I got REALLY bad banding while shooting concerts. The banding did fix itself once I turned off the silent shooting setting! I wish I found this video before I messed up all of those shots, but oh well! You live & you learn!
It is frustrating when you get bad shots and each setting you're changing doesn't help...good to hear you figured it out in the end...I bet you'll never make that mistake again! Thanks for watching and for sharing your experience with silent shooting. 👍
There is the rolling shutter effect. Readout of the sensor takes about 1/40s. This means, no matter how short the exposure is, the upper row starts and stops to be exposed 1/40s earlier than the last row at the bottom. If you expose 1/8000s, moving objects might be sharp and there is no motion blur but they are bend in a strange way. Mechanical shutter is about 10 times faster, so the effect is reduced a lot. Flash needs the whole sensor exposed to the light. With mechanical shutter, you need exposures of 1/250s or slower. With electronic shutter, you would need an exposure of something like 1/30s or slower. This is unacceptable slow so they don't even allow it.
Thanks for the info Ulrich...I definitely remember recording a section about the rolling shutter effect with silent shutter...so I'm not sure what happened to that section of the video...🤔🤦🏻♂️ The readout is soooo slow isn't it. That makes sense with the flash now...thanks for pointing that out. 👍
@@mikesphotography I was a little bit surprised because the other points in the video and very well explained and the rolling shutter is more or less the most important disadvantage of electronic shutter. You can use this opportunity and make a complete video about rolling shutter distortion. Probably also with examples electronic vs. mechanical vs. flash (with a fan for example). If you get the A7S-III in you hands, you also could compare it with the A7-III. The A7S-III should be able to read the sensor much faster. I hope sensors are going to be even faster in the future, so we can get rid of the mechanical shutter and this would give room to put optional ND-filter in the body.
Useful. I mainly leave E shutter on with my a7iii. And haven’t noticed any issues. And considering the shutter failure issues I’ve heard of with a7iii I prefer to play it safe.
I am an introvert, so I prefer the silent shutter to be unnoticed. I switch to mechanical in isolated environments, like forests or mountains, because it feels nicer.
It is much more discrete with the silent shutter on isn't it...especially when using the monitor on the back of the cam and shooting from the hip. Thanks for watching and commenting Ruben, much appreciated. 😁👍
I became aware of the ‘issue’ surrounding Sony’s a7iii shutter (I have one myself) today and honestly was a little worried. I’ve used mechanical shutter mostly since having it a year and paid no mind to the wear the fiction could be causing. I’m considering using the silent shutter when it suits from now on but will also try not to worry too much as you said. I’m so grateful for your videos!
Hi Claire, I wouldn't worry too much about the shutter issues. With any mass produced cameras, there will inevitably be some failures...and with the internet in its current state, problems will rise to the surface...and the more you search for them, the more you will come across...my A7iii is currently around 150,000 activations and still going strong... Thanks for watching 😁👍
Silent electronic shutter produces 12bit raw files. Mechanical shutter produces 14bit raw files. It could be a thing with extreme color manipulation or shadow recovery, but most of the time is not an issue
Great video. Was looking at 2nd hand cameras earlier and saw shutter count mentioned alot to indicate condition, so using silent shutter more often to keep shutter count down might also increase the resale value of a camera in some places.
Thanks for the vid, Boxhead Mike! ;) I like using silent mode when shooting in restaurants - don't usually like to attract too much attention when eating!
Good thing I looked this up! Going to begin using a tripod outside for sharper, less noisy images but have been worried about the shutter moving the camera too much on the flimsy tripod I have to use for the sake of weight
Hello! i have three(3) Sony a7iii in my list and i think im having problem with the one re: color of the video/movie mode. one of them kinda weird coz the standard color doesnt match with the other two a73. but when i turned it into photo mode and shift the silent shooting ON. The original color appears. Silent shooting is unable to adjust when in video/movie mode. anyone experienced the same?
Thank you for this video. The social media has so hyped up shutter failure that I was thinking of selling all my a7 gear and replace it with another camera’s. It would set me back several thousand dollars. I had seen myself going on long uphill trail only to find my shutter crashing. After watching your video I am certainly going to turn on the silent front curtain, which should cut my mechanical shutter usage in half. Also I have heard that buying a later made camera then the first available would help correct the problem. Sony doesn’t admit it if true. Thanks again for giving me confidence in my a7iii and saving me a pile of money. All the best to you.
That's great to hear Edward. It has definitely been hyped up by social media...when you search for one thing, social will show you more of the same, and with "issues" like this, it makes it seem worse than it is. Some people have had issues, but because they sold so many cameras, there would always be a percentage that did fail. I think Sony messed up by not offering free shutter replacements where it could be proven that the shutter activation was low. I bought one of the first ones that came in to the country I was living in and haven't had any issues with it. I think I must be on about 150,000 activations now and it's still going strong. I have e-front curtain on, and silent mode off and it works great. 😁👍
With any motion in your frame, vertical lines will get out of shape and the issues with certain frequency lighting... However if you're photographing still objects in natural light, silent mode can work well.
Bro, are you reading my mind? I didn't get to watch the video till now, but I was thinking a LOT about _exactly_ this subject for the last few days - and boom, here Mike uploads the the exact video I need. Well done!
Thanks for the info! I used to use the silent mode, but I had to turn it off. I had some issues in exposure at some kind of places (Churchs, interiors...) I've got the same look when the flash is fired over the sync speed, this black band, but just underexposed, not entire black. Not in every shot. When I shoot continuosly Hi, I get 5 diferent images, each one, with different colour temperature, and with different exposure from top to bottom. On th other hand, if you move yourself while shooting (yo don't have to do that, but I photograph dogs and sometime happens) you get some distorted images. I like silent mode, but I can't use it too much.
No worries. Silent mode is useful but like you said, there are situations where it ruins the photo. I think in a few years time it will be a lot better, but for now I'd say the mechanical shutter is so much better with a lot of movement or under certain artificial lights. Thanks for watching 😁👍
nice video. I shoot media for a high school and have covered performing arts events for 19 years and sports for 8 years I am a canon and a Sony shooter with dslr and mirrorless camera bodies I always use the silent shutter in the auditorium. This is especially useful when I am taking photographs While my video camera is running and this avoids the shutter click noise of a traditional DSLR camera. But whenever the tech crew turns on the spotlight on the performers I have to turn off silent shutter because of banding and use the mechanical shutter. I have learned that there is also a concern using the silent mode shooting sporting events. This became very apparent this basketball season when I tried to use a canon R7 and R10 cameras that I purchased. Those cameras have a slow readout speeds of the sensor and there was warping of the images because of rolling shutter. so much so that the silent mode is unusable when shooting basketball. For example, the basketball was no longer round in the pictures shot with these cameras when using the silent shutter. I thought that I was going to be able to use the very high frame rate that these cameras offer but i Learned that I can only use the mechanical shutter For sporting events. However if a camera has a stacked and bsi sensor like a Sony A9, a92, canon R3, Nikon Z9 and Sony A1 the sensory readout speed is fast enough that you can use the electronic shutter for sport or wildlife shooting without restriction. So I bought a used a9 for $50 dollars more than the cost of my r7. the Sony A9 is older but the pictures with the electronic shutter are great. yes basketballs can be round again the my pictures. all other mirrorless cameras without a high end sensor (a Traditional cmos sensor with slower sensor readout speed) are going to have issues with Rolling shutter and warped images during wildlife and sporting photography.when the camera is panned to follow true action and to a lessor degree when subject is stationary. Only the most night end cameras don't have an issue. The Nikon Z9 doesn't even have a mechanical shutter at all and taking images with it Has no restrictions. Manufactures are now creating problems of their new basic models by having high frame rates but slow sensor read out. For example i already mentioned my limitations of using the electronic shutter with the Canon r7 and r10 models. It's good they have good frame rates with their mechanical shutter. but now canon has released the R8 model which will have a slower sensor read out speed and very high frame rate but they removed the mechanical shutter. It has electronic 1st curtain and the second curtain is mechanical and an electronic shutter. They have removed a completely mechanical shutter and I think that's a bad decision. People need to recognize how important the sensor speed is for electronic shutter performance and image quality.
I have the silent toggle on a custom button. I change it so often in my type of shooting. I only use full mechanical when i use flash outdoors other than that silent and e curtain is what i use most.
This bulb mode not working in Silent Shutter mode is really annoying. Not only because you can't do more than 30 seconds exposure, but also because you can not use an external intervalometer (If you do you use it, you should turn bulb mode on to not have conflict between the camera exposure time and intervalometer exposure time). For example...I need an external intervalometer to synchronize the camera shooting and the motion control device when I do Milky Way time-lapse. This means I have to choose between abuse of my shutter mechanic or not having movement in my timelapse!
Thanks for your thoughts Leonardo. That is all correct. It is really annoying not being able to use bulb mode in silent mode. I'm not sure why they do it...
I am now "forced" to use E shutter since my mechanical curtain got stuck causing the blades to bend ever so slightly and as a result I now get a light leak on exposures about 1/1000. I do not have this issue at lower speeds.
I was really hoping the electronic shutter would be available with bulb mode. I do astrophotography and it usually involves lots of exposures and time. But most of all, the electronic shutter would be able to eliminate all vibration from the shutter. Not a super big deal.
Unfortunately not. However, with the sony cameras, the mechanical shutter only activates for the closing of the shutter, as long as you have e front curtain shutter on. So this would be just like having the mirror locked up in a DSLR.
I use silent mode pretty much all the time. I mostly shoot without too much action in front of the lens (landscape, perched birds etc) so I don't see why I shouldn't use the silent shutter as default. Less wear on my precious gear. I only switch to mechanical when I'm in a situation where I absolutely need it. I've actually assigned a custom button to quickly switch between silent and mechanical shutter. Maybe I'm worrying too much about the wear/shutter shock, and I do miss the sweet sound of the mechanical shutter at times, but I still think it's worth it. "Better safe than sorry". Thanks for a very informative video!
No worries! Yes that is fine, although I do get quite a few emails so it takes a while sometimes to reply...especially if I am out working or away from the office...My email is at the bottom of the description in most of my tutorials. Thanks 😁👍
My a7rIIIa hates the mechanical shutter above 1/6400. So when I'm shooting a bird in flight outside and it is super sunny, I definitely shoot silent. Otherwise the top of the photo sometimes will be significantly darker than the bottom. Certainly at 1/8000. So for people shooting in real light outside, there is no reason for a mechanical shutter at all.
I wish nikon would make a z6ii or z7ii with the features of the z9 no shutter curtains anymore! Z9 is pricey for my use and bulky too. Cant wait for nikon to have that in their entry level cameras i will surely switch and sell all my sony when that happens!
I watched because I'm shopping for a used A7 III and today I found two that are the same distance to drive (long drives for me). One body stands out because it states a count of 120,000 for $1700 while several others for $200 more are way down at 7500. I never even thought about shutter count until I saw that many sellers include that information.
Hey Charlie, Is that with a lens? Both seem expensive ... I've just looked on ebay and there are A7iii (body only) going for anywhere between $800 and $1600 USD.
If I am shopping for a second hand camera, I'll go on to ebay, search for the camera I am thinking of and then go to advanced settings and select include completed listings ... then all the green ones are ones that have been purchased ... this gives you an idea of what they are currently selling for. I rarely buy off Ebay but it is a good tool to work out what is the current market price. I hope that helps. 👍
@@mikesphotography Thanks for the tip about Ebay. I would want to see those close at. I don't see any deals on Ebay (not just cameras) if I want to purchase from within Canada. I do see Ebay listings in the US that are so low even with shipping and customs that it is tempting if it's all legit. Kijiji is where I have been contacting sellers I can drive there and back in half a day.
@@mikesphotography Those are Cdn $ prices. (US$0.80) so C$1700 is US $1360. Body only A7III from authorized Cdn retailers is US$2160 everywhere. Ouch!!!
UPDATE - The next day I picked up a full kit in the box, unregistered, shutter count under 3700. The place he bought it from about a year ago is a reputable national chain here. My cost for the kit US $1740. If I bought from a retailer here after tax it would be US$2531. You think I was having a good day? :) Super nice person to deal with too.
With a baseball game, I would keep it to the shutter setting it comes in as standard (so silent shutter off and mechanical closing shutter), otherwise you will end up with an oval ball when it is moving fast ... also if you are close enough, it could warp the players if they are charging for the next base. Thanks for watching 😁👍
Great information, well shared Mike . With the E Shutter I get use to the sounds, when I use the mechanic Shutter the first few clicks you wonder if the camera is coming apart. I’m on an A9 I don’t use the Mechanic much.
Haha!! I bet it's quite a shock hearing the shutter after using the silent mode for a while. Our wedding photographer had 2 A9s and it was so nice not having the constant clicking all day...definitely a bonus to a customer of a photographer...The A9 is a much better camera for silent mode. I've rented them a few times and everytime I'm sad to see them go back...I should really invest in one... Thanks for watching and commenting, much appreciated. 😁👍
Didn't know about the flash and that nasty banding, thanks! By the way I've seen the moire patterns in the photo of the tv screen and I can't help to ask: the only way I've found to avoid moire specially when shooting video is to use fast apertures under f/2 ¿ do pro photographers use any techniques in that matter? ¿Or is it just my Sony APS-C camera?
No worries Isaac...the banding is bad isn't it! Moire is a pain sometimes...only really when shooting tightly lined suits and shirts and monitors and TV screens...another way to get rid of it is to just push the focus off the moise section just a little bit...but then it is annoying with a slightly soft video or stills image. Thanks for watching. 👍
Great educational video. Subscribing. My sony a6500 recently had the dreaded "camera error" (had shutter actuations of a little over 100,000) My shutter seemed be stuck and i had to get it repaired. Just got my camera back this week and ive been using silent shutter just to be careful. Now I'm REALLY interested in the sony a9/a9ii cameras. I love to shoot dancing and i need the quick continous shooting. With silent shooting the a6500's continous shooting is limited to the low option (about 2 or 3 shots a second). Now im dying here! I love the camera, so I will keep it as back up. The a9 series is calling me.
Unfortunately the shutters will fail eventually...but if you have a new shutter in your A6500, that should be good for another 100,000 shots at least...It is worrying when it does happen but just think of all of thopse photos you took with it before it jammed. I'd get the A9ii if you can afford it and then keep the A6500 as a backup. I hope that helps. 😁👍
Mike i just bought my sony a7iii and i heard a lot about sony shutter failure What causes the shutter failure ? Is using silent shoot reduce that chance and what causes it ?? Thanks for the video nice and informative ❤👌
It's basically because so many of them were made ... there will always be a certain percentage that will fail and because of how vocal the community is ... especially the Sony haters, it was blown out of proportion (that's what I think anyway). I know a lot of A7iii users that have shutter counts way into the 100,000s that are perfectly happy with them. If the camera is dropped, if it gets a lot of dirt in the sensor bay, or if it abused in one way or another, this is normally when it will fail... I wouldn't worry too much though. Just enjoy your camera and use the silent mode if you are shooting a timelapse or if you want to be quiet...that's what I do and my camera is still going strong after 3 years. Thanks for watching 😁👍
Useful info and caveats, Mike. Venue your new abode? Have used all e-shutter to attain highest shutter speeds for “freezing” water droplets of a fountain (no flash). Some use “rolling shutter” e-shutter for special effects by quickly rotating camera around lens axis during a slower exposure to get twist in subjects. What’s your take on how soon we may get an all-electronic “global shutter”?
Thanks Paul, Yep, this is the new place! I have a blank canvas at the moment, hence the white background. Just busy planning how to setup the room for tutorials and editing...might even make a video on it...🤔 That sounds interesting...I wonder if it would give results like the water worm in that old movie the Abyss!? 🤔 I'm hoping a global shutter will become widespread within the next 5-10 years, although companies keep going back to increasing the megapixel count keeping that old fight going and distracting the engineers away from the global shutter...I'm sure there's an old guy who just won't retire who has a big sharehold on the company that just pipes up every now and then shouting "we need to increase the megapixel count," before going back to his dusty corner office!! 😆
I was sooo happy having a silent shutter on my camera whilst holding it onto my lap on a Japanese train when some otaku weirdo was sniffing my sister trying to get a scent of tall western women. She still doesn't appreciate the pictures. :-) I can truly recommend it for those type of situations.
Hi Mike, I would just like to clarify that when you talk about using the mechanical shutter are you meaning with efront curtain shutter on or fully mechanical and efront off. I watched a couple of times and don't think you made a distinction. Thanks
Hi Peter, Sorry for the confusion. I mean with the e front curtain on...as the camera comes as standard. I definitely should have mentioned that after talking about the e front curtain. Thanks for pointing this out. 😁👍
Thanks for the explanation. Was bothered with banding while shooting inside with artificial lighting. Silent shutter should be fine with natural light.
You are right ... it's tricky under different artificial light sources, but in natural light it works well. The only other thing to watch out for is fast moving objects. Thanks for watching 😁👍
Definitely worth a like and a subscribe. I have the Sony a7 II, and I could not understand why there was no “Silent Shutter” option. I thought that the shutter sound I was hearing was an audio sound effect, like on a iPhone camera, that could simply be turned off. Now that I know the sound is REAL, that physical parts are moving around, it does not bother me anymore than it did on a 35mm film SLR. Thanks!
Another great video full of useful information. I use silent mode with the screen off when I take time lapses in public. I just stand next to the camera like I am waiting for someone. Sometimes I sit somewhere with the camera right next to me like I am tired. Before people would ask what I was doing, standing right in front of my camera. Shutter wear scares me the most. My last camera went though two shutters. I feel safe that at least I could still use my camera in silent mode. Thank you. Stay safe and sane.
Thanks so much Lance. I know what you mean about having the camera clicking away...it really does drawer attention whereas if you stand like you're waiting for someone with it on silent, people tend to ignore it. There's nothing worse than having someone coming over and standing right in front of the camera mid timelapse...🤦🏻♂️ Thanks dude. 😁👍
I’m so exasperated that Sony does not support users experiencing shutter curtain failures if the camera is more than one year old (since purchase). $500 labor, $150 parts. I’m so angry.
I bet that is really frustrating. Especially with such a low shutter count. They really should have fixed them for free if it is a faulty part, I think Nikon has had the same issue in the past and they offered a free fix.
Hello, Mike! I like the lightning you used in this video. As for the silent shutter I use it pretty much every time on my a7r3, unless it is under artificial lightning or using flash. The main disadvantage for electronic is weird rolling shutter effects due camera or model/subject movement. It happens even in very static scenarios, guess focal length and IBIS have the impact on rolling shutter effect. And main advantage of the mechanical shutter is pleasing sound and vibration when shutter actuates, electronic shutter just gives no feedback and it feels strange. Thanks fo the video
Thanks so much Alex...I used a big 90cm softbox and a the apurture MC light as a hair light...just playing around with different setups at the moment in my videos. 👍 I definitely had the rolling shutter bit in my script but I must have missed it out...🤦🏻♂️ It is bad isn't it...from one of the other comments, apparently it takes about 1/40th second for the full sensor readout in silent mode. Thanks for watching. 😁👍
Thanks Mike for the informative video. I have just got my Sony a7iii and used it the other day for shooting birds found the Silent Shutter to be invaluable for that genre. Love your site .
Even though there are lots of horror stories about the shutter in the A7iii, there are millions of people who have this camera and haven't had any problems with it. Before I sold mine, the shutter count was at about 150,000 and it was still going strong. Thanks for watching 😁👍
Hi Mike, Thank you for the great video. I would like to ask you, Does Silent Mode is beneficial while the camera is on Tripod to reduce the camera shake caused by the mechanical shutter? I do have A7iii and I was thinking for my next trip, I use Silent Shooting with a tripod. does it have disadvantages?
If you use any of the sony cameras with the mechanical shutter in the standard factory setting, this already has a electronic front shutter, so there would be no moving parts when first taking the photo. The shutter just moves when closing the shutter...so there would be no advantage in shooting from a tripod in silent mode. If you have E front curtain shutter switched off, this might then cause some camera shake. So having E front curtain shutter turned on is like the mirror lock on, in normal DSLRs. I hope that makes sense. Thanks for watching 😁👍
@@mikesphotography Hi, thank you for the great explanation, I was unaware of the E-front shutter option, I just checked its on in my camera. thank you :)
I never thought about the wear of the mechanical shutter. So in case over the period of usage of the camera the shutter does wear off, is there any way to replace it or do we have to toss the body ? :|
In theory it will break after a certain number of actuations. Some will break earlier than others...but nowadays it's in the hundreds of thousands of images... I have around 120,000 on my a7iii and it's still going strong... You can get them replaced for about $300-400 ish.
Okay thanks. I checked my count is around 30ish. I will probably try to use electronic shutter going forward when clicking random stuff. And also, I keep Hi shooting mode mostly 3-5 shots on one click. I will change it back to single shot 😌
Mine is probably pushing past 100,000 by now...if not 150,000... The problem is that it was such a successful camera and so many units were sold, that a certain percentage failed...and with the way social media works, feeding you more of what you are looking for, everyone and anyone who searched for "a7iii shutter problems" will then be fed more stories about problems with the shutter creating a bigger problem than it really was. In saying that, Sony probably should have handled it a little better...if they'd have responded by saying that as long as there was no negligence they would replace it for free, they would have cemented a much larger fan base and solved what has become a bit of an online headache...👍
@@mikesphotography thanks, hope mine reaches that many. Sorry about the delay and thanks for always answering have learned a lot about the camera from you
It sucks when you get a bad one Russel...and you're right, they should replace shutters that have failed with a low count. One way to put people off the brand is to not offer good customer service.
Really useful video. Applies to the fuji x range too, shutter there is called mechanical and electronic (silent). Re bulb mode, its how the electronic shutter reads light, it scans down the sensor not all on blast like mechanical. On bulb, the camera doesn't know how long the exposure is going to be, so it can't use the scan down method as it might get shut off too early or late by the photographer.
I use silent mode for theater shooting during performances. I have gotten the banding badly. I have found that shooting at 100 speed rather than 400 speed lessens the banding. Of course this limits my action shots so it only works for some scenes without choreography or a lot of movement. I shoot with Canon lenses using a Sigma adapter. I have found that when I shoot rehearsals with the mechanical shutter on, I get sharper focus at all settings for theater applications. Due to this I now only use silent shutter when it's imperative for me to not disturb an event. The Canon lens I use are the 2.8L 70-200 IS & a Canon 2.8 24-70 IS. I don't have a native prime lens yet to compare images to but I get some very spot on low lighting action shots on the stage in silent mode at 400, 2.8, 3200 without banding. There are certain LED lights set up on the side of the theater that cause the banding when they are on as well as any projection screens used in a few productions. Singing in the Rain at the Redlands Bowl was a banding nightmare because I had to shoot in silent and several scenes used a screen for the backdrop. I had to shoot to the side action rather than directly on and use some creative editing to make the other shots look good. Since I was shooting for pleasure and not a job, it was great experience trying to figure out how to work around this.
