to beat this one though... I'm not sure how anything could from a sonic perspective.. only comparing extra functionality, ease of use and price I suppose would be useful?
TAL emulating Juno 60. There is difference in SUB oscillator in Juno60/106. On Juno60 it sounds like separate oscillator and on 106 it sounds like added bass to main oscillator
Sounds great, I owned a Juno 106 for several years, as others say, the real juno has a touch more bottom end. I did listen without paying notice to which you played, but when I looked up the meatiest sounding one was when you was playing the Juno. But hey, it's so small a difference, it's negligible. The vst also wins on its gorgeous GUI too. And the modular extensions are a great idea. I do miss my juno for those deep warm simple pads and 80s brass stabs. Will Def download the demo. Great video as usual starsky 😎👍
When it comes to lowend, the hardware has a more solid sound and a nicer body - That's what i like more. Cool software though... definitely getting it.
They did a great job! In the oscillator comparison, I definitely hear more weight in the low end of the Juno. Guessing some of that could easily be covered with some EQ'ing. Nice work!
Recon there’d be a market for putting this plugin inside an exact replica of a 106? I’d buy it! I want the user experience and feel of these icon instruments and software is easily good enough now to deliver the sound.
You honestly would't be able to tell the difference.. It's a pity the System 8 looks so hideous and the Boutiques are so small as the Roland emulations is really good as well.
@@StarskyCarr Totally, I have a few boutiques and think they sound great but you can’t beat a full sized instrument. I wouldn’t even consider the system 8, the only way I’m able to get away with synths in the front room is because the Ms likes the look (luckily) Full sized replicas of classic synths with these modern digital emulations inside would surely sell. I feel like most sane people are over the “digital will never sound like the real thing” and there’s obviously a demand for full sized re issues (Korg etc) Dropping the need for expensive analog guts (and not being tied to computer a la controllers) makes so much sense, I’m crossing my fingers - can totally see this happening!
I love it when the 'thinner' and 'not as warm' arguments come out against software. Its so easy to hide behind vague statements like this. Just look at the thread about this soft synth emulation on Gearspace. Lots of similar comments about the hardware being so much better and obviously so, yet the same people when challenged to a blind test refuse to take it or complain that the blind test proves nothing or that its biased. Even in this thread, there are comments that could simply be addressed with some EQ (if the difference even exists at all) Urs from U-he put this to bed a few years back when he was challenged with similar vague statements about Repro5 and shot the guy down in flames. Anyway, if you want 99.9% of the 106 sound then spend the $79 on this. If you want the hardware feel, spend $79 and then buy the SoundForce Juno style midi controller. If you are insane, go and buy a real Juno 106 for about $3000 and hope you don't have to do major repairs, voice card replacements etc. Nothing wrong with hardware at all of course and if you want it and can afford it then go for it, but these boring debates over software vs hardware in 2021 when we have unbelievably good emulations like this one, Synapse Legend and Obsession and Repro 1/5 etc are just silly.
Thx for this comparison! The emulation sound good and close but still thinner sounding than the hardware witch have more weight more define low or mid frequency and on a patch i heard a or some high frequencies on the softube version that are a little too much or harsh. Good emulation in any case!
It’s not something I noticed tbh. I was using my Dynaudio LYD 7s which don’t go as low as my Neumanns but I really could hear no discernible difference when doing this. At times I thought I could, then realised I hadn’t switched between the 2 synths.. at which point you realise you’re looking for differences that aren’t there 😂
@@StarskyCarr there is some difference, i hear softube just little louder or little more "phat" saturated sound, it's same difference level when you use different converters or preamp for hardware synth
Love old Rolands. I sold them all besides the SH-2, got a 101 clone, and had to let go of the JX-3P, Juno 106, and MKS-70. Too many problems. Too many expensive repairs. Sounds really, really close. Thanks for the comparison.
I just demoed it, and I was more impressed with it than what I heard on this review. Of course it sounds better without the YT compression. To me, it sounds very nice. It has a very pleasing, laidback sound, sitting further away than you would expect. It's got to be one of the best soft Junos out there. It's great to have another flavor.
In my thoughts, based on this video, the only real difference is in the stereo imaging of the sounds. Compare 32:16 to 32:30. Only difference is a bit of stereo imaging (and the Juno is a little louder in this recording). Conclusion: put a stereo width effect (Ozone Imager is a really nice one) on the Model 84 and you're there!
My Novation A-Station doesnt get much love these days, so for the sake of comparison, I followed your entire video, and tried to replicate it. To my great surprise, The A-Station was so close (apart from the chorus width). Obviously it's not exact, but so close it makes no real difference, especially for the bread and butter sounds. I never thought of it as being a good-ish 106-alike, but it'll do! I think I need to appreciate it more. As usual Mr C, great comparison, and clearly they have put the work in that soft synth.
I compared the Arturia and the softube and was amazed at how similar they are. I could get them to sound almost identical. However, there seems to be the tiniest bit of extra saturation in the amp stage on the Juno. This gives the Arturia a slightly more open sound with a bigger low end, while the softube has a slightly more compressed sound (seems a little more harmonically rich) The differences are VERY small though. So now I am trying to decide whether to grab this on top of the Arturia which I already own...... Man these emulations are getting so damn good. I am actually gonna sell my analog stuff now. There is just no point for me
thanks this sounds outstanding i have a juno 106 and listening to this has really excited me .... . reason being i need my 106 serviced every sixth note wont play i want this digital version.. thans for this reveal
To me the Roland Cloud ACB version sounds very good. It has a lot of good Roland preset packs and good VSP presets. I have that and the Softube 84, and TAL, and Arturia and ... all of them for the heck of it. Lots of good sounds in all of them. Of course the Roland Cloud ACB version has the System 8 hardware controller for it. Thanks for the review.
So which one do you prefer? I dont have any experience on Roand Cloud system but I tried Arturia and Tal. When I compare Softube 84, I think it is superior to both of them but I dont know about the Roland Cloud one.
@@flanorlerii5626 I don't have a good sense of which is best. They all have a variety of sounds. I have them all. I own a lot of presets for the Roland Cloud synths: Juno 106, Juno 60, System 8, Jupiter 8, JX-3P. I like a lot of presets from web site Vintage Synth Pads. Also have Espen Kraft presets and many others I bought Roland lifetime keys but you can try the Roland synths out with a fairly low cost month by month subscription. Check out Synapse Dune 3.5 and U-He synths. All good. Of course I have Omnisphere and a lot more. I like the Roland Legendary synths a lot more than the Zenology synths. I started with the JX-3P.
I've seen a lot of producers using the "TAL u-no-62" as their go-to juno 106 emulation, it costs about 40-50 pounds and a lot of producers will use it even if they have a real 106 next to them for convenience and for the fact that you can automate it within your daw and make small tweaks instead of trying to get a perfect take on the hardware
Brought a tear to my eye. Felt like I was in the studio back in the late 80s tweaking that keyboard. Having this in my Softube Modular would be so cool. Right, back to work… dream about it later. 😁
Great review! Btw you forgot to turn on stereo chorus on Softube emulation in portamento comparison, also in the first melody comparison after that, software chorus also stays mono ) So this is obvious difference in stereo field between two melody examples. Writing it because some people can say "Ohhhh look duuude hardware sounds better!" But it's just mono chorus lol ))
That’s annoying I thought I’d caught all the mono sections. I realised after I’d completed and edited it that some had been left in mono following the stereo/mono bit. I went back and remade the final sound comparisons, so a bit frustrating that I missed some tbh!
I have and use the TAL UNO-LX, I think thats more of a Juno 60 emulator. I think the TAL and this are both good, equal but slightly different as the Softube Model 84 is a Juno 106 emulator.
I dunno… I hear a pretty sizable difference in the character of the sound between these two. It’s especially apparent when comparing the pulse wave through the entire fader travel. But I’d agree that for those who can’t afford an original 106, this is a fine option, and it’s on sale right now!’
It’s odd when you’re making something like this. You can hear no differences through expensive studio monitors then hear stuff in cheap headphones. You can also feel the character of the synths and get confused by which is which when they both represent the overall feel of what you’re used to. I can play 2 identical vintage synths that both feel and respond like a polysix for example (I’m using that as an example as I have 2 here at the moment). As I play both they have the character, respond like I’d expect and give the flavour of a polysix - they are after all 2 polysixes- then listening back they sound different. But they’re not …. It’s weird. I can only say that after 4 decades of playing with them i have the benefit of experience and understanding that ‘feel’. So yes they can sound different, but feel the same. That’s hard to get across, and nothings intentional it just is what it is as you record the videos. And as you say for those that can’t afford a real one. And those that don’t have the space, or can’t be bothered with maintenance or the worry it won’t work properly next time etc 😂 But seriously I thought this was amazing and I did get confused by which was which. To me that shows that even if not identical they’re both doing the same thing… filling the same gap… creating the same vibe. And if it’s in sale… get it 😀
Lots of good presets for the Roland Cloud ACB version. I have that and the 84, and TAL, Arturia, ... all of them. I keep track of them in PluginGuru Unify
Thank you for the comprehensive comparison. Perhaps it is due to the equipment used or that for you it is harder to hear them directly side by side, but I can blindly pick them apart. The Juno is fuller in the bass, warmer, and softer up top. The Softube is buzzier and colder and less relaxed to my ear. A tip: I noticed quite big improvements with VSTs by upping the sample rate to however high your computer can handle comfortably. It depends a little on the VST implementation, but usually this will increase the internal precision. This especially is important in simulating distortion. To my ear it makes a lot of VSTs sound a LOT more analog. I have tested this with VCV for example and it made a clear impact.
Great review as always, Starsky. And as always, I get a kick out of the “hardware is always better” crowd. What I would give to put people in a room with both and blindfold them. I absolutely love all my synth hardware and prefer using it for the *experience* of it - but I’m first to admit that top notch modeling has taken the sonic arguments off the table when it comes to real world usage. Cork sniffers will cork sniff 😂
In this case the hardware does sound better,. Less fizzy. The emulation has a more ear-fatiguing sound in some of the held notes, which stuck out to me in the oscillator section. No need to knock others who hear this. I do commend them on the emulation though. Probably couldn't tell in a mix, and certainly worth the money.
@@defenderstargate1447 I get what you're saying - your last sentence is more where I was landing with my statement: the real-world context. Even in an isolated "torture test" such as this, the margin of difference is so slim (if discernible at all to most ears) that it might as well be any two vintage synths of the same model. No two will sound 100% identical. At the end of the day, it's a matter of how you prefer to make music I reckon!
I think it depends on the hardware, right? This is definitely a case where the emulation gets the job done, and there’s no denying that. But there is nothing in the software world-that I’m aware of, at least-that can get anywhere near to the sound of my Moog Sub 25 with multi-drive cranked up. Same goes from what I’ve heard of the other modern Moog’s like Matriarch or Grandmother or even the Voyager. Ob6 seems like another one with no real decent software comps, at least when it comes to certain sounds. And of course, there are a shitload of vintage synths that are unreachable via software of hardware, currently. I was just watching a demo of the Waldorf PPG (the real synth, not the vst)-good luck getting THAT sound outside of the real thing. I do get your point, though; it just doesn’t fly in every case.
@@79Glitch yes indeed, depends on the hardware. The OB-6, as incredible as it is, has serious competition in software like Obsession and OB-Xd, the latter of which is free! I can get them to sound pretty much indistinguishable from the hardware, but I would still justify spending money on the hardware simply for the experience of using it and the creativity it inspires ;-)
I wonder if at one point later in the video the Model 84 was somehow put into a mono mode so you don't hear it as a stereo chorus compared to the hardware, or if there is some other reason for the quite noticeable difference between the two at 32:16 and 32:30 (as pointed out also in another comment). Up till then, they sounded nearly identical, but then it became very obvious which was creating the sound.
What an achievement. I think the great software vs hardware debate is finally over, at least in terms of audio. Thank you, as always, for your incredibly great comparison videos!
I think it’s your mind playing tricks tbh. Minor differences in levels etc I tried very hard to find some definitive differences to comment on, but going back over things I would think I’d found something then realise I was listening to the same synth!
@@Heatwave1988 I have a Juno 6 and i make the comparison on my monitor PRESONUS ERIS E5 XT and the TAL is fantastic . the difference it's on the bass but you can put a equaliser and a multiband dynamic compression to solve this issue. For the price, TAL is the best.
The only difference I could tell is that the Model 84 sounds a little brighter, which can be darkened anyway of course - but the timbre seems to be identical. Amazing, just bought it because of this video!
Yeah, I found the super close. During the review I ended up feeling like I was listening for differences that didn't really exist. Just turning my head slightly from the speakers was giving more radical changes!
Fantastic showcase for the Model 84, glad I got it before it goes up to regular pricing. Will be very interesting to compare it to the Cherry Audio DCO-106, especially in the CPU usage department. Both of them seem to be very very true to the original in terms of sound. Cheers!
I hope that next time you are more kind to yourself and use a separate midi controller for the vst lol Thank you for all of your efforts in all of you videos!
You're a legend for these videos. They've made up my mind to purchase a couple of hardware synths (Behringers) already and now this software comparison means I'll grabbing model 84 in a minute. These videos are the only ones I've come across that give me the confidence to make a purchase based on them without demoing them in person myself which is obviously more difficult these days than it used to be.
It’s definitely as good as the Roland. I was super impressed by that one when it was released. It had some minor differences from my hardware as far as I recall, but this is spot on.
When I demoed Model 84 I was blown away, it sounded as expected, cause Ive tried them all emulations, and really didnt think any of them sounded good, except maybe Cherrry Audio... thanks for the review
I get it, the 106 is an iconic synth from the 80s with a great sound and simple workflow. but...why emulate a budget polysynth in software? The limitations necessary to keep cost down on the hardware are no longer relevant with software. Why not give your Juno two oscillators and a sub, two LFOs or better still, why not make a perfect emulation of a Jupiter 8 instead? A hardware Jupiter 8 today is 20k, the Juno 6 is 1.5k! That’s one great reason for more Jupiter 8 emulations, in my opinion.. Is it not possible to do everything a Juno 106 does and far more with a Jupiter 8?
17:30 OMG Your Juno needs calibration sooo bad 😄 mine is also not calibrated but sounds not as bad as yours but this is what makes the difference to emulations and imo gives it a richer analog sounding 🥳 i think its not fair to compare an uncalibrated device with an emulation.. anyway.. the roland zenolgy has parameters for pitchdrift and condition to emulate aged circuits and bad calibration 😊
haha.. it’s worse than I realised. However, Unless the sound is relying on high resonance it’s not noticeable. Comparing the filter for example and playing a single note it will only play a single voice so I can compare like with like... it’s only when moving from voice to voice like I do at one point that it becomes an issue.. so for a comparison I just had to be aware of the ok orations I could work within.
Very close, I do think the Juno 106 seems to have a little more bottom end. Also at 37:25 the Juno 106 sounds more wider than the vst at 38:25. Was the Juno 106 recorded in stereo vs mono on the vst? Or are my ears deceiving me.
I actually recorded the first take in mono on the Softube accidentally as I’d been playing with the mono/stereo outputs at the end of the video. I did however go back and redo it all in stereo and sure I caught it all as I remade the whole track... so I’m certain they’re both stereo. The difficulty with the tracks at the end was that I was attempting to recreate 4 or 5 lanes of automation manually.. so there are bound to be differences. Putting 2 sounds together just sounded like the same synth tbh... so a bit boring to watch and to make! But hopefully they demonstrate that in the context of a musical piece they’re interchangeable.
Just bought it. It's absolutely fantastic sounding, it's got such a fantastic warm creamy sound to it. If I was being picky, the only thing I don't like is that the preset names go very fuzzy when you stretch the GUI on a 4k monitor. Otherwise. It's perfect!
It's all about having fun with my hobby and I personally don't consider software and computers and a mouse as fun, no matter how good the software emulates.... I still prefer touching knobs, faders and buttons 😉
I don’t think anyone would disagree, but sometimes a plug-in is just really handy especially when working to deadlines. I do however get more inspiration from sitting in front of a nice big synth... which is why I’ve run out of space!!
The model 84 really blew me away. It’s much closer to the 106 than most vst clones are to their originals. A real 106 will have a hair more bass and some patches will sound better due to the analog oddities, but blind test or in a mix there’s zero difference and even isolated it’s about as close as could be.
This sounds the closest, more so than other emulations, which lack that massive bass & other characteristics, this doesn't. The only thing I noticed was Chorus 1 sounds the same as 2? Whereas on the one I had, there was more of a distinction.
This is about as close as I've heard to the 106 as far as it's competitors. On some of the poly chords, I did notice the stereo width seemed to be just a little less on the Softube than the real 106. Maybe I was just imagining that, though.
I'm sure people have been asking and it's gonna be a lot of work with a new one out every couple of months but are you planning a definitive shootout of Juno clone softsynths? I wanna know who's reigning supreme!!
Possibly different amounts of effects (sent via aux busses so couldn’t get exact) or minor changes in the patches. It was difficult to track the 4 lanes of automation manually, but I did it to demo state how interchangeable they are in a musical context. Honestly when I made a sound on each they were indistinguishable... pretty rubbish to make and to watch. I could literally have put any image over any sound and no-one would have guessed.... maybe I’ll do a blindfolded update. 🤔 possibly I tried something too difficult, but after playing with them together for hours putting the same sounds together was an exercise in futility and ultimately just boring beyond belief!! I guess sometimes after doing something so in depth going back to matching patches just seems pointless... maybe it’s better to do them first? But then maybe if there are differences I can’t explain them...
@@StarskyCarr What you did was really good (as always). I remember getting my knickers in a twist when I did the Behringer TD-3 / Roland TB-303 straight comparison tests on 'Gearsl*tz' before most people had received theirs (somehow I'd jumped the queue!)
👍 Amazing. I have listened to most of what is out here looking for a soft 106 creation to take with me to my Island place where I work out of a closet size space. The Model 84 imo is the best one. Thanks for this.
i am concentrated (for some reason) to 7:20 in the video. there you finish the chord progression on a lower combo on the 106 and I missed it on the 84 in order to be completely certain and compare 1:1 but I can't shake the feeling that there are some level differences (I don't mean by the synths themselves but cause of the volume settings) that sometimes I have the feeling one is louder that the other thus confusing me a bit but to keep it short , I felt that the 106 had a tiny bit more low end and sounds a bit more "mushy" in a way. The 84 is more "constantly pristine". Without being an expert I predict that the 106 is more fun to jam with but the 84 will cut through a mix more easily. Maybe its just me of course. Btw I am in no way an analog evangelist. I love my laptop and what it allows me to do and all the amazing plugins I own. I also love my minilogue, my Erebus and all analogue things . Just writing my first impression on the comparison. Cheers and so happy when I see a video by you. Quality every time. Thank you for that Very good job by Softube
Thanks for your great reviews! I would love to hear your thoughts about softube model 84 vs Juno 106 Cloud. Especially which one do use prefer to use in general
Softube sounds like a poor emu of the 106, IMHO. Roland's own Cloud version not great either. Obvious high-end nasty aliasing with Softube, bass is flat, less 3D sounding soundstage and when you play lots of notes these issues combine to a nasty mush. For me, Nord and Diva emulations are really close to sounding like analogue, with The Legend and Ultra-Analog as runners up. Korg MS-20 V2 and PA Knifonium are impressive on some settings. But when I fire up my Minilogue XD or Moog Minitaur listen after playing with any soft synths, it's no contest. Just my opinion.
Should add that if you are Windows, the GUI does resize, but it looks awful when you enlarge it. Its totally fuzzy / blurry and the text becomes almost unreadable at the top left. I'm quite disappointed on this aspect in 2021 but apparently Softube are working on this issue for windows users so we shall see what happens.
Great video. I'm buying this. Thinking also on the UAD minimoog. Played that one yet? Interested in a comparison with your minimoog if you still have it.
I don't agree. The real Juno is a tiny bit warmer and deeper in the bottom end. I can hear quite easily. You need speakers or headphones that go down low enough to be able to hear it though. Having said that this is a great emulation and you do not have to pay ridiculous prices for an old Juno to get the sound. The oscillator chips are failing now as well in old Junos
I really think you should make a video about the differences between the Juno and a SEM. I just downloaded the demo of this and it got very confusing that, when comparing this and the bx_oberhausen, the oberhausen seems to be fake, like too metalic sounding, and very much harder to get good sounds of it comparing to the model 84. So, I was just thinking, is it me? is it the bx_oberhausen? or is it just the character of the synths? Great content, I've learnt a lot from you since I found it. Thank you very much for sharing knowledge.
Btw, maybe someone already said.... you forgot to turn the chorus back in stereo on the Model 84 so after that everything is in mono from the 84 but not the real Juno, even the demo song, anyway nice job! :)
It’s difficult to keep everything level and the same settings… I’ll have edited stuff out where I’ve been levelling stuff and forgot that at some point. Very annoying when I’ve spent so long making the video. This took a couple of days to put together all in all, and I never noticed until final edits. At which point I just didn’t have time to remake tbh use bits. It’s a shame but I think it still demos how close they are.
Doesn't the chorus do 1+2 lighting up both lights simultaneously? If not then it's not accurate and i don't want it. Just kidding sounds really good 😊. But seriously, does the chorus do mode 1+2 like the original?
I think the 60 does that but not the 106. It’s really difficult to do on mine... and I mean REALLY difficult. And then it sounds the same! I’ve heard emulations doing. it and it makes it faster but ...?
I just wish it would include an option to at least double the polyphony. The lack of polyphony on long release sounds is one reason I got rid of my Juno-6 back in the day (replaced it with a Korg Wavestation - different days).
