Hey all! A couple little things to note here! 1. When speaking on the Quickened Spell Metamagic, I mentioned that you may only cast one leveled spell per turn. This is technically not true. The rules actually say specifically that, if you cast a leveled spell as a bonus action, you cannot use your action to cast another leveled spell. This is an important distinction because you can still cast a spell on your turn with your reaction if so prompted and the same holds true if you have an extra action via the fighter's action surge or something similar! 2. When discussing the Aberrant Mind Sorcerer, I mentioned that your psionic spells could be swapped out with evocation or divination spells. I misspoke here and meant to say enchantment or divination instead! As always, thanks for watching and letting me know about these little slip ups so I can make sure no one is confused by them!
@@TheRobversion1 haha I know I just try to be as spot on as possible and sometimes you just don’t know what you don’t know. That said, I don’t mind the “memeable” offenses haha. The jokes are fun to reference in future videos and it always makes engagement better. Perhaps I’ll try pronouncing something else the wrong way soon 😂🤪
@@ConstructedChaos I'd vote for that just to mess with the viewers. haha. I'd also vote for you to either: 1. shave your beard (especially if you can make it so that people donate something for a good cause) or reshape your beard into something funny like a "monkey tail." 2. wear a wig. 3. talk in an accent for the full length of a short vid. 4. do a short dance to something kpop to start/end the vid.
@@TheRobversion1 hahahaha I haven’t shaved my beard in close to 10 years. No telling what it looks like under there! Maybe that could be a big milestone celebration with a charity stream or something haha
Subtle spell can be really good because it makes it so it can't be counterspelled. Subtle spell allows you to cast a spell without somatic or verbal components. Counterspell you have to see them and it says you are, "attempting to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell." It does require some interpretation, but a lot of people say that since with subtle spell you don't do anything that would signal you are casting a spell, it just casts before the spellcaster can see you doing it. The spell goes off and it is too later to "interrupt the casting of the spell."
i don't think it requires interpretation as this has been backed up by the game designers as well. it's really great especially in stealth/political/social campaigns or if your DM likes sending alot of casters with counterspell. one of my faves and something i pick up once i pick the critical metamagics up (usually quicken spell).
@@RobearRich those types of DMs imo are not worth playing with. subtle spell (and by extension psionic sorcery) circumventing counterspells is common knowledge in the Dnd space online. and yes the 1 sorc point cost i've found to be ideal for triggering shard effects (magical sorc items) when i wasn't planning to use a metamagic with the spell during casting.
Subtle spell is probably the best metamagic option, it counters most anti-magic tactics, such as counterspell or even silence. The added stealth potential and being able to cast devastating spells on unsuspecting enemies without them having any way of knowing who cast it causes me to pick this up even playing other casters through the metamagic adept feat.
1. All sorcerers should get extra spells known like the aberrant mind and clockwork soul. For divine soul they could prepare spells from the cleric spell list each day equivalent to their Proficiency modifier. This change would make them unique as a both Known and prepared caster and give you room to get spells from both lists. Aberrant mind and clockwork soul already grant them more known spells and options to replace them. Giving these options to other subclasses would make them more in line and more well balanced with the other casters. 2. Giving sorcerers (and also monks but its not this convo to talk about this class) the ability to regain sorcery points during combat. for example If you crit with an attack roll, roll a 20 on a saving throw or a target rolls a 1 on their save against your spell you regain sorcery points (for example equal to your prof mod ) or if you used metamagic this round you regain the points spent. This would give those critical situations more impact. 3. Dragon ancestry could be expanded to the new gem dragons giving you more psychic necrotic and radiant damage.
some good points. 1. agreed with #1. i'd tweak the divine soul prep into prof bonus x2 to make it more in line with the number of extra spells known of the aberrant mind/clock. 2. interesting idea and something i'd definitely like to see to make crits more of valuable mechanic aside from just additional dmg. 3. agreed here too. with different spell lists per elemental type.
In specific, I almost mentioned that last point myself in the video but I forgot haha. Definitley something I'd allow in my games and something I think most other DMs would be fine with too.
@@ConstructedChaos I'd be fine with that too. doing it doesn't add anything mechanically anyway. just changes the resistance/spell dmg type dmg bonus options.
@@TheRobversion1 the fact that you can prepare spells from the entire cleric spell list each day kinda makes up for the lesser number. I mean you could also replace a few of your sorc spells with cure wounds revivify and spiritual weapon/spirit guardians.
I completely agree about how all sorcerers should get the extra spells known like the two subclasses from Tasha's. WotC will probably do this when 5.5e comes out in 2024.
There is no rule that states you can't cast more than one leveled spell per turn. This is a common misconception. You can't use your bonus action to cast a levelled spell if you used your action to do so, or vice versa. Nothing is stopping you from, say, using action surge from a fighter dip to cast two levelled spells. Also, you didn't mention one of the most popular uses for subtle spell - preventing your casting from being counterspelled.
It boils down to the same thing, does it not? I often paraphrase rules like this so the video doesn’t end up longer than it needs to be. You’re right about subtle spell, though! I totally forgot to mention you could do that!
@@ConstructedChaos yeah he's right. it's not really a niche ruling but RAW. action surge allows you to cast 2 levelled spells in 1 turn as long as you don't cast a bonus action spell. you can even do 3 if you use your reaction/warcaster. or 4 if you have contingency active. like my scribes wiz (shared in your wiz vid) who picks up fighter 2 after scribes 13, artificer 1 typically had this action sequence for toughest fight of the day at the tailend of the campaign: contingency trigger pre-combat: cast blink when i say "oh shit." 1st round: free action: oh shit. (blink casts) bonus action: move manifest mind beside bbeg action: sickening radiance the bbeg action surge: forcecage reaction: counterspell if the bbeg counterspells that's 4 levelled spells in 1 turn.
Subtle spell is absolutely necessary on my paladin/sorcerer multiclass. You can use subtle spell to cast spells with somatic components when your hands are full
@@kevinlambo3211 Well, the war caster feat does quite a bit more and this would be somewhat limited use. If I was picking between the two, I'd take the feat. But, it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison.
I played a Clockwork Soul Sorcerer who served as a scholar to a conclave of Oath of the Watchers Paladins. I took spells focused on manipulation of time and dunamancy, specifically the gravity based spells. I took Quickened, Transmuted and Twinned Spell in order to keep my allies safe and have quite a bit of battlefield control. At a certain point, I was basically playing 4D chess with the DM, locking enemy movements, boosting allies and dealing mostly thunder and force based damage. It's not overpowered, but that character was basically a god by the time we'd finished.
I love builds like this, honestly! It's weird because I usually play archers or mages in other games but I seem to be drawn to support builds in 5E. I think it's an archetype a lot of players sleep on!
Subtle spell also makes your spells uncounterable making it great too out cast wizards and end a counterspell fight simply by casting a subtle counterspell
Was in a one-shot last week where I tried out the aberrant mind sorcerer. Character was a young farm boy that gained his powers after a beholder fell in his field (my headcanon is that it was the result of some adventuring party winning a Spelljammer boss fight) and getting hit with the resulting psychic wave of its death. Poor guy ended up manifesting his spells through panic and fear (the one-shot was a Hell run so he was constantly surrounded by demons).
Oh man that sounds like a great time! And I love the inspiration for the character too haha. Nobody ever thinks about what happens to the creatures players kill!
It is possible to get your warlock spell slots to get sorcerer points but you can't get your sorcerer spell slots back with a short rest because the players handbook says you can use the spell slots you gain from the PACT MAGIC feature to cast spells you know or have prepared from classes with the spellcasting feature, and you can use the spell slots you gain from the spell slots you gain from the spellcasting class feature to cast warlock spells you know. And also when I read the multi classing part it does not say you you can use the tabel of spell slots per level. So that means you need to keep you spell slots separate. You can read in the players handbook the part of multiclassing (p 164) and the part of pact magic (p107)
What I think you're missing here is the fact that we can convert warlock spell slots into sorcery points and then use those points to refuel our sorcerer slots. Jeremy Crawford has since clarified that sorcery points are only intended to work with sorcerer spell slots but this isn't RAW, it's RAI and up for interpretation depending on the table you play at. Anyway, yes, of course spell slots from sorcerer and warlock spell slots need to be kept separately. I don't think I ever said they'd combine in this video.
Two things that really made the sorcerer in our game shine as a unique and natural talent of magic. I added two spells for levels 1-5 just like the two new subclasses and they get to use the optional Spell Points in the DMG. This lets them really look, feel, and play differently than any other caster. I matched the spells with their subclass and they were usually the utility-type spells that sorcerers cannot afford to take. I do make them track their Sorcerery Points and their Spell Points separately and use the bonus action to convert if they wish.
Sounds reasonable enough! It does bother me a bit that WOTC didn't just add in spell lists for the other subclasses. I would have thought that'd be a no-brainer.
@@ConstructedChaos Agreed. they should've gone back and added it for all sorc subclasses. some ranger subclasses stick out like a sore thumb too without the added spells like the newer ones.
nice. this reminds of the power point system for psionics in 3.5. i wished they used that instead of spell slots for sorcs to really make them feel different from bards and wizards.
@@ConstructedChaos We actually did these changes about a year before they came out with Tasha's. Right away we saw that the class and subclasses were lacking the feel of an innate genius at spellcasting.
Given that the latest two subclasses have a flavoured spell list, and the Divine Soul has half of one, it does make sense to provide these in full for all subclasses. The big drawback of sorcerors is that they only get 15 known spells at most, which really leaves nothing free to provide a bit of flavour or consistency between sorcerors of the same subclass (the only exception which comes to mind is the shadow sorceror's Darkness spell). Adding ten flavoured spells, plus the ability to swap some of them out for a set of spells of defined type, complements this limitation very nicely, all while staying within the flexibility concept. At present -- without a formal definition of each flavoured spell list, which is necessary to make PCs portable between DMs -- I see the sorceror as little more use than a half-caster, so only tend to take it as part of a multiclass character.
On Sorcerer consider these points: -Exceptional Dip for cantrips and Con You not only get the Constitution proficiency but also *FOUR (4) cantrips* . That is the most starting in the game. And remember cantrips don’t care what classes you are as they go up with CHARACTER level. If this is your goal consider Dragon and the Big 3 (Aberrant Mind, Clockwork Soul and Divine) - Dragons are okay The Dragon sorcerer is actually an great dip but is stealthily also is the only Sorcerer to not have low hp. They get +1 hp per level and if you don’t roll your HP you get half. That means they get the equivalent of a D8 hp in addition to always on Mage Armor. -Metamagic is Broken No seriously it sorta is in the worst way. This is why Sorcerers need to be taken by a moderately experienced player. You have to have a firm grasp on how spells work. Read them MULTIPLE times. And do research. Example: You can’t (famously) twin scorching ray but you also can’t twin fly cast at level 4 for the same reason - you can target them at multiple targets already. Example 2: Subtle Spell can be used to cast a spell cast in the middle silence spell effect. Example 3: The Shadow Sorcerer has a hound of Ill Omen so it is not usually useful to also grab Heightened Spell. -Flexible cast with your origin in mind Pay attention to the flexible cost of a couple of sorcerers. Shadows and aberrant minds come instantly to well mind because casting with spell points can be more efficient. - No effective Ritual Casting If you come from other spell casting classes, the Sorcerer can’t ritual cast spells. So if they cast the spell they use a slot. Period no stop. This can be a bit of an issue so it may be worth getting Ritual Caster as a feat as a result. YMMV on this but people see some lists with Sorcerer spells have the Ritual Tag but that just says it can be if you have Ritual Caster (and if you get the feat as a sorcerer you do NOT have to get it for your spell list). ((( Suggestion below so you know))) -Fixing the Dragon Sorcerer (suggestion) While considered the base of the class, they have been left behind pretty badly. If you want to go Dragon but are put off by the spell power 5e gives you, ask your DM to give you this : ~ give you the ability to call a real pseudo dragon as a familiar at level 2 for 2 points and one hour concentration. ~ one spell added to spells known at each spell level 2-5 out of Fizban Treasury of Dragons and re-flavor as needed to your elemental type. These are already Sorcerer spell but they then are free and a couple added to your element. That should get you feeling as powerful as other sorcerers.
some great points here. i'll respond to some: 1. agreed though i consider wild magic to be an excellent dip as well if your DM always lets you surge for on demand advantage. 2. no sorc in their right mind would burn their concen slot on a pseudodragon familiar. remove concen and simply make this ability similar to the chainlock. i'd remove the sorc point cost but i don't see it as too detrimental to have a sorc point cost. 3. i'd make it 2 spells per level to make it uniform and as you said match the elemental types.
@@TheRobversion1 I would do something similar to what the genie warlock does. You have an expanded spell list and depending on which dragon you choose would determine the spells.
@@TheRobversion1 The suggestion is a simple punch list that even the most conservative DM is likely to agree to and you quickly can optimize. The Dungeon dudes did a element by element Dragon Sorcerer and it is pretty good if you want to go full on. Also, on the Psudodragon, I am not giving you a Find Familiar spell. This is to keep it I n line with the subtle spell metamagic. The little guy while on brand also gives a big defensive boost! One can argue one of the best in the game. Once summoned note that I gave no time limit; it is a hour to “cast only! Also I did it like this so that i didn’t trivialize other class abilities. So you (unlike the Pact of the chain Warlock) get ONLY a pseudo dragon familiar not one that can take any form to blend in or turn invisible or shoot people with sleep arrows. Lastly, (sorry I write so much) the last two (Aberrant & Order) are the only ones with the full on 10 spells. If there is two sorcerers at the table and you give the Dragon 10, then you must do the same for the other options. Dungeon dudes did this but conservative DM may not. I hope that clears up why I went that way. :)
@@leodouskyron5671 yeah i wouldnt consider that a simple punch list. it was long. haha anyway yeah i saw the dungeon dudes vid and that's the same direction i'd go. i dont understand the defensive benefit you talk about with the pseudodragon and how it's one of the best in the game. familiars are utility abilities and not defensive. my issue is not with the duration but with the concentration. any sorc would have better things to concentrate on. actually giving the find familiar spell for the cost of subtle spell metamagic is actually in line with find familiar as the sorc point cost is a 1st level spell. find familiar is a 1st level spell. no worries about writing long. i do too! haha.
Storm sorcerer with 2 levels tempest cleric with transmuted spell is really cool. you can make thunderballs that do max damage and you get access to cleric spells to boost combat.
storm sorc isn't really needed here. in fact a tempest cleric main (6 levels at least) then add sorc does this better. storm sorc really doesn't have strong synergies here and you can achieve more optimal effects using a different sorc subclass such as draconic, wild, clock, divine, or shadow. with that said i do agree that it's really cool and i've played this type of lightning caster before built around quicken spell, transmute spell, destructive wrath, action surge and call lighting. clock was my sorc subclass for transmuted armor of agathys + thunderous strike combo and restore balance.
@@purpledevilr7463 also ranger before tasha but monk is also objectively worse than fighter as all of monks extra hits come from being unarmed and they deal less damage then any other martial class even starting equipment for fighter is better then most level 20 monks
Since i've shared a build in your past class vids. thought i'd share one of my fave sorcs that i've played in the past. This build was inspired by a dark jedi/sit concept where they are more in-tune with the "force" but this also leads to a lot of random force disruptions (wild magic surges). level 10 theorycraft with action flow as always: "Dark Jedi" wild magic sorc 9, hexblade 1 (hexblade was chosen for flavor but could be any subclass) custom lineage: eldritch adept: repelling blast asi: +3 cha, +1 con (can also replace +2 cha with lucky) metamagic: quicken spell, subtle spell key spells: telekinesis, eldritch blast (not much spells known needed in this build. this is the bread and butter every combat) pre-combat: convert pact slots and un-needed 2nd/4th level slots into extra 5th level slots. tides of chaos your initiative. 1st round: bonus action: quicken telekinesis the bbeg 30 ft into the air (magical guidance/lucky/tides of chaos as needed). surge. tides of chaos reset. action: move the bbeg 60 ft into the air reaction: shield/absorb elements/counterspell/bend luck/hellish rebuke as needed 2nd round: bonus action: quicken repelling blast at advantage to push bbeg 70-80 ft into the air. this breaks the hold of telekinesis because it exceeds the maximum distance which will cause the bbeg to fall prone taking 7-8d6 falling dmg action: re-apply telekinesis on the fallen bbeg. move them 30 ft to the air 3rd round: bonus action: quicken spell whatever non-concen spell you want like grease or tasha's mind whip to recharge your tides of chaos. or perhaps convert spare 2nd/4th level slots to sorc points if you're running low. or perhaps hexblade's curse the bbeg to speed up the killing. action: move the bbeg 60 ft into the air continue doing the 2nd-3rd round until bbeg is dead then use telekinesis on another target. the build basically lands telekinesis all the time (much like a certain sith) at level 10. tides of chaos provides advantage. magical guidance provides a reroll of the ability check for 1 sorc point. lucky allows you another reroll 3x a day. and worst comes to worst you can use your reaction and bend luck to give yourself a 1d4 bonus. the tools a wild magic sorc has makes them the best telekinesis controller in the game. telekinesis is such a great core tactic as it works on almost everything. I wanted to share this build as i've seen multiple people in the comments harp on how sorcs lack power due to limited spells known. this build is an example of something optimized using a handful of spells.
I just started playing my first long term campaign sorcerer. Wild magic and my dm really let me have creative freedoms here as to his origin. A mimic.. who ate a wild magic sorcerer while in a dungeon. Now I can take on human form and use wild magic. My party does not know this yet so it’s going to be fun keeping that fact hidden as I can still object shift as well. His name? Liam Camim. Which is essentially an anagram for “I am a mimic”.
@@ConstructedChaos a sorcerer? Nope. Only played one in a one shot a few years back. I’ve been playing D&D though since maybe 2018. Only other long term campaign was a three and a half year one through Curse of Strahd.
Yey! my fave caster class! just an fyi you are allowed to exceed your sorc points by 2 if you pick up the metamagic adept feat. appreciate the shoutout! haha! here's my own list of combos with certain metamagic: 1. careful spell + voice of authority-cast an aoe at your enemy and ally/pet/summon. the ally/pet/summon makes a reaction attack instead. 2. distant spell + conjure animals-conjure beasts high up in the air turning conjure animals into one of the best blast spells in the game. 3. empowered spell + chaos bolt-get another chance to let the chaos bolt jump to another target. 4. extend spell + aura of vitality-lots of out of combat healing for the party to get them back to full. 5. heightened spell + control spell of choice + bend luck/silvery barbs + unsettling words-ensure an enemy fails a critical save to a combat ending control spell such as polymorph, banishment, hold, etc... well until mid tier 3 and legendary resistance. just like what you said! great minds think alike! 6. quickened spell + a good non-spell action such as extra attack with dragon fear, emboldening bond, path to the grave, activating call lighting/telekinesis, etc-do multiple impactful things in the same turn. this is the best metamagic in the game and enables so many combos. 7. subtle spell + silence-walk up to the enemy caster and envelop them in silence while you cast spells. 8. twinned spell + good buff spell such as death ward, polymorph, haste, etc-this is why sorcs are one of the best, if not the best supports in the game. 9. seeking spell + hexblade's curse + scorching ray-not only does it help ensure scorching ray hits but it's another reroll so it allows you to crit fish again with hexblade's curse. *a note on seeking spell Chaos, i use this alot since i tend to stay away from save spells. this works great with the aforementioned scorching ray along with chromatic orb, booming blade, inflict wounds, etc. this is usually 1 of my 1st 2-3 picks of metamagic. very underrated. 10. transmuted spell + destructive wrath + lightning strike- this allows you to make non-lightning spells benefit from these abilities such as if you want to be the Flash with lightning ashardalon's stride knocking away each enemy you pass by. I'll post my subclass reactions in a separate comment. Good job with the vid Chaos!
@@ConstructedChaos yup! holy Cow indeed. i have a build based around that. it's called "Moo-teor Swarm" where i conjure drop cows on enemies from up high for massive falling dmg.. 8x then 16x then 24x... 😁
@@pockets8548 Could be. haha! When i played the build before though i was primarily a lore bard with a cow bell bardic focus who dipped divine sorc (which explains how he's part of the bloodline of a cow god). :)
Divine Soul Sorcerer with a one or 2 level cleric dip allow you gain so much more versatility. You can swap out all the tasty Cleric 1st level spells daily and just be judicious on the sorcerer spells you need that are severely Limited….. thankfully my DM gave me a list of “earned spells” at Sorcerer Level 1/3/5/7/9 just like aberrant mind & clockwork so my 1 level multi class in Twilight Cleric has made this guy so much more versatile and fun to play
Nice! That seems like a good setup from your DM and brings the Divine Soul back up to speed with the newer sorcerer subclasses! And the dip into cleric definitely seems like it'd be worthwhile.
2 года назад
your most powerful metamagic option had me. i had already failed the saving throw to resist its effects, but that was a great one!
One thing I would give to Sorcerers to give them a more thematic mage is similar to something I posted on your Warlock video, basically it's like the Transmuted Magic Metamagic ability except it doesn't cost a Sorcery Point but only lets the Sorcerer change the damage type of a Sorcerer Spell they cast to match a type associated with your Sorcerous Origin. For instance a Blue Draconic Sorcerer would be able to change their spells to be Electric, like Firebolt is the best Cantrip for Sorcerers to use but something that specializes in Electric magic would prefer to have a good long range Electric damage spell.
This would be nice and agreed. only thing i disagree with here is firebolt is the best cantrip for a sorc to use. Far from it. Here's 4 better ones: 1. minor illusion-create obscurement so you can attack at advantage while not be targeted by sight spells/have disadvantage to be attacked. 2. chill touch-1-4 less dmg but on a superior dmg type while also having 2 good situational riders. 3. ray of frost-same dmg but superior rider. this is what i'd use. slightly better dmg type too. 4. mind sliver-targets int save with the best rider and dmg type for 2-8 less dmg. if it's a sorc who wades into melee then this list expands with shocking grasp, booming blade and green flame blade. and then there's the utility cantrips in mold earth, mage hand and shape water. That's 10 cantrips i've named that are arguably better than firebolt. firebolt simply is a situational cantrip used to dmg objects.
@@TheRobversion1 Well Fire Bolt to me is kinda the best starting Damage Cantrip cause it has the longest range (120ft) and highest damage die (d10). Yes Chilling touch is also good and has a damage type that isn't resisted by most living creatures (Necrotic) and has the same range plus comes with a cool secondary effect, but it deals d8 damage which to me makes it 2nd place as a Sorcerer Damage Cantrip.
@@ChasoGod fair enough. i don't value having that much range in a cantrip (we dont really fight consistently that far out and i can always use movement to close in when something is further than 60 ft away) nor do i think an extra 1-4 dmg is worth giving up a rider on hence our difference on stance on firebolt.
human mark of making for fabrication, 2 lvls of warlock celestial for greater restoration, 5 lvls of sorc get 4th lvl feat for metamagic adept for the 2 sorc points. use fabricate turn 5 cubic feet of charcoal into diamond dust so you can cast greater restoration when ya need to. the rest of the build works as normal get 3 lvl in warlock for the moon book so you cant be put to sleep.
I made a Acid draconic black dragonborn sorrcerer and I argued to my dm that since Melf's minute meteors is on the sorcerer spell list and that since Melf's acid arrow is a sub par wizard spell and that there are hardly any acid spells for sorcerer or in general and he agreed and allowed me to use it and it was fun.
I'm waiting for update to the older sorcerer subclasses in this update later in 2024, with the rest of 5e. I'm pretty sure that once this happen, it'll feel more balance.
I think we’ll be getting overhauls on a lot of things!! I’m really looking forward to it and you can bet I’ll be making videos at breakneck speed when that happens haha!
This is a fairly niche use, but I bet quickened spell is really nice with a spell like witchbolt, where you can use your action to deal damage then your bonus action to throw out another spell
Very true! You just wouldn't be able to cast witchbolt initially in tandem with another spell. But, the subsequent actions to trigger damage work like you detail here!
The rules do not say you can only cast 1 leveled spell on a turn. You can cast a leveled spell with your action and your reaction on your turn, for example.
I had a character concept of a Sorcerer that doesn't have CHA as it's highest stat. The thing with Sorcerer, it's the only class that you don't actively pick to be. It's latent power, it happens to you, but it's not like a bard or a wizard that you go and learn stuff, it's not a warrior that you train to be, it's random happenstance. What if you're smart and reasonably charismatic, and your latent power erupts. You can do magic, but you don't quite know where it's coming from, so you go to a wizard-y school and become part wizard, but something just feels off. Like you know deep down it should come naturally, and not through a book of spells. Mechanically, it'd be a Sorcerer/wizard dual class, and every 4 levels when I can raise my attribute stat, pick CHA, representing myself becoming more confident in my powers and more outwardly engaging. The only thing that stops me from pulling the trigger on this concept is I don't know how hard it'd be to pull myself out of the hole of gimping myself with a lower primary stat, and not knowing how high I should take wizardry as I could lose out on some powerful high level sorcerer skills.
tbh you don't have to give up mechanical benefits to fulfill this RP goal. 1. Pick cha as your highest stat still. it's as you said it's latent. it's something that you're slowly discovering but the potential has always been there. like how some people can have force of will/command without really taking classes for it. 2. you don't have to multiclass wizard if you don't want to. you can be a pure sorc. you can easily represent levelling up in your sorc levels as you gaining a better understanding of your spellcasting potential through study. 3. being charismatic is represented by your cha and you can just increase int to a 10 or 12. take note in 5e, an intelligence of 8 is average intelligence unlike previous editions. an int of 10 already means you're smart. as a personal aside, when character building, i never compromise what the concept of my build is mechanically for these types of thematic/RP/character-driven choices. remember you can always re-flavor anything and find reasons within the class/build to associate to your RP concept. this way you get to have both. your character performs as expected mechanically while also being a representation of the thematic/flavor/RP concept you want it to have.
Rob has the right idea here and offers some great advice, as always! That said, if you're committed to your plan, you could also always talk to your DM about allowing you to use a different ability score for your powers!
The idea was to be sorta sh**. Not terrible, but like I said, being thrusted into being a sorcerer, you just might not have the natural talent. It's kind of funny that being charismatic means that you can can do magic, when its an inward reflection of your own power (not a pact with something else, or being a bard, etc).
@@spankyavalon I've heard some people argue that CON should be the sorcerer's casting stat but I think that causes some other problems since CON is already so useful.
@@ConstructedChaos it's not even a problem with the stat, but more i think the origin. All other classes can be thought of as a job. But Sorcerer is just something you ARE. The idea of a reluctant Sorcerer or a Sorcerer seeking to become greater, not just in spells and knowledge, but actual character development strikes a cord with me. The idea of seeking out wizards to learn more about themselves, the sense of self-discovery. The question of why does it come so easily to everyone else in the party?
You’re not wrong!! I still think access to the cleric spell list might be a better feature but it’s close! I plan on going more in depth on this and all the other subclasses as I make character build videos for them!
The Dungeon Dudes made a great video on homebrew expanded spell lists for the other sorcerer subclasses if your DM allows it. 🙂 That way you're not limited to picking just Aberrant Mind or Clockwork Soul.
This a scorcer/paladin I use in dnd Because it is fun Targaryen is a house of red dragons with shape change at will only to human form. They are powerful sorcerers/paladins. Those born into the house can shape change while not in the house can't shape change. One in every 10 targaryen is an avatar of tiamat and sorcerer wise is resistant to fire, acid, ice, poison, and lightning. The rest are red dragon sorcerer's. They have had a few great wyrms but most of them have a lot more Ancient and adult. House targaryen is allies with house bloodfallen and house siebert (Dragon 14/ conquest 6)
It's an extremely powerful class marred by it's lack of versatility. Too many people try to play a wizard through the sorcerer class because of 'background' potential. Via wizard I mean utility/versatile caster and background by 'never had to study'. In the hands of a player who knows exactly what they want to accomplice sorcerer is a power gamer's dream.
agreed with most points here though the sorc's versatility has been improving with the more recent subclasses. if you don't factor in ritual casting, technically the latest sorcs know more spells than other arcane casters. if the new UA sorc (lunar) is any indication of the direction, this is how they're planning sorcs to be moving forward. so yes they still wont be utility casters (that's the domain of wizards and bards) but they're making versatility now a part of the sorc subclass design. i agree that optimizers tend to use sorcs than wizards more. i'm one and while i still use wizards, i use sorcs alot more in a variety of builds.
I'm considering a Divine Soul Sorcerer my next campaign, if my DM is super nice and gives me a few more spells known as a homebrew. If not....I don't know. Its a powerful class but the lack of versatility can really hurt, especially if you don't have a Wizard in the group to pick up the slack.
Hey Chaos. Just wanted to share here that i found another way sorcs can gain extra spell slots/sorc points. we've already talked about trance-locking, divine-locking (this is my name for the cleric+sorc way of recovering spell slots/sorc points) and now we have catnap-locking! Here's how it works: requirements: level 5 sorc (to access catnap spell), level 5 warlock (level 3 if you pick aberrant mind as your sorc subclass but this would require aberrant 6). for the example here, i'm going to use the aberrant catnap-lock version: aberrant mind 6, any warlock 3 *DM allows you to take a 1 hour short rest* assumptions: you have 6 sorc points and 2 pact slots available 1. sorc converts their 6 sorc points into a 4th level slot. 2. sorc converts 2 level 2 pact slots into 4 sorc points. 3. sorc casts catnap (targeting himself and the party) using 3 sorc points due to psionic sorcery. you now have 1 sorc point before you catnap. 4. wake up with refreshed pact slots and 1 sorc point. convert those 2 level 2 pact slots into 4 sorc points. you now have 5. 5. sorc casts catnap using 3 sorc points. you now have 2 sorc points going into your 2nd catnap. 6. repeat #4 and #5 for 4 more times completing the 1 hr short rest. 7. don't convert your pact slots after you wake up from the last catnap. End result: you gain a 4th level slot along with your refreshed pact slots at the end of the short rest while not consuming any spell slots or sorc points. or if you have empty sorc points before the 1st catnap then you also refilled all your sorc points. bottomline, the 1 hr process nets you 6 sorc points in value whether that be in sorc points or spell slots (4th) with this level combination. the net gains in this process only increase when you gain higher level pact slots or more pact slots which may not be desirable if you want higher level sorc spells. cost of doing this: we had to dip warlock 3 to gain all the benefits associated with that but also lost 3 levels of sorc spell slot progression along with 3 sorc points. should i do this: only if you were planning to dip warlock anyway for whatever reason. this works best on an aberrant mind as any other sorc would require a heftier investment of 5 warlock levels which would really slow down your sorc progression and if you were going to level 20, preclude you from 9th level spells. bottomline: this is just a way to recover some of that lost sorc spell slot progression by dipping warlock.
Love the detail here! It certainly feels a little more clunky but very likely to be allowed at most tables and really just serves as a moderate boost to your character! Nice!
@@ConstructedChaos Maybe i explained it clunkily. i had it plotted out better on excel but i wanted to shorted the explanation here so as to not bore readers and just explain how it works and what are the end results along with the pros/cons. Yeah it's just a minor boost (just like giving your sorc an uncommon magic item) at the cost of a spell known and 3-5 levels of spell progression (which is notable which is why i recommended it only for those who were planning to dip warlocks in the 1st place). in fact, only a couple of my builds can use this (and i have tons of sorlocks) because i rarely go past 1-3 warlock dips unless the warlock is actually the main class of the build.
Extended Spell could be useful on a Divine Soul Sorcerer. Casting Aid and Death Ward before a long rest and using Extended Spell now gives you those spell slots back after the long rest and you still have 8 hours they''ll be active. Or cast Aura of Vitality and use Extended Spell, now your 1 minute of 2d6 healing (10x 2d6) becomes 2 minutes of healing (20x 2d6), thats more than a Life Cleric can heal! Works with Tiny Servant too if you take Clockwork Soul and you want a few minions to watch over your group while you take a long rest and still have them active for another 8 hours after that long rest is done.
I dont think it's just useful on a divine sorc but on any sorc depending on core tactics. summons and buff spells work well with extended spell. clock sorcs have aid, summon constuct too. aberrant minds have summon aberration. all sorcs have access to mage armor, control winds, summon draconic spirit, etc. Control winds in particular is a great build around spell/core tactic especially when combined with extend spell.
Here's my subclass reactions: 1. aberrant mind-not only does psionic sorcery do what you mentioned but this allows the aberrant mind the ability to cast the most number of 5th level spells in the game as they have a very favorable sorc point spell cost conversion rate as long as it's part of their psionic spells. For example you can easily trade 1 level 3 slot and 1 level 2 slot for a 5th level slot. 2. clockwork-great non-sorc spells to swap here include armor of agathys and tiny servant. restore balance is great against magic resistance. arguably the best class in the game before level 13. 3. divine-the divine sorc is agruably the best SG chassis funnily over the cleric which is the class known for using it. the bard may take over at latter levels due to magical secrets getting simulacrum at 14th but if simulacrum is banned, the divine sorc is the best SG user in the game. 4. draconic-bottom 2 sorc. not much to say here as it's a very meh subclass. 5. shadow-most people forget that you can summon multiple hounds of ill omen. the only limiter to this summon is the amount of sorc points you have. the hound of ill omen also can see in darkness/fog cloud/pyrotechnics. 6. storm sorc-worst sorc subclass. not much to say here either. 7. wild magic-one of my personal faves as well and is quite underrated as long as the DM always lets you surge. it's the best skill check spell (bigby;s hand/telekinesis) user in the game with magical guidance, tides of chaos and bend luck. very fun at the table and it's not like the chance to get a negative surge is very high (14%). you are more likely to get a positive or fluff effect. plus once you're at level 5, most people forget you can counter spell some of these negative surges such as fireballing yourself. *a note here is the strength of this class is not really on whether you roll good or bad surges. it's whether you get surges at all (and reset tides of chaos). if the DM lets you surge always, this is arguably a top 4 sorc subclass. if the DM never lets you surge, then this could be a bottom 2 sorc subclass. Anyway great discussion as usual Chaos! really enjoyed the shoutout! haha.
Thanks so much! I'm glad I got to include so much in this one since there aren't as many subclasses but I did notice that apparently trancelock doesn't work RAW since they're still required to use the full 8hrs for a long rest (including their 4hr trance)--so short resting during that time wouldn't be viable.
@@ConstructedChaos Hmm. I think you're looking at an older sage advice. here's the excerpt (mine bolded for emphasis): Q: Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? A: If an elf meditates during a long rest (as described in the Trance trait), the elf FINISHES THE REST after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed. This answer has been altered as a result of a tweak to the rules for a long rest, which appears in newer printings of the Player’s Handbook.
@@danielcolvin1611 Personally, i'd focus on the control aspect of SG and not the dmg. I'd also dip fathomlock 2-3 for tentacle of the deep and grasp of hadar/lance of lethargy and fighter 2 for action surge after level 5. here's a cliff notes, level 10 theorycraft of the build i played before with action flow: fighter 2, divine sorc 5, fathomlock 3 shadar-kai (for trancelocking but any elf is fine) 1st round: walk within 15-20 ft of the bbeg familiar: help action: SG action surge: grasp of lethargy the bbeg into the outer rim of SG bonus action: tentacle of the deep the bbeg bbeg takes entry dmg then their speed is halved. let's say they have a base speed of 40 ft. so 20 ft, then due to LOL, down to 10 ft. then, TOD, reduces it to 0 ft. All of this at no save so basically the bbeg will be stuck 15 ft away from you if they have 40 ft or less speed taking SG dmg until they die. if they have ranged attacks/spells: reaction: shield, absorb elements or counterspell as neeeded 2nd round onwards: familiar: help bonus action: tentacle of the deep action: lance of lethargy let me know if you have questions or what you think.
@@ConstructedChaos oh well, I've been waiting for something like it for a LONG time (especially with my love of the Moon), but I've had a HUGE plan mapped out for something like it and now that it's here, I can't wait to do it and let people see my chatacter as i have them planned out
Small clarification Thunder step and other teleport spells have a range of "self" so don't technically work with distand spell Edit: i was wrong, thinking of misty step
I know its probably irrelevant to the video, but I am amused you picked a picture of Jace for your thumbnail, if anyone in MTG was an Int-caster, it would be Jace the Mind Mage. Sick art tho.
Here's a fun little 7 level multiclass 5 levels of Sorcerer with transmuted spell and Fireball 2 levels of tempest domain cleric Since you don't have any 4th level spells, but do have 4th level spell slots, just upcast your fireball You now deal 56 thunder damage to everything in a 20ft radius, or 28 if the lucky bastard succeeds their saving throw (assuming they don't have evasion)
this is done better the other way around and with a different spell. You are dealing 56 dmg once. Go with a sorc 2, tempest 6 (level 8 though). Pick up metamagic adept quicken spell. 4th level call lightning is the spell of choice. Now you can: Bonus action: quicken 4th level call lightning. Destructive wrath if they fail. Action: lightning strike. Destructive wrath if they fail. That's 80 dmg on round you execute it. 100 if its a cloudy/stormy day. But here's the bonus. You spend a 4th level slot on fireball and you're done. Here on round 2 onwards you can: Bonus action: spiritual weapon or quicken a spell Action: lightning strike for 4d10. Granted fireball has a bigger area than call lightning but call lightning is sustainable. Plus if i'm using destructive wrath, i'd rather kill the bbeg than waste it on minions who arent really a threat.
I get the idea, the reason I went with fireball instead of call lightning is that the channel divinity only works on one roll, but I still think going majority sorcerer is still better for this combo because of what happens at higher levels, because clerics don't really get any further lightning or thunder spells to really use this on, sorcerers get plenty of spells to transmute into lightning for a big single round damage hit, like meteor strike (in the very late game), turning those 20d6 fire damage into straight 120 thunder damage Clerics simply don't get those heavy hitting single turn spells
@@MrGunsnrosesfan100 take note any reason to pick fireball outside of aoe size is the same reasoning for call lightning. destructive wrath is indeed one dmg rolling instance and you do this the same way with call lightning as with fireball. i do agree that majority sorc is better for this combo but as you said with your reasoning- at higher levels. i'm just saying early on it's better to pump the cleric levels 1st. lets say we extrapolate this to level 20. you'd go 18 sorc, 2 cleric but only have 1 instance to destructive wrath or 14-6 if you want 2. i'd go 14 sorc, 6 cleric or 12-8 as well. so if you want 2 instances like i do to generate more dmg we'd end up in the same place. it's just a more optimized levelling order. though tbh in my own build of this i added 2 levels of fighter for action surge (at level 9-10) to take this further so i ended up with fighter 2, sorc 12, cleric 6. now for the meteor swarm comparison. lets say you transmute meteor swarm you'll get 120 lightning + 20d6 bludgeoning (70 average) for 190 dmg average on a 9th slot. a 9th level call lightning will do 90 dmg 2x so that's 180, about the same as meteor swarm. it will beat it on stormy/cloudy day at 200. plus on subsequent rounds, you still get to do 9d10 (40.5 average). now here's the kicker. with the fighter 2 dip, i can action surge and add another 9d10 to the additional dmg an now end up doing 220.5 on average (250.5 on a stormy/cloudy day). if your dm gives you an amulet of the devout (uncommon item so its fair to ask for) then this can be pushed further to 270 dmg (300 on a stormy/cloudy day). so clerics do have those high end single-target spells. you just have to look deeper beyond the base version (upcasting, synergies with other abilities such as metamagic/action surge), etc).
“Our spellcaster will likely be somewhat adept at social encounters as well” My Changeling Aberrant Mind Sorcerer: “Somewhat adept”? Am I a joke to you?
I have a changeling Divine Soul Sorcerer/Celestial Warlock (LE). He's my dark healer that made a pact with a Deathpact Angel (Orzhov Guild from Ravnica). He's played as an aasimar Priest that worships her Matron. I've made a few warlocks/sorcerer characters and some of them discovered there sorcerer bloodline through the radiation of magic provided by their patron.
As a guy who's OCD at single class builds there are a few multi class builds I'd try--all of which have Sorcerer in it. 16/10/16/10/14/20 as a level 2 Tempest Cleric & level 18 Electromancer (Pyromancer with changed damage type) Sorcerer
Ohhh that sounds fun! I love the idea of a lightning-themed character like that. I know there are subclasses built around it but I always feel like fire gets all the attention as a destructive spell type caster.
I just realized the Storm Sorcerer with a Cleric friend could be the most disgusting front-liner. Storm Sorcerer with the Warlock Initiate feat to get Armor of Agathys, who has Fire Shield from the Sorcerer spell list, and Storm's Fury at 14 means that you can, depending on the slots used for Armor of Agathys, deal upwords of 50+ damage to a melee attacker per hit. But being fragile, getting Warding Bond from your Cleric could effectively double your effective HP. Then you run around on the front line using AoE thunder and lightning spells, damaging everyone around you with each cast, and punishing anyone who attacks you. And both of you still have your concentration free. That would be a really fun, chaotic team dynamic.
I like where your head is at here! This was more or less my thought on the multiclass potential there. Might not be the most effective build in the game but I'd say it's plenty viable and sounds really fun!
i think you should check Chaos's abjurer who makes this concept more effective. the storm sorc really doesnt. i have my own clock sorc also in the comments there who makes this concept effective (pushing 65+ dmg). nothing you mentioned here from the storm sorc cant be easily replicated with other sorcs. damaging alot of enemies around you can easily be duplicated with alot of spells or even cantrips as the dmg is mediocre. storm's fury is essentially a weaker hellish rebuke that an be easily gotten with 1 level dip with warlock (which would allow you to cast armor of agathys multiple times, 1 time via magic initiate isn't enough). bottomline, the storm sorc really is bad subclass though can still be used to create good builds as you're still a sorc. the warding bond from an ally is a nice touch though for team synergy though doable solo as well if you decide to burn your concen on stoneskin or allot your action to blade ward.
@@ConstructedChaos it was essentially a worse version of your abjurer. personally if i were to optimize a storm sorc i'd go in a different direction. storm's fury is gotten too late to build around and is essentially a weaker version of a 1st level spell.
There are so many comments that don't understand spellcasting and counterspell. What gives away that someone is casting a spell is not just the hand movement or speaking but the magic being channeled through the body and flying out and is still counterspellable Can your DM treat you with kiddie gloves/fudge things in your favor yes but subtle doesn't stop counterspell at base
I'm not sure if this is an official ruling but it's always been my understanding that counterspell requires you to see someone casting and subtle spell gets around that restriction.
@ConstructedChaos and subtle has nothing that hides the magic being drawn in or sent out and there are so many others signs of magic that are more than enough to know that a spell is being cast and counterspellable subtles raw and intended use is for hands full or bound prisoner moments (For example Raven of teen titans stiil has the black aura so while it would hide the azarath metaton zinthos and her extended hands it wouldn't hide her eyes glowing, or the energy streaking towards them which is more than enough evidence to counterspell)
It’s weird Bard spells are not available to switch in the Sorcerer spell list. Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard, Bards, and arguably Artificers are arcane spell casters according to Forgotten Realms lore. Correct me if I’m wrong on this. Also weird the Shadow and Fey Touched feats exclude Bard Spells.
Been trying to find an in-person game but in the mean time been making characters of each class, so I could fill any role when I can get a game. I ended up making a Kobold Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer using the Multiverse of Monsters ruling and the point-buy system to min-max Cha, Con, and Dex. I was planning on him being a Black Dragon and using the Transmuted Spell to do some interesting things like changing Fireball into Acidball to work off the lvl 6 ability. He was also going to play most a sneaky thief-like character rather than a scholarly one. I think I was looking at doing Hexblade with him but I won't be trying to do 'that' combo. It is turning out really good.
Nice!! I kinda feel like Hexblade might not be exactly right for a kobold draconic sorcerer anyway. Although, I guess it depends on how you're hoping they function in combat. Are they mostly casting from the back of the party? Or are they rushing in, blade in hand, after softening up the enemy with an acid ball?
@@vajona2495 how does specific beats general apply here? And NOT gaining exhaustion is certainly a benefit of taking a long rest 😉 Anyway, I already mentioned in the video that this sort of thing doesn’t fly at most tables. At that point, the semantics of the rules and my reading comprehensions hardly matter.
@@ConstructedChaos ... Really? You believe PHB: 7 “Specific Beats General" does not apply here?... XGTE: 78 "Going without a long rest" is general and XGTE: 56 "Aspect of the Moon" is specific. Maybe re-read the section "Specific Beats General" and try to understand it more. If "Specific Beats General" didn't exist than no specific rule could bend or break any of the general rules. Or saying it another way: if your logic is applied in the same manner to every other rule in the book, all class/race/background specific rules are null and void because the general rules supersede them. Furthermore, Imagine giving a class feature then nullifying that feature in the same book. And yes "NOT gaining exhaustion is certainly a benefit of taking a long rest"; thus, with "aspect of the moon" you cannot get a level of exhaustion because aspect of the moon states you only gain the benefits of a long rest without actually taking a long rest "PHB: 186 general rule" . Anyway, this isn't a debate. The truth is never a debate; rather it is our current reality whether you can accept it or not. And you might be right that this doesn't fly at most of the tables you sit at. I don't play with the illiterate. Saying all of this, my original comment wasn't directed at you. /shrug
@@ConstructedChaos ... Really? You believe PHB: 7 “Specific Beats General" does not apply here?... XGTE: 78 "Going without a long rest" is general and XGTE: 56 "Aspect of the Moon" is specific. Maybe re-read the section "Specific Beats General" and try to understand it more. If "Specific Beats General" didn't exist than no specific rule could bend or break any of the general rules. Or saying it another way: if your logic is applied in the same manner to every other rule in the book, all class/race/background specific rules are null and void because the general rules supersede them. Furthermore, Imagine giving a class feature then nullifying that feature in the same book.
Subtle spell has a lesser known effect that can be a game changer. Since counterspell requires you to see someone casting a spell to counter it and subtle spell removes all visible and audible components from the spell.
In this same vein, greater invisibility is low-key one of the best combat spells in the game. We had an enemy caster use it to move around their lair casting spells that couldn't easily be countered with advantage, while nimbly dodging all our attacks at disadvantage.
I'm having a lot of fun in a campaign playing as a Warforged Clockwork Soul Sorcerer /Celestial Patron Warlock. No shenanigans messing with the long rest short rest mechanics. I've just had a lot of fun having access to 2 spell lists and the metamagic (and I recently got the Meta Magic Adept Feat for more sorcery points and more metamagic options.
Good on ya! Something I didn't mention in the video was that just taking short rests to regain spell slots and turn them into sorcery points is definitely allowed RAW and at most tables. Plus it stays far enough away from the realm of overpowered that makes some sessions unfun.
@@ConstructedChaos the trancelocking you mentioned is also RAW. i dont consider those shenanigans/exploits as it's just players working with abilities. i think the word shenanigans is thrown around too often that it loses it's meaning (doing something trying to break the game). the bag of holding bomb is a shenanigan. combining abilities for a good effect like this is not.
@@TheRobversion1 and apparently the new elven races in MOTM reinforce that trance allows them to finish long rest in 4 hours as that fact was previously contested.
@@ConstructedChaos yeah i actually reacted to your comment elsewhere that this wasnt even MOM. there was already a sage advice previously on it. the person just knew it from MOM because they probably didn't read the sage advice. this has been RAW since like years ago. here's the sage advice: Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? If an elf meditates during a long rest (as described in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed. i do understand the confusion though and hopefully MOM being the latest published content to invoke this puts doubts to rest. and yes this applies to ALL elves.
Hey Alex, I've got a notion to play a Hill Dwarf Draconic Bloodline sorcerer somewhere down the road!! I might even take the Tough feat at level 4 for even more HP because I'll be damned if my character is ever described as being "squishy"!! Thoughts? LMAO
The tough feat is a good pick for sure and your hill dwarf is already bolstering your hp! Do you find yourself on the frontlines as your sorcerer often?
@@deantitus9734 Fair enough! There's nothing wrong with a little extra durability so I'd say go for it. I've even built melee sorcerers in the past using the Stone Sorcery UA!
Thanks, love the sorcerer class but I do wish that they had a little more then metamagic. Bards and warlocks have a few other things to make them stand out.
I can understand that desire. I do wish we could at least go back to all the old subclasses and give them expanded spell lists like the Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul has. That alone would go a long way. That said, I find that sorcerers are pretty similar to wizards in that they rely most on their spells for their "stand out" features so I don't think they're missing much!
Also, for extra spells. I cast Suggestion: Build a Background. Add 2 spells each at levels 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th. Make the spells thematically appropriate to the Background for flavor.
@@ConstructedChaos To be fair, a lot of people don't think about it. I ran a Greed Dragon Bloodline Sorcerer once who used it rather often. The DM didn't realize how big a deal that combo is until I counterspelled his wizard and he couldn't counterspell back cause he couldn't see that it was cast in the first place. Honestly, makes any other troubles with sorcerers worth it just for that. At least for me.
I mean, this is one of a few ways to do it that I mention in the video but it relies on both warlock and sorcerer mechanics working together. Additionally, it only requires a level or two in warlock to come online.
@@ConstructedChaos but it just shows that the best sorcerer build is a sorcerer/warlock build. Not a sorcerer build, to me it just moreso proves how things like Twin/Quicken are the only thing keeping Sorc up with other classes. I assume you disagree, but that's just my perspective.
@@ConstructedChaos I'll admit, sorcerer is the only class I've never actually played, but it's because of the absolutely anemic number of actual class features they have, combine with some really high level requirements for the back end of it's subclasses for seemingly no reason. Like what's up with the gap of 6, 14, 18?
RAW - at 10th level Genie Warlock you get Sanctuary Vessel. You can Short Rest in 10 minutes and stay in the vessel for 8 hours. Have a familiar carry you around while you Short Rest 48 times on the way to the Boss. 48 5th level spell Slots. Or over 200 sorcery points. 1. Comes online late 2. You could only do 10 levels in Sorc. and 3. I don't think any DM would actually allow it. But fun to think about.
RAW you can't consecutive short rest more than 7x. once you reach 8 hours, the game considers it a long rest. of course this is a minor convenience. just break up your 7th and 8th short rest. coffeelocking or cocainelocking are typically banned indeed. trancelocking however is commonly allowed.
Also, not sure where you got 20 hours in the genie bottle from. Bottled Respite states you stay in there a number of hours 2x your proficiency bonus, which at lvl 10 is 4, so thats 8 hours. Sanctuary Vessel to my knowledge doesn't extend the time. But you could spend 8 hours in there, finish a long rest then re-use it because it comes back after a long rest. But ya not sure where the 20 hours came from, did you think it was 2x your Warlock level?
@@Dave004 yeah this confused me as well. sanctuary vessel doesn't extend that duration indeed. he can't take a long rest inside the sanctuary vessel as that would defeat the purpose of what he's doing (creating tons of spells slots and max sorc points) as all those reset when he takes a long rest. I think his RAW is from a different phb. haha.
Taking one level of Draconic Sorcerer and one level of Barbarian lets you have an unarmored AC of 13 + Dex bonus + Con bonus. If you have a 16 and a 14 (either way around), that's 18 AC naked at level 2. It only takes a one-level dip into either class, so you can keep leveling as either one easily.
take note this doesn't work. anything that sets your armor class (monk, barb, mage armor, draconic sorc, etc) to anything than the default way of how it works, the rules say you can only choose 1.
@@TheRobversion1 What rule? I've never read that anywhere. The PHB says you can only choose 1 Unarmored Defense feature, but Mage Armor and Draconic Sorcerer are not classified as that.
@@jameshill2450 iirc it was in tasha's or xanathars. either way though here's the official sage advice excerpt and you can read further by checking it out on sage advice or googling JC's tweets about it: How do you calculate a creature’s Armor Class (AC)? Chapter 1 of the Player’s Handbook (p. 14) describes how to determine AC, yet AC calculations generate questions frequently. That fact isn’t too surprising, given the number of ways the game gives you to change your AC! Here are some ways to calculate your base AC: Unarmored: 10 + your Dexterity modifier. Armored: Use the AC entry for the armor you’re wearing (see PH, 145). For example, in leather armor, you calculate your AC as 11 + your Dexterity modifier, and in chain mail, your AC is simply 16. Unarmored Defense (Barbarian): 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Constitution modifier. Unarmored Defense (Monk): 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Wisdom modifier. Draconic Resilience (Sorcerer): 13 + your Dexterity modifier. Natural Armor: 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your natural armor bonus. This is a calculation method typically used only by monsters and NPCs, although it is also relevant to a druid or another character who assumes a form that has natural armor. These methods-along with any others that give you a formula for calculating your AC-are mutually exclusive; you can benefit from only one at a time. If you have access to more than one, you pick which one to use. For example, if you’re a sorcerer/monk, you can use either Unarmored Defense or Draconic Resilience, not both. Similarly, a druid/barbarian who transforms into a beast form that has natural armor can use either the beast’s natural armor or Unarmored Defense (you aren’t considered to be wearing armor with natural armor).
Yep! I was just about to chime in about that. However, I like how flavorful this idea is! And, I think some DMs would definitely let this fly in games. I probably would unless it became too much of an issue. After all, Tortles get a static 17 at level 1 so I can’t imagine this breaking anything!
@@TheRobversion1 Fair enough, I don't get to play tabletop much so I don't have either of those books. The idea came from Solasta, because there's a dragon-themed barbarian subclass I wanted to combine with draconic sorcerer. The full bonus works in that, and there's even a feat to add your Charisma to AC that stacks to get over 20.
This is a hot take in that most people disagree - but I truly do think that Sorcerers can become a bit broken, especially if playing custom lineage/v human to pick up Metamagic Adept at level 1, or of course by Sorlocking at the right table. By Tier 2, Clockwork Soul has an *incredible* spell list, Aberrant Mind has nearly free Subtle Spell and some incredible options to use it, and Divine Soul can long cast Aid and Mage armor with extended spell, roll around with Spirit Guardians, twin cast healing word, twin cast Command, etc. Or if really nasty, can have spirit guardians up, walk up to 2+ enemies, quicken spell green flame blade with a rapier, then hit them with twinned Toll the dead. Three Sorc points and no spell slots used and if all hit, that’s 6d8+3d8+8+4d12…which is pretty damn good when you realize you still have many spell slots left to throw fireballs and whatnot later on.
The ones that disagree probably have a wizard mindset or arent' optimizers. Sorcs are a top 3 class in the game along with bards and wizards. they can be indeed broken with coffeelocking which is why it's banned at most tables. they can also do the superhero changing room (glyph of warding + extradimensional space + buff spells) with a clockword sorc 5 dipping genielock 1 or picking up demiplane in a high level campaign. trancelocking should be allowed at most tables. i haven't seen one that has disallowed it. the coffeelocking for infinite spell slots though is commonly banned. clockwork sorc has the best spell list in the game until level 13 which is why they are arguably the best class in the game in tier 1-2. wizards and bards only pull ahead at level 13 due to simulacrum and forcecage. clockwork sorc has aid too so it's not just the divine sorc who has it and can extend it. aberrant minds not only get that subtle spell but that lower cost spell casting. i didn't get the mage armor part here as that's a base sorc spell. extending mage armor/aid isn't really needed as it has a long enough duration, especially if you rest trick (which is RAW as per JC).
Totally agreeabout sorcerers getting just too good as its power crept in the newer books. It was always supposed to be (as I understand it) a very focused and specialised innate spellcaster, themed on how it got that innate power. With clockwork and aberrant mind (and it goes even further with lunar magic) they have now been given incredible versatility as well, which is crazy really. (Love sorcerers BTW in their theme and style of play, dislike how overwhelmingly good pure casters are and they get better with each book)
@@jiminkpen9750 Nice to see you here Jim. Hope you still remember me. anyway yeah agreed on the current direction of WOTC opening up the versatility of sorcerers with the recent subclasses which is really bonkers for the class. I'm glad that because of it the whole "wizards are the best" meta has been overturned a bit. agreed as well on how casters just keep getting better. i do wish wotc would just release a book containing options just for martials that casters can't use (like how 4E had maneuvers for different weapon types).
I love the flavor but I haven't had a chance to look at it since it is technically non-core. If it follows most of the other CR stuff, it's probably more OP than most other subclasses in the game haha.
I'm currently converting the warlock over to function as a normal spell caster like the sorcerer. I suspect as they go away from short rests that this will be necessary.
@@DungeonsNDreadnoughts i suspect that too but they'll have to find a way to separate the design space of warlocks from wizards, bards and sorcs as that's 4 full arcane casters now with 3 of them cha-based.
@@ConstructedChaos personally, i'd love for them to bring the psionic system back from 3.5: power points (similar to the spell points system in the DMG). i'd like for the warlock to take the sorc's place as an arcane caster using spell slots while sorcs and monks move to the power/spell point system. i think this will make it interesting as it'll be tougher to multiclass certain casting classes.
I never seen anyone talking about the least played but most OP class in the game: the dungeon master. Almost any party would welcome one, even if they have one already.
Building a dex sourcer with dex as your high attribute and con as your second is how you max out subtle spell. Naturally you use all your stat increases on cha but there's no reason to believe that the barbarian does not have powerful magic items. Your hidden and your not doing anything to disrupt your stealth that way. Animate object can see for itself.
you dont really need to main dex. just make it your 2nd highest so you still cast spells well. it's quite easy to pump stealth with proficiency, skill expert feat (or a multiclass) for expertise. magical guidance also allows you to reroll failed stealth checks. going wild magic means you can also tides of chaos for advantage and bend luck as a reaction for a 1d4 bonus if you need to. pick up lucky as well for another reroll if you need it.
@@TheRobversion1 And worse what to do about a backstory.I pickpocketed a hag and now any daughters will stay beautiful for an unreasonably long time eventually becoming hags
Not a huge gripe but it doesn't say you can only cast one leveled spell a turn. Only that if you cast a spell as a bonus action the only action you can use is a cantrip. This also lrevents reaction spell uses like counterspell or shield. This is why action surge/wizard is so prevalent since it can get around this issue
@@ConstructedChaos no worries its not a big deal just something that caught my attention. I just now saw someone else mentioned it as well. Love your vids man :) very informative 👍
It's not one level spell a turn. It's you can't cast a leveled spell as and action and bonus In a turn.this means you can. Counters spell a counter spell. And more importantly action surge. Allows you to cast to leveled spells in a turn
So, watched the broken warlock video. Now RU-vid is suggesting all these other "broken" videos. But, if every class is broken as indicated by all these videos than is anything broken?
That’s exactly the idea of this series! I’m making these guides to prove that every class CAN be broken while also providing a solid foundation of the mechanics and features for new players!
“Wizards are versatile and have… Blah blah blah” Sorcerers don’t need to have a magic book and we have access to fireball. Plus we have a slightly bigger hit die. I know which one I choose and it isn’t wizard
i would also choose sorcs. the versatility of wizards is overrated for combat. what matters in in dnd combat is power. if you have a spell that applies to most situations (like wall of force, telekinesis, bigby's hand, etc) it doesn't matter that you know alot of spells as you'll be using the same powerful spells in each combat. at least before level 13: clock sorcs can cast all the good spells wizards can (even some that wizards can't such as aid, armor of agathys, greater restoration) and casts it better (metamagic). where wizards (and bards at 14) pull ahead power wise is level 13 and thats because of forcecage and simulacrum. so if a campaign isn't spending alot of levels at 13+, sorcs are simply better than wizards. and of course, if you're considering utility out of combat then wizards are ahead regardless of level unless the sorc picks up the ritual caster feat.
im pretty sure quickened spell only effects the casting time and not when you can trigger it. except maybe do witch bolt and deal the activation damage on the same turn you cast it
Right! You may have misunderstood what I was saying here. I was saying that you could use your action to retrigger witch bolt from a prior turn while also casting another action spell as a bonus action with quickened spell.
@@ConstructedChaos now the only issue is does the fighters action surge give you an additonal bonus action or not and you grab eldrich blast and just become a turret
@@pockets8548 as chaos said it's an additional action. with witch bolt you can pretty much do this: bonus action: quicken witch bolt action: auto-hit witch bolt action surge: auto-hit witch bolt I'd consider that a waste though as witch bolt has bad scaling. this tactic is done better with a different spell such as call lightning as you can quicken call lightning then action lightning strike and action surge lightning strike.
Stop the BS! By RAW it specifically says you have a limit of spells slots and sorcery point dependent on level. Sure you can create "additional sorcery points", mainly by using them and then converting slots to "additional sorcery points", but the Specific limits apply. By RAW, Specific overrules general. The coffeelock is a myth, unless you have a ignorant or weak DM.
@@bartvance8805 I mean, it literally says you “create” spell slots under the font of magic feature that allows this to happen. RAW it is literally possible but I did also mention that this isn’t allowed at most tables. You aren’t just refilling empty slots, you’re creating new ones.
@@ConstructedChaos Again general vs. specific. Sure you "create" but by RAW you have a maximum set of slots and SPs. No way around it. At no point does the Metamagic say you can exceed either limit. You are inferring that and vs. specific, inference loses every time. I don't know what your not getting about the SPECIFIC rule of max slots and SPs?
@@bartvance8805 You have it backwards. The more specific ruling is the creation of spell slots via the font of magic feature. You may be confused because you're looking at metamagic. This is not a feature of metamagic.
What are your thoughts on the unearthed arcana Sea Sorcery origin? I'm currently playing a sea sorcerer and I really like it! Especially when I can rp turning into a little wave to move or avoid damage
I don't think he abused anything and simply talked about mechanics synergies if you're talking about trancelocking. take notes during a devs podcast discussion on trance in MOM and font of sorcery, this is explained to be intended as sorcerers were meant to be always capable of having the right spell slot for the job (regardless if you multiclassed for pact slots or not) as a way to differentiate them from other casters. if wizards are meant to have the right spell for the job, sorcerers are all about casting spells better and having the right slots. now if you're talking about coffee/cocainelocking then yes those arent intended. even without those, sorcs are a top 3 class in the game simply by virtue of being a full arcane caster with metamagic, con save prof, magical guidance and good subclass abilities (well except for the storm sorc).
I did also make sure to cover some of the ridiculous things you can do with a sorcerers metamagic in general, as well as some of the fantastic subclass options you can choose from!
Sorcerer is not broken though Sorcerors get a smaller list of known spells which becomes tedious with higher levels. You cannot prepare spells like wizards and clerics. The meta magic options are nice and Tashas known spells per subclass are helpful. My favorite meta magic are careful spell, heightened, and now transmuted
I think you're new here. No worries Chaos will eventually come on and explain what the whole "broken" stuff is. My fave metamagic are quicken spell, seeking spell and subtle spell.
This video is part of a series of guides wherein I touch on the most powerful features of each class in an effort to remove the stigma surrounding certain character options being "unplayable". That said, I do honestly believe that some parts of these classes can be--or at least can feel--broken at times. Being able to generate infinite spell slots may be banned at most tables but it is RAW and it is undeniably potent.
Honestly the only thing Sorcerers have over the other full casters is Flavor and metamagic neither of which really make up for how weak they feel compared to the other casters..
highly disagree. you probably dont know how to optimize sorcs. the clock sorc is considered the best class in the game in tier 1-2 (only to be overtaken by wizards and subsequently bards by level 13+). i think you are underrating how good metamagic is, especially how quickened spell is used in a lot of combos. there's also magical guidance (making wild sorcs the best skill check spell user in the game such as counterspell, dispel magic, bigby's hand, telekinesis). clock and aberrant mind sorcs have the most spells known among the arcane casters (clerics and druids with extra spell lists beat them by 3 spells known/prepared). in terms of spell access, clock sorcs have the best spell list in the game at tier 1-2 with access to all the best wizard spells plus some which wizards don't have access to such as aid, armor of agathys and greater restoration. font of sorcery also allows sorcs to just keep using their best spells in every combat by having the right spell level available like a clock sorc who can just use wall of force in every combat. i do agree there's alot of flavor there.
Could you do one about blood hunters? I know they aren't exactly an official class, but one of my players would like to play as one. They're new to the game so I told them I'd help them play their character but I realized I really don't konw much about what's a "good" way to play this class. Thank you in advance if you ever read this!
Of course!! I try to do one per month and I’ve done 6 so far. I usually do a poll to gauge community interest and I’ll add Blood Hunter to the next one!
@@ConstructedChaos I've been talking with my DM so I decided on Twilight Cleric custom origin with the metamagic feat because subtle spell was one thing I wanted. It gives me some of what I wanted from shadow sorc.
@@TheRobversion1 whoops! That’s what I get for trying to respond to too many comments too fast haha. I don’t think you can go wrong with either but it may also depend on what levels your campaign takes place in and what you want to do with your character.
I houserule that it's only possible to take 3 short rests during an adventuring day. Chain short rests are neither forbidden nor allowed in raw, but I opt for deciding that it's not intended. Imo, heightened spell is worth it more often then people give it credit for. If you use a single target save or suck with a 50% chance of succes, this metamagic will double the chance of it working. On first level spells this is not worth it, and on 2nd level spells it might still be better to just twin it, but whenever you are casting a third level spell it higher in combat, heightened is as strong as twinned. People just don't realise it. There is no restriction on the "1 spell per turn", but rather 'no action spell after a bonus action spell'. It is possible to action spell action surge spell and reaction spell all in the same turn, so 3 spells in a turn is possible.
if you want to know the RAI, the devs have come out and said that the intention is 1 short rest per 2 combats. it's not 2 short rests per day. there's no max or minimum in the intention. the reason why it's 2 short rests for 8 combats in the DMG is because the intention encounters wise is there's 2 easy, 2 medium, 2 hard and 2 deadly combats. the 1 short rest per 2 combats intention is for hard and deadly combats. easy or medium combats are designed not to use the party's resources or just a small amount of it (for medium). the issue is, DMs and players alike at tables don't want to use easy or even medium combats anymore and the devs have received that feedback. everyone wants combats that are at least moderately challenging (hard). that's why they had to clarify that it's 1 short rest per 2 combats. moreover, if you look at the design choice in MOM, everything that comes back on a short rest is changed to prof bonus times per day to reflect their intent (short rest abilities need more uses). what they've observed is alot of tables are looking at the DMG and thinking its 2 short rests per 8 hard/deadly combats that most tables are scaling it down to perhaps 1 short rest per 4 hard/deadly combats. this shouldn't be the case. there should be another short rest in there to recharge the abilities of short rest classes such as warlocks. another thing they expressed is alot of DM are just counting combats as encounters. they said people are forgetting that social or exploration challenges that are difficult will expend resources (such as bardic inspiration) and those challenges should be counted when deciding when it's appropriate to give a short rest. at my own table, my DM or I (when i run) typically do 4 encounters. 2-3 are deadly+ combat and 1-2 is exploration/social. we typically get 2 short rests. if we had 3 combats it's often like a short rest in between each combat. and its appropriate imo as each combat is deadly at minimum. while no short rest is given in between a social/exploration challenge and a combat. agreed on heightened spell with a caveat. i understand why people are down on it though. save or suck spells tend to suck further the higher you go up in tiers. tier 2 brings magic resistance. tier 3 brings legendary resistance and a big jump in monsters save scaling (lots of monsters are huge and this has a very big effect save scaling wise especially for con saves). this tends to hard shutdown these types of spells that it becomes more optimal to use no save spells like wall of force, spell attacks like scorching ray or skill check spells like telekinesis. all 3 of which heightened spell is useless with. while quicken or twinned still apply. even 4 spells in a turn is possible with contingency.
@@TheRobversion1 I haven't had anyone pushing the issue yet, but I say 3 in order to be a bit generous. I rarely do 4+ encounters, and I think I have never done more than 3 combat encounters (they will just refuse to continue adventuring when they feel like they aren't near max strength anymore). Right now they have the hardest adventuring day yet (it's one of the "plot thickens" moments towards their end goal), so I had 2 social interactions planned 1 easy 1 medium, 2 deadly combats and a hard combat. They are done with the deadly combats, and after a short rest they could take out the hard combat but I think that they will try to long rest. They also semi skipped the medium conversation encounter.
@@Olav_Hansen yeah i think 3 is generous if you have 2 deadly combats and a hard combat along with 2 easy social challenges. 2 would've been fair at that point but yeah even i as a DM err on the side of generous. the issue with other dms is they dont know how to properly design harder encounters so they resort to putting their party through a gauntlet of challenges without any rests just to drain their resources to create tension for the hard fight of the day as the party is depleted when they get to the hard fight. a good dm would know how to challenge the party fully rested and would be able to challenge the party in other ways outside of combat or even mixing other elements in combat such as environmental/trap/puzzle challenges. so props to you as a DM for diversifying your challenges and being fair with the short rests!
@@ANDELE3025 i think this doesnt matter much if you want to parse the RAI of it. Its really just about making sure short resta abilities/classes dont get screwed over by DMs who are stingy with rests. Coming off a long rest with 4 hard+ encounters scheduled you could: 1 combat 1 social/exploration Short rest 1 combat Short rest 1 combat Long rest The above sequence fulfills the RAI.
They sure would, yes! As per usual, I was only covering the class features here and I don’t account for synergy with various feats, backgrounds, and other character options. I tend to save all that for specific build videos!
he puts polls in the community chat and does whichever the community votes for. however for this most recent poll, Chaos has excluded all casters just to mess with the community. i would've indeed voted for a bard or cleric vid next.
@@ConstructedChaos looking forward to the rogue one as i'm currently playing a phantom rogue right now in a short campaign. we started at level 10 and ending at 16 so definitely will be sharing that and my review of the performance on your rogue vid. having alot of fun on it currently. i'm forced to RP and think about my skills more as i have no spells outside of booming blade. lol. my first time to play a non-caster build.
@@ConstructedChaos so far it's fun if the DM allows you to purchase "replenishing" bag of rats. the level 9 ability of creating soul trinkets every time you kill something is just the key to the class. my DM is cool enough to always allow us to buy uncommon/common items (within magical item alignment limit of course) so getting that hat of vermin or bag of tricks is great for replenishing my soul trinket count when i need to which allows for a bunch of stuff i can just keep on doing like: 1. wails of the grave 2. perma-advantage on con saves 3. playing like kitty pryde (ghost-walking) I'm literally doing a kitty pryde themed character now (dm has allowed me to reflavor my owl as a pseudo-dragon) and there's this strong bbeg who keeps hunting me in the campaign (who our party can't beat yet so we just figure out ways to run away/trap him as he's a very tanky character with an anti-magic field that moves with him) that can break through walls and is nigh invulnerable. His name is Cain and calls me a bitch. I'm sure you get the reference. 😅
