Some People Are Mad at Critical Role’s Latest Combat… it’s dumb 

Sorry this video isn't available in HD. I set my processing for lower quality and forgot to change it back. Video quality will be back to normal next episode.

a fighter loaded with magic items and buffed to high heaven to fight not one or two but seven 13th level adventurers at once should not be controversial

Self sacrifice, and the willingness to do so, is the epitome of heroism. Full stop.

RIP Fresh Cut Grass May the rolls of Lauras dice collection sing thee to thy rest

One of the things I admire about Matt Mercer and CR in general is how well they walk the line between TPKs and success in their major boss battles. That's so difficult, especially with a party of 6-7 players. It makes the whole encounter much more entertaining.

One of the greatest moments in my decades of playing was a sacrifice by a Paladin in a one-shot adventure. My friend created the character for the game that day and his decision to sacrifice his character to allow the rest of the party to escape the collapse of the bad guy's keep is something my players still talk about and it happened in 1989.

I see so many DMs screeching they "would NEVER do what Matt did in that fight". And I'm just like... you couldn't. You could not run a combat like that with all the tension and fear he brought in. You could probably not even handle that many players in less high stakes or even just RP. I've played with a lot of DMs who think they're fantastic and they're thoroughly average. A lot of the people screaming about that fight have gotten so used to how good Matt Mercer is, they think it's not even special. Do y'all remember when CR first started on GnS? EVERYBODY watching at home was exploding at how amazing he was. But they're so used to shrimp and steak now, it might was well be cold oatmeal to them. People are just ungrateful.

Player character deaths are just apart of the game these people need to calm down

Matt did actually do one error. It's when Laura got a nat 20 on her death save, and Matt said it happens at the end of her turn when it does, in fact, happen at the start of your turn. It have happened many times watching D&D streams where they had a nat 20 deathsave and supprised the enemy and got a big or even final hit on the enemy.

Matt (and the rest of the cast) has talked about this campaign being more dangerous and brutal than previous ones, and that the players are fully on board with him pushing them to their limits. Through that lens, Otohan being so OP makes perfect sense. I also think it’s worth exploring the idea that Bell’s Hells might not have been meant to win the fight at all? Or at the very least, that Matt was fully prepared for a TPK. Someone in the comments on this episode on YT compared BH to the crew that goes to Scarif in Rogue One: a group of nobodies who sacrifice themselves in a heroic play to allow the big guns to actually step up and win the day. The idea that BH aren’t exactly cut from the same cloth as Vox Machina or even the Mighty Nein has come up several times both in the campaign and behind the scenes. It seems fully possible that BH weren’t meant to survive their trip to Ruidus, but by finding the portal, they enable someone else to actually beat Ludinus.

In my mind, a war hero like Otahan hasn’t gotten her legendary reputation without being prepared. She’s going to have a way to heal herself. As far as the damage thing, as far as we know the damage FCG did could have had a multiplier for being so close and a literal core explosion. I mean it could have done double or triple damage to anyone within 5 feet or something like that. Now wait for the screams if he gets resurrected.

Regarding the potion : I kinda get going with a potion instead of extra HP, if the enemy is a warrior of renown. Makes sense they'd keep an emergency heal of themselves, like a player would, and it gives a chance to bypass that HP if DPSed down enough. Good tie to them not just being another monstrous enemy. Regarding the death of a PC, it's interesting to see people bemoan possible DR bypass and such when other systems do use sacrifice as a mechanic. Fabula Ultima has mechanics for this exact situation, where a permanent character death gives a huge payoff to the party under specific circumstances. DND just... Doesn't have those mechanics, but why not borrow them instead of having a hole in the rules. A character death is a huge price to pay, so something something the first law of alchemy.

If I recall correctly Matt was asked a question about obeying rules to the letter of the law and he responded by saying he was a bit too strict with obeying all rules in campaign 1 and 2 and it prevented a lot of cool moments from happening. I watch CR because I like their group dynamic, story, characters, etc. If Matt had obeyed the rules then FCG would not be able to self-destruct with a nuclear blast. I think people forget sometimes that D&D is about the story, the adventures, the banter and the jokes, the silly moments and most importantly, its about role-playing. That fight was fucking epic and I wouldn't change anything. Honestly, I kinda was hoping for a TPK just to see how it would affect the story. Can you imagine? A bunch of lvl 1 adventurers living in a world where gods are dying and there's this whole apocalyptic vibe. Wooo boy, that would be some juicy role-playing.

Matt played the enemy brilliantly. He trusted that the players are experienced enough to handle a very challenging fight, and it created incredible story moments. Epic!

I swear every encounter with Otohan has been absolutely brutal. The episode 33 bloodbath where she killed at least two of them and downed more; she nearly killed Keyleth at the Malleus Key; here she killed Chetney immediately, downed several more of them, taking some monster rolls from Orym (Liam got how many critical hits that combat?), and having been relieved of her backpack super early...it was never going to be an easy fight, and I think she's proved to be one of Matt's most vicious adversaries to date. TPK was looming overhead like a Sword of Damocles, and we know that Matt isn't afraid to fray that string.

I'm sorry people are complaining that the enemy isn't doing what "psionic fighters can do normally"? Since when did we care about monsters having powerful abilities?

It occurs to me that players can't see the boss's hp so having her drink a potion is basically an intimidation tactic. A DM can just decide on the fly that an NPC's current health is now higher or lower in order to influence the length or flow of combat but telling the players that a strong enemy is revovering has a psychological effect

I think it was in an earlier episode of 4 Sided Dive Matt and the gang made it clear that the intent for this campaign was that stakes would be MUCH higher, they wanted to feel like there were risks, and taking those risks would come with consequences. So Matt is delivering an amazing experience for his players where things are brutal and not pulling punches because that is what the players wanted. He's doing exactly what he is supposed to.

Bruh, I fucking cried over FCG But also, OVER 500 HIT POINTS FOR A ROUGHLY CR17 FIGHTER?! Jesus Christ. That was nerve-wracking

When the boss heals once: ah hell no!potions are busted! When the party heals for the 500th time: potions are so resourceful.im glad the bad guys are to stupid to use em.

It was a 1 v 7. Why did anyone think it was gonna be a fair fight? DMs need to beat your asses more often.

I think that episode was one of the best of the series! and it actually got me crying with the cast. it was a heroic and emotional end.

I love my wild magic tiefling and I just want him to be happy, but if his death would be super cool and (preferably) completed his arc, I would grieve but I would love that for his character too.

Heroic sacrifice bypasses damage reduction, at least it should

Otohan has a starblock, not a character sheet. And Matt gave them a revivify, otohan deserved something, I think the potion was well needed.

Part of the Fandom was complaining that Matt was playing soft and not punishing Talison whenever Ashton took the shard not meant for him and survived - even though at one point he did die and almost permadeathed had it not been for that ring. And now episodes later when they fight a very powerful baddie and it ends in a death like FCG's there's a part of the Fandom that is complaining that Matt is too mean and punishing the characters. It's that age old issue where there is always someone out there who is going to be upset that something didn't play exactly like they wanted it to. RIP FCG! The best of the boys

Most people seem to forget that at 17th level fighters get a second action surge, and when she Exalted it was a Mythic Awakening like you can see on many monster stats, the monsters refresh their ability and technically should’ve fully healed, look at Aspect of Bahamut’s Platinum Brilliance ability, Otohan’s Exalted State is basically the same, Matt wanted to party to live

I didn't see an issue with what happened. It sucks but that's what DnD is. It's unpredictable. The same thing happened to me when my first ever character died. It wasn't a self sacrifice like FCG but she died at the jaws of a white dragon. It sucked and I was very sad but I accepted it. But it was an opportunity for growth for me as a player and I got to play a wizard for the first time ever. Turns out I'm better with magic based classes than melee classes. Things happen and I don't understand why people are so butt hurt about it

Thank you! I kinda hate when people try to rules-lawyer monsters and NPCs. Those should not have to follow the same rules as PCs.

I watched your earlier videos and the growth was amazing !!!

If these people ever played original D&D, from 1974, both PC death and NPCs/monsters having powers inaccessible to the PCs would be much more normal.

It's called the Player's Handbook, not The Guide By Which Everything In The Game Must Adhere.

12:28 this is also very different from Molly, because this was SAM’S CHOICE. he knew what he was doing, and Matt even warned him a couple of times. Molly’s death was also just a straight up tragedy. there was no silver lining. the party lost, and they lost badly. FCG’s death at the very least resulted in the defeat of a long time, very powerful foe. it wasn’t for nothing.

Love your videos man! Keep it up!

I'll start by saying that I'm currently about 7 episodes behind in CR, but based on the bit of spoilers I've gotten, I think it's dumb that the community is so angry at Matt and the combat. Sometimes bad things happen to characters in D&D and more than anyone else at that table, I think both Sam and Liam have been shown to fully accept that. We knew from their earlier match that Otohan was going to be a tough fight when they ran into her again. And honestly, she's kind of the big bad that I feel like this campaign needed... and I hope that this fight (and the aftermath) provide similar plot developments and opportunities for character and party growth as c1's Briarwood and c2's Iron Shepherds arcs did.

To me the healing potion was a master touch on Matt's part. 1) She was a high level fighter, not a thug. She was going to have access o healing potions. 2) Imagine the excitement of knowing the players forced her to drink one. yeah they had to burn through those HP again but she was taking them very seriously because she was forced to. This, to me at least is vastly more engaging than just giving more HP to start with. Also, it is POSSIBLE to bring FCG back, it's just not going to be cheap. This is also assumes that Sam wants to bring FCG back. In any event I am looking forward to Sam's decision, whatever it is.

I think the only issue i had was they were so stressed they were forgetting things and no one caught it. Not blaming them, it was stressful, and even on best of times it is easy to forget. The only one i really wanted to yell at the screen for was the shocking grasp then not moving away, and her saying she couldnt move because of AoO. she used it a couple times and it would have saved a few reactions if she had remembered, but when she said it out loud and *no one* was like wait! you can move! it was frustrating. Again though, i cant really blame them it was a high stress fight.

Man I needed this amidst a shit day from sunrise to sundown. Keep up the content.

I REWATCHED the battle and did the math, AFTER Odahan took the potion which gave her 66hp effectively 132 because she was taking half damage, BH did exactly 200hp damage including FCGs detonation, SO even taking half damage she would be DEAD, UNLESS she took that potion with MORE THAN 34hp left. It may have been close BUT it was a legit kill, NOBODY takes a potion with over 35hp! No removal of resistances was necessary.

Matt did what he thought was right in the moment. I do enjoy a DM that try's to out think the players.

Let's face it, the real tragedy is that Matt gave them the staff that could get them out when they needed it, and they blew it. Deep inside enemy territory and brush off your evac option. Dumb.

I'm not fond of a lot of Matt's homebrew spells, classes/subclasses, and items, but his monsters/bosses are excellent and are almost always perfectly tailored for whatever the party is, no matter the party composition.

I think it was in CR Cooldown, but Matt said that he didn’t have FCG’s explosion damage be resisted by Otohan’s ability because it was crazy Aeorian tech-magic “she’s not resistant to that shit!” I believe were his exact words 😂

Since Bells Hells arrived on Rudius, I've been anticipating fight #2 with Otahan. If it hadn't happened, it would have at some other point. I'm sure Matt has planned this out but it all comes down to when it's possible and what players do and if it interfers with the DMs plans. Some plans happen, some don't.

This Whole video is *chef's kiss*, smiley day to you my friend

That X-men reference, in the intro, is enough to get my subscription! Haha I'm still messed up, and haven't seen ep6. So you've got me, for at least your next 5 uploads. Hahaha

Give your monsters healing potions. One, it's action economy that can actually favor your players. Two, give rogues something to pick pocket.

Agreed! Some of y'all don't want Matt to have nice things. You know how many times Sam and Laura fucked Matt's shit up? Let this man have his moment. God a TPK would have been epic AF.

I think the important point about the health potion is it does 3 things. Like you said, it helps "pad" the amount of hitpoints that the players have to chew through to defeat her, but the latter 2 are the most important and why *I* favor giving the monster a potion or cure spell instead of adding another 50-100 hitpoints to the base block. It gives the characters an indicator that "hey, you're taking it on the chin.... but you've also hurt your foe and look they have to heal to keep in the fight." Lastly, it uses up part of a turn, and so that is part of a turn where this terrifying foe is not raining down death and destruction and gives the players an opportunity to press in or recover themselves.

My table were just talking about scaling combat tonight. So, my table recently jumped from 2 PC to 6 PCs tonight. We were discussing combat now vs how it was for just the 2 of us, when one of the new players said he wanted to try to DM but didn't know how to create monsters and run combat. We walked him through some monsters and stat blocks and a few scenarios involving different numbers of PCs. Some of the more experienced players were saying to not be afraid to scale up or down a monster for the table you're running. You don't have to strictly adhere to a certain stat block, if a creature has 100 HP and the Barb comes running up and casually drops 40 damage go ahead and and add a zero or one to that HP. That way all PCs get a chance to do something. Also you might get one of those players who thinks they know more than you and has memorized the stat block.

in one of my games, i was a little disappointed when the healer healed me of the slaad tadpole, though at the time, the healer wasn't aware they had done that, and in character my character didn't know. But i thought it would have been something really cool to explore if it had gotten to play out.

The potion was used for dramatic effect. I mean Its better to have her drink a potion instead of just having 50 more hp. Also it adds a bit of randomness and wastes a bonus action. Also you can somehow prevent it, if you manage to nuke her before the potion or disable her in some way. They all went for damage and she was very resistant. They wasted a lot of spell slots before the fight. They forgot advantage. Imogen was supposed to play her turn on a nat 20 death saving throw. Many mistakes were made. The boss was hard and good, they just tend to panic and forget to think when shit hits the fan :D

My barbarian player came to complain about the barbarian king boss having fighter abilities and concentrating on two spells at once. Then i was like. “Here’s a secret,he’s a boss. He doesn’t have to abide by barbarian rules” and note,that was after they fought a wizard with metamagic and 10th level spells

"That. Is. Dumb." Agreed, Rat-Man, agreed.

Opened the video just to comment- I watched the stream via RU-vid last week. I was light headed with stress from it. I sobbed for FCG. I was HORRIFIED by how OP Otohan was. Just full on screaming in terror cuz this was not a chance for them to run. It was literally a Fight or Die combat, unlike the last few encounters with her. I have seen clips that show how upset even Matt was getting at the possibility of a TPK which definitely tells me it was mostly dice luck and poor Opening Round positioning spiraling down. I love the fight for what it was, but I can understand being upset and frustrated as well, especially when “Resists Everything” comes into play. It’s one of those things that makes sense to give to an enemy (I wish I had when I homebrew buffed The Black Spider in Lost Mine of Phandelver cuz he was Crit One Shot by a paladin), but it also can feel, less spectacular for the players if it goes one too long. Tldr: Aspects of the fight could be upsetting if used at the wrong tables. They are fun regardless. Most of the issue came down to poor dice rolls.

I was DMing a game and two of my player’s characters (I also run a game for 7 people) died in a fight. They were ambushed by some criminals that wanted revenge on the party, and the party split up into different areas of the encounter and we did not have a healer at the time, and the party would never buy healing potions. So sadly, one of the characters was finished off while unconscious (I rolled percentile in front of the the party to see if the criminal would finish him off or attack someone that is conscious). Another player character was hit twice, first one knocking him unconscious, and the second one causing him two death save fails. Hit turn immediately followed and he rolled an 8 on his death save. Luckily, at the time, I also did blaze of glory deaths, so both of them were able to take out two of the people on the battlefield, one of them actually killed the boss with a critical hit sneak attack. It was pretty awesome, but also pretty sad.

FCG's sacrifice was a beautiful moment. Otohan's phylactery will never forget it.

Matt answered on twitter recently that the math DOES work out, because he decided she doesn't get double resistance to a nuke that was actively trying to tackle her. She only got one resistance, so the damage was halved, not 1/4 of what they rolled. Matt also said he would have kept her up if Sam rolled low bc he felt getting her HP low enough for someone else to one-shot her on their next turn was also a worthy use of their sacrifice.

My DM gave our party 'The Horn of Grim Duty' a magic item that when blown by someone who fully consents and understands the gravity and consequences of the action, detonates. Dealing twice the maximum of the horn blower's hitpoints to everything within a 60 ft sphere. The hornblower themselves is atomised and cannnot be revived by anything short of 9th level magic. We haven't used it yet, although there have been times when it's been a possibility.

Im interested to see what Sam's next character is. When he had Scanlan leave and introduced Tary it was to me at least an absolute gutpunch.

As a DM I don’t have an issue with Otahan’s build. It’s pretty epic and well built. My bosses are just as hard. The potion wasn’t an issue to me….. makes sense really….. it’s a first aid kit. I don’t have an issue with the FCG’s sacrifice. It was narratively good, my issue at the time was the rails leading to the wreck. Looking back at it a few days later I’m almost wondering if things are going on above the table to allow for a party reset leading to the end game. That also narratively makes sense……. So we will see how this goes in the next few sessions since something was mentioned by both Travis and Sam in the March 4SD and they kind of picked their way to sunset the characters.

I loved that boss. I hate to see her die tbh...she had that thanos quality to add tension. The cast just cant string many good decisions together. As good as they are at acting and roleplaying, they are probably in the bottom 5% mechanically for people with that many hours in the game. I enjoyed when Emily Axford played with them and they looked like highschoolers playing pick-up with Jordan lmao.

I don't see many dissenting opinions in the comments so I'll provide my thoughts/issues in as clear and concise a manner as I can. I found every encounter with Otohan Thull to be the most miserable viewing experience I've ever had with Critical Roll, and I'll list my reasons below. But before I get into it, I'll respond to some of the points made in the video. I agree that enemies should have access to spells and abilities that the players don't. Where i take issue is when those spells and/or abilities bypass the balancing factor built into the game (ie. the number of actions you can take in a turn). In my opinion, with expressions of great power there needs to be some drawback that allows players to reevaluate the situation once that power has been expressed; they can't do that if they're dead. And when you can kill (not down, KILL) a PC and still have attacks left over, you've failed in that regard. I agree that the requirements of balancing for 7 players is difficult. That does not mean we aren't allowed to voice our criticism when Matt fails to do so. I agree that Matt must also take the audience into consideration and try to make combat dynamic and interesting. Again this does not mean I'm not allowed to say i find a combat encounter to be tedious at best. I agree that players need to be challenged. However, I also believe those challenges should be reasonable, and constructed with your particular party in mind. And running a combat encounter that would give min-maxed dungeon crawlers a run for their money for non-optimized PCs is probably not the wisest move. I agree FCG's sacrifice, and the subsequent death of Otohan, made narrative sense and was well executed. I just wish the narrative impact weren't dulled for me by having to slog through the preceding combat encounter. Now to my points: 1. While each fight was 1 on 7, both times the 1 was at full strength, and the 7 were down a significant number of spells and class/racial abilities. At no point was there a true 1v7 combat encounter where there wasn't the near certainty of a TPK, and even in a scenario where everyone was at full strength, the odds would still favor Otohan. What gave the party even a sliver of a chance was the backpack (which I'll get into later) being removed by Imogen. And in the end even that didn't make the fight winnable. 2. From the jump, the mechanical build for the character was FAR too powerful for the party to contend with. They could have encountered a dragon in that tunnel and been in less danger. Matt could have rolled a 5 and still hit all but 1 or 2 of the PCs with each of Otohan's 4 attacks per action that each dealt damage in the low 20's. Not even accounting for the action surges, bonus actions, and legendary actions this would down all but 2 members of the party with only average rolls. Taking the action surges, and legendary actions into account would make what's been noted so far a reasonably difficult encounter. But wait, there's more... She can also make 3 duplicates of herself with her backpack, each with the same 4 attacks per action with the same attack bonus and damage output. And she can do this with a bonus action. This means, once again with average rolls, at the end of a single turn, 4 party members are either bleeding out or at single digit HP levels. But wait, there's more. Even if you manage to live through more than a single round of combat and miraculously reduce her HP past bloodied, her AC goes up and she becomes resistant to ALL damage types. But wait there's more. Cause even if you're, somehow, still alive and dealing damage she'll drink a health potion so rare that even the players had no idea it existed and effectively triple her HP. Was there more? Probably. 3. The only reason more characters didn't die in this encounter is Matt had Otohan uncharacteristically start spreading the damage around and leave characters to bleed out rather than finish the job. Had he not done this, Chetney and Imogen would certainly be dead, and Laudna and Orym would likely be dead. Matt having Otohan behave out of character was the only reason any of the characters survived. 4. Every encounter involving Otohan was FORCED. The only one you might, MIGHT, be able to make an argument for making sense is the first one; beyond that, every subsequent run in made less and less plausible sense. (Oh she randomly shows up with this caravan. What's she doing there? Um, she sensed Imogen. And she got here this fast how? Um... she's really fast. And the caravan didn't slow her down? Umm...) (We're escaping through the tunnels. Cool, Otohan's here. How? She followed you. How'd she find us? Um. And howed she catch up to us? Ummm....) 5. Both combat encounters HAD to end with a DM ex machina to prevent a TPK. First when Imogen went super Saiyan, and then again allowing FCG to self destruct (You'll note that said self destruct neither damaged the tunnel they were in, nor any other party member despite the apparent power of the explosion and the party's, particularly Fearne's, proximity). I wouldn't have a problem with most of this if i couldn't so blatantly see the hand of the DM in every aspect of the character. Nothing about her or the encounters involving her felt organic or flowed naturally with the narrative. Obviously all of this is my opinion, and you're more than welcome to disagree, but at the end of the day the best I can say for the last encounter with Otohan is at least there wont be another.

Well Bell’s Hells took out Otohan Thull (Kass) and only one of them died. Now they are going after Ludinus Da'leth (Vecna), and the chances of all of them dying is very high. Characters die in campaigns all the time. Back in 1e that happened almost every play session.

While in the moment i screamed “no you cant do that” when she drank the potion. Its a totally valid move. Otohan is an intelligent person with access to powerful resources. Theres no reason for her not to have an emergency potion jic. Especially as someone who lived through a war. And has fought the BH befow

Agree wholeheartedly! IMO the death of FCG in this fight made it feel more real, more visceral and more realistic to who they were up against and all that happened with this particular boss leading up to the fight. But as to whether the damage of FCG's blast would have actually finished the boss, rule of cool applies and this was definitely a super cool moment. As others have said in the 4-sided dive talk, Matt says FCG's blast damage wasn't resisted due to crazy Aeorian tech-magic or some such.

As a player in a seven member party, it is a slog getting thru combat. We’re fighting Auril. We made it thru 3 turns in tonight’s entire session, and most of turn 1 was holding actions and casting buffs and support spells. Matt is masterclass.

I don't think that Otahan Had resistance to force damage. Laudna hit her with an Eldritch Blast and Matt never said that the damage type did less damage than it usually would, something that he is usually really good at mentioning in all cases. So they only needed around 70 damage to kill her at that point. But he also didn't really care about the total either, so it's a hard call.

Given how the fight was going at that point, FCG's sacrifice saved Bell's Hells from losing more people if not a full TPK

I still don't like how he surprised them with the encounter, even though Laudna had the scry ball out constantly as they were tunneling out. He acknowledged that she could clearly see the ball, but just shrugged and said, yeah well, she's here now. Marisha tried to say that she would have told the others that Otahan was right behind them, but Mat said Otahan basically was on their tail and they can't escape her now. I also agree that Mat having her down that potion (or even having it on her at that time) was an interesting choice. AND she could have had a bunch of shadow soldiers, but they happened to get the backpack off of her to avoid that. Mat just really wanted this encounter and combat to happen.

I made the decision as a DM to let my players have full control over when they're character's story ends. There are other consequences than death. Sam's decision here is a great end to FCG's story because not only was it very in character, and concluded their character arc well, it also was Sam's decision.

One more thing, they didn't prepare specifically to fight Otohan before their respective missions. I'm sure their prepared spells are geared more toward utility rather than Combat. Just a level 3 Slow would have made a difference to counter her multiattack and insane mobility . I also noticed that for attack spells they repeatedly targeted Intelligence and Constitution saving throws (Blight, Psychic Lance) which Otohan has max modifier in. She failed Bane's charisma saving throw early on and didn't even care. Her wisdom and charisma couldn't be that high. Fearne could have focused more on support and healing rather than doing damage. She cast a high level scorching ray to try and hurt her in her exalted stage. Why not Polymorph Imogen or Orym into an Ape or something when they're on death's door instead? No hate to Ashley, just an observation. Anyway after two encounters, they didn't seem to study their nemesis and prepare very well. Caleb would have done so much better at the same level

for the most part, the fight was fine and handled well, though like Crispy, there are a couple of his choices that I would not have made, those still remain valid choices. My main issue was that Laudna was very actively looking at the scry ball such that it felt cheap for Matt to say prior to the fight that Laudna missed her sneaking up because she wasn't mechanically reading the ball correctly. They might have avoided the fight or called in mom for support earlier if this did not play out as it did. The circumstances of the fight starting are the bigger issue, though again, i still think its fine overall. Beyond that, it was a great and tense fight that got to a huge thematic moment for Sam

As I was watching it I was thinking about how she is like a 20th level fighter, who has a special backpack that gives her a second subclass. But then I was thinking about those legendary actions and resistances. And how much health she has. And I kind of love the narrative of that. Maybe once she was a fighter, maybe once she was something like what our heroes are. But she is something greater, much greater, than that now. I spend a fair bit of time thinking about player options and builds, for characters I am playing currently and things that might never hit the table. It's something I really enjoy doing, and Otohan was really cool to me in the way she took these things I'm familiar with and twisted and broke then

Smiley day to ya!

This isn't the cast's first campaign, they have become Adept, if he doesn't raise enemies to challenge them they and those who watch them will get bored, Thul needed to be what she was a terrifying war hero who never retired.

As far as I can tell even with the healing potion Otohan was taking a lot of damage and might have gone down anyway even without FCGs sacrifice. Great video about a great session of D&D.

In the World of Warcraft raid "Battle of Dazar'alor" among giant mutant gorillas, a super giat robot and a sea monster, one of the boss encounters is simply a Windwalker Monk and a Fire Mage fighting together, classes and subclasses that are available for the players. But, being bosses built to fight against up top 25 players, they have abilities and mechanics that fit their classes aesthetics and vibe, they also have mechanics and are overtuned version of these classes. Now imagine that boss fight if you just fought 2 regular good old PCs, a monk and a mage.

An old school note on optimization: what's good for the goose is good for the gander. An old school note in general terms on "fair and balanced": The DMG says encounters should be balanced to a chosen threat level using the PC Level as a base (or words to that effect). The players handbook and the DMG provides the option to change the rules as the party and DM see fit for their table and style of play. Therefore: If players make OP characters and the DM approves, the players have given their DM permission to do the same. PS: Who lied to any of you and said life was fair?

The death of a player character isn't the end, but a chance for a new beginning. My half-elf monk died two sessions into Lost Mines of Phandelver, but it just mean that I got to play my autistic teenage wizard, who ended up being one of my favourite player characters ever.

Couldn't agree with you more finally someone from your generation that is actually quite intelligent and has a good opinion about something 😊 also I recommend importing 4th edition monsters into your campaign assuming you can find the book you will find them full of unusual abilities that you probably have never heard of. Matt from mcdm also does this 👍

Everything you said 💯. The whole point of the game is to have fun. DM’s true responsibility is to the players and players only. If they’re good who cares

Critics when nobody dies in CR: the stakes aren’t high enough, it’s too boring. Critics when somebody dies in CR: it’s not fair, she was overpowered

My party (I was player) we attempted a coup and we were incredibly under-prepared. No one was honestly surprised and we are now left to fend for ourselves on a slaver island. Self-sacrifice should be an incredible epic moment. I lost a crusader to a purple worm because he was willing to be the bait to lure it out. He cared for the party and it was his sacrifice that lead to no one else had to take that risk.

FCG's death gives the players a reason to regroup and fight. For a long time, C3 has been lacklustre, with the players seemingly checked out a little, at least on the surface. This even could inspire the players to re-engage with the campaign and find something for them all to rally around.

I guess I’m shocked that some people think a DM is bound by any rules in regards to what their creatures can do as well as they should be tailored for their characters to beat. Monsters should absolutely be able to heal themselves too.

My problem with the fight, I dont think they could have won even if they had been at full gear. But beyond that, the supreme healing potion? Deciding as a bonus action that you rolled a 4 on all 10d4s, and then added 6 to the highest possible amounted healed on a opponet that is killing a character every turn and is resistant to all damage? Yeah. Nah fam

Thanks for a very reasonable video. I feel ppl forget that CR are a veteran group and they i am sure prefer having hard encounters. This was an awesome episode. And though i love FCG and am sad to see them go (who’s going to tell Frida ) but this was a win for BH. They managed to kill a general and seemingly win over Leilianna, weakening Ludanis or at least disrupting his plans. I feel MN worked so well because there were two clerics, although Jester wasn’t into healing very often but she did provide backup. Anyway I am now playing in a 1 pc campaign and even my DM never uses standard stats for key NPCs and monsters, so not surprised that Matt planned other things for Otohan, she is a legendary figure who helped win a war but we also don’t know what happened after that, she could have gotten more abilities through Ludanis and his experiments. So yes i agree, every DM has the right to run their game as they want as long as it is agreed with the players and that is definitely the case with CR.

Before we start a rant - the video is great, as always. And it was really intense and memorable episode of CR even without F.C.G's sacrifice, but that moved it from being just cool to legendary. Now about stuff, that been bothering me about people's respond to the fight. 4:17 - But she could use Action surge twice, if she's lvl 17 Fighter. And being 20 lvl Fighter she would have 4 attacks per her turn (which she did and which implies, that she would be able to use lvl 17 ability of the same class, isn't it). And it's possible to twin a result of a special effect (like Otahan did with the psionic stuff) both for players and monsters. And get equipment, that does those special effects too. Top it with legendary actions esistances cause why not => Even from game-mechanical stand point, the fight could be legit, all needed stuff is there. But spoiler alert (and the point of this video) - it doesn't have to be legit. Like it happened with Otahan going anime mode and resetting some of her cool stuff. Monster can do stuff, that players can't. And they're supposed to.

Matt says in the 4 sided directly after the episode that odahan only had like 40 hp left before the sacrifice.

Late to the party on this one! but you make some brilliant points in this better than I could. Maybe it's because I've abandoned 5e for other systems (Cypher and Blades in the Dark my beloved) but you really break down one of the things that drove me away from 5e when you talked about boxing monsters and bosses into the role of being just like the players. A great breakdown of a great scene, love your work.

I think one thing he fudged was the blast radius to avoid a lot more deaths and letting sam save the party. I don't think Sam quite caught that warning, and was focused on his own certain demise. Appropriate in that circumstance, I thought, to change how that blast worked in the interest of good storytelling. If a PC decides to sacrifice themselves to save their party and make an awesome moment- Let it Count.

Years ago in college, I played a fighter in an after class campaign and the DM asked us on session 0 how we feel about PC deaths. I don't remember what all the other opinions were, but they ranged between neutral and okay with it. I told the DM I don't mind PC death as long as you let me go down swinging and he looked me in the eyes and said "I can accommodate that". He gave my fighter a homebrew feature called "go down swinging" that I could only use once in combat upon failing death saves and it was essentially a "die like a chad button" that pretty much let me take whatever boss killed my fighter with me, or least severely damage or cripple it. I actually used it in the final battle of the campaign and it made for not only a heroic sacrifice that gave the rest of the party the opening they needed, but a memorable moment at the table that we still look back on to this day. Sorry for rambling, but the point is it's okay to be afraid of PC death because they are an extension of our imagination and losing them is like losing a part of ourselves. But if you can look past that fear and trust your DM to make your character's death mean something, you can make a long lasting memory that you can look back on and think "nothing that cool will ever happen again" Edit: Or your PC's death can mean absolutely nothing, but that can also work too because nothing raises the stakes and lets your party know the BBGE needs to go down like a meaningless death

Just one thing I want to point out: while it is valid to say "monsters should be created differently than PCs, the system is built that way" it is *still* a communication issue on behalf of the DM if they go ahead and say "this custom NPC I created is a Fighter with the Psi-Warrior subclass" if they're not following the rules available to Fighters with the Psi-Warrior subclass. Just call the boss a "Psionic General" or something similar, and fewer people will take issue. If you say "this is X" when presenting something that is Y, and X is a thing that already exists and can be compared to, people will take issue with the misrepresentation/communication when they realize Y is not X.

I'd be ok with the healing potion if the party is in any position to prevent it, via action denial or the right abilities, so there's a chance that you can prevent the heal to make the fight easier. That might make it better than just giving the enemy more hit points. Plus there's a slim chance the party can claim the potion!

I was having a conversation with a friend about Challenge Rating. He's recently started GMming again after a long time. He thinks challenge rating is a good indication of difficulty. Im trying to tell him, its not so much cr as it is action economy. If 7 players are fighting 1 creature it needs to have enough attacks to threaten at least half the part and all of them on a limited basis. Thats what Matt did. She may have had too many resistances though with no way of breaking through. Smiley Day

For me, It was less the op character for me, and more the fudging of numbers (superior healing potion that healed well over the max of what the possible die roll could be, and the seemingly endless psionic dice)

Great video. Smiley day! 😊

I feel that Matt played the “rule of cool “ and it was great for the narrative. It was an emotional and heartfelt. Truly amazing moment of the story

Imagine if FCG's sacrifice didn't finish Otohan off. Then what? The only real outcome would have been a TPK, Otohan is a ruthless character that felt over tuned but that is probably because things went poorly in the previous episodes and this fight happened sooner than it might have, and with resources already dwindling. This felt more authentic than having Imogen's mom come to the rescue, cause that would have cheapened the whole encounter and everything they've pushed through up till now. As for Matt's DMing choices with rules and such - It feels more authentic when they "go with it" or even make/miss silly mistakes without breaking the flow to constantly refer to rules. Who watches all these episodes to learn the rules?